SilentOne reacted to Just_A_Guy in Full and complete lesson on modesty?
Yes! The core of modesty—even under the expansive definition that goes beyond mere sex—has to do with us participating in behavior that we know will elicit a particular reaction from others.
In all fairness, I think we should recognize that the male’s reaction to visual stimuli is the result of thousands of years of social conditioning and (if you believe that sort of thing) tens of thousands of years of human evolution. A glib “teach men not to look!” is facile and probably not realistic; especially considering the staggeringly high proportion of modern western males who regularly indulge in pornography.
(That doesn’t mean men should stop trying to improve themselves, obviously. But it does mean that as Christians who are all trying to help each other along, we should have a realistic view of what sorts of behaviors tend to undermine our brothers’—or sisters’—progress; and make a conscientious effort to avoid those behaviors where reasonably possible.)
SilentOne reacted to estradling75 in Encouraging Temple recommend renewals?
I do not have any additional insights to why members might choose to not renew recommend...
However I do have a really really good reason for those that are questioning why they should have a recommend if they can't use it.
Learning/relearning/reinforcing humility. God gives command we are under covenant to obey the commands. There is no only if I understand/agree with it exception clause. One the biggest acts of Faith is following a command we do not understand/agree with.
Yes it can absolutely suck to be asked to take things on Faith, but that is exactly the test of this life... And as a test it is understandable that we struggle with it, it wouldn't be a test otherwise
SilentOne reacted to NeedleinA in Encouraging Temple recommend renewals?
I won't pretend to speak for other stakes elsewhere, but I know for our stake presidency/leadership the concern is thankfully pastoral in nature.
We all are very open about the fact that numbers/stats are only small tools/indicators to help get us to the real goals BUT they are not the goals. In this case: temple attendance, saving ordinances, service to those who have passed on and ultimately exaltation are the real focus.
We can't get to step 2 (the temple) without step 1 (recommend). If we can't get to step 2 (covid), we can at least strive for step 1 in the meantime.
It reminds me of stories where members of the Church in eastern block countries, post WW2, would save their tithing in jars, etc. even though they had no one to give it to. They saved it up in the hopes that someday they could actually turn it in. While they were limited in their ability, they still did the best they could at that particular time in those particular circumstances.
SilentOne reacted to Manners Matter in Encouraging Temple recommend renewals?
One other thought re: encouragement - Acknowledge that there are legit reasons for not attending the temple (ie health - which is not always visible, shared; distance, etc) but having a current recommend is an indication of your willingness even though circumstances may prevent it.
Also, share quote/s about keeping it current and point out this is one way to 'follow the prophet'/'if by my own voice or voice of my servant it is the same'.
SilentOne reacted to estradling75 in Humanity's options?
The word dependency can be used in few different ways. @mikbone correctly pointed out that we are always dependent on oxygen, water, physics, etc. but that is usually not what we mean when we say an infant is dependent, but an adult is independent. In that case we mean that the person can acquire/fulfill their dependency(in the first sense) without help.
For example infants should be independently acquiring oxygen from the very beginning or there is serious problem, but they will not be independently acquiring water or food until they older. Thus we consider infants and children dependent in a way that adult are not. Thus we could say that independence is the ablity to acquiring ones dependency from the surrounding environment. The environment has to be there.
But there is more then just dependence and independence. There is also interdependence. If you have to spend all day gathering/hunting food you are not going to get much else done. So you work with others, you trust others, you depend on others and they depend on you. That gets us families and villages and nations.
The Gospel is the same, God creates the environment that we all depend on. We are then expected/required to act within that sphere (agency) and form Families, churches, Zion (interdependence)
It also works on a very personal level. God supports our very existence, every breath we take (dependency). He wants us to come to him (independent). And to covenant with him (interdependent)
SilentOne reacted to estradling75 in Benefits of marrying for time only in the temple?
A thought of my own triggered by yours... A lot of us think that Zion is going to be a place that we find and join.. in which case strange, and alien it might be... But I do not think our task is going to be to find and join Zion... I think it is going to be/is to Build Zion which requires a much more active mindset then just looking for.
SilentOne reacted to JohnsonJones in President Nelson vaccinated
HIPAA does NOT preclude this, as that is a violation of the First Amendment.
IT PRECLUDES healthcare and other entities covered under 45 CFR § 164.512 from disclosing your health information to other entities as described in 45 CFR § 164.512 in whole or in part.
Relavant CFR link for those interested in reading through it.
There are many things that are prevented from disclosure by HIPAA, and one could say in those instances it is stopping Freedom of Speech, but it is done in the interest to protect one's right to privacy and the government from unwarranted intrusion into your own privacy and property (your health in many ways could also be considered property in a weird sort of way I suppose).
However, you will not be prosecuted for disclosing your own health information, nor will you be prosecuted (unless you are a specific entity as defined by the above that has limitations on such, such as a healthcare worker, employee, or other figure with the ability to see health information or conditions of others or a related arena) from telling others about or for asking about someone else's health.
People cannot be prosecuted for asking about if someone has been sick, someone is in the hospital, or other such actions in general. If this were so there would be so many people violating the law regularly (imagine a Church meeting, the Bishop finds out that someone may be sick from the Elder's Quorum president, the Bishop inquires about it from the family itself and finds they are sick and ask the Relief Society president to send meals over to them...if HIPAA made asking or talking about others who are sick or injured all those leaders would just have broken the LAW...and it would be a regular occurrence in the Wards around the US!!!).
Now, just because they ask does NOT MEAN you have to answer. In fact, they cannot force you to give a vaccination status, but they ARE allowed to fire you for reason (or in some states, if they just feel like it as long as it does not pertain to a protected status such as race, religion or other item covered under the law). Whether they would be allowed to fire you for not disclosing a health condition is normally one of the protected arenas, but as this normally deals MORE with disability rather than vaccination, it could be seen more as a murky area. Precedent would indicate that they CAN preclude you from entering the premises or even employment for refusal of certain health treatments (certain vaccinations have had legal challenge in the past and in certain industries, vaccinations can be required though normally those industries in the past will give those vaccinations themselves to the incoming parties if no proof of vaccination is given, and an employee cannot be FORCED to disclose their own medical information in this way, though refusal of proof or to be vaccinated can be grounds not to employ that individual). It has not been applied large scale recently in the way that Covid-19 Vaccinations could be though. IN addition, schools are one entity that ARE allowed specifically to be allowed to require proof of vaccinations among a few others.
If the current trend of those who are against being vaccinated vs. businesses who have an interest in seeing employees vaccinated continue, it may lead to legal cases which will resolve the issue more clearly in the future, though if we look at precedents of the past I would be inclined to lean toward the idea that businesses will be able to use refusal to be vaccinated in a public healthcare crises as ground to get rid of an employee. However, as one could also argue that it is not an item which would absolutely preclude someone from being able to do the work, it should not be a factor that is included in the consideration of terminating an employee, it should not be considered a valid reason for termination.
So, while they can ask, they cannot "require" that you give them the information (in that you always have the right to refuse and not disclose your personal health information).
For those who don't want to wade through the legalize, this is a decent summary.
HIPAA regulations summary from hhs
SilentOne reacted to JohnsonJones in Queer sister speaks at 2021 BYU Women's Conference
AS it is a minor, I suppose it depends on the major that the individual works on.
If they go on to Legal studies, there is probably a small but significant portion of legal work they can be involved in where such a minor may be a boon.
If they go into sociology or Psychology there are also small, but significant communities where such a minor may be useful in their impact in relating and helping others.
As a minor it is probably not the worst choice among others in how it is applicable, dependent of course, on what one's major is.
That holds true for most minors though.
SilentOne reacted to mirkwood in President Nelson vaccinated
HIPPA only applies to healthcare workers disclosing medical information. An employer can ask without it being a HIPPA violation. I also believe an employer can compel you to get and/or show proof of vaccination. I also think there is a bill being worked on now to prevent that from being legal.
SilentOne reacted to estradling75 in Is there room for the terrestrial Kingdom?
I think it would be a mistake to separate God's Love.. From God's Commandments. They are not separate things... God's Commandments are an expression of God's Love. God loves us so much that he wants what is best for us.. which is for us to return to him.
God's love for us is like the love of a Good Parent has for their child. They love them when they are infants, and totally dependent. They love them when they are trying to be obey, they love them when they are defiant, and they even love them when they are self destructing. The love of a Good Parent does not change, it can be mixed with Joy or Sadness depending on the choices of the Child.
However too many people think that the Love of God will trump our agency... But this is a fallacy...The judgements of God are not based on what God chooses on what God love's... but on what we choose... on what we Love... on what we become. And becoming is what the Commandments are all about.
SilentOne reacted to Carborendum in Is there room for the terrestrial Kingdom?
Here's how I see it. It's a question of unmet potential. Ever heard of the masterpieces that are never written because a potential Beethoven or Bach or Mozart never learned music?
All of us have an upper level of where our original nature can take us. But if we strive for anything less, that is what our eternal nature will end up being. What we strive for in life will dictate what we may accomplish spiritually. And what we accomplish spiritually will dictate what we will feel comfortable with (which Kingdom) in eternity.
There is therefore the sorrow over lost potential, regardless of what we eventually feel comfortable with.
SilentOne reacted to Carborendum in President Nelson vaccinated
Vaccine or not vaccine. Gene therapy and not gene therapy.
When I grew up there was a clear distinction between "immigrate" & "emmigrate". There was a difference between "further" and "farther". But today, there are no distinctions between them. Such semantic shift happens quite easily with a combination of near homonyms and widespread ignorance.
With technology, it isn't due to widespread ignorance, but because of rapid technological advancement. Sometimes society comes up with new things so fast that are the result of multiple parties all pursuing the same technology in different ways that no one is really calling dibs on naming it. So they just use the same name as something that is about 95% the same thing and elicits the exact same reponse as a vaccine. So why the problem with calling it a vaccine.
SilentOne reacted to NeuroTypical in Queer sister speaks at 2021 BYU Women's Conference
"I'm not that good of a husband, but I'm trying."
"I'm an alcoholic, 35 years sober next month."
Brigham Young: "I will say, there is not a man in this house who has a more indomitable and unyielding temper than myself. But there is not a man in the world who cannot overcome his passion, if he will struggle earnestly to do so."
Random girl: "I'm queer, but I'm doing my best to be a good disciple of Christ."
You sure she's that different?
SilentOne reacted to dprh in President Nelson vaccinated
This confuses me. Wouldn't the prophets counsel at least lead to reconsidering your decision? Honestly, it seems to me that most members who are deciding not to get the vaccine did this. They didn't like the CDC/WHO/etc guidelines and the government mandates. They made up their minds to fight against those, and that choice can now be in conflict with following church leaders. I'm not saying this is every case or even any of them, but it's the impression I get from most.
I can fully get behind this. The vaccine isn't the only thing we can to do reduce the spread.
SilentOne reacted to JohnsonJones in President Nelson vaccinated
When Noah was commanded to build an Ark, most of the rest of the world appears not to have been commanded. He DID warn them and probably asked them to do certain things. Instead they mocked him.
When the Israelites were hit by a plague of Snakes, Moses built a bronze snake that those who looked at it would live. It was an easy thing, but many mocked him.
When Joseph F. Smith stopped Polygamy in the Church, it was not with the word, command, but otherwise for the Manifesto says...
Does this mean we are under no demand to refrain from Polygamy?
It was given to great mockery of him and other Church leaders at the time and a schism occurred which has many of those who are called Members as different sects to this day.
At the time Wilford Woodruff gave it there were many who did not undertake this advice and continued as they were. Even under Joseph F. Smith this continued for awhile.
In our modern time we have been asked to have food storage. Many have not followed this advice, and indeed many have not suffered for NOT following the advice of the church...but does that mean we should disregard it?
More recently, the Family Proclamation says
Once again, it does not say we are commanded. Many do take the words of warning and requests seriously though.
Most recently, the Prophet, Russell M. Nelson stated...
In this, it actually is stronger than an urge, request, or even simply asking. It is a statement.
The question is, do we follow the prophet.
Once again, the above item is NOT a question, it is NOT a simple maybe, it is a statement from the Prophet regarding when our temples will be reopened. We have been blessed thus far and hopefully will continue to be blessed, but what happens when many Saints blatantly encourage others to NOT follow the Prophet?
I am following that advice which is why I am here asking people to actually LISTEN and FOLLOW what he has asked us. I'm not saying you need to immediately go out and get vaccinated if personally you have gotten told not to, but the discussion should NOT BE how or why one should disregard the statement from our last conference, but HOW WE CAN FOLLOW this advice to do all we can to bring the COVID numbers down in our areas and reopen the temples.
Some may already have their temples open full time as they were before the pandemic, but most do not. The non-concern with getting the temples back to full operating norms and doing what we can to get there is concerning.
If you feel that this is a matter of prayer for confirmation, I can understand that, but ONLY if you have not persecuted others who have had questions in the past and called them all sorts of names when they faced similar issues with the Church. Those who have asked for others to be banned due to not following the religion of worshiping the Conservative party politics of the United States have NO PLACE to now contest the statements of the prophet and argue against them. Ironically (not all, but a majority) of those who are now fighting against the words of the prophet are the same ones who have asked for posts to be deleted, others to be banned, and showed no sympathy to those who had difficulties in the past. It is a double standard that has caused this forum over the past year or two to become more of a FAR RIGHT conservative talking forum rather than one that discusses the facets of the Church, and even now is promoting a far right veiwpoint over that of following the words of our prophet from the last conference.
This should be of concern, because this is NOT a complex issue. We are discussing the words of the Prophet from the last conference. Why should I need to be on the defensive to support his statements or talk about them on a forum which is supposedly here for members to discuss this type of thing simply because it is not a popular thing among the far right? (and to be clear, it is a far right issue, as I do not think most members actually have problems with what the Prophet has asked us to try to do, even those who are conservative. Most WANT the temples to reopen, and if we have to do everything in our power to reduce the Covid Numbers, than that's what I think most are trying to do these days).
SilentOne reacted to Anddenex in Beware your “Mormon Therapist”
While attending BYU I was really shocked with how many members were willing to indulge is boderline methodologies. One of which was sticking a kid in a sleeping bag, causing the kid pain (either by sticking an elbow in his chest (pressing as hard as you can), or something that would cause physical pain), and then when the kid is at the moment of despair and hurt they open the sleeping bag and then immediately give the kid to his parents. This was mainly for kids who were adopted. The concept -- the sleeping bag represented the uterus -- and thus birth, when the sleeping bag or bag was opened.
It was the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard, and yet it was considered a logical and rational practice. So, yes, just because they are members does not mean they will be inline with gospel principles. I could go on, just from BYU, and it amazed me. Rather than strengthening testimony therapists would be depleting it.
With that said, are their good, really good, therapists. Yes. One of my single ward bishopric members was a therapist and a successful one in Utah. I asked him about his practice and why he thought it was successful. He said, "The main principle/practice I have stems from the Book of Mormon, and that is why it helps people."
SilentOne reacted to Jane_Doe in Beware your “Mormon Therapist”
A therapist exists to help you go where you want to go (and are willing to put the effort into thus). You want one that respects your values/beliefs, even if they themselves don't share it.
A lot of the time therapy does involve approaching a problem from a different angle. There are plenty of time where that problem can be influenced by religious belief, and the new different angle is still within religious orthodoxy..
SilentOne reacted to Carborendum in CDC - "Racism is a serious public health threat"
I think you're barking up the wrong tree here. I don't think anyone here says that racism has no impact on the Black Community, which has the potential to affect black people's health.
The point here is that the CDC is about COMMUNICABLE DISEASES.
Since its inception, the CDC has been about these definitions. But now it is going to be used as a tool for social engineering.
If you want to defend someone from a racist or sexist who is doing them harm or engaging in criminal behavior against someone else, then I'm right there with you. I'll march right along side you.
But take the "racist" out of it and ask if you'd do anything different. For me? No, nothing different. Wrong is wrong no matter who is doing it or to whom it is being done to. Wrong is wrong. The "hate crime" to me makes no sense. Anyone who does something criminal to another person either hates them (for whatever reason) or is so self-absorbed that they don't even think about the other person.
So, why is it any different when the motive is "racism"? Why aren't we trying to protect crime-ridden areas no matter what race? If there is a crime-ridden white area (and believe me there are many around here) why aren't we doing more outreach to that area? Why doesn't that area get a "public health" flag on them?
We have interesting ward boundaries. There are two wealthy areas sandwiching several separate slums. We minister to several families in that area. It isn't easy. They don't have it easy. But they're all white. So, the government doesn't care about them.
SilentOne reacted to NeuroTypical in President Nelson vaccinated
I agree. My perspective may be a bit different on what our "own business" is, or it may not. I figure last year, with the unknowns, and the lack of vaccine, our "own business" included what other people were putting on their faces, because we're all trying to live life as part of a society. Now, with most of the unknowns gone, and a free vaccine for anyone who wants one, our "own business" basically returns back to pre-covid stewardships.
In other words, back when the life of your grandma in a nursing home was at risk, impacted by the whims of the surrounding population and the positive test rate, I was supportive of public health orders and whatnot. To an arguable extent, her life was in the hands of strangers. Now that Grandma can chose to get a shot or not, the choice is hers again. Time to end the mandatory this-and-that, and the govt should return to it's appropriate role of making good information available, including the urgings and opinions of experts in the field, and leave the rest of us alone.
I no longer give a crap about positive test results and trends. My opinion on things now is based on death rates and trends, and my loud advocating opinion is based on my own county's numbers - which are about as close to 0 as can be:
SilentOne reacted to JohnsonJones in President Nelson vaccinated
I'm not trying to shame anyone, but I DO think that we should not be trying to tear down the words of the prophet, First Presidency, or the Apostles so blatantly.
I can understand your concerns, and if that is what you feel is right, and you have counseled with you doctor, then you must do what you feel is right personally. However, there are those who are trying to persuade others not to get the vaccination against the advice of the General Authorities who lead the Church, and I'm not comfortable with that.
Logical discussion of fears or otherwise I think is okay (as you have done, and makes an interesting discussion, because, you know...you are right. It is an emergency thing, though with as many shots as have been given out it's gotten far more testing done than almost any other vaccine before public release at this point...but we still don't know if there are long term side effects that could be caused by it), but blatantly just saying not to because one just doesn't agree with it, or thinks it's a flu, or other ideas is trying to find a way around the words of the Leadership of the Church and disagree with them. I read enough of it on facebook with people calling the leadership false and many other items that seeing it here does not make me feel any confidence in what is happening with many of the membership at large right now.
A prime example is President Nelson's statement in the Last Conference. It should not be...how can we avoid various measures to bring down COVID-19, but WHAT ARE WE DOING to bring the numbers down?
Are we simply going about normal life and hoping it goes away, or are we actively trying to get the numbers to a point where the temples can be open to all members with temple recommends as they used to be before the pandemic?
I think that's the difference. Instead of making excuses of why we cannot do anything to follow the prophet's advice, instead perhaps talk about what WE are doing actively to follow those words he delivered. One does not necessarily have to be vaccinated, but if they are not, what else are they doing to actually follow his counsel and open the temples back up full time to all worthy members?
SilentOne reacted to scottyg in President Nelson vaccinated
Look folks, it doesn't matter which side of the fence you fall on. Government is corrupt, period. I do not see how anyone can be a true student of the scriptures and think otherwise. "Government" will be on opposite side of the Lord and His servants when He comes, and He is coming. Prophecy after prophecy has been fulfilled...there really aren't that many left before the time of the second coming.
I appreciated many of Donald Trump's policies, but he is in no way a stalwart example of a good and just man, and not the kind of person you want to be a role model. Much of his crooked past is known, and much is not. You cannot stay in business as long as he has without doing some shady deals behind the scenes. That being said, it is harder to stay in politics for a long time without getting your hands dirty than any business I know of. Joe Biden is an evil man, and those who are working with him are slimier and more poisonous than any serpent. Put your trust in them, and you will fall.
Fauci knows no more about this virus than any other physician. He is not in his position because he is better or smarter than others. He is not the only one who gets data on studies being done. He just has a bigger platform with government leaders choosing to take his advice over that of others. Medical professionals are all learning at the same time, and can move the goalposts whenever and wherever they want to fit various narratives. They are people too, and can have agendas too. The vast majority of doctors care about their patients first and foremost. But there is no reason to believe that all are void of corruption. I work in healthcare and know two who work up at the university that are just in the profession for the money and notoriety gained from research...they have told me so themselves, and aren't ashamed of it. Trust in the Lord and His Prophet...not some cooks who claim to be the gods of medicine and social behavior in our country today. "If we are to have any hope of sifting through the myriad of voices and the philosophies of men that attack truth, we must learn to receive revelation. ...in coming days, it will not be possible to survive spiritually without the guiding, directing, comforting, and constant influence of the Holy Ghost."
If the church strongly urges something, then it must be important, so take the time and effort to pray about it with real intent. If the answer you receive is no, then it is no, and if it is yes, then it is yes. Stop being so sensitive because someone gets a different answer than you. The church doesn't tell everyone to get it because they know that the answer will be different for everyone; and that is between you and the Lord. For many (if not most) getting the shot will likely be the proper course of action, and that's okay. But if someone you know doesn't get it, and you disagree with their decision, you have no reason or foundation to cast stones.
SilentOne reacted to NeuroTypical in President Nelson vaccinated
Clarification: The "trial for guinea pigs" phases for COVID vaccines made by Moderna, Pfizer, Johnson and Johnson, Astra Zeneca, and any other in current use, is largely complete. It started way last year. I started my trial vaccines back in August 2020. @Emmanuel Goldstein seemed to be unaware of the fact that all of these vaccines had already successfully completed phase I, II, and III trials. He seems to be under the mistaken belief that the public vaccination effort underway on planet earth right now, is being run with untested, unapproved, trial vaccines, and everyone who gets the vaccine is a guinea pig. He's wrong.
When Carb, (or any other member of the general public) goes and gets the vaccine, they give you a card, and maybe an appointment for a second dose. That's it for you, and any other member of the general public. No blood work, no ongoing questionnaires, no physicals.
When I got the vaccine last August, as a phase III trial volunteer, I signed up for a 5 year study where I fill out questionnaires every other week, get a physical with blood draws every couple months. All that jargle is only for people who join a study.
SilentOne reacted to dprh in President Nelson vaccinated
I can't speak for everyone, but I can control what I'll do. What my leaders (ecclesiastical) have asked me to do. Socially distance, mask up, and get vaccinated.
We'll see if it comes to that. No point in playing the "What if" game.
I don't think most in the gov't are looking for power for power's sake. I think they want to get back to 'normal.' as safely as possible.
SilentOne reacted to JohnsonJones in President Nelson vaccinated
We should study and pray about it, I'm not saying we should not. I would also post the statement from the Church
Church Leaders Covid 19 Vaccine
Talking to your doctor is not a bad thing, and advisable. My doctor has a BIG sign in their office trying to get people to be vaccinated.
And once again, in case people missed it just above here...the statement again...this time bolded parts for those who didn't catch it the first time...
Of interest, this is a pretty strong statement from the First Presidency...
Most of you probably do not remember Polio, or you have strange ideas of it. In truth, the numbers killed each year were FAR less than how many have died from Covid--19. We are looking at probably less than 10K, and probably less than 5K a year.
For parents though, it was a constant fear.
They came out with various ways to vaccinate (including the famous sugar cubes).
There was a HUGE push to get it out and given to people, there were also discouraging stories. I don't know if they were true, but one of the most discouraging was that there had been a mistake with the vaccine and it was actually giving kids polio instead of vaccinating them. This supposedly was quickly corrected, but it was a scary thought.
Despite that, they got people to take it. It is NOT 100% effective in protecting against Polio, but it is enough that herd immunity was established and for the most part Polio has been wiped out from being a childhood disease everyone needs to fear.
This has applied to many of the childhood diseases that used to terrorize parents and families. Children today do not have to fear dying as easily as the diseases that used to ravage our homes have largely been voided by vaccinations.
UNFORTUNATELY, many anti-vaxxers today are resurrecting these diseases. Does this make the Lord happy to have these children die? My personal opinion is that he has provided things to make our lives better through inspiration and blessings upon those researchers who created these vaccines.
IF one has concerns I would HEAVILY advise talking to their doctor. If you think that you do not want to get vaccinated, instead of just consulting yourself and deciding not to, I HEAVILY advise you talk to your doctor instead. You may be surprised at what they say...they may agree with you (especially if you have certain health variables), but for most the advice they give will probably be to take the vaccine.
I know my doctor is VERY pro-vaccine, I cannot vouch for others though.
Once again, from the article I posted the link to above...
They have given us examples and statements. How much more do you want them to do or say about it?