john4truth
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Posts posted by john4truth
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I think you only sustain a leader in his calling. And even then it is like our wives who aren't expected to support an bad person. If you don't report him to the person with keys over him you share the blame
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On 6/26/2018 at 8:18 AM, CV75 said:
Yes, I agree with it. Leaders have leaders too, and if there are moral concerns these can be shared with them. I
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On 8/3/2018 at 8:37 PM, john4truth said:
There are honest attorneys but my sister worked for what people think are some of the best in our area. She said all she ever worked for billed double the hours they worked. If they have 3 cases an hours drive from the office all 3 clients were billed for the entire trip. An attorney friend said it is a terrible job. A judge came to him with a common scheme of rigging cases for profit. He said it is a no win situation. Nothing is in writing and if you don't play you are discriminated against and the judge see to it that you're very limited in winning. Attorneys either take a risk and make a lot of money or fail in jury trials. My friend said most case have set outcome long before trials. To be an honest attorney most stay away from common jury trials. I personally was out of sight and listened to opposing attorneys discuss the rigging system.
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On 8/3/2018 at 8:18 PM, john4truth said:
All are not doing bad but exposing the truth would end the career of ani lawman. Texas has a history of this Texas Rangers were feared because of their reputation of not leaving it up to a jury to handle. We had a member who plead guilty but tried to report illegal activities by the arresting officers. He and his friend were together guilty of the exact same crimes and neither had a prior history and the only difference was trying to turn in an officer. His buddy got 5 years he got 10. I was very close to the the events and thought he was helping himself by producing evidence but was sickened by the judge who obviously was a part of their brotherhood.
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23 minutes ago, john4truth said:
Cops are a fraternity. I reported bad activity to a state trooper commanding officer. He simply called a liar and did nothing. I called my congressman and he called back and said it was all on video. The CO never would admit he did anything wrong. They call each other brother and cover for each at any cost. My cousin is county but says he can't eat with them due to the bragging about improper activity by blackmailing teenage girls. My cousin lost his daughter to a drunk driver. I have watched troopers violate many laws (I am old) and in Texas they have a fraternity with vows. My daughter was top graduate in the academy but said the corruption and expected cover up was too much. In Texas they deny everything but it is so common it is unbelievable. A large number carry drop guns to put in a shooting victims hand. In fact I was given one by a friend of mine who said they gather them on the street when no one will claim a gun. Troopers in Texas make over $100,000 after 3 years. It is a controversy no politicians will touch. The fraternity commits law men to violate Church guidelines and all ethics. I know too much and have even been warned how easy it is to plant things on your kids and grandkids so I chose not to fight this fight because it's too risky.
All are not doing bad but exposing the truth would end the career of ani lawman. Texas has a history of this Texas Rangers were feared because of their reputation of not leaving it up to a jury to handle. We had a member who plead guilty but tried to report illegal activities by the arresting officers. He and his friend were together guilty of the exact same crimes and neither had a prior history and the only difference was trying to turn in an officer. His buddy got 5 years he got 10. I was very close to the the events and thought he was helping himself by producing evidence but was sickened by the judge who obviously was a part of their brotherhood.
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On 7/23/2018 at 7:33 PM, askandanswer said:
Maybe it depends on the intention of the electricity and which path it chooses to travel on?
I think the statement can be false. If you have a pure heart God is all knowing and you will be rewarded according to your true heart. We're going to be surprised at the elect that did things for there own glory and Will receive little at judgement. Paul H Dunn was dishonest in trying to give great talks and luckily was rebuked in this life so he a chance to repent.
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On 6/26/2018 at 12:45 AM, Petty3 said:
I read this. "Sustaining leaders involves more than just a raised hand—it means that we stand behind them, pray for them, accept assignments and callings from them, hearken to their counsel, and refrain from criticizing them."
Do you agree with it? What if you know things that certain leaders have done that are wrong or unethical?
If we know, and yes it happens, a leader is hurting the Church we should only talk to him or his superior. No gossip.
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On 7/31/2018 at 9:22 PM, Scott said:
I'm just curious about the numbers. There are already plenty of other threads to debate it out on. Feel free to vote. None of this will be used against you or be used as scientific information. I promise not to sell your personal information to FB either. 😏
I suggest we know less than 1% of the full truth. We are only given what we need in this dispensation. Everything thing else is a wild guess. It is ok to think about what we will never know but don't waste too much time guessing
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On 6/27/2018 at 10:43 AM, lostinwater said:
i'll be the first one to admit that i think (and sometimes say) otherwise, but i think it's very rare that telling someone to repent or change does any good. After you subtract that times when i am the one who is wrong about them being wrong, the times when they already know what i am reminding them of, the times when i wouldn't convey what i actually was trying to say, and the times when they are not "repenting" because their "sin" it is a necessary/protective coping mechanism whose sudden removal would spin them into a much worse place - there just aren't many reasons to tell people that their attempt at being their best selves isn't cutting the mustard for me or my interpretation of God.
At least not a reason that does them any good. Jesus can talk to people and work with them in a way that doesn't get their fists raised. Every time i try, i fail - pretty spectacularly.
You can only offer council under the direction of the Spirit
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On 8/2/2018 at 9:57 PM, zil said:
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On 6/19/2018 at 8:49 AM, prisonchaplain said:
No matter how broken we are (regardless of faith tradition), we still bare the image of God.
All good is from God other Faith's have a portion of the good. Other Faith's will have an opportunity to enter the Kingdom. LDS must live up to what they have been given. God is all good and all fair. The more you were given the more that is expected.
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Thanks it seems at times no one understands the truth
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On 8/1/2018 at 3:10 PM, NeuroTypical said:
I find it endlessly fascinating how people can have similar experiences, and walk away with very, very different perspectives. Hi john4truth, I am currently the finance clerk in my ward. No check is written without my involvement. The bishop and I know more about how fast offerings are used than any bishopric counselor, so if that's what you were, it might explain some of this:
Unalterable rule of the universe: "if you have five, then you can't give away six". I mean, Christ can get away with it, but not us mortals. How weird to see such a basic, common sense thing get phrased in terms of worrying about ability to spend, more than the needy.
Does anyone else see the irony here? If people were always helping the poor anonymously all the time, you wouldn't know about it. Because of the dictionary definition of the word. So for all you know, that's happening, you're just not seeing it. And yet you somehow conclude it's not happening?
My bishop sees anonymous help happening all the time. Occasionally he needs my help, and I get to see some of it too.
At the end of the day, if you want there to be more anonymous helping of the poor and needy in the church, hop to it brother. You got all the stewardship you need right there in what you see when you look in the mirror. Disabled or not, financially sound or not. You have time/talent/resources to give. If you disagree, then you are part of the problem you are complaining about.
Um, again... Fast offerings go nowhere except to the needy. I get audited every six months by someone who has that as one of his things to verify.
Not sure what you're griping about here... I've lived, at different times, surrounded by affluence and poverty, and the churches seem to look the same. Maybe this is just my experience living in the US in the present day with modern facilities management practices and all, and it wasn't always that way. Or are you complaining about how the church won't build until there is sufficient membership to support the building with tithing?
And replaced with John Lennon's Imagine, no doubt.
The church has been too bright for that sort of nonsense since the '60's and N. Eldon Tanner. I mean really - what utter, total, complete, foolish claptrap. Pretending financial realities don't exist, and refusing to deal with them, is not a solution to anything.
Here - have a fun article. Sort of required reading for anyone wishing to give the church advice on what it should do with it's money.
Heh.
It simple some people wear rose colored glasses. The Church doctrine is specific. A bishop is only a bishop when acting under the direction of the Spirit. Yes we must sustain them regardless. Leaders need the incouraged not to act with out the help of deity. Some would like to not face the truth, but all of us are guilty if we have been leaders. Dissecting my remarks make it easier to ignore truth. History proves I am accurate such as when a GA said we are a white Church, there are men living on the moon, and etc. The information is out there and for the sake of the our children and the future finding a "clever" way to avoid truth doesn't work anymore. I have a solid testimony even knowing the truth. Avoiding truth hurts the church. We can all become as the GA that was excommunicated for dishonesty but avoiding the truth is hurting an informed generation. I will be fine because I understand even the prophet is imperfect. When I said ignore goals and budgets, please be honest and read in context. If a family has real needs as defined by the Handbook we must forget how much we bring in in fast offering. A Bishop told me a bishop that never exceeds his fast offering income is most likely failing he duty to SEEK out and care for the poor and needy. This is one of the biggest failures a bishop can make. My comments about buildings is due to the fact that PFRs in this state show favoritism to wealthy Wards. They are just men with flaws. I had that stake assignment 10 years ago....a building had a problem with the HVAC leaking water. The local pfr has said publicly he has a problem with that units attitude. 10 years later the leak is still there with mold and mildew. The problem is consistent, men are not perfect and anyone who speaks up is made a villain and accused of being ignorant or unrighteous. I wish I was like my wife and most, but I feel ignoring real problems is not what the Lord asks of us. I agree with a bishop that was my best friend, it is better to give too much help than risk failure in meeting needs. I will not revisit this thread because I feel no good can come of it. Most will not admit not allowing blacks to have the priesthood was a leadership error even though the prophet authorized this to be admitted. Men are not bad but we're all far from perfect and refusal to admit that is a problem
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On 6/27/2018 at 7:53 AM, CV75 said:
Please provide some examples form the cop world -- thank you,
I retired due to disability in the insurance world. First I was terminated from a $180,000 a year job for reporting fraud, had my retirement frozen for trying to work for a competitor, and forced into bankruptcy. The local leaders only advice was to take a self reliance course. I have investigated in our several stake region and learned that Bishops are put under so much pressure to stay within their offerings budget they have ceased seeking out the poor and needy. I found one exception where a branch president is defiant and did what was right and he was not released. The most however give in to the pressure and seem hopeful they do not find any needy. Most are business minded and feel they must stay in their "budget". I have been in three bishoprics and know the only limit is on medical and in a recent disaster SLC made it plain that there were no caps but the local pressure not to spend trumps that. I know I did what was right in being honest to the point it cost me my job, but I was shocked that there was no real help from the Church even in advice. I felt the bishop felt I should have protected my family not my honor. If you chose to be honest you are on your own. I was fortunate that due to other factors I was accepted by SS Disability and I am scratching by. It seems that Bishops are becoming like false churches and worrying about income more than the needy. It worry's me that the world has become so bad, leaders are not trained in how to deal with the effects on members. Myself not even included I fear on a local level the mission of seeking out the poor and needy has been abandoned to save money and balance budgets.
It would be hard for me to advise a person to quit their job or stand up and get fired because we cannot expect support. As a sales person I was challenged if I was the problem, I was would not lie and tell people they would get something free when in fact the price was added to the price they paid. I fear few people actually are honest. My family has been challenged by dishonesty even in the Church. My house flooded but all the help went to high profile people and leaders seeking television coverage. Leadership clearly went overboard to get attention for every thing we did in Hurricane Harvey. The Church would grow if we helped the poor and needy and did so anonymously. The bishopric should not announce they need extra fast offerings to help Sister "Smith" with repairs. Tithes and offering should first help the poor and needy because unless we do we have nothing. Buildings should not reflect, as they do now, the bottom line on tithing. You should not be able to tell by looking at a building what the average income in a Ward is.
The Church is true but we training is needed what is right and doctrine. Budgets and goals should be thrown away. Church leaders face the same challenge.... do they do right or do they do what they are told in audits of expenditures and only spend what they bring in fast offerings.My experience are not the issue, the issue is what I was force to see happening throughout the Church. The Church cannot be ran like a business. The Lord provides what is needed and Bishops should not feel their hands are tied.
How do we get the leaders to have the faith needed to do what is right?
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On 6/22/2018 at 8:22 PM, Overwatch said:
Me neither
ummm... I disagree. Coke and non gambling card games are not the same as permanently defiling your body with a tattoo
Good point bringing this up. I really don't know why they aren't
Good for you
I really have no idea what you mean about this. Christ was constantly teaching.
I talk about others if I am planning to help or intervene (legally and ethically of course)
That sucks. The more I look the more I realize there are some pretty crappy people on earth. It helps me be even more grateful for the angels and true saints that I meet. Do I stop serving those who are lost because of ignorance? Nope. I do have less tolerance for willful rebellious though. They are the worst IMO, they take and do without feeling guilt or remorse.
*Although, If a willful rebellious says they are sinning and know they are sinning and don't try to act like they aren't then I actually do feel more love toward them. Sometimes people are struggling. Their demons seem to have a strangle hold on them. I completely understand how we ALL get knocked repeatedly ,AT TIMES, in certain areas we are working on. The key is to keep working at it and improving. Tackling the sin head on with the help of The Lord, our leaders, family and doing the gospel basics to build back our foundations.
Some one believes I am a really bad person . We must be like Christ
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I don't do tattoos are earrings. Neither really matter ....no more than drinking cokes or playing card games. These are not recommend questions. I feel I need to avoid talking about others, it is not Christ like. Satan uses everything to get me not to be Christ like. If I focus on other's faults, even W.O.W I am wasting energy I need to spend on being Christ like. There's never a time to talk about others, I am overlooking the beam in my eye. The more I look the more I find I am no better than others.
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General authorities use Bible many things we know come from the Bible we need it and should respect it.
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On 1/29/2018 at 9:03 PM, Blossom76 said:
I am new to this and I'm not yet a baptised member BUT from my understanding tithing is to be paid on 'what you earn'. If these are government benefits then you shouldn't have to tithe on them. Student loans are not income either, its a loan. In fact from what I can work out the only money coming into your marriage that should be tithed on is the income from your wife's part time job. I don't know what that income is (none of mine, your bishops or anyone else business) but that's all you should be thinking of paying tithes on. So if you are paying $29 in tithing already and your wife's pay from her part time job is less than $290, then you are ahead on your tithing and you're owed one very big apology for the way you have been treated.
I also don't think its right that you feel like you have to tell anyone how much your money you have, its not the bishops business. My understanding is you are asked in an interview 'are you paying a honest tithe' or something to that effect, there is no need to tell anyone how much money you have, and I"m pretty sure you don't have to produce your tax return to prove your income, its between you and the lord.
You can also set up an account and pay tithing online too, this might be a good idea in your situation.
I do find the way you are being treated really disturbing, I think you should be welcomed, especially if you are new members. I'd be lodging a complaint to the stake president and if that didn't get any results, I'd go over his head too.
I'm so sorry you have been made to feel like this. Your health is important and so are you.
Loans should not be tithed period grants are. Bishop should not question you. Everyone does something questionable. There job matches savings, company car, company credit card. Company buys health,or life insurance. Company gives gifts they get a nice birthday gift. On all of those things you could argue a tithe is owed, even a free lunch. Bottom line is between you and God not the Bishop. Be respectful and honest but do not push it. Let him be wrong if needed some need the last word
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On 6/12/2018 at 9:46 PM, Anddenex said:
Although we agree, a black cat or owl wasn't what I was responding to. This is what I was responding to, "Extreme decisions may be made based on dropping a piece of paper." Nephi, who appears from scripture to have understood revelation, used (with his brothers) the casting of lots to determine who would speak with Laban. The casting of lots fell upon Jonah, and thus the men knew who was causing the storm and threw him overboard.
Extreme decisions have been made by people who know revelation, through casting (dropping) lots.
I don't think modern leady cast lots
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Should you confess your life history before marriage? I have mixed feelings I had to divorce a woman who I learned lost custody of her children for trying to drown them and she heard voices and scared me. Her bishop knew but could not even hint she was psychotic and was like two different people. I had children in danger
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On 6/4/2018 at 6:40 PM, Latter-Day Marriage said:
What the handbook says about church discipline is that the purpose is:
1) save the soul of the transgressor
2) protect the innocent
3) safeguard the integrity of the church
Fornication is listed as something that may or may not need a Disciplinary Council to resolve. A lot depends on the details of the individual case. A one time mistake made in a moment of weakness or pressure, or out of ignorance, is not the same thing as a long term pattern of deliberate rebellion. He needs to go talk with his Bishop, and he doesn't need fear condemnation and judgment. He will find compassion and help. He will feel so much better even after the first talk. God and his Bishop ache for his return to the fold and are there to help him, but he has to take the first step. Satan will work to make him fear doing that but he has to find the courage to come back.His privacy will be respected, he won't be humiliated and shamed.
A disciplinary council has the options of no action, an informal probation which would be restrictions like not being allowed to take the sacrament / exercise his priesthood / hold a calling until repentance is complete , a formal probation (further restrictions than an informal probation), disfellowshipment or excommunication.
Given what you have said (which is all I know about it) I would think that excommunication is unlikely. He has not made and broken temple covenants and was young at the time (I'm assuming that since he only had AP at the time), stopped it and feels bad about it, and all that works in his favor. However I don't know the whole story and I'm not his Bishop so don't come back at me if things turn out differently. If he got a girl pregnant and helped her get an abortion that would not help for example. If it was something that happened a long time ago and his life since then demonstrates he has changed that works in his favor as well.
The intention is not to punish somebody, it is to help them. Sometimes a person reaches a point where the best thing for them is to start over from scratch, and that is where excommunication comes in. Excommunicated members are not tossed aside, they are shepherded along the path back into the church if they are willing.
Now if the situation is so bad that he is excommunicated, he would need to be re-baptized and he would have to wait a year after his re-baptism before he could go for his endowment same as any other convert. He would be restored to his priesthood office right after his re-baptism. If he is not excommunicated, then it will depend on how long it takes him to work out his repentance with the Bishop. As it is right now there is no way he can get a temple recommend without out and out lying to the Lord's anointed and that is a pretty serous thing too.
Something you need to do is ask yourself what you are going to do if he refuses to confess. Would you stand quite and let him get a temple recommend without saying anything knowing what you know? What if he bails on the whole concept of a temple marriage to avoid confessing? I know you don't want to think about those things, but you need to.A Church court is instructed to do what is spiritually best or bishop
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The answer is not always yes
Pineapples on Pizza?
in General Discussion
Posted
Yes to fruits on pizza