wenglund

These articles may provide a good starting point for your research:: A Case For Ancient Temple Ordinances. and Ancient Temples and Their Functions. and Eternal Marriage and Family in the Old Testament.
Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Which is fine when there is evidence, as is sometimes the case, that a conservative is being hypocritical. There is no evidence of that being the case on this board. There is, in some cases, compromise because of the world we live in. But to claim that the conservatives on this board, who are also morally conservative Latter-day Saints, are okay-dokey with adultery and abusing women is pathetic.
Why is it that we conservatives allow that progressives on the board have good intentions but are simply misguided on the solutions, but the progressives paint conservatives as willfully evil? We're being called willful hypocrites who don't really care about immorality, only about political power and bashing gays.
Which proves what? That homosexuality is good?
Give me a break, Mr. Non-sequitur.
You find me a post by anyone, any time, on this forum saying that Trump's adultery was a-okay and we can talk. Until then your point has no merit whatsoever. Trump's indiscretions have nothing to do with homosexuality and the theoretical discussions we have about how individuals struggling with that desire should approach dealing with it.
If you don't want your ideas referred to as ignorant or stupid then maybe you shouldn't blanket accuse faithful Latter-day Saints of being pro-adultery. How do you expect us to respond to that? Did you expect hugs in response to your post?

Disingenuous is too kind. It was either a blatant lie, or it was based on tremendous ignorance or stupidity.
And @MormonGator, @LiterateParakeet and @JohnsonJones liked and thanked the post?!
Are you kidding me?
Everyone here is condemnatory of Trump for his sexual sins. Every single one of us, even Trump supporters like @anatess2, believe those things to have been grievously wrong. And if Trump doesn't repent of it he'll stand accountable at judgement day. Duh.
Claiming that "conservative" on this board refuse to criticize the president for such things is such a ridiculous head-in-the-sand comment.... Seriously you three? Are you really so consumed with animosity towards conservative views that you're willing to get in bed with that kind of nonsense?

This is intellectually disingenuous.  First of all - we don't "condemn those with same gender attraction".  Rather, we "condemn the sin of same gender sex."  Second of all, Trump supporters did not elect Trump because he cheated on his wife just like W Bush supporters did not support W Bush because he is a drunk and Bill Clinton supporters did not elect Bill Clinton because he is a rapist and Reagan supports did not elect Reagan because he chased skirts in Hollywood.  But yes, tons of people elected Obama because he is black.

Oh, we’ve gone the rounds on Trump.  

I'm sticking to "the West."  I feel pretty comfortable considering Japan a First World nation and they still have a very traditional view of marriage.  China too.  There's a heavy sense of duty in those cultures that's virtually nonexistent on this side of the planet.
That said, I do agree that most of our social problems can only exist in a culture that's "advanced" to the point where people have time for this stuff.  The Roman Empire is a good example.  I have seen some pretty compelling research that shows that Rome fell gradually because of its own decadence and complacency, and not because of external attack.

It’s not “The West”.  It’s the “First World”.  Where people don’t have concerns of starvation and dependency on family and God anymore so they find “Love” i  hedonistic places.
Tear the US down to 3rd World levels and you’ll see marriages reflect Godly standards once more.

Your post had me chuckling. 
However, joking aside,  if you think the lack of sexual attraction makes marriage a horrible idea, then logically wouldn't that mean that the loss of sexual attraction would make staying in a marriage a horrible idea as well? Isn't the high divorce rate argument the same?
Where is the social sympathy for the high-powered males who marry raving beauties only to later find them gaining weight and wrinkles, sagging in places, and experiencing the unpleasantness of menopause, etc.  If these alpha types subsequently lose sexual interest in their spouses, particularly when there are willing, younger raving beauties about, should they not follow their heart and their sexual attractions? Many of them do now anyway--not just by way of divorce, but also adultery?.
To me, this is the problem with secular-social "reasoning." There is nothing to prevent  "immorality" creep" and the eventual normalization thereof.
Besides,  isn't the "high rate of divorce" argument a product of " immorality creep"--the increased acceptance of divorce and immoral sexual activities?  Prior to the gay movement in the mid 70, not a few gay men got married, and stayed married. It was only afterwards, when gays divorcing their heterosexual spouses became vogue, that the high rate of divorce became a factor. 
Supposed compassion and understanding made matters worse for gays.
Thanks, -Wade Englund-

These articles may provide a good starting point for your research:: A Case For Ancient Temple Ordinances. and Ancient Temples and Their Functions. and Eternal Marriage and Family in the Old Testament.
Thanks, -Wade Englund-

..if not also  terribly ill-informed. But, false equivalencies  have long been a staple of the  Left.
Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Weird. 

The new-fangled progressive gospel:
For the natural man is an enemy to God (except for sexual orientation), and has been from the fall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever, unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit (except in the case of sexual orientation), and putteth off the natural man (except for, of course, sexual orientation) and becometh a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord, and becometh as a child, submissive, meek, humble, patient, full of love, willing to submit to all things which the Lord seeth fit to inflict upon him (unless it means marrying someone who doesn't sexually thrill you), even as a child doth submit to his father.

It’s not just that culture promotes cheating; it’s that it sets unrealistic expectations for what “love” and “marriage” are supposed to look like and the role they are supposed to play in one’s overall identity.  
When the final tallies are in, it may be that just as many divorces are attributable to Walt Disney as to Hugh Hefner.

This sounds logical on the surface but twisted when you scratch.  It stems from the hedonistic sexual revolution cow dung that has plagued modern society that posits sexual attraction is purely a byproduct of biology (natural man) and not Christian Love.  And even goes so far as to say Love cannot exist unless sexual attraction is there first.  I would posit that divorce happens not because sexual attraction is not present but Christian Love is not present.  And that with Christian Love, sexual expression can follow.

I think that's very true but only within the context of modern western culture.  
I have a Caucasian, American friend who married a Vietnamese girl through an arranged marriage.  Here's the story:
My buddy (we'll call him Tony) had married a girl from Vietnam a few years prior.  She had a cousin back home who was looking for a husband.  Enter our buddy (whom we'll call Jeff), who was single and feeling lonely.  Strings were pulled, phonecalls were made, one thing leads to another and pow... marriage arranged.  He goes to Vietnam to meet her, at which point he also formally accepts her to become his wife and they're married.  He brings her home to the U.S. where they get married again here.  (There's no international agreement between the U.S. and Vietnam to honor marriages done in the other country) Now, I am pretty sure that she had some agency in all this... She could have said no, although I suspect it would have cost her personally, and her reputation and the family's reputation may have suffered... but I'm not sure.  Either way, Jeff could have walked away at any time with no loss to him.
A few years go by and that marriage is in a state of total collapse.  I'll leave out the details but here's the thing... Other parts of the world do still practice arranged marriages and within the context of their cultures, it works.  Try to cross cultural boundaries and that's where you have trouble.  Here in the west in 2019 we have a radically different idea of marriage, to where any marriage that feels compelled is unthinkable.  We don't even do shotgun weddings anymore.  It just isn't in our cultural identity.  But that doesn't invalidate the practice of arranged marriage per se, it just doesn't work in this culture.

All marriage that is not done in G-d's name will end when men are dead - which is a type of divorce.  Having a marriage that will last is the great exception.
 
The Traveler

It is possible that the problem is worse than just that.  We have developed a condition in our society where it is not just impossible to do scientific research to determine ways and methods to help "Ken" but it has become illegal to even formally try to help or understand why in order to bring about a cure.  There is such strong resistance that to even suggest the idea of helping a "Ken" in many quarters will get someone labeled as a homophobe bigot.  Jesus addressed this in talking about the symbolic difference between light and darkness - see John 3:19-20
Note verse 20 where some avoid being reproved because their deeds are not of light.  In essence Jesus says they defend themselves by saying if they are reproved that they have the right to hate the light because of reproof.   And thus light is reproved because of the world's love of darkness and hatred of light.
Also sad because those that would help "Ken" - have no idea how to actually help and those that would not help "Ken" hate him for seeking a way out of the darkness.  So in ignorance we can only cry faith in Jesus Christ and declare repentance. 
 
The Traveler

I think the biggest problem with today's cultural patterns is that our collective "best-interest-o-meters" are badly malfunctioning and we're at a point where people equate one's best interest with their desires and feelings, to the point where people's entire identity is defined by what they want and how they feel instead of what they contribute and what they do.  
People feel pity for guys like Ken because he isn't giving in to his physical desires instead of admiring him for having the level of self control and wisdom to make his choices by his faith.  I WISH my faith were as strong as his.

You're kidding!  really?
/sarcasm
I didn't think I needed the disclaimer.  Yes, I'm aware that he's ONE example.  But you know, Ken, like other people in his situation, isn't just some data point.  They're each unique with their own story, their own feelings and their own reactions.  That was my point.  You can't take an entire collection of people living with a particular set of challenges and talk about them as if they're all experiencing the same thing in the same way.  Ken is one example but he isn't unique.  Lots of members of the Church with same sex attraction deal with it the way Ken does, and lots don't.  Some find it easy, some find it hard.  Some go back and forth a few times on their path.
I didn't share his story to make a debate point.  I shared it because his is a story that deserves to be told and honored.

I am inclined to believe that all the things we think are simple are in reality much more complex and all the things we think are too complex are simpler than we think.
In truth I have no other means to judge or understand anything except through my own eyes and heart.  Most of my experiences with those that claim same sex sexuality have been extremely negative.  I have some "friends" that are full out of the closet homosexuals - some that are striving as many of us are to be worthy Latter-day Saints.  I have encountered homosexuals that have every intent to abuse me or convince me that I should "try" homosexuality. 
My scientific background leads me to think that we cannot understand others or even ourselves without a clear understanding of what makes others or ourselves tick.  But most individuals lack the personal confidence (self-esteem) to be able to look deeply at the why.  Turning over the rocks of our deep self (sole) can be unpleasant and even terrifying. Most want to blame something outside themselves for what they think, believe, hope for and do – especially when we realize that we are flawed and we are all flawed.   There is a tendency to think we are justified despite our flaws or that we are enough good traits to offset our flaws.  As an engineer I have learned the lesson many times – that until you know what has gone wrong and why – nothing you do or try will ever even come close to fixing the problem.  We, as a society ought to be able to discuss things that are important – openly without name calling or condemnation.
There are some elements that I am convinced of that plague homosexuals at least the homosexuals I have encountered.
#1. They are quite fragile, especially with emotions and self-esteem.   There is a basic belief that they cannot be what they believe they should or what everybody should be.  They strongly believe they are “different”.  There is an attempt to adjust by believing they should be accepted as they are; not as what they ought to or should become.
#2. There is a strong propensity towards masturbation.   This propensity is so strong that I am inclined to believe there is a relation between self-sexuality and same sex sexuality.   I am not suggesting that everybody that masturbates will become homosexual but that everyone that is homosexual – masturbates. 
I am inclined to believe that masturbation and pornography are the two great plagues of our society.  But I believe that there is another evil or temptation that goes before these two.  This is the divine understanding of marriage and intimacy (sex) between a son and daughter of G-d.  I believe this is so misunderstood that many do not realize that a flaw in understanding that a man and woman complete each other – both physically and spiritually – that all sexual temptations and difficulties come from unrepented missunderstandings of the divine purpose of marriage and sexual relationships (law of chastity). 
 
The Traveler

Condemning bad behavior and sin is itself commendable and even desirable. But don't condemn yourself, any more than you would condemn your neighbor for his weaknesses. Though you appear to be uncommonly courageous in your honest self-examination, you do not have a God's-eye view of things. Please don't let your rigorous honesty bleed over into self-condemnation. You should show yourself the same charity you would extend to others. Not sure how that's done, but that's certainly the path.

There's no time like today.
Get to it man!

As someone who has been celibate for nearly a half century,, I can tell you that it isn't  worthy of high regard and admiration, but quite the opposite. We celibates, regardless of sexual orientation, have failed to keep the first command, and have put ourselves in jeopardy of defying the will of God by not positioning ourselves to become exalted as He is. It is essentially an act of selfishness that not only limits our own potential and denies us some of the greatest blessings, but may also negatively impact those spirits we could have brought into this world. I look back with sorrow and regret and humility rather than self-satisfaction and pride. My obedience in not committing sins of sexual commission are overshadowed by my sins of sexual omission.
But, that may just be my way of looking at it.
Thanks -Wade Engund-

They could get all that by marrying a person of the opposite gender (or, in many states, via a civil union/domestic partnership that doesn’t presume to call itself a “marriage”).  And I presume you wouldn’t agree with a father and daughter who marry each other for tax reasons?
Adam is homosexual—meaning, by definition, that he is sexually attracted to men.  Adam “married” a man when he could have married a woman.  And Adam wants us to think his “marriage” has nothing—nothing!—to do with sex.  
Does Adam think we are stupid?

I've debated this idea and the nuance of it at some length. Some things should be obvious. And yet....
As for myself, when I look at a woman and think... "aaahhh yeaaahhhh...." I know I have not been perfect in that response. I know I've objectified her. I know that's not the way Heavenly Father and Christ look at her. I know that I must repent.
Others can justify their imperfections as "not sin" all they want. I call bull.
When I'm perfect then I'll have no more cause to repent. Until then...