Fether

Maybe I’ll just call it “abrupt cognitive latching”. That sounds good

In the scenario of wanting a siblings toy, yes… but not so much in How it applies to me. It’s not about wanting something that isn’t yours, but rather being content until you see something and you can no longer function until you have it. This is an experience that happens regardless of whether it is something you have or don’t have. a simple example. I am content playing with my children. Then my wife yells “I have ice cream for everyone!”. All of a sudden I am no longer content with my children, I am now craving ice cream and don’t want to play with my kids. Had my wife not told me there was ice cream, I would have been content continue playing with my children. Its this experience I am talking about. We don’t want something till we know it is there and all of a sudden we demand it.

The experience when someone doesn’t want something until they see it. My children experience this when they see each other playing with a toy. They were as happy as they could be until they saw their sibling playing with a toy. They all of a sudden become angry until they get that toy. Im trying to find a word for this because it helps me overcome weaknesses if I can label it. I find myself doing this extremely often. I am as happy as can be until I see an interesting video, forum post, or article. I then can no longer function until I watch or read the thing I saw. Is there a word or concept that explains this?

Maybe you can help me with this. The Book of Mormon videos put out by the church seem to paint Sherem as a Jew who rejects the Christian idea of Christ. However, Christ hadn’t come yet so there wasn’t yet any conflict to be had on who Christ was. was the name “Christ” not something the Jews used to refer to the messiah as? Was “Christ” only a term used by Christian’s after his coming and revealed to the Nephites?

It is said that Sherem both denied that there would be a Christ, yet believed the scriptures. How is this so? What is the modern day equivalent of this?

You are swaying me. Though my mind is not quite content with either side of the argument.

Great, and what does that entail and imply? (Side note: my comment on asking if that was it was a question of quantity, not quality)

So my question is just based on whether or not we think there are people who look at those blessings and say “nah” numbers 2 and 3 I can see people being ok missing out on. Don’t know about 1 and 4

I recognize that. But what that entails isn’t exactly ever spelled at. Only one of those references you gave gives any sort of substance. To know God and Christ (which still isn’t clear). is that all they are missing? To know God?

Which is what exactly

Will the differences between kingdoms be beauty, delicious foods, party games, internet connection, health care? Or will the differences be duty, and with duty comes further capability? Perhaps something else? I know plenty of people who have no desire for callings and would be happier not involved in that. They also feel little pain in the fact that they aren’t involved in stake high counsel meeting. What could they possibly miss out on that would make them wish to be there?

Because our understanding of Hell is that it is temporary is what lead me to peg us with the universalist tag. Everyone will be in some joyous form of paradise by the end of it all.

TLDR; I’m right, you’re wrong I will concede that universalist is a poor word for what I am trying to say. I now recognize that it comes with the mindset of procrastination and casual worship. In my somewhat recent experience, I have 3 siblings who all left the church. Two of which never really had a strong testimony despite being raised in the same home as me and the other. My mom spent a long time beating herself up by thinking she failed as a mother and that it is her fault there will be “empty chairs at the table” in the celestial kingdom. We have spoke on this often and are confident happiness of some sort awaits them. A never ending boiling cauldron of lava is not their destination and I choose to believe Joseph Smith when he says “the glory of the telestial kingdom surpasses all understanding”. I’m not saying some amount of misery will not be experienced, I’m simply stating they will be happy where they are at. Perhaps happier there than anywhere else. Brigham young was quoted to have said; “Some might suppose that it would be a great blessing to be taken and carried directly into heaven and there set down, but in reality that would be no blessing to such persons; they could not reap a full reward, could not enjoy the glory of the kingdom, and could not comprehend and abide the light thereof, but it would be to them a hell intolerable and I suppose would consume them much quicker than would hell fire. It would be no blessing to you to be carried into the celestial kingdom, and obliged to stay therein, unless you were prepared to dwell there” But my thoughts on this still stand, everyone is saved (except sons of perdition, which I will get to in a second). I just do t wish to include in that any sense of apathy toward missionary work.but rather an understanding that not all are elect. There seems to be some acknowledgement in scripture that only a few are elect and desires of exaltation: “Behold, there are many called, but few are chosen. And why are they not chosen? Because their hearts are set so much upon the things of this world, and aspire to the honors of men” (Doctrine and Covenants 121:34-35) “Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.” (Matt 7:14) “ye are called to bring to pass the gathering of mine elect; for mine elect hear my voice and harden not their hearts;” (Doctrine and Covenants 29:7) “gather mine elect from the four quarters of the earth, even as many as will believe in me, and hearken unto my voice” (Doctrine and Covenants 33:6) search “elect” in the gospel library and you will find references to finding the elect of God in virtually every general conference. Not everyone is elect and that is ok. Lastly, before I hop topics. John 14:2 says “In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.” mansions is cross referenced to “telestial kingdom”. Ether 12:32 say God has prepared house for man among the mansions of our fatber. I have to believe God has prepared a place for everyone regardless of what truth they decide to follow. Despite not everyone being elect and fit for exaltation, there is a glories place awaiting all his children. I deliberately leave out the * that should say “except sons of perdition” because so believe that is a negligible number and not worth discussing I will also concede that my thoughts on the sons of perdition being small in number is an opinion. I’ll add more context to why I think this: “The sin against the Holy Ghost requires such knowledge that it is manifestly impossible for the rank and file to commit such a sin” (The Miracle of Forgiveness). ”What must a man do to commit the unpardonable sin? He must receive the Holy Ghost, have the heavens opened unto him, and know God, and then sin against him. After a man has sinned against the Holy Ghost, there is no repentance for him. He has got to say that the sun does not shine while he sees it; he has got to deny Jesus Christ when the heavens have been opened unto him, and to deny the plan of salvation with his eyes open to the truth of it; and from that time he begins to be an enemy. This is the case with many apostates of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints” (Joseph Smith, History of the Church, 6:314) “Those who enter into the telestial kingdom, where their glories differ as do the stars of heaven in their magnitude, and who are innumerable as the sands of the seashore, are the ungodly, the filthy who suffer the wrath of God on the earth, who are thrust down to hell where they will be required to pay the uttermost farthing before their redemption comes. These are they who receive not the gospel of Christ and consequently could not deny the Holy Spirit while living on the earth. “They have no part in the first resurrection and are not redeemed from the devil and his angels until the last resurrection, because of their wicked lives and their evil deeds. Nevertheless, even these are heirs of salvation, but before they are redeemed and enter into their kingdom, they must repent of their sins, and receive the gospel, and bow the knee, and acknowledge that Jesus is the Christ, the Redeemer of the world” (Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 2:22). To me, it seems clear that the message trying to be conveyed is that it is extremely difficult to become a son of perdition. It’s not merely rejecting the gospel (the last quote makes that clear) but rather having received the highest of all blessings and being shown the truth in a way that removes ALL uncertainty, and THEN refusing it. Again, I’ll concede this to be opinion, but I doubt anyone I know is capable of this. One has to climb to the highest rungs of righteousness, see God, and then reject him. Knowingly reject the reality of the situation after having been made known of it.

I’ve heard the exact opposite opinion from virtually everyone I have heard speak on this. This is the first I have heard this opinion spoken. "Latter-day revelations speak of hell in at least two ways. First, it is another name for spirit prison, a temporary place in the postmortal world for those who died without a knowledge of the truth or those who were disobedient in mortality. Second, it is the permanent location of Satan and his followers and the sons of perdition, who are not redeemed by the Atonement of Jesus Christ." - Gospel Topics that spirit prison is temporary, sons of perdition are eternal. I guess this topic depends on whether the sons ofmoersitio. Will be infinitely small in number or far more common. I imagine the numbers will be so small that it will be inconsequential consider g the description of those who will be in the telestial kimgdom and sons of perdition ”Telestial glory will be reserved for individuals who “received not the gospel of Christ, neither the testimony of Jesus” (Doctrine and Covenants 76:82). These individuals will receive their glory after being redeemed from spirit prison, which is sometimes called hell” - Gospel Topics ”The inhabitants of the telestial kingdom will include those who were murderers, liars, sorcerers, adulterers, and whoremongers—in general, the wicked people of the earth” - Doctrines if the gospel manual ”Those who in mortality have known the power of God, been made partakers of it, and then later denied the truth and defied God’s power will also be sons of perdition (see D&C 76:31–32). Those who deny the Holy Ghost after having received it and crucify the Savior unto themselves will have no forgiveness and will be sons of perdition (see D&C 76:34–36; Matthew 12:31–32).” - Doctrines of the Gospel Manual I believe the number of those who “have known the power of God, been made partakers of it, and then later denied the truth and defied God’s power” will be unbelievably small

True. Their understanding of Salvation, hell, judgement, sin, and virtually all gospel topics are different. Naturally there would need to be some adjustment of definition in universalism. All that aside, we believe Christ saved everyone and that no one is going to hell (traditional Christian view of hell). This is a universalistic view.

It’s unimportant to those that dont see it as important so there is no need to force feed it.

I’m simply pointing out that it isn’t a problem if someone would rather have a lower degree of glory than Celestial glory. Much of this life is about finding out what we want and seeking it. We ought not lol down on those who do not want to responsibility that comes with our faith

Be more tactful and focus more on love than on truth

I recognize some of the doctrine I mentioned above is somewhat condescending on non-believers, but from a utility standpoint, Latter-day Saint should be less pushy in Missionary work

It isn’t much of an issue. Someone isn’t any less important for wanting less than another.

I would add that asking someone who doesn’t believe in God “how can I help lead you to Chris isn’t very useful.” It might scratch the “I’m a missionary” itch, but it is unlikely to move any needle.

What’s nice about the Latter-day Saint faith and doctrine is that we are extremely universalist. Everyone is “saved” and there is nothing joining our faith will do for your salvation beyond giving you more freedom in the afterlife. What’s not so nice is that the Latter-day Saint faith gets a little Christian culture sneaking in on occasion. We begin proselyting more ferociously than we ought to on occasion. Instead of trying to convince, we ought to be seeking the elect and parting truth we have to people when they are ready to hear it. That is our faith, truth and love to all who will hear and receive and to whatever extent they wish to receive it. In the end, we will all receive that which we wish to obey

I always accept my callings, but I have not been offered a calling I would want to refuse. If I was offered a calling I feel I couldn’t do, I would explain my situation to the person offering the call and why I feel I may not be the best fit. After explaining the situation, I would then say “I am more than happy to accept the calling, I just wanted to let you know my limitations.”

I’m calling out my own side for not living to their ideals. My concern has to do with Doctrine and Covenants 82:3, Luke 12:47-48, and James 4:7 I also have little drive to try and change Babylon, I’ve seen that fail over and over. Spending time building the kingdom of God is a better use of my time and effort.

I’m not so concerned about individual judgement, I’m more concerned about people living up to their ideals. Babylon will do what Babylon does, but saints should not act the same way.