Lostboy289

Haha, I never turn down I've cream. She didn't promise to marry me or anything (though we have talked about it and said we thought it was going there), but sticking by me literally while I was in the thick of this shouldn't have been unreasonable. That's atleast how I interpreted the promise. This is the girl who only a month ago cancelled her mission a week before she was about to leave because she was in love with me (NOT my idea). I just wonder why we even make promises in the first place if we are free to abandon them the second they don't suit us.

To be fair she didn't want to do it this way. I had just been feeling a bit overwhelmed by all that I had been going through (including this thread) and mentioned that I'm having a hard time "keeping up appearances" and being the strong YSA leader guy who has it all figured out that I ususally am. When she said it was ok to not always be confident and strong I asked her if she thought any less of me as a boyfriend and husband material. Then she admitted to me that she was going to tell me when I got back, but she wants to break up. I wouldn't have been so devastated by this if this weren't literally one week after I lost my military assignment, was feeling really down about all I've been through in the past 2 years, and she promised me that regardless of what happened with my job, she would stick by me and help me through this, and I wouldn't have to worry about losing her at all. I just don't get why big promises are ok to throw out like that so soon and with no preamble. What is the point of making promises at all?

Hey guys, I'm going to take a break from this thread. In an ironic twist of fate, my girlfriend broke up with me today through a text. It was very sudden and unexpected, we had never even had so much as a disagreement before, and this was only week after the night I lost my job assignment and she promised me that shed stick by me and support me during this difficult time. You all know where I stand, and while I have been enlightened by the different opinions I mostly still stand by my own. I'm sorry for any of those I have offended in the process.

Its not the guy thats less ideal, just less of an idealistic way for this to all work out.

What makes it right exactly? Eternal marriage is right. But this isn't a marriage. This is just one of a million possibilities available. And because an insistence on this specific possibility, you dragged your friend down into a pitt of suffering. Which is wrong. Which even if it does lead to a right (in this case a marriage), is no different from saying "the ends justify the means".

Couldn't she have found happiness with her original boyfriend if his friend hadn't lured her away? Or less ideally but still prefferable unrelated fourth party who isn't the guy or his friend?

So where is the love in this? You hurt your children's feelings when necessary because it is ultimately for the benefit of their well being. Although even in that case it can be taken to unrealistic extremes when the suffering you impose is greater than the lesson learned. Who is benefiting when you run of with your friend's girlfriend. Him, or mostly just you?

No, but how are those being demonstrated when you see the suffering you cause your brother as an acceptable cost for a relationship with a specific woman? Fair point. Thank you. You didn't?

Well everyone here seems to be a pretty big advocate for the former. Or at the very least see it as an acceptable consequence of gaining that which you desire. There is a huge difference between accidentally hurting someone while going through your life (and being given the chance to make it right) and going into a situation knowing you are going to hurt a friend, and pressing ahead with it anyways. 28Now one of the scribes had come up and heard their debate. Noticing how well Jesus had answered them, he asked Him, “Which commandment is the most important of all?” 29Jesus replied, “This is the most important: ‘Hear O Israel, the Lord our God is One Lord, 30and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength. 31The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ No other commandment is greater than these.” Making a pass at your friend's girlfriend or fiancé, or running off with her and leaving your friend in the dust is pretty clearly a violation off that.

The Lord tells us to be kind, considerate, charitable, and empathetic This situation is the exact opposite of this, so yes. Its a sin. Honestly yes I do. And the more responses I get, unfortunately the more I see that it is much more far off than I thought. Sexual relationship is irrelevant here. A complete lack of respect for a relationship or engagement is bad enough. But this also demonstrates a complete lack of respect for the bonds of friendship. Or even the complete lack of respect for anyone's feelings outside of your own. Apparently Jesus was the first "snowflake millenial" as you have so patronizingly stated.

I know that you will never receive a spiritual prompting to sin, so yes, I do know that either they did not receive that revelation, or they severely misinterpreted it. How "spiritual promptings" are simply us looking for permission to do what we simply desire strongly, and twisting whatever revelation we get (if any) to simply try and align the Lord's will with our own? It shouldn't be an issue, since for most Non-Mormons, this is universally considered wrong and therefore isn't an issue.

No, not at all. Read more carefully. But in the case of a Girl leaving a guy for his friend, and the friend going along with it, than yes, absolutely. A girl can break up with a guy for whatever reason she desires. (assuming there wasn't any prior cheating involved). But the third guy doesn't have to go along with it. Especially when he is friends with the guy on the receiving end of this treatment.

They are the same thing when deceit and callousness is involved. And the guy used his agency to hurt a friend. In this case agency was involved, and it was used to hurt someone. Our lives can be ruined for a time. We may eventually move on, even if we are never really the same. Sometimes the effects are more permanent. I had to change jobs and bases since I went to mental health to vent and they decided due to the stress that I wasn't a good fit anymore for a flying job. Also my elderly dad's health has gone seriously downhill seeing his son suffer.

That's not the Lord's will. Just people seeing what they want to see. If the Lord tells you to go around your friends back and date that specific girl, you should probably reevaluate how you are interpreting the answer to your prayer. Il admit that the girl may get revelation that Guy A is not the guy for her, but he will never ever tell Guy B to destroy a friend to get what he desires. Church leadership has spoken completely contrary to this practice. ANY worthy man and woman can form a union. There isn't just one person for us.

Or more that Guy B should stay clear and not interfere with his friend's relationship or feelings or else he would be wrong, wrong, so very very wrong.

But the thing is, we do have a sphere of influence here. We have complete influence on the feelings of our friends and S.Os. Even more so than we probably want at times. In this case it seems that a lot of us are turning a blind eye to the fact that our Sphere of Concern can often be smaller than our Sphere of Influence, justifying that we are not responsible for how our actions affect others, when we absolutely are.

You are correct in that forgiveness is going to a huge part of this process. However the onus should not simply be on the injured party to forgive. It is expected yes, but that doesn't absolve us from all blame in whatever we choose to do to one another. You are correct in saying that this is a different situation. In this case neither of you was attached to either girl, and both of you agreed. Ive been in this situation myself a few times and there usually aren't too strong feelings involved. I expect if your friend and Girl A had been engaged instead of just attracted to her, and if he had been in love with her and not taken kindly to another man asking her out, I expect this would have been a very different conversation. Frankly, I would have expected to get punched. There may not seem like much difference between "attracted" and "engaged" in a culture that sees married/single as a simply binary rather than levels, but IMO the situation makes a world of difference. I think we just disagree over what the right thing is. Personally, I don't think it is right to break your promises regardless of how much of a drag they are to keep. That there is nothing at all unfair about being responsible for your word to other people.

Your post was all very reasonable and thought out except for this part. I disagree 100%. I refuse to believe that showing this amount of disrespect for a friend and his relationship is in any way less than morally wrong, and a sin in the most basic way. Honesty about our callousness does not justify it. Jesus told us to Love God and Love one Another, and to keep those commandments above all others. If we can't even put aside our own desires to show compassion towards our brothers, then why the hell are we even here? We edify ourselves through our love and sacrifice for others, not in attaining that which we covet, regardless of how righteous those ends may be.

When that possibility is one out of a million possibilities to the same exact eternal happiness, than yes, choosing the one path that involves betrayal of a friend and hurting him at a very hard time in his life is not merited. This seems extremely close to "ends justify the means".

And see, that's all it is. Just a possibility. No possibility for your happiness is worth definitely hurting someone. Especially when there are millions of other good candidates. This is madness, and you are correct. No rational comparison can be made.

No, its that friends shouldn't be allowed to date that specific person. There are plenty of other people they could pursue a relationship with, it doesn't have to be that specific person. It may annoy you that your romantic options are limited by one person, but it doesn't compare to the suffering your recently dumped friend is going through. And adding to it is just kicking them while they're down. Why is that reason not good enough? We are all here in the first place because we believe in the holiness and eternal truth of a man who taught us above all else, love one another. The friend doesn't have power over you any more than the person that holds the door open for you has in forcing you to say "thank you". Hes not forcing you or even asking you to say it. Its just rude not to. And you really think that time and place is when you decide you are attracted to your friend's girlfriend?

Its not that they belong to you. Its not really even about the girl. (or guy. I don't know why we keep using a girl as an example) Its more that these things are painful under the best circumstances, and you are showing respect for your friends feelings by not adding to his pain. This applies even more so if you are the reason the relationship ended. In that case you are deliberately causing suffering in another person who you call a friend just to get something you want.

And in your example, how would Person A leave Person B for Person C if her and Person C weren't in some way cultivating that relationship beforehand? How would they even know that the feelings are reciprocated if there wasn't some kind of discussion about it? Especially if Person A and Person C were close friends, that's cold. And frankly, regardless of relationships working out or not, its weird for a friend to show so little concern for his friend's feelings just because he wants his friend's girl.

Who, non-Mormon or otherwise, has ever planned out exactly how long a relationship will last? In the non-Mormon world, if Guy and Girl Break up and Guy's Friend feels attracted to Girl, its usually seen as inconsiderate to his friend to start dating Girl. There's a bit of room to work with though. Its generally considered good form to atleast see how the Guy feels about it first. However what is definitely not ok is if Guy and Girl have been going steady for awhile and are starting to think about marriage, Guy's Friend comes along and decides he likes her too and begins trying to woo her away from Guy behind his back. Girl eventually dumps first Guy to date his Friend. That's a hard and fast "wrong" for non-Mormons and I'm really surprised to see its ok here, considering they also seem like pretty logical extensions of integrity, loyalty, and kindness. I understand that a celestial marriage is the most important covenant we can enter into. More important than friendship. But where I see that argument fall apart is that while you are dating her or attempting to do so, she isn't your eternal companion. She is simply a girl you are interested in. And when the church teaches us that literally any worthy Brother and Sister can form an eternal marriage, there is no point other than selfishness in insisting that woman be someone that your friend has already chosen as his. President Monson isn't the only one who can give a talk during conference first off. Secondly; yea, those words work pretty well for me. This is a much larger debate. However overall I tend to come down on the side that whenever a rule is made, more always follow it than before it was made, regardless of how unpopular that rule is.

So just so I'm clear, when my girlfriend asked me to be her boyfriend and date me exclusively, what did I agree to? I guess is it too much to ask for the best of both worlds? An eternal marriage and all the benefits we talk about, started with a healthy relationship with a certain level of expected fidelity, trust, commitment, and stability that increases over time? I'm not saying that the non-Mormon dating culture is perfect, because it definitely isn't. Theres a lot of messed up things about it, sex included (though it isn't the hedonistic Calligua you'd think it to be). Though to its credit, it does show a lot more respect towards the fidelity and commitments that come in stages before marriage. Dating your friend's ex is a whole other kind of situation that varies from case to case. But if we are still talking about your friend's GF or Fiance, the question is never. Never ever. If you sense a budding attraction or flirtation, the general etiquette us to distance yourself from the situation.