Aaddaamm

If you are truly repentant, have no fear in being excommunicated from the Church. Call it Gods will if you must. I have been a member my entire life, like you, and I have had a good solid couple of years of inactivity, where I wanted and had nothing to do with the church because I wanted things it advised against. Your best bet, which works 100% of the time for everyone like us, is to pray to God and believe that he wants the best for you, even if you feel you dont deserve it. Ask specifically for the Spirit to be with the Bishop as you attempt to speak with him on a specific day and time. And itll all work out according to your wants if they are righteous. You'll be surprised. Best feeling ever.

1. Christ cannot perfect a sinner. That is to say a person perfects themselves by using christ's atonement. (I.e perfected through Christ) therefore Christ cannot perfect anyone unless they use their agency to choose to repent. 2. Agree 3. Only the righteous will have 1000+ years And yes, however long it may take, a person can change given the right time and circumstance.

I think people are misunderstanding my question. The probationary state is not the only state in which repentance is possible, so mosiah and Alma did not have the full scope of the plan of salvation. Because people can repent when they are dead. My question is: Why is the Mortal experience so important. Could we not have done all of this a better way ? We exercised free will before we came to earth, could we not have a different plan in which eternal justice doesnt limit so many people, and instead have an eternity to try perfect ourselves

A Jewish day is 12 hours long. He died 12pm Friday. Dead for 1 day = Friday afternoon Dead 1 night = Friday night 2 day = Saturday 2 night = Saturday 3 day =Sunday morning. 3 night = Sunday night, He didnt appear to the apostles until the night time. So all, except the apostles thought that his body was in the tomb for the 3 days and nights. It definately was for 3 days.

Hey will not force them. But if they choose to their pride over marriage, they will be denied the blessings of exaltation.

Doubt and lacking faith are NOT sins. Last general conference stated that very clearly. Which psalm ?? Bruce R. Mckonkie wrote that definition you know. You shouldnt be so quick to cling to it. If you re read that definition, it says, spiritual death is death pertaining to things of righteousness, but this only applies to the judgement. The other type of spiritual death is separation from God. Christ needed to experience spiritual death, otherwise he is a liar when he says he descended below all things. I could say I've experienced worse than Him, because I have experienced being without God and he hasn't.

This is logical. However, Gods ways are not our ways, therefore dont be so confident that this is the answer.

I believe and so does Bruce R. Mckonkie and many other apostles, that Christ experienced spiritual death on the cross for a short moment, when he cried, "Eli eli, Lama sabacthani", which is to say: my God my God, why have you forsaken me.

When Satan Opposed Gods plan, there was a war in heaven. This means, satan sinned in Gods presence, yet God allowed satan to stay in his presence for a long enough time for him to influence 1 third of all the hosts of heaven. That is probably trillions of people. So sin and uncleaness can be in Gods presence? Did we not choose God over Satan premortal?

Then answer this question, in light of this. Why cant we all stay as spirits and learn what the children learned, before they died at 8yrs.

I should have been more specific. How does your theory work for children that died before experiencing the above reference. Do they miss out on the learning, yet are saved. Seems to me that this is not the case. That your above mentioned reason for being here is wrong.

How does this theory work for people that die without having lived more than 2 years on earth.

God does withhold or hide information from us though. We do not have all truth, which is why we are discussing this. I see no point in living this life, if I had all knowledge and could progress into a being like michael, Lucifer and even christ, without a body. Seems to me then, that all I need is a body and my progression should continue from where it was, not from ground 0. It is perfectly reasonable that God withholds information from us here and before so that we can learn and choose on our own. If I were told everything from an all knowing God, I wouldn't argue, question, or choose otherwise.

Mosiah 26:25-27 He is speaking of final judgement, then casts them into hell. If you have to change the way scripture reads, you're almost always wrong. This is a tactic many religious people use to justify their wrong opinions. Jehovah's witnesses for example. Although I can see your logic, I dont agree with it. It sounds wrong to me that a good intention person do good works, without authority and be cast into hell for it.

As I said, I was asking for deep thought on the topic. Is a spirit physical ? When enoch was shown the fate of the world, he looked at the Spirit premortal Christ and Christ was crying. Obviously experiencing emotional, cognitive pain because of the world. So my question was. If we could experience these types of things before earth. Why are we experiencing them again. Could we not have learned this through the spiritual means and therefore deem them unnecessary experiences to have again and again.

Although that is logical. I dont view that as our purpose, I see it as, if we knew God in this life, the test wouldn't be much of a test. We know how to choose under the conditions of eternal life and now we are here to choose under the conditions of spiritual death. Hence the veil. Not so much to do with the intellect we had. But more specifically to hide God from us.

Your first part sounds great, in the perspective of the Father being the engineer. But I cannot see that we would have the knowledge or comprehension of what would need to take place to overcome our weaknesses as we lacked the mortal experience. I dont believe we were all knowing, or any smarter than perhaps Adam and Eve were in the garden. People dont exactly know themselves. There are said to be 4 parts of a persons person. The blind self, the unconscious self, the hidden slef and the public self. We dont exactly know all 4 of these.

How do you then interpret many people saying Lord Lord, have not we done many miracles and cast out devils in your name. And The Lord will say, depart from me, ye that work iniquity, I Never Knew You... this to me seems like a forced consignment into the appropriate state, and someone doesnt agree.

I like to think of it as if I were being toilet trained. God sets up the toilet, the water, the flushing mechanisms and the toilet paper. All I have to do is choose whether I will do my business in his toilet or soil myself. God made plans for the atonement, set it up and completed it. All the hard work is done, we have to choose to accept or reject it. Many are foreordained, and we come to this life with that foreordination, yet few are chosen because they choose evil over good. God in his wisdom knew some of us would not live up to the calling. It would be wrong of God not to give us the opportunity to live up to it, even though he knows we would fail. The world is so complex and intertwined, that the butterfly effect is nonsense. Say theres a banana on the floor, if you dont trip on it, somebody else will. If Hitler didnt rise to power, somebody else would have. If Jo smith didnt fulfill his mission, somebody else would. I believe the only exception to this rule is Jesus Christ. If he didnt atone, nobody else could. Therefore, in Gods wisdom is was essential that christ have the most training and be the closest to Him before providing the atonement.

Hmm, I am of the opinion that we didnt know it all from the start. I believe we knew it would be hard, and we knew about the situations we would be born into. But I do not think that we could comprehend it, having lacked experiencing it. I dont think we could plan our lives, i think we lacked the power to do so. I believe we chose certain aspects of our situation, such as family. I do not think we chose when or where we would be born, i think that's up to God and his wisdom. I for one, would certainly rather an all knowing God choose my plan and pathway over my own feeble premortal intellect.

I dont think we have to prove it to him, I think we must prove it to ourselves

How do you interpret the weeping, wailing and nashing teeth then.

I think we all wanted to be like God in the sense that we all live his lifestyle. So nothing short of exaltation. I could be wrong. Perhaps there were lazy intelligences that would prefer not to do the work, and were happy to be telestialised, or terrestrualised. This would agree with that fact that we were not all as good as eachother. Christ showed Abraham that there were noble and great spirits. This means there were varying degrees of intelligences and attitudes. Lucifer and his followers are another example. Except that they all wanted exaltation the easy way, or should I say the impossible way. Perhaps of we take an existential perspective, this speaks to the fact that they didnt really want it becuase they didnt want to work for it. Which means they didnt understand exactly what it means to be an exalted being. So I cant say for sure. You can find scripture that backs both ideas.

Is it forgiveness if you never trust the person to the same extent you did, before they broke your trust. Example, you're neighbor molests your child. Do you forgive the person to the extent that you trust them again, once they have repented and told you they have changed. Is our degree of forgivenss different to Gods, in that we dont have to trust again. But he can because he knows the persons true self.

I think you are correct. The doctrine of single, covenant keeping woman and men, that qualify for exaltation could be viewed in light of this scripture.... DC 132:43 And if her husband be with another woman, and he was under a vow, he hath broken his vow and hath committed adultery. 44 And if she hath not committed adultery, but is innocent and hath not broken her vow, and she knoweth it, and I reveal it unto you, my servant Joseph, then shall you have power, by the power of my Holy Priesthood, to take her and give her unto him that hath not committed adultery but hath been faithful; for he shall be made ruler over man. The fact that God takes a woman from a man already married and gives her to another because he was not sufficiently faithful, may also mean that God gives sufficiently faithful single women the same opportunity, as in, given to a faithful man in the resurrection. I believe God wants nothing less than exaltation for all his children, which requires being sealed to a spouse. So he will do what he can to make that happen.