clbent04

If we replaced faith in Jesus Christ with faith in "ideals of love, compassion, forgiveness...", would that have any impact on our salvation? Do we need to specifically acknowledge the name Jesus Christ? If it does have an impact on our salvation, why would that be the case? What would be so important in specifically acknowledging the name Jesus Christ in the good that we do? Why would this have any significant bearing at all in regards to our eternal welfare? What if the name Jesus Christ is meant to be used interchangeably with love, compassion, forgiveness... What if God sees the world and its many faiths and walks of life very differently from the interpretation I had growing up as a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saint?

In order to have a broken heart and contrite spirit in any context, do you have to acknowledge Jesus Christ?

Growing up in the LDS Church I recall members reacting defensively to the statement that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is not a Christian church. Does the Church try to position itself as a Christian church or is this more of a cultural thing? Considering the many atrocities that have been conducted under the banner of Christianity, should the Church even want to position itself as such? Maybe it's just a matter of semantics, but I recently heard someone share how they don't want to be associated with Christianity, but they are a follower of Jesus.

I've been thinking about this question the last several months. Is faith in Jesus Christ more important for our salvation than the condition of our hearts? If it is more important, why do you think it is besides your belief that God said so? One of my thoughts is that the condition of the heart is more important for our salvation since I believe Jesus is all things related to truth and light, and that we don't truly improve unless it's through Him regardless of how much we believe in a God named Jesus Christ. If the answer is some of us will be saved and others perish based on being able to name the correct God where credit is due absent of the condition of our hearts, what is the logical basis for that? Here's what Chat GPT has to say about the matter: Is faith in Jesus Christ more important for our salvation than the condition of our hearts?

I can't imagine anyone not feeling perplexed at least to some degree when thinking about how Jesus Christ's role and the Atonement relate to all things physical and spiritual, how He is at the center connecting us back to God, how the concept of sin and spiritual laws can actually be put into effect by God, and trying to make sense of the literal power source of how any of it can be effectuated. Can anyone else out there relate to feeling perplexed in this regard? I want to develop my relationship with my Savior, and these perplexing thoughts sometimes act as a hindrance to that desire. A friend recently told me something I like. She said pray for faith, not for clarity. She defines faith as accepting God's will and clarity as wanting answers. I am more content when I focus on faith and probably just need to hit the brakes on wanting clarity. I do want some clarity to at least help define what it is I believe in, and God has given me a few sweet moments of clarity. I'm grateful for those moments as they've helped keep me centered. Perhaps me going through this process is God's way of teaching me to have patience. I'm left to admit 1.) I know very little, and 2.) accepting God's will means being content with where I am.

I don't think church callings are a factor at all to our salvation. But I do think a lot of the GA's have figured things out that the average church member will eventually need to figure out specifically with being more in tune to the Spirit.

I was reading the biographies of some recently called Area 70 leaders and started thinking to myself my gosh look how successful and how many kids they all have which immediately made me question if I was doing a good enough job since I've been divorced and only have 1 child, but then I discovered on the same page where I was reading the biographies some reassuring advice from Elder Ballard. My takeaway reading Elder's Ballard's advice is no matter how many kids we have or if we don't have any at all or if we are single, married or divorced, we are all equally valuable and can serve in pretty much all of the leadership positions that anyone else can, and that even if a strong, statistical argument can be made that the Church only calls people to leadership positions who have at least 4 children and married, it's official position is it does not! Lol. The official position is reassuring to me. We are all equally valuable no matter if someone else might appear to be further ahead of us. Article from Elder Ballard copied and pasted below: https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/april-2021-general-conference-leadership-meeting President M. Russell Ballard, Acting President of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles President Ballard said that more than half of adult Latter-day Saints are widowed, divorced or have never married. “Some wonder about their opportunities and place in the eternal plan and in the Savior’s Church,” he said. “We remind all that eternal life is not simply a question of current marital status but of discipleship, that is, being ‘valiant in the testimony of Jesus’ (Doctrine and Covenants 76:79).” As was announced in an update to the General Handbook on March 31, 2021, President Ballard said that singles in the Church now have more ways to serve in their congregations around the globe. “Marital status has nothing to do with one’s capacity to serve and bless the lives of others. The Lord honors those who wait upon Him in patience and faith,” President Ballard said. “We can do better at providing opportunities for our single members to serve. I am not talking about creating service projects, although those are important. I am talking about giving them significant callings, including leadership callings. Single members are just as capable as married members. There are only a few callings, such as stake president and bishop, that are specified only for married members. The restriction of having only married men serve as counselors in bishoprics and stake presidencies in young single adult wards and stakes has been removed.” These prior restrictions existed only in single adult and young single adult wards and stakes. In all other congregations, there were no such limitations. “Don’t worry about their age either,” he added. “I am 92. I am glad I was not released from my calling as Acting President of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles because of my age or at the death of my wife. I love my Savior Jesus Christ, and I love helping to build up His Church. Most members feel the same way. This gives us hope in Christ and a feeling of belonging.” The Apostle also shared five doctrinal assurances that Church leaders can use to help single adults in their midst. 1. “The scriptures and declarations of latter-day prophets confirm that every person who is faithful in the gospel covenant will have the opportunity for exaltation.” 2. “The precise times and manner in which the blessings of exaltation are bestowed upon every faithful person have not all been revealed, but they are nonetheless assured.” 3. “Waiting upon the Lord implies continued obedience and spiritual progress.” 4. “God offers eternal life to all of His children. All those who accept the Lord Jesus Christ’s gracious gift of repentance and strive to be obedient to His commandments will qualify for eternal life.” 5. “Our confidence in these assurances is rooted in our faith in Jesus Christ by whose grace all things pertaining to mortality are set right.”

I stopped making requests in prayer a couple years ago. At this point in my life, it's a pointless exercise (for me). We are in God's hands and hard experiences will continue happening regardless if we try to pray away those hard experiences. We are at God's mercy. Instead of making requests, I simply express gratitude. My prayers that only express gratitude to God are much more sincere and meaningful. With that said, I think God wants us to ask Him for things especially when it comes to the building of His Kingdom. "Please God help me find one person today I can help." I think that's a request God will always grant when it's said in prayer sincerely. The tricky part about prayer is there's various levels to it depending on our spirituality. For example, giving gratitude is easy. If we aren't super strong in spiritual matters (like me), then that's a good place to start, whereas asking for specific things requires a greater spiritual acuity. When you ask for something, I believe it has to be in line with God's will in order for Him to use His power to effectuate it, and knowing what specifically God wants when it comes to my Uncle surviving cancer or dying from it requires a higher level of spirituality to discern. If you're not there yet, don't beat yourself up about it. Neither am I. I'm happy just giving thanks for now, but I keep my eye on growing spiritually and learning how to discern the promptings of the Spirit. I believe this can be achieved by living more obediently to the gospel.

Lol yeah I actually just listened to his recent GC talk through the LDS Library app after seeing him for the first time in Stake Conference this last weekend. After getting a chance to listen to his GC talk, it clicked into place how I was observing these 2 GA’s rely on the Spirit in a way I hadn’t observed in person before when it comes to Church talks. Even before listening the Elder Cook’s GA talk, it was obvious to me in Stake Conference that they weren’t following everyday protocol with what you’d expect from the average Church talk. They really were exceptional in their preparation for this Stake Conference weekend and how they taught the Stake how to rely on the Spirit for guidance.

I am. They both did excellent on their talks being guided by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. I don’t think either had any much prepared material beforehand the way Elder Holmes perfectly summarized and complimented all the 3 talks before his and the way Elder Cook interacted with the congregation. Really something to see them rely on the Holy Spirit that way. They just channeled as much love and compassion as they possibly could into our Stake. It impressed me and I’ve been thinking about it since.

Congrats to your son! Great announcement. I'm sure you must be proud. This was my mission. I served in Bend, Madras, Eugene, and Springfield back when Oregon only had 2 missions (top half Portland, bottom half Eugene). Looks like there's at least 3 now. He's going to love it. Oregon is a wonderful state.

@LDSGator would you say general LDS views of the Catholic church are unfair? No comment is fine too. I know it's had its share of challenges just like many other churches, but I think it's put more good into the world than anything negative. General worldwide perception of the Catholic church seems favorable as it's one of the largest if not the largest religious organization in the world.

Latter-day Saints have a more favorable view of Catholics (+53) than mainline Protestants (+51)? What's all that talk of the Catholic church being considered the Great and Abominable Church in the scriptures? Is that just a popularized, baseless rumor in the Church? I thought that was popular opinion since I heard it multiple times in one way or another over the years.

Never heard this before but I like it. Well said. I do value discussing semantics as I see it as a worthwhile practice that helps us communicate more truly. As far as the 2 etymology personality types you outlined, I'd be in the second category, although James E. Talmage's Jesus the Christ has inspired me more than anything else I've come across in valuing etymology.

This is a similar thought process I went down when initially reflecting upon the quote. I thought to myself when creating my avatar/icon of how it would be simpler perhaps for me and others to bypass the semantic discussion of "act" and replace it with "do" to more clearly convey upfront why I like the quote and have less ambiguity to its meaning, but to think I'd get out of that semantic discussion was silly of me. This is ThirdHour. Lol. I will say since joining this forum it's helped develop me to communicate more precisely and accurately with what I'm trying to say.

I don’t have a good technical answer. They sound the same to me. I don’t like “act” or “play” because either could be interpreted as “pretend,” whereas “do” focuses more on the actions you are in control of, not something you’re merely trying to feign.

Thanks @NeuroTypical! And regarding the quote, I knowingly did tweak it to “do.” I think it’s more comprehensible off the bat with the operative verb being changed from “act” to “do”, at least in the way of how I like to apply the expression. Main reason I like that quote so much is it speaks to me of God’s love for all His children, and no matter what hand of cards you were dealt in this life, no matter which religion/beliefs you claimed, where you lived…, we all matter and have purposeful jobs to do, and in the end I think it matters more of what we did with what we were given rather than what religion we claimed. That’s not to downplay or be dismissive of the gospel. There will come a time of reconciliation to unify all of us.

I didn’t bring up temple ordinances. I probably could have talked with them for 5 more hours, but the 1 hour we did share was well spent. As far as the Doctrine and Covenants, there’s a lot of good passages there, and I like reading about the unique doctrine you can’t find anywhere else, although I have to be careful going forward that I don’t let what I don’t understand consume me to the point it inhibits my spirituality such as the three kingdoms of glory and polygamy.

It was a great visit. The GA and a member of the Stake Presidency came to visit me. We strongly felt the Holy Spirit, and it's been a long time since I felt it that powerfully. They shared a lot of love with me and it was moving. I feel grateful they selflessly took time out of their lives to visit me. I believe the visit was meant to be. It even worked out to where we had the house to ourselves since I didn't have my 6-year old daughter with me like I usually would since she was at her friend's birthday party with her Mom. Personal experiences, stories and advice were shared in response to my doubts about the Book of Mormon, and as the point was stressed to keep trying, I brought up how I was concerned I might talk myself into a testimony of the Book of Mormon versus accepting it based on truth. The Holy Spirit most strongly manifested itself to me when the GA shared how he had been praying earlier this morning to help even just one person today, and how this meeting was meant to be, and how his assignment to visit my area had been assigned by Elder Ballard. I received a distinct impression as he was sharing all this that it was true and had been orchestrated by God and the Holy Spirit. I plan to stay in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and I will continue trying to develop within it. I can't deny how powerfully the Holy Spirit manifested itself to me. I still have many questions and maybe some will remain a mystery to me till after this mortal existence, but the important thing is I feel like God blessed me today to get over my hurdle of uneasiness about the Church with all the mounting questions and skepticism I had about it. I know I have a lot to learn, and even though I'm a slow learner, I'm hopeful to bring others unto Jesus Christ by sharing the kind of love that was shared with me today. I'm taking a new approach starting today. When it comes to the Church, I'm not going to fixate on the things I don't understand. I will focus on the things I do understand and allow God to fill in the rest in due course.

Woohoo! Thanks, @pam! Feeling as light as a feather over here!

My 6-year old daughter and I went to the KC Royals practice training fields this last Saturday in Surprise, Arizona, for an Easter egg hunt. They did the event on the training fields.

I thinking hard here trying to relate my post of Dizzy Gillespie, to your subsequent post of a seemingly random video of three latinas dancing and singing, to your comment here.... Do they all connect somehow or am I overthinking it? Are the latinas dancing to Moroni's trumpet?

I appreciate the time and everything you put into this post @askandanswer as well as everything @Carborendum said in his earlier post. Thank you both. I have put in a lot of effort in my endeavor to draw closer to God. I can proudly say I'm closer to Him at this point in my life than I ever have been. I see Him working with me and molding me into a better version of myself maybe not everyday, but in an overall positive trajectory as I reflect on my years. I've wrestled with the Book of Mormon my entire life starting back when I was a teenager. Now I'm 36, and I've realized that for many years I was overly consumed in trying to receive an answer of the truthfulness of Book of Mormon to the point it inhibited my spiritual growth. I became bogged down in trying to get an answer to where it partially made me lose focus on what really matters: my relationship with God. I think everyone has the potential to get overly consumed with the religious side of things to the point spiritual matters lose focus. At least it did in my experience. My opinion now is if the Book of Mormon draws you closer to Christ, that's wonderful. Eat it up. But if it doesn't, if you're someone like me who has better luck centering themselves on our Redeemer with the Bible, then read the Bible. Do what works for you. Even if I decide to stay in the Church for the many reasons I like it, the Church's own position agrees with my belief that I don't have to accept the Book of Mormon to be saved. I only have to accept Jesus Christ as is the condition for all of us. But there's problems with someone like me in my position. I wouldn't feel it would be appropriate to accept a Church calling where I was expected to share beliefs about the Book of Mormon, and my skepticism of temple ordinances also puts a roadblock in my potential growth within the Church. I could be happy being the Building Security guy the rest of my life, but I'm just not sure if that's the position I want to take when I might be able to flourish more so in a non-denominal or Protestant Christian church. But then again, I have a soft spot for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and its members. It's a good organization. The good news is, we are all brothers and sisters, and God is mindful of each and every one of us. He knows our hearts. He knows my heart. He knows I'm doing the best I can, just like most people are with the limited information we have. We're still brothers and sisters regardless of who does and doesn't embrace the Book of Mormon, and Jesus' grace is great enough for all of us. Am I concerned about having to look up and wave to all you guys from second deck (the Terrestrial Kingdom)? I used to be. It used to consume me with how intently I focused on getting to the Celestial Kingdom. But that doesn't consume me anymore as my beliefs have evolved to a more healthy, comprehensive and inclusive view of all mankind. I find peace in thinking about the nature of God and observing how He loves all His children. There's no one on this Earth inside or outside of the Church who has been able to completely shed all of their assumptions and judgments since no one has all the answers and no one is perfect. We are imperfect humans trying to figure things out on planet Earth orbiting the Sun as the galaxy simultaneously orbits a black hole. In the scheme of things, I don't see how us disagreeing on something like the Book of Mormon even matters. If it is true, great, I was wrong, our Savior has already forgiven me for my short-sidedness. If it's false, the same applies to those who were misguided. I believe the true test in the end, what will matter most, are the two greatest commandments, and there's many different routes leading us to be developed in relation to those two commandments.

Que en el mundo, @Vort??

Probably too much so! I think the biggest recent test for the faithful were the COVID vaccinations. Not that they were mandated, but definitely promoted by Church leadership.