person0

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  1. Like
    person0 got a reaction from SilentOne in Deceived   
    I think your computer was recently deceived as to what you meant to type.  Either that or you were deceived by your grammar teacher.  
    Switching to serious mode, I think that the last verse you posed (D&C 43:6) really hits home for me because of the verses that precede and follow it:
    This informs us that true messengers will follow the prescribed patterns revealed to us in the latter day revelations we have, and will be properly appointed.  I believe that most deception will occur when people follow 'revelation' that comes from a seemingly true pattern, but is not from the pattern and process laid out to us for the latter-days.  There are already many Snufferites and others in the Church who have been deceived by following people who make a good case, but who are not authorized according to the revealed method.  I think many will be deceived more because they will be convinced that certain doctrines are false or non-doctrines are true and will make decisions based on a few verses or statements.  As Neil L. Anderson put it:
    Personally I have pondered this topic as it related to the fruit of the Spirit.  I believe Satan works very hard to mimic the fruit of the Spirit as closely as possible to deceive as many as he can.  Below are some of the things I have considered in terms of how he mimics them (in addition to the evil fruits already listed in Galatians).
    Fruit of the Spirit |  Satan's Alternative (or some of them at least)
    Love                      |  Physical and emotional intimacy / Lust
    Joy                        |  Fun / Laughter / Entertainment, etc.
    Peace                   |  Tranquility (I first noticed this when I spent a day working carpet cleaning in a meditation temple for a far eastern religion)
    Longsuffering        |  'Wo is me' - those who 'patiently' wait for an evil end (i.e. homosexual couple suing business - awaiting reparations and societal acceptance)
    Gentleness           |   'Tolerance' / Acceptance or approbation (esp. of wickedness)
    Goodness             |  Financially Charitable, 'nice', Mainstream
    Faith                     |  Conviction / Confidence  (Saul was steadfast in his beliefs before he converted to the truth; most 'salesmen' are confident in their products)
    Meekness             |  Resignation/Submission/Apathy (i.e. giving up and 'accepting your fate')
    Temperance          |  'appropriate' moderation of bad things (i.e. alcohol, drug use, porn, extra-marital sexual conduct, etc.)
    Many of us would immediately recognize the wickedness of many actions of our fellow men.  However, I am constantly being reminded and watching the elect be deceived on a daily basis as I see what some who are 'active' members of the church are posting on Facebook, saying in sacrament meeting, advocating for, etc.
    All that said, I believe the most effective protections against deception are a continually nourished testimony of true and established principles and doctrines of the gospel; an inner testimony and commitment to follow the prophet and apostles; and following the prescribed patterns revealed to us in existing latter day revelations.  All easier said than done. 
  2. Like
    person0 got a reaction from Edspringer in Deceived   
    I think your computer was recently deceived as to what you meant to type.  Either that or you were deceived by your grammar teacher.  
    Switching to serious mode, I think that the last verse you posed (D&C 43:6) really hits home for me because of the verses that precede and follow it:
    This informs us that true messengers will follow the prescribed patterns revealed to us in the latter day revelations we have, and will be properly appointed.  I believe that most deception will occur when people follow 'revelation' that comes from a seemingly true pattern, but is not from the pattern and process laid out to us for the latter-days.  There are already many Snufferites and others in the Church who have been deceived by following people who make a good case, but who are not authorized according to the revealed method.  I think many will be deceived more because they will be convinced that certain doctrines are false or non-doctrines are true and will make decisions based on a few verses or statements.  As Neil L. Anderson put it:
    Personally I have pondered this topic as it related to the fruit of the Spirit.  I believe Satan works very hard to mimic the fruit of the Spirit as closely as possible to deceive as many as he can.  Below are some of the things I have considered in terms of how he mimics them (in addition to the evil fruits already listed in Galatians).
    Fruit of the Spirit |  Satan's Alternative (or some of them at least)
    Love                      |  Physical and emotional intimacy / Lust
    Joy                        |  Fun / Laughter / Entertainment, etc.
    Peace                   |  Tranquility (I first noticed this when I spent a day working carpet cleaning in a meditation temple for a far eastern religion)
    Longsuffering        |  'Wo is me' - those who 'patiently' wait for an evil end (i.e. homosexual couple suing business - awaiting reparations and societal acceptance)
    Gentleness           |   'Tolerance' / Acceptance or approbation (esp. of wickedness)
    Goodness             |  Financially Charitable, 'nice', Mainstream
    Faith                     |  Conviction / Confidence  (Saul was steadfast in his beliefs before he converted to the truth; most 'salesmen' are confident in their products)
    Meekness             |  Resignation/Submission/Apathy (i.e. giving up and 'accepting your fate')
    Temperance          |  'appropriate' moderation of bad things (i.e. alcohol, drug use, porn, extra-marital sexual conduct, etc.)
    Many of us would immediately recognize the wickedness of many actions of our fellow men.  However, I am constantly being reminded and watching the elect be deceived on a daily basis as I see what some who are 'active' members of the church are posting on Facebook, saying in sacrament meeting, advocating for, etc.
    All that said, I believe the most effective protections against deception are a continually nourished testimony of true and established principles and doctrines of the gospel; an inner testimony and commitment to follow the prophet and apostles; and following the prescribed patterns revealed to us in existing latter day revelations.  All easier said than done. 
  3. Like
    person0 reacted to Vort in Receiving the Sacrament in another church   
    Paul taught that it was not a sin to eat meat that had been sacrificed to idols (though he emphatically said that he would never eat such meat if it offended a brother). However, eating meat sacrificed to an idol is much different from participating in the animal sacrifice or sitting at the sacrifice partaking of it. The meat is just meat, but participating in the sacrificial event is a whole 'nother matter.
    A wafer is just a wafer. Wine is just wine. Other than Section 89, there is no reason we might not eat wafers or drink drinks that others use for their sacraments. Even if the grape juice has been specially "consecrated" and has, in another religion's view, become the literal blood of Christ, we don't believe that. It's still just grape juice. So drinking it is not wrong or sinful (unless we're breaking our covenants as per Section 89). But taking part in another religion's sacramental service or Last Supper or whatever they call it is indeed inappropriate. Such ordinances, however sincere and well-meant, are false sacraments presided over by a false priesthood, and are ultimately mockeries (though perhaps well-intended mockeries) of the true order of sacrament.
    I confess, I'm quite surprised to hear much opposition to this view from other Latter-day Saints. This seems pretty cut-and-dried to me.
  4. Like
    person0 got a reaction from Vort in Receiving the Sacrament in another church   
    If Christ were to actually participate in the communion of a church that did not have the proper authority, he would be acting in political correctness rather than love and respect.  Likewise, those of us who are members of the Church gain nothing from participating, except polite appeasement.  Do we have a problem when people don't take the sacrament in our church?
    Pretend you were a member of a local protestant congregation and Christ visited your church and participated in the communion.  Immediately you as the member of that congregation would interpret that the ordinances in which you were participating were correct and valid.  The same would happen as a Latter-Day Saint, I would be immediately convinced that my religious beliefs had been substantiated by His act of participation.  If this were to occur in an unauthorized and non-authoritative church then the result of Christ's action would be to lead people away from him to a sense of security in their incorrect beliefs and practices.  Christ will never do anything that will lead people away, except allowing by their own agency.
    I would say, more likely, Christ may attend the service and intentionally not participate in the communion. This would allow for those who have 'ears to hear' (or eyes to see) to ask Him why.  He would then lovingly rebuke them and instruct them that the ordinance was false and that if they will follow Him, He will lead them and instruct them in the truth.
  5. Like
    person0 reacted to zil in Receiving the Sacrament in another church   
    That a specific individual is able to feel the Holy Ghost is nothing like the same as Christ accepting an ordinance done by individuals without authority.  The first is a matter of a specific individual's righteousness, and the Holy Ghost leading them along toward further light.  The second implies authorization, ignoring the very laws regarding priesthood and authority which Christ himself established and taught.  In scripture, Christ makes it clear that no ordinance performed without authorization from him is accepted.
    Were it possible for just any old person to start performing ordinances (and the sacrament is an ordinance), there would be no point in even having the Church.  But we believe in the priesthood, in its keys, power, and authority.  One cannot dismiss these without dismissing the truthfulness of the Church.
    What would be more accurate is to say that Christ recognizes the good in individuals, regardless of who or where they are, and regardless of their current understanding regarding priesthood authority or anything else.  And when there is a good person striving to continue doing the best they know how (and more-so, striving to improve), of course they will occasionally feel the promptings of the Holy Ghost.  But it's not the unauthorized ordinance being accepted - it's the sincere intent of the participant which is accepted.  (And yes, there's a big difference.)
  6. Like
    person0 got a reaction from The Folk Prophet in Receiving the Sacrament in another church   
    If Christ were to actually participate in the communion of a church that did not have the proper authority, he would be acting in political correctness rather than love and respect.  Likewise, those of us who are members of the Church gain nothing from participating, except polite appeasement.  Do we have a problem when people don't take the sacrament in our church?
    Pretend you were a member of a local protestant congregation and Christ visited your church and participated in the communion.  Immediately you as the member of that congregation would interpret that the ordinances in which you were participating were correct and valid.  The same would happen as a Latter-Day Saint, I would be immediately convinced that my religious beliefs had been substantiated by His act of participation.  If this were to occur in an unauthorized and non-authoritative church then the result of Christ's action would be to lead people away from him to a sense of security in their incorrect beliefs and practices.  Christ will never do anything that will lead people away, except allowing by their own agency.
    I would say, more likely, Christ may attend the service and intentionally not participate in the communion. This would allow for those who have 'ears to hear' (or eyes to see) to ask Him why.  He would then lovingly rebuke them and instruct them that the ordinance was false and that if they will follow Him, He will lead them and instruct them in the truth.
  7. Like
    person0 got a reaction from dahlia in What's your impressive food or drinks   
    My ancestor once tried some fruit from the Tree of Knowledge, I hear it's delicious but have not yet tried it myself.  
  8. Like
    person0 got a reaction from seashmore in Can't stop thinking about a sister in my ward.   
    I agree that he should not tell his wife the complete specific nature of what is happening, nor at this point should he bring up the specific person that is bothering him.  However, I strongly disagree that confiding in his wife that he is being plagued with sexual thoughts/temptations in general is an incorrect course of action.  If his wife is so spiritually or emotionally feeble that she can't be there as a help meet for him through general temptations that affect men everywhere all the time, then I'm not sure I have much hope that he would have the personal motivation to stop what he's doing at all (except for personal worthiness).
    If he can't lean to or rely on his wife to want to be there as a support to help keep him a strong and worthy priesthood holder, and can't trust her to be capable of handling a simple truth of life (that guys are attacked with temptations of women all of the time), then he has some serious relationship issues that need to be addressed in addition to stopping what he's doing.  He said things in his marriage are boring, not that they are bad.  If his attraction to this other women becomes problematic enough and he cant stop thinking about her, his wife may eventually have to know all the details so they can get special permission to attend a different ward, that would be so much worse than her knowing a tiny piece of it right now and being there to help him focus.  Discussing a generic concept with his wife should not cause a problem, unless there is a worse problem already there.
    This is something so common that once he has a plan he should be able to tell his wife nonchalantly, "Honey, I've been having a lot of bad thoughts bothering me from time to time recently.  I'm so grateful that the Lord has blessed me with you in my life; I can just put you right into all those bad thoughts and make them real good!"   A nice follow up could be,"You want to know what I've thought about doing with you today?"    If he actually does something like this, not only is it open and honest with his spouse, but it also opens the door for an easier transference of those fantasies to his wife, and her possibly even coming home expecting him to talk to her about his fantastical thoughts.  Sorry for the rant, but I'm a big believer in as much spousal communication as can be reasonably achieved.
  9. Like
    person0 reacted to Vort in what consequence is there if I tell?   
    Sounds pretty messed up. I will withhold judgment until I hear from Brother Creepy, which probably won't be forthcoming. Do your thing, be kind to them, and otherwise just keep being a good person. If he really is the creep you make him out to be, he will suffer bitterly excruciating pain from his actions -- but not with you. Maybe he really is flirting with you, but only in a callow or even unconscious way, and with no intention of doing anything. Hopefully, in such a case, he will repent before doing serious or irreparable harm to his marriage, family, and self. Or maybe it is just a bizarre misunderstanding. In any case, until his actions become more overt or hers more aggressive, I think your best bet is to just play it cool, assume the best (until you're sure such charitable feelings are unjustified), and continue on your way.
  10. Like
    person0 got a reaction from Fether in Receiving the Sacrament in another church   
    Are you thinking of the same Christ who said this about other churches?
  11. Like
    person0 got a reaction from Fether in Receiving the Sacrament in another church   
    If Christ were to actually participate in the communion of a church that did not have the proper authority, he would be acting in political correctness rather than love and respect.  Likewise, those of us who are members of the Church gain nothing from participating, except polite appeasement.  Do we have a problem when people don't take the sacrament in our church?
    Pretend you were a member of a local protestant congregation and Christ visited your church and participated in the communion.  Immediately you as the member of that congregation would interpret that the ordinances in which you were participating were correct and valid.  The same would happen as a Latter-Day Saint, I would be immediately convinced that my religious beliefs had been substantiated by His act of participation.  If this were to occur in an unauthorized and non-authoritative church then the result of Christ's action would be to lead people away from him to a sense of security in their incorrect beliefs and practices.  Christ will never do anything that will lead people away, except allowing by their own agency.
    I would say, more likely, Christ may attend the service and intentionally not participate in the communion. This would allow for those who have 'ears to hear' (or eyes to see) to ask Him why.  He would then lovingly rebuke them and instruct them that the ordinance was false and that if they will follow Him, He will lead them and instruct them in the truth.
  12. Like
    person0 got a reaction from Vort in Receiving the Sacrament in another church   
    Are you thinking of the same Christ who said this about other churches?
  13. Like
    person0 got a reaction from zil in Receiving the Sacrament in another church   
    Are you thinking of the same Christ who said this about other churches?
  14. Like
    person0 got a reaction from meadowlark in Harassment with being Child-Free   
    I like what @zil said about just not giving a reason for why.  I think people are wrong to treat you differently or to be cruel to you in any way because of your decision.  That being said, I also believe that your decision is wrong.  As you pointed out, it is against the teachings of the Church, and the commandments of God.
    I'm sure you are likely well familiarized with this topic and will leave it to the single quote.
    My wife and I are unable to bear our own children.  As a result, it is hard for me to have any sympathy for you, because I know we would do almost anything if it meant she would be able to bear children.  My wife can definitely empathize with you; she has always received a similar, albeit slightly different, form of ousting among the women at church.  Most of the women seem to only talk about their children, and even now that we have adopted children, they all talk about giving birth and taking care of babies and she is still left out of the conversations.
    People are flawed and make mistakes.  I believe it was a mistake in the first place to make the decision to not have children, if you have a healthy, capable, body that would function to do so.  It is also a mistake for people to treat you unkindly,or to harass you as a result.  I don't think you will ever escape it until you are aged beyond the years where you would be expected to have children in your home (even then only possibly), because people everywhere mess things up.  I do sincerely hope that you find something that works to help lessen the backlash, but I think you will find few in the church who will condone your decision.
  15. Like
    person0 reacted to Vort in Receiving the Sacrament in another church   
    Can you picture Jesus Christ taking a Catholic communion? Can you picture Thomas Monson doing so? Your stake president? (Ignore for the moment the fact that wine is used. That is irrelevant.)
    I cannot honestly picture such a thing. Oh, I can imagine it, the way I can imagine that God is actually sadistic and evil. But I cannot view it as a reasonable possibility.
    I don't believe that Catholics are evil or even "wrong" to partake of their sacrament. But that sacrament is intended to mean something, and what it means is contrary to the assertions of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
  16. Like
    person0 got a reaction from Vort in Receiving the Sacrament in another church   
    I agree with you, but there is no rule explicitly to not do it.
    Anecdotally, we all participate in false priesthood 'ceremonies' all the time; have you read Leaders to Managers: The Fatal Shift by Hugh Nibley?  
    Hey, I just looked it up. . . I always though that other church's did communion just as a thing they do, not really a big deal, because I went to a service once and that's basically how it seemed to me, and because of how rarely they did it.  Also, I imagined someone being passed the tray and taking it just to be polite (which is still not the best course of action).  Just found the Methodist communion FAQ page.  Looks like if a member of the Church were to participate they would be going out of their way to engage in said activity:
    If one must go out of their way and present themselves to participate in a false ordinance and do so, then they are doing something inappropriate, if not flat out wrong.
  17. Like
    person0 reacted to Rob Osborn in Why Feminism is Bad   
    Yes, we can nurture, be compassionate, etc. But are we women? No. As a man I have skills, abilities and callings that women will never have. Equality doesnt mean both sexes share everything alike. Equality means both sexes are equally important in their different yet supportive roles of the other.
  18. Like
    person0 got a reaction from Just_A_Guy in Receiving the Sacrament in another church   
    I agree with you, but there is no rule explicitly to not do it.
    Anecdotally, we all participate in false priesthood 'ceremonies' all the time; have you read Leaders to Managers: The Fatal Shift by Hugh Nibley?  
    Hey, I just looked it up. . . I always though that other church's did communion just as a thing they do, not really a big deal, because I went to a service once and that's basically how it seemed to me, and because of how rarely they did it.  Also, I imagined someone being passed the tray and taking it just to be polite (which is still not the best course of action).  Just found the Methodist communion FAQ page.  Looks like if a member of the Church were to participate they would be going out of their way to engage in said activity:
    If one must go out of their way and present themselves to participate in a false ordinance and do so, then they are doing something inappropriate, if not flat out wrong.
  19. Like
    person0 got a reaction from Sunday21 in Can't stop thinking about a sister in my ward.   
    At first I was going to tell you to just marry her and then enjoy a sexual relationship with her, because that would be better than eventually falling into sin. . . but then you wrote almost at the very end that you are already married.    Sexual thoughts happen from time to time, try to ignore them and move on.  You are fantasizing about your thoughts which is not going to help you, ever!  It is also telling that you waited until the end to state that you were married.  You need to stop playing these little 'games' immediately.  Try to find ways to serve your wife, that will strengthen your love for her.  Also, feel free to explain to your wife that you are being plagued with sexual thoughts about other women and are working to rid them from your mind (you don't have to tell her the specific person/people).  Between service and open, honest communication, you could take your relationship to a whole new level.  For all you know, serving her could turn her on by her feeling more loved and close to you; open communication would lead to trust and closeness leading to more turn on.  Hmm. . .  wife turned on = happy happy fun times!  You won't know unless you try!  
  20. Like
    person0 got a reaction from zil in Garment Concerns/Questions   
    God's symbolism, Christ's body (he paid for it, remember), your covenant.
    The fact that she deals with mental health issues is a factor she should discuss with her priesthood leaders and competent medical professionals as it relates to wearing the garment.  In relation to the discussion at hand, the fact that she purchased the garments and has agency over her body is false conjecture.
  21. Like
    person0 got a reaction from LDS0617 in Receiving the Sacrament in another church   
    There generally would not be a problem in participating (except for what @DoctorLemon noted).  However, just as someone who takes the sacrament at our church without being baptized does so with no benefit, there would be no spiritual advantage to take the sacrament with another religious institution.  When we partake of the sacrament we renew the covenant we make at baptism to follow Christ.  Those who bless it have authority to do so.  From a doctrinal perspective (no offense intended), the sacrament at any other institution would just be plain bread and water as those who prepared and prayed over it would not have the proper authority to do so.
  22. Like
    person0 reacted to Vort in Receiving the Sacrament in another church   
    I disagree with the common wisdom so far displayed. I think a Latter-day Saint has no business partaking of the sacred emblems of a false priesthood -- sacred to those who believe and follow that false priesthood, that is. It is the rough equivalent of offering a sacrifice on the altar of another religion.
  23. Like
    person0 got a reaction from Backroads in Garment Concerns/Questions   
    God's symbolism, Christ's body (he paid for it, remember), your covenant.
    The fact that she deals with mental health issues is a factor she should discuss with her priesthood leaders and competent medical professionals as it relates to wearing the garment.  In relation to the discussion at hand, the fact that she purchased the garments and has agency over her body is false conjecture.
  24. Like
    person0 got a reaction from Just_A_Guy in Garment Concerns/Questions   
    God's symbolism, Christ's body (he paid for it, remember), your covenant.
    The fact that she deals with mental health issues is a factor she should discuss with her priesthood leaders and competent medical professionals as it relates to wearing the garment.  In relation to the discussion at hand, the fact that she purchased the garments and has agency over her body is false conjecture.
  25. Like
    person0 reacted to The Folk Prophet in Garment Concerns/Questions   
    Maybe you should have lead with this information.