Stargater53

Going beyond the mark means going beyond what we have been given both in the scriptures and by the prophets. Since he is going beyond their counsel, he is a hypocrite, and I can say that because he's not my stake president! The church is based on revelation, and each to his own stewardship. A bishop cannot receive revelation for the stake, nor can the stake president receive revelation beyond his own calling. If it were so, some stakes would have board games and others not. The stake president can give counsel regarding what has been taught. The brethren have even stated we should not use playing cards, though I'm unsure what the current thinking is. For recreation, I know of no counsel that's been given about board games. The whole idea behind what the Lord wants us to accomplish is to get to a position where we won't need counsel. Currently, a father can issue counsel for his family. A bishop can give counsel that's in accordance to what the brethren say. Going further or less is missing the mark. No one should ever badmouth an ordained leader, but whether he or she seeks to obey the counsel is their own affair. Clearly, the First Presidency has not issued the counsel the stake president is teaching. If he ever determined to ordain a cat or to declare Saturday the sabbath, he would be extending his reach. The church has a chain of command, so if you aren't happy with counsel that affects you in a way you feel is not appropriate, contact the regional representative.

The reason Satan can't tempt little children is because he lacks the ability to tempt someone who is potentially more evil than himself. Especially two-year olds! (This is from the Teachings of the Prophet Stargater53, which I'm presently compiling!)

Perhaps, but I believe Judas was a son of perdition. First, Jesus said he was a son of perdition. In John 17, he prayed, "While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled." Two, Judas saw the miracles Jesus performed and knew of his identity as the Messiah. And Jesus said, "but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born." Then Judas, which betrayed Him, answered and said, "Master, is it I?" To which Jesus replied, "Thou hast said." (Matthew 26:24-25. That sounds like a son of perdition to me. Some have said that Peter denied Jesus because he didn't have full knowledge of who Jesus was, and though that sounds reasonable on its face, Peter never betrayed Jesus. I can appreciate why some, like Elder McConkie, would want to sympathize with Judas to a degree, but I'm assuming Jesus was familiar with the term "son of perdition," as we are. And Peter also applies the title to the Son of Perdition who will be Gog, the one who attacks Israel during the battle of Armageddon. (See Acts 3:18-21, where Peter calls him, "the man of sin, the son of perdition"). Gog will be a son of perdition because he can read, and he can see the divine warning in Ezekiel 38-39. In the same manner, Judas was warned and forewarned. Yet he betrayed Jesus knowingly. And that's why I think he's a son of perdition.

Gods is a term that can mean many things. Gods can be spirits in the spirit world who are acting as GOD, answering prayers and assisting people in mortality. We too hastily try to pin definitions on things that aren't well understood. The Holy Spirit is a GOD and can speak unquestionably for God because He is God in a very real and literal sense. The three can speak for one another because they are so unalterably one in purpose.

Not predictive, but comprehensive. He was saying that overall, many apostates (generally) will be sons of perdition. Whether he was speaking doctrinally or whether he'd just hit a low spot and was angry, I know not; however, it has been widely quoted. “You cannot save such persons; you cannot bring them to repentance.” (TPJS, p. 358). Said Joseph Fielding Smith, “before a man can sink to this bitterness of soul, he must first know and understand the truth with a clearness of vision wherein there is no doubt.” (Doctrine of Salvation 1:49) I doubt many apostates could reach that level of knowledge, so this is a bit of a contradiction. Still, Joseph Smith stated that a man "has got to deny Jesus Christ when the heavens have been opened unto him, and to deny the plan of salvation with his eyes open to the truth of it.” (TPJS, p.358) And President Spencer Kimball said, “The sin against the Holy Ghost requires such knowledge that it is manifestly impossible for the rank and file to commit such a sin” (The Miracle of Forgiveness, p.123)

Many latter-day saints have asked about these things, and lately I have wondered about it too. First, the Sons of Perdition. A lot of conflicting opinions and quotations. Joseph Smith inferred that to become a Son of Perdition, one would have to essentially reach a state of exaltation and then blow it. Of seeing the sunlight coming through the window and then swearing it wasn't there! But on another occasion he said that many apostates of the church would be sons of perdition, so the quotations seem to be at odds with one another. Since most apostates certainly never reached a state where they would otherwise have reached a state of having their calling and election made sure, could they then be strong candidates for being Sons of Perdition? The next question is even more tricky and it treads on the above. Many of our great prophets at Conference say something that makes me wonder. We are, they say, lucky, greatly privileged, to be living in our day, and some intimate we might very well be the generation that will welcome the returning Messiah. But let's look at the facts: First, most people who have been born into mortality end up dying as infants! This means all of these are guaranteed exaltation in the Celestial Kingdom. They were born, then died, meaning they don't have to undergo the pains of mortality, right?! Then we have those born into mortality during the Millennium. They will live to the age of a hundred, then they will be "twinkled" into a resurrected body of flesh and bones. And because there is no infant mortality, the population will soar during that time. We might even say that most of the people ever born into mortality and lived will be born in the Millennium. Are you beginning to see my point? Based on sheer numbers, it appears that most of God's children ever to be born will gain the Celestial Kingdom! The only ones in the Millennium who will not are those who are deceived by Satan in the last few years and who attack the Holy City in a reboot of the battle of Gog and Magog! And, we're told, their numbers will be as the sand upon the sea shore. In other words, a huge number at the end will be, what? Sons of Perdition?? And whereas the original battle of Gog and Magog at the beginning of the Millennium will be against the city of Jerusalem, I suspect the second battle of Gog and Magog will be against the Holy City of the New Jerusalem! And the Lord will make short work of them as He will Celestialize the entire planet. So what are your thoughts? Are we who are born in this day not quite as good as the majority of people who are born to inherit the Celestial Kingdom? And will most of the people ever to be born worthy of exaltation without the need of being tested? Let me know! And is Gene Simmons a son of perdition??

Ouch! No way should it be removed! " Rock of my soul in the bosom of Abraham, Rock of my soul in the bosom of Abraham, Rock of my soul in the bosom of Abraham, Oh, rock of my soul! And I say, So high, you can't get over it, So low, you can get under it, So wide. you can't get around it, Oh, rock of my soul! The Bible is full of holy men and the hymn, PRAISE TO THE MAN is a perfect way of getting the question out into the open. It's a way of teaching dispensational theology. Seven is the number of completion in the Bible. Lots of people know that. And we have seven dispensations: 1. Adam 2. Enoch 3. Noah 5. Melchizedek/Abraham 6. JESUS CHRIST 7, Joseph Smith Joseph Smith was a dispensation head and as such is due much respect, even as Moses. In Acts 3, the apostle Peter tells the Jews, "...and [God the Father] shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began." In this final dispensation, it was Jesus Christ who appeared to Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery in 1836 and accepted the temple in his name. And Moses and Elijah followed that visitation and restored the keys of the gathering of Israel and the keys of sealing families---the fathers and the sons back through time until the days of Adam, and the sealing of husbands to wives. And these keys will never need to be re-restored again. Joseph Smith also gave the saints a key, he said, that would "never rust," meaning, of course, that it was the sure word of God: If one would 1. follow the majority of the Twelve Apostles and, 2. the records of the church, one would never be led astray. Think of the people who have been misled by the Reorganized Church and the polygamous cults that claim priesthoods they've made up out of nothing. If they just follow the two most important things besides Jesus himself, the keys that are in the hands of the apostles and the records, which are the records of the exercise of those keys, they will never be led astray. If explained thusly to non-members, they can see why we hold Joseph Smith in such high regard. We have never taken Joseph Smith out of his context as a man among other men, warts and all. And like other men, he made mistakes, and it's a good way of explaining some of those mistakes, such as the 116 pages. He was a great man, true, but he was only a man. So I'm for keeping the hymn in, and using it as a teaching opportunity.

No!!!! Don't get me kicked off the board for that! Actually, seriously, you can get any Android or Apple and get a great church library too, but you'll pay a lot more. Kindles are large, easy to read and are inexpensive, largely because they are subsidized by advertisers and by Amazon themselves. So when you buy one of these cheap Kindles, you're getting them at cost or slightly below because Amazon thinks you'll buy movies and other videos. A fifty dollar Kindle won't give you a lot, especially with 16 gbytes, but it will let you read books comfortably. If you can afford getting a better device, go for it. But for the money, it's not a bad deal, especially if you want to get a church library of books you can read anywhere in your house/home. If I could afford an Apple, I'd probably go with one of those. Or a Samsung. But again, Kindle is a good low cost alternative. And if we can put together a list of good books to add our to our libraries, we should do that. Cheers!

I'm sorry, but don't understand. What did you resign from? Your job? Your calling? The church? What? And did the dream make you think you had made the wrong decision? In my research of the early church, I've come to think dreams involving trees can be highly significant. If it was of God, I recommend that you do some prayer and fasting, then ask God that if the dream was of Him, that He repeat it to you with the interpretation. It never hurts to pray for forgiveness, too. One thing I've learned is that God, the Bishop, the missionaries--no one but us--benefits more from our membership and activity in the church. And with the movies and garbage we watch on television and see in movies, it's difficult to gain the Spirit of God and to keep it. In the early days, the people found it easier to get and to keep the Spirit of God because they weren't constantly being assailed by all this filth that we do today.

I know Elder McConkie knew a lot about the scriptures, but not necessarily much about evil spirits. If you want to know what the early brethren taught, get an Amazon Kindle (they're cheap, as of this writing, $50 for one and $90 for two) and then buy the electronic version of Journal of Discourses. This is a very expensive volume if bought in hard copy, but very inexpensive if purchased in electronic form (plus you can do searches). In fact, it's the best way of collecting an enviable church library without spending a lot of money. But if reading these early discourses and writings, treat them like the Apocrypha, with prayer. Remember the early brethren who went to the U.K. to open it up to missionary work? As the incident came to a close, the evil spirits were commanded to depart. In Orson Whitney's account, he wrote: The last imp that left turned around to me as he was going out and said, as if to apologize, and appease my determined opposition to them, ‘I never said anything against you!’ I replied to him thus: ‘It matters not me whether you have or have not; you are a liar from the beginning! In the name of Jesus Christ depart!’ He immediately left, and the room was clear. That closed the scene of devils for the time.” To me this indicates that like anyone, there are those who are zealous in their work and others who are not so zealous. I know nothing about such things, but it seems to me that this imp wanted to remain because he hadn't taken part in the attack but had only been a bystander. But by being a bystander and doing nothing, and because he had made his decision on who to follow in premortality, he had in essence made his decision. Had he followed Yahweh in our premortal existence, he would have fared far better than his associates. Joseph Fielding, who was present during the attack, witnessed the exchange between Elder Hyde and the imp. He wrote: They however kept their distances, but turned their heads toward Bro. Hyde; one looking at him said distinctly, but with a murmuring tone, slowly demure, ‘I never spoke against you.’ He said there seemed to be [a] legion of them. He was alarmed, but very much disgusted. He could scarcely bear to speak of them. Brigham Young said that if our eyes were opened and we could see the evil spirits that were aligned against us, that we would lose heart and be terrified. (He was speaking of those who were on the plains and who opposed them on their westward trek to the mountains of Salt Lake City. And if those of you with Kindles buy a book entitled, Gems For the Young Folks, you will find additional stories.) Brigham also said: The spirits that afflict us and plant disease in our bodies, pain in the system, and finally death, have control over us so far as the flesh is concerned. But when the spirit is unlocked from the body it is free from the power of death and Satan; and when that body comes up again, it also, with the spirit, will gain the victory over death, hell, and the grave. Again, there are many books available from Amazon. In fact, I'm now reading the 1830 version of the Book of Mormon with no verses. It's an incredible experience and it's a way of reading the Book of Mormon as it was read by the earliest converts of the church. They would get the book and read it by candlelight into the wee hours of the morning, and it's available on Amazon. These Kindles (and other tablets, Android and Apple) make great gifts and the larger 8-inch and 10-inch tablets are perfect for reading. And no candlelight required! They're great for movies.

Interesting discussion. But I'm curious about your opening statement. Are you still married to this woman from Peru? And when you said they mixed spiritualism into the gospel, what sort of spiritualism are you talking about? Is it still a problem? And is the spiritualism of a nature that you would consider dangerous to your own religious views or to your relationship with God? From my reading of near death experiences, I believe that when you first pass on, you find yourself above your body looking down on it. At that moment you are free to go go anywhere in the world that you wish until you are taken into the spirit world. I believe you are free to attend your own funeral and listen to the stark relief of those who owed you money, as well as your friends and family. Once you are taken to the other side of the veil, you are thus restrained from visitations to the Earth unless and until you are sent, at which point you become an angel. Also, what many don't know...and should know...is that you are being watched. Always. Evil spirits linger in one dimension, angelic beings in another. But both can see you all the time. And the righteous enjoy a substantial amount of protection from the wicked spirits that, without the protection, would strike at your spiritual and physical health until they could enter your body and control it. And they do the latter by influence over your spirit. I'm uncertain as to the extent of the control, but I recall the incident in the New Testament, where the evil spirits wanted to go into the bodies of swine. Did they intend for the swine to go over the cliff? Most likely not. It happened, I believe, because neither the swine nor the spirits could establish total control. So like an airplane that loses control, they plummeted to their doom. Many humans, when possessed, know they have much control over what they say or do, but that this control is constantly being struggled for, so the behavior becomes erratic and unsure. There was a couple on my mission who invited my partner and me over for dinner. He wasn't a member, but she was. But she wasn't active. During dinner, she began behaving in a bizarre manner. This was exhibited by loud and inappropriate laughter and strange statements. This was accompanied by strange movements and the atmosphere was charged with a negative energy that caused the hair on the back of our necks to rise. We were far too young to know what to do and my senior companion soon determined that we should beat an early retreat and cancel our discussion. As we left, the husband insisted that he accompany us to our car. As we popped the trunk, he told us that he was very much alarmed and concerned for his own safety by being around his wife. Indeed, it was her behavior that caused him to ask for the discussions. Perhaps if this woman could be returned to her religion, the strange behavior would cease. So we went to the Bishop and laid it all out to him. The missionary discussions were then turned over to the Ward Seventy and the Bishop set up a meeting with them. I don't know what happened and the Bishop was not forthcoming with the information, but we noticed the following Sunday that both the woman and her husband were at church smiling broadly and acting perfectly normal. We shook hands with them and they couldn't have been nicer, and the man (a Catholic) thanked us profusely for sending over the Bishop. Whatever happened, the oppressive feeling was gone and replaced with a positive feeling of affection between them. A little over a month later, the husband was baptized. And to think, it was all because of evil spirits. It's like Brigham Young said, when people are robbed of the Spirit of God, they lose the ability to act in their own best interest. (I've noticed this in a lot of elections where even latter-day saints enthusiastically vote for people who are for gutting the Constitution. Some of these people, in our first Ward, complained when we had a change of bishops. They were outspoken in their political beliefs, and now complained that it wasn't the new Bishop's "turn" to be bishop, and that it was supposed to be another man who should have been selected. We were new members of the church at that time (1971), but we knew enough that our mouths fairly dropped from our faces.) Anyway, please tell us more about your wife's beliefs if she is still your wife, and if you've reached an agreement with her. When I was in Mexico a number of years ago, I was told that when the Spanish came, they forced many into Catholicism, and every Sunday they would go to church and take Communion (Sacrament). Then on Wednesday nights, they would go into the fields and build a fire and practice their ancient religion. It's like the old saying, "A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still."

I'm researching the Gog/Magog war and I'm convinced that Ezekiel, in chapters 38-39, is talking about Armageddon. If you analyze the text, you'll see a number of clues: In both accounts, Israel is savagely attacked by overwhelming military might. In both accounts, the victory is brought about by the Lord and Israel repents and no more profanes the name of the Lord. The Antichrist is Gog. He's also the Beast. He's from the land of Turkey and I recommend Joel Richardson's books, The Islamic Antichrist and The Mideast Beast. Richardson isn't LDS, but we could use a few people like him. Mormons know prophecy as it relates to the New World, but they're a bit off on the prophecies of Daniel and John. I don't know that I've ever heard the Beast, the Antichrist, Gog even mentioned in church conference. I suppose that's fortunate because people will be fleeing Europe to get away from the Beast. If it goes down like the Muslims believe, people won't have to pay a tax to not become a Muslim; they'll be killed if they don't convert. It's in the hadiths. Muslims say, "There's nothing in the Qur'an that says that!" But it's there in their other writings. Their [false] Jesus will do away with the tax imposed on non-Muslims because there will be no non-Muslims. Go to YouTube and search for JOEL RICHARDSON. Listen to some of his videos. Also, check out some of the videos by Armageddon News. They're pretty good.