Fether

When I said those things, I was referencing te idea that god puts male spirits in female bodies (visa versa) and and justification towards homosexuality. But it didn't occure to me that people were born without either part. If that is true than that does put a hole in my arguement. but I do standby the arguement that God does not "put us" in bodies, but rather they form according to our spirits. With all that is being discussed, perhaps in the forming process, abnormalities can form????

"All living things—mankind, animals, and plants—were spirits before any form of life existed upon the earth (Gen. 2:4–5; Moses 3:4–7). The spirit body looks like the physical body (1 Ne. 11:11; Ether 3:15–16; D&C 77:2; 129). Spirit is matter, but it is more fine or pure than mortal element or matter (D&C 131:7)." - LDS.org definition of 'spirit' a spirit isnt just a wisp floating around, it is an actual physical being. The spirit body looks exactly like our body, that includes the gender specifying parts. I don't believe God "put us" in a body, I believe it is just the natural law if things to developed a body that looks like our spirit. If this is not the case, how is it that Joseph smith recognized his brother Alvin as a spirit in his vision? Or Brigham young recognize Joseph smith in his visions? One could argue they formed themselves to look like the way they were when they died, but then that opens up all sorts of possible tricks of the adversary and goes against the quoye above. Any justification towards gender indentification is dangerous and will only lead to heart ache. Gods stance towards marriage and sexual relations is very clear and any deviation is a sin. i also know multiple LDSs who are homosexual but choose to live a heterosexual life. It isn't impossible

Very true! I forgot about this! An example of spiritual sickness can be found in the story of Zeezrom (Alma 15).

While serving my mission, often times a week before someone's baptism something terrible would happen. Someone would die, they would get sick, or something like that. The typical missionary response was "I hate Satan!"... but I don't know that he has the ability. All he is is a spirit and so all the damage he could do is that of the spirit. I think what is happening is God is testing them to see how committed they are to his gospel. with the case of Job, I have heard many times that it is a symbolic story. But I'm not positive. I don't think Satan can do physical damage to us (unless we allow him and invite him in). However, he can tempt us to doubt and become angry when trials come upon us. that is my insight and understanding.

Actual favorite hymn and temple: poor way fareing man of grief ogden temple

@Sunday21 Favorite hymn: Rock of Ages (Def Leppard version) fav. Temple: me I am a bluegrass fan my mission was in the south! I use to love Kiss... but haven't listen to them in a while so I don't know anymore I absolutely love potlucks as long as there aren't an over abundance of cheesy potatoes. Both a tried and tested/bring something new, I mix things up Favorite "my calling made me grow". I was the Seminary a Council President in high school and that forced me to shapen up a bit, learned how to lead council discussions and make decisions that effect large groups of people Taught primary once a bunch if 7 year olds!! favorite vacation: Glacier National Park / Yosemite

Hey I'm Fether! I've been on here for like a month or so, figured I should do this intro thing. Im a recent RM, love discussing and questioning things. I enjoy debating hot topics and argueing (not fighting) ideas. I love anything that questions or puts my beliefs up to the test allowing me to see if my beliefs are accurate! I love challenging culture! I do drumline, I enjoy writing, I live in the mighty kingdom of Zion (Utah ). I love being happy, though I often find myself grumpy :(. I love scriptures (but I'm no scriptorian) thats me

In the Millenium, the righteous will be the only ones that stand. There are plenty of righteous people who are not Mormon... however... if one is to "confess" Christ as their savior, they must also confess his doctrine. His doctrine is found in the LDS church... so eventually everyone will be LDS. but I guess this comment won't make much sense until we answer a pretty important question. is this fictional "ministry" a replacement of the New Testament? Is it in addition to the NT? Or is it his second coming?

I think you are very right. Thinking back, I can think of a few situations where a stake president presented a training of some sort using a powerpoint and it was fantastic. I can think of another situation where one was using a white board and it was very lecture like. I guess a lot of the time we become slaves to the tools rather than masters of them.

Just a thought I have been sitting on for a while. In institute, Sunday's school, elders quorum and many other teaching and learning situations, using a PowerPoint to direct discussion has always been super popular (at least where I'm from). However, I have never enjoyed this. The majority of times when I sit in on these lessons, the goal typically tends to be to reach the end of the PowerPoint rather than teach to needs of the students. It often forces the class to go into 'lecture' mode and there are few question opportunities outside of pre-planned questions from the teacher. In the manual 'Teaching in the Savior's Way' it says "it is not necessary to cover everything in one class period in order to touch someone’s heart--often one or two key points are enough." It also says similar things in 'Preach my Gospel' and many other church produced resources. I feel like we shooting ourselves in the foot when we are teaching and choose to use PowerPoints. What are the benefits to PowerPoints? Is there a way around the common flaws if using PowerPoints?

Im no psychological expert, but it sounds to me that the swearing isn't the disease, but the symptom of maybe a lack of activity in the gospel. One can attend church every week and everything and still not be active in the gospel. "True doctrine understood changes attitudes and behaviors" (Pres. Packer). If someone is refusing the repent and progress, it is normally always becasue they don't understand (or lack the desire to). If someone isn't doing the basics, praying and studying daily, they won't quit swearing (or really any other habit). If you don't think something is wrong, why quit? Hope this doesn't come off as a judgment toward you or your husband. We are all on different areas of the gospel and all struggling with some kind of sin. And it isn't like God expects us to achieve a certain spiritual level in order to enter the kingdom of God, but what he does expect is for us to constantly be moving toward it till the day we die. But if you could just help your family start making a habit of study and prayer, the swearing (and many other struggles) will start to go away. "And now, as the preaching of the word had a great tendency to lead the people to do that which was just-yea, it had had more powerful effect upon the minds of the people than the sword, or anything else, which had happened unto them-therefore Alma thought it was expedient that they should try the virtue of the word of God" - Alma 31:5

That's a toughy... I have no idea what that would be like O.o . If marriage is that important to you (which it should be ) maybe move to a college town with a larger YSA? Most large scale colleges have YSA's, and they tend to be better schools where you can achieve a greater education. I would suggest weighing the pros and cons of staying at your community college with going to a larger school. You definitely don't want to lower your standards and start dating those who don't share them. And I personally would not date a girl not of the LDS faith, not because they arn't "good enough", but because I would expect a temple marriage with them and won't settle for less. Also, if you haven't already, I would encourage serving a mission (If there are medical reasons why you can't than don't worry about it).

I know there was a bit of humour in what you are saying here, but I don't think we should let this decide what commandments we enforce. Imagine the amount of converts we would get if we began allowing coffee and tea. I can't tell you how many people on my mission wouldn't even hear us out because we didn't allow those 2 drinks. That doesn't stop the presidency from enforcing this conmandment.

Well... to be fair... refraining from eating healthy is already against the word of wisdom. Drinking 2 meters of soda a day is too. You may not get a reccemend revoked or lose a calling over it, but you will still lose the spirit, your priesthood will be diminished and the power and authority you carry will be restrained. D+C 89 and prophets teach pretty clearly we are suppose to take care of our bodies. Sugar isn't bad, fat isn't bad, etc. but taking an excess amount is. I believe that only eating apples for a week straight would also be breaking the WOW. Along with that, using self mastery in WOW will increase your self mastery against other sins. I've never known a great priesthood leader that doesn't eat healthy and take care of himself.

This is really how I have felt too. Does the difference between knowledge and faith play a role? We KNOW that plural marriage and the Mountain Meadow Massacre was a thing because of well kept records and not enough to disprove it. Where as we have FAITH that what is written in scripture is true, but no actual knowledge. This leaving us to have different reaction to similar events from history and scripture. im not disclosing my self because I do te same thing, but I wonder if even the most faithful of saints, the elect, still struggle with puting together history and scripture.

A simple question that has perplexed me for a long time now. Why is it that when we read over the Old Testament and learn about multiple wives we shrug it off, but when we see it in church history, there is so much upheaval over it? It's all the same doctrine. Do we (even the most faithful of saints) struggle seeing the Bible as being more fictitious than actual "recorded" history? I'm interested to hear responses.

Satan is going to use whatever he can to drive us away from Christ, and we all have different weaknesses. Some will be able to withstand violence, but fall to sins of morality. Others will stand strong against theological debates, but when war comes, they may fall. Satan will use every tool he has, physical and spiritual (they really are the same though), to conquer is individually.

Just commenting on your last sentence, it isn't by accident that we are among the few chosen to be born in the gospel. It wasn't luck that put us here, but our agency in pre-earth life. Alma 13, Abraham 3:22-28 and many other scriptures all teach that we are placed here on Earth because of decisions we made in pre-earth life. Those of us whom are members of the church had valiant testimonies of christ in the pre-existence before we did here. And many of those who are not members of the church may have followed Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ in pre-existence, but were not valiant in their testimonies. Not luck, just rewards for righteousness in a life past

@NeuroTypical I have no intentions to end it, only improve my experience thanks everyone!!

@DoctorLemon Thou child of Hell! jk I always saw institute attendance super important, I know that if I didn't go I would miss out on spiritual nourishment (even if I'm bored). Though I don't get intellectually fed, the spiritual blessings I received throughout the day are pretty clear. @Vort Totally agree!

I'm ganna start with a preface. I loved seminary! I thrived there, I took 3 seminary classes my junior year of highschool (officially only one). My senior year I only had a few classes so when I was out of class with school in session, I was in the seminary I was even on Seminary Council growing up. After graduation, that love transferred to institute! Then I went on my mission and developed what I felt was amazing study habits and tactics, I learned to ask hard questions and get strong answers, I became accustom to deep discussion about basic doctrine in training meetings that broke the 'why' of missionary work down to the very core. And then seeing results in the work. When I got home, I jumped back into institute. I'm now at a college in Utah taking an institute class and I have been very dissappointed with my experience. I felt like I was back in seminary where only a few participate and no one is wanting to ask any hard questions. It's just a resesitation of the same doctrine that I have been learning the last 20 or so years. One day I found myself thinking "Why am I even here?" I do the readings, Inparticipate, ask questions and all that, smile at everyone and talk to all those around me... But I often dislike being there... What can I do to change this??? im prepared for a rebuking so have at it I know my experience is up to me and not the others in class. Constructive feed back would be great

I feel like stress can also be a sign of progression. Prophets, while in trials, are often said to be "weighed down by the sins of the people". Stress isn't bad, sadness isn't bad, etc. but it's the losing hope and faith that is bad. Relaxation is not a fruit of the spirit x) peace is though!!

D+C 58:42" 42 Behold, he who has repented of his sins, the same is forgiven, and I, the Lord, remember them no more." We will remember, but I think God means what he says I also like what Rameumptom said. It isn't really a tallied amount of sins vs good things done, rather "what have we become" or like I prefer to think of it. "Who are we?"

I'm no Old Testament buff, but I always did find it interesting that the consequences of certain sins were a lot more terrible back then than they are now. A thought I had while reading through some of these posts: Throughout the scriptures, God has changed commandments (not the eternal laws, just the policy-oriented ones). i.e. Priesthood. First it was patriarchal and only found in one family, then only found in a certain tribe, then later only found among a race of men, and today, all men can have it. The Word of Wisdom (or a law of health) has changed too. The Jews practiced a law that is far different from ours today, as did the early saints. Plural marriage, FHE, sacrifice, consecration. The list goes on. If policies can change, why can't consequences to the breaking of such policies change? Now natural/eternal law is law and consequences of breaking eternal laws can't be lessened beyond what the law demands, but God can enact consequences to increase the punishment over breaking certain laws (ie Breaking the Sabbath use to mean physical and spiritual death (Numbers 15:32,35), now it just mean spiritual death). This may not really answer any questions, just thoughts I had This however I feel applies more to the discussion. I believe the real question that we should ask is not about the Character of Christ, but rather about the nature of death. While serving my mission, I found it rather frustrating when people would say "My sibling died at child birth, why would God allow that to happen!?". Now I may have been inconsiderate (which was an is a sin I'm still trying to beat), but that is beside the point. I got frustrated because these people who professed to be Christian couldn't see beyond their natural eyes (1 Cor 2:14) Death is nothing more than just a transition from one state of existence to another. It is hardly a punishment, hardly something to really worry about. The only fear is that of the unknown, but that fear can be dissipated as our faith increases. Death isn't that terrible of a thing, God destroying a city of wicked people isn't as terrible as we make it out to be. Fear of death is a deeply rooted, human culture, that has naturally built-in every one of us over the past 6,000ish years. We give lip service that eternal damnation is the greatest punishment, but we naturally see death as being the greatest punishment. The wicked will receive the punishment of eternal damnation whether they die now or in 20 years, and the final judgment comes at the same time for all of us. An early death will not send someone to Hell faster than living (I believe time works the same here as it does in the spirit world... am I wrong?) If there is any false doctrine that I spoke, feel free to call me out

Oooff... Got a lot of flack for that "prettier" bit O.o ... You're all right, I know, but it was something I just typed in passing :|, it wasn't meant to be a comprehensive list of the main things that were bugging me... That being said, I thought more on it and am changing my perspective, so thank you all for that. I promise that is not all I'm looking for (though it is important to me and I am absolutely positive that every one of your spouses thinks you are the most attractive people on the planet (And I am also sure that that attraction grew in marriage (feeling like I have to justify everything I'm saying right now x) ))). Anyway, I thank those of you who were honest and also gave constructive feed back I appreciate what you said Vort (and not just because you defended me ). I grew up hearing all the time "looks don't matter", and then about high school there was a culture switch when everyone was saying "looks do matter, but they aren't everything". I agree with that last one, but I know you veteran spouses probably have more to say on that. Point is, I was very stressed, worked it out in my mind, prayed, went to the temple, even opened up to my girlfriend about the anxiety I was feel. We talked it out on a drive back from her home town and she gave me a lot of help . Thanks everyone for your input!!