Seeker of truth

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  1. I always understood that only those that obtained celestial glory had repented and were made clean through the atonement which is what allowed them to enter that kingdom. Everyone else failed to repent, thus remained unclean and could not enter the celestial kingdom, they were consigned to terrestrial or telestial glories because of their uncleanliness, they didn’t repent, didn’t receive forgiveness, and thus not worthy to enter Celestial glory- no unclean thing can enter. If everyone but those unpardonable are forgiven and cleansed what would keep them from the celestial kingdom? Why are they consigned to terrestrial and telestial if they are forgiven and cleansed (without spot)?
  2. I have always thought that sins 1-10, if you repent fully of you will be granted celestial glory. In light of the Gospel Doctrine excerpts I quoted it would seem that eventually all mankind will be forgiven for all their misdeeds- even if it is after this life by going through hell first. It would make it seem that even though forgiveness was obtained one still might not inherit the celestial kingdom. Those excerpts I shared and am trying to understand in light of Section 76 would make it seem like sins 1-3 committed (least serious sins) repented and forgiven of will obtain celestial glory, sins 4-7 committed (moderately serious sins) repented and forgiven of will obtain terrestrial glory and sins 8-10 committed (most serious sins) repented and forgiven of will obtain telestial glory. What is your take on section 76?
  3. Growing up in the church, graduating from seminary, serving a mission and remaining active all of my life even to this day (I’m 47) it has always been my understanding and belief that if you repent of your sins you'll be forgiven, made clean AND more importantly if you do repent you will inherit the celestial kingdom. Recently re-reading the miracle of forgiveness and coming across the following teachings found in the gospel doctrine manual that I’ll share I am confused now if my understanding has been wrong all of this time. From the following statements they seem to be saying that every person that inherits any degree of glory, telestial, terrestrial, or celestial are forgiven for their sins. After reading the following excerpts I would like to know your thoughts on the following question. The D&C dilineates which sins go to which kingdom of glory. It was always my impression those were people who didn’t repent of those sins. And that those who repented went to the celestial kingdom. My new understanding is that all people that go to any degree of glory, including telestial and terrestrial are forgiven of their sins, made clean, but still consigned to those lesser kingdoms based upon the seriousness of the sins they committed. Is this so? Please read the following excerpts from the Gospel doctrine manual regarding King David and Joseph Smith’s statement found in Miracle of Forgiveness and give me your thoughts. Gospel Doctrine manual excerpts: Matt 12 31 ¶ Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. ———my original understanding over the years of this scripture is that they all CAN be forgiven...new understanding after following teachings is all WILL be forgiven——— (26-21) 2 Samuel 12:13. David Is Still Paying in Hell for His Sins The Joseph Smith Translation says, “The Lord also hath not put away thy sin” (JST, 2 Samuel 12:13). Elder Joseph Fielding Smith, commenting on David’s sin, said: “David committed a dreadful crime, and all his life afterwards sought for forgiveness. Some of the Psalms portray the anguish of his soul; yet David is still paying for his sin. He did not receive the resurrection at the time of the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Peter declared that his body was still in the tomb, and the Prophet Joseph Smith has said, ‘David sought repentance at the hand of God carefully with tears, for the murder of Uriah; but !!!!he could only get it!!!! through hell: (my comment: does this indicate he repented and was forgiven?) he got a promise that his soul should not be left in hell.’ Again we ask: Who wishes to spend a term in hell with the devil before being cleansed from sin?” (Answers to Gospel Questions, 1:74.) His repentant feelings were no doubt sincere, but he could not repent enough to restore the life of his friend, Uriah, nor the virtue of his wife. Though he later hoped and prayed that his soul would not be left forever in hell (the spirit prison), yet the eternal destiny of doers of such twin sins does not look good. (See Psalms 16 and 51; then see Hebrews 6:4–6; Revelation 22:14–15; D&C 132:27; 76:31–37; 29:41 and 42:18, 79.)” (Rasmussen, Introduction to the Old Testament, 1:185.) Elder Bruce R. McConkie explained the limits of David’s eternal inheritance: “Murderers are forgiven eventually but only in the sense that all sins are forgiven except the sin against the Holy Ghost; they are not forgiven in the sense that celestial salvation is made available to them. (Matt. 12:31–32; Teachings, pp. 356–357.) After they have paid the full penalty for their crime, they shall go on to a telestial inheritance. (Rev. 22:15.)” (Mormon Doctrine, p. 520.) “From celestial to telestial—that is tragedy.” “Murder is so treacherous and so far-reaching! Those who lose their possessions may be able to recover their wealth. Those defamed may still be able to prove themselves above reproach. Even the loss of chastity leaves the soul in mortality with opportunity to recover and repent and to make amends to some degree. But to take a life, whether someone else’s or one’s own, cuts off the victim’s experiences of mortality and thus his opportunity to repent, to keep God’s commandments in this earth life. It interferes with his potential of having ‘glory added upon [his head] for ever and ever.’ (Abraham 3:26.)” (Miracle of Forgiveness, pp. 195–96.) END of excerpts found in the Gospel Doctrine manual. From Miracle of Forgiveness excerpt: “If a man commit adultery, he cannot receive the celestial kingdom of God. Even if he is saved in any kingdom, it cannot be the celestial kingdom.” Joseph Smith Kimball goes on to explain that forgiveness can be had for adultery. Which I whole heartedly believe. However, my problem in my understanding now is...are they forgiven and consigned to telestial glory? I always believed if you repented and were forgiven you inherited celestial glory. But those preceding excerpts have me confused whether or not that is true. Those statements appear to me to show that King David repented and received forgiveness for his crimes but ultimately consigned a telestial glory. What am I missing? Or is that just how it is. So to summarize: Am I to understand that King David “received repentance” was forgiven and still consigned to telestial kingdom. If so does that apply to all sins dilineateed in D&C for each kingdom, that those people in those kingdoms are forgiven of those sins but still consigned to that kingdom? Or is my original belief that if you repent you will be forgiven (all but blasphemy against the Holy Ghost) and go to the celestial kingdom? If this is the case how do I rectify the apparent discrepancy between that belief and the excerpts shared above?