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Everything posted by CV75

  1. You have gotten a number of replies -- what remains your most important question about 1 Nephi 8, or more broadly, about Lehi's and Nephi's visions of the tree of life?
  2. Both. The geographical location of each individual person's inheritance will be based on what they will be asked to do during the Millennium. So, for example, there will be some from the tribe of Judah with inheritances in Israel, and some living elsewhere. Eventually the entire earth will come together into one land mass again, and all the covenant people will be resurrected members of the Church of the Firstborn -- kind of a post-inheritance inheritance.
  3. I think provident, self-reliant living, and giving to the Church and relying upon "it" (more accurately, the Lord) are aspects of abiding in the companionship of the Holy Ghost.
  4. I find the difference is that the earth and the dust thereof are not in a carnal state (Mosiah 4: 2) and align with the Lord’s will for them. He uses the dust to create us (Mosiah 2:25-26), and then gives us our agency to do what we will while we are connected with it (D&C 93:33), though it continues to belong to Him. Hence the great sin in our misuse of the dust of the earth concerning our own bodies, those of others, our material stewardships, and all other physical matters that are found in this second estate.
  5. "What is it about men and their agency that so consistently leads them to act in this manner...?" They are simply less intelligent than Christ, the only one who would not act in this manner. "...what are the likely benefits of that particular design feature?" We are designed to progress, from whatever level of intelligence from which we begin, through the merits of Christ. I like the phrase in verse 22, "among all these there were many of the noble and great ones" because it indicates that not all the noble and great ones had yet arrived at this level of goodness to rule but would yet arrive in due course.
  6. I use Abraham 3:19 as a key to several questions arising from this description of "the children of men." 19 And the Lord said unto me: These two facts do exist, that there are two spirits, one being more intelligent than the other; there shall be another more intelligent than they; I am the Lord thy God, I am amore intelligent than they all. Th children of God have no design flaws. They are designed to progress to godhood and exaltation, as described in the rest of that chapter. Agency is a factor, but once in this mortal life, on this side of the veil, none have the requisite intelligence to act any better, the only exception is Christ. And through His Atonement, we can repent and choose to progress as originally designed. The rest of Helaman describes the Lord's power, and leads us to the thought in verses 23 and 24: 23 Therefore, blessed are they who will repent and hearken unto the voice of the Lord their God; for these are they that shall be saved. 24 And may God grant, in his great fulness, that men might be brought unto repentance and good works, that they might be restored unto grace for agrace, according to their works. This is the fulfillment of the underlying design, the Lord's will, but yes, we can choose otherwise.
  7. Yes, it is always a matter of semantics, and of the "kinds" of faith and doubt, and on what "kinds" of spiritual and intellectual points... and it is not uncommon for people to vacillate between which kind is more important for any number of reasons.
  8. You can have faith in some points and have doubts in others, but faith and doubt are distinct subjective, conscious experiences that cannot be combined. E.g., you cannot simultaneously have faith in baptism as an ordinance of the Gospel and doubt it as an ordinance.
  9. That is different than blended qualia.
  10. No, but I do think God can judge the strength of one's faith, and we can assess the growth in our own.
  11. It depends. Degree ("particle" or "great") has nothing to do with whether it exists or not. A particle of faith in one thing might be insufficient or sufficient to overcome doubt in another thing (and vice-versa). But faith and doubt cannot share blended qualia, so the one experiencing these alternating forces in the decision-making mental state will vacillate until he acts. Alma 32 speaks of applying faith to attain knowledge of specific things, which are innumerable.
  12. My take on "heal relationships and foster understanding" refers to things the Church is doing that shows we have equal regard for all God's children (e.g., equal protection under the law as it stands today) and higher regard for God and His covenants, including marriage as we practice it. We can support some things that protect people who are LGBTQ -- the same protections all God's children should have (commerce, housing, employment, etc. as in the Utah Compromise) -- and have a religion to support which all God's children have a right to agree with (or not), but in any case, protect as much a fundamental right as the other things (commerce, housing, employment, etc.).
  13. I would discuss the concern with your Bishop.
  14. !!! I was just reading in Amos 9: 3 And though they ahide themselves in the top of Carmel, I will search and take them out thence; and though they be hid from my sight in the bottom of the sea, thence will I command the serpent, and he shall bite them:
  15. If “created” means “organized” and “day” refers to a period of time, there was a day in the first estate and a day in the second estate, and, to paraphrase Alma 40:8, “…all [are not created] at once, and this mattereth not; all is as one day with God, and time only is measured unto men.” So, when we are organized at any stage along the plan of salvation, and according to our personal development, we receive knowledge from God (this is progress). We may have a Veil over some of it, but we have it. One key point in which we, as the human, were given knowledge was when Adam and Eve were organized as a couple and given commandments; before that, when Adam was organized in the flesh and given commandments. Before that, they were organized as part of God's family of spirit children, and Adam had knowledge to fulfill his role in the war in heaven. All the children of God follow this pattern or organization and receiving knowledge.
  16. I think the formal pattern of prayer that is set for the Restored Church in dispensation of the fulness of times) (which reflects the pattern set by Jesus) is understandably "crisper" than a desperate sinner or those, having the Spirit instructing them on what to say and how to say it in the physical presence of He who is already speaking and interacting with them directly.
  17. The others are not recording having seen the premortal Christ's mortal frame -- two estates, the premortal and mortal --at once. This is quite a feat, but from the Lord's standpoint is not impossible since He can comprehend past, present and future at once. The brother of Jared confessed that he didn't even know that the Lord had flesh and blood at all (verse 8). No other account described God's body as Jared had comprehended it. So, the form seen in these other instances is of a man, but the material makeup is indeterminate except for the brother of Jared's account. Jesus explains that He typically presents in spirit form (verses 16-17), and it is exceptional that any man should "see" his flesh and blood (verse 9). This is another way that the brother of Jared saw the Lord as no one else had up to that time, in addition to what @laronius shared.
  18. Just those prior to Jared's, which would seem to have taken place slightly before Abraham's lifetime (or perhaps slightly overlapping his early life.
  19. Ether 3: 9 And the Lord said unto him: Because of thy faith thou hast seen that I shall take upon me aflesh and blood; and never has man come before me with bsuch exceeding faith as thou hast; for were it not so ye could not have seen my finger. Sawest thou more than this? Do you have some examples of others with the faith to see the premortal Christ's mortal frame? This goes beyond quickening, translation and other interactions with the premortal Christ.
  20. Lots of semantics are possible here. A couple of options: In what way did all mankind become a lost and fallen people through Adam and Eve's transgression/fall? They were born into mortality (physical separation from God), and as they grew to accountability, their pre-mortal spiritual development being less than Christ (Abraham 3:19), became separated spiritually. Moses 5:11 allows that the transgression was necessary (and inevitable): Adam and Eve could not resolve their dilemma (per Abraham 3:19: only Christ could reconcile the commandments through His Atoning work), yet their wisdom and spiritual capacity was greater than the devil's, enabling them to weigh the dilemma, make an imperfect choice, and repent. Transgression also means change, as in changing or replacing the law required for one sphere into another and changing spheres accordingly: they replaced the law of paradise (not partaking of the fruit/immortality) with the telestial law (to multiply and replenish the earth/knowledge) so that a celestial law (eternal life and continuation of the seed) might be attained.
  21. JST, Exodus 34:1–2 Joseph Smith Translation 1 And the Lord said unto Moses, Hew thee two other tables of stone, like unto the first, and I will write upon them also, the words of the law [Ten Commandments, etc. but not the priesthood performances; which I take to be on a par with the temple covenants], according as they were written at the first on the tables which thou brakest; but it shall not be according to the first, for I will take away the priesthood out of their midst; therefore my holy order, and the ordinances thereof, shall not go before them; for my presence shall not go up in their midst, lest I destroy them. 2 But I will give unto them the law as at the first, but it shall be after the law of a carnal commandment; for I have sworn in my wrath, that they shall not enter into my presence, into my rest, in the days of their pilgrimage. Therefore do as I have commanded thee, and be ready in the morning, and come up in the morning unto mount Sinai, and present thyself there to me, in the top of the mount. --- Despite this establishment of the order of the Israelite church under the Aaronic Priesthood, the Melchizedek Priesthood and its performances were evidently held by select holy men among other groups (e.g., Moses' father-in-law, who returned to his own people), and I presume they shared higher ordinances with select saints as permitted. Lehi for example held the higher priesthood (and see Alma 13 for others).
  22. See: Lesson 55: Exodus 33–34 ( "...the children of Israel at this time were not given the ordinances and covenants of the Melchizedek Priesthood (which are necessary for us to become like God and dwell in His presence), the Lord allowed the Aaronic Priesthood to continue with them (see D&C 84:25–26)" with "the preparatory gospel, which includes the principles of obedience and sacrifice. This law came to be known as the law of Moses. The preparatory gospel administered through the Aaronic Priesthood—meaning “the gospel of repentance and of baptism” (D&C 84:27)—also continued with the children of Israel." So, it would seem the content of the two sets differed in that the second set excluded the ordinances and covenants of the Melchizedek Priesthood. Everything else would have been the same.
  23. This rest, I believe, is one of the miracles alluded to in the other thread, a byproduct of being yoked with the Lord. Rest, describe as peace and relief in the midst of vexing problems, is the condition of being grounded and settled despite the turmoil around us: Colossians 1: 23, "...continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven..." and Ephesians 3: 17-19, "...Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God." We often discuss the imagery of yokes in terms of how they benefit animals, and one of these benefits is that it grounds and settles the weaker animal of the pair or gives it the rest (stability) it needs to continue the labors demanded of it.
  24. Are you referring to his Sunday morning closing remarks? Overcome the World and Find Rest ( The miracles to which he refers seem to be the "incomparable privileges" from his reaffirmation of Ezra Taft Benson's teachings: "I reaffirm a profound teaching of President Ezra Taft Benson: “Men and women who turn their lives over to God will discover that He can make a lot more out of their lives than they can. He will deepen their joys, expand their vision, quicken their minds, … lift their spirits, multiply their blessings, increase their opportunities, comfort their souls, raise up friends, and pour out peace.” "These incomparable privileges follow those who seek the support of heaven to help them overcome this world. To this end, I extend to members of the entire Church the same charge I gave to our young adults last May. I urged them then—and I plead with you now—to take charge of your own testimony of Jesus Christ and His gospel. Work for it. Nurture it so that it will grow. Feed it truth. Don’t pollute it with false philosophies of unbelieving men and women. As you make the continual strengthening of your testimony of Jesus Christ your highest priority, watch for miracles to happen in your life." He alluded to these privileges in the start of his talk, "But, my dear brothers and sisters, so many wonderful things are ahead. In coming days, we will see the greatest manifestations of the Savior’s power that the world has ever seen. Between now and the time He returns “with power and great glory,”1 He will bestow countless privileges, blessings, and miracles upon the faithful." He also prefaced his reaffirmation of President Benson's reaching: "Now, how does overcoming the world bless our lives? The answer is clear: entering into a covenant relationship with God binds us to Him in a way that makes everything about life easier. Please do not misunderstand me: I did not say that making covenants makes life easy. In fact, expect opposition, because the adversary does not want you to discover the power of Jesus Christ. But yoking yourself with the Savior means you have access to His strength and redeeming power." The miracles seem to be focusing on the results of yoking ourselves with the Lord and accessing His strength and redeeming power to bring about those things listed by President Benson: "make a lot more out of their lives than they can ...deepen their joys, expand their vision, quicken their minds, … lift their spirits, multiply their blessings, increase their opportunities, comfort their souls, raise up friends, and pour out peace.” Miracles, or the expression of faith in yoking ourselves with the Lord, will be opposed by the adversary.
  25. Maybe it's me, but the choir numbers sounded peppier and brisker, which I like.