Behemoth

It’s all about what we want to believe. Do we want to believe the person that says drugs & money will set us free or do we want to believe the person that says God’s spirit through living revelation and obedience will set us free? Both say they are telling the truth. Who do you WANT to believe, what do you WANT? Not: What do you know?This is our purpose and test. We aren’t ever forced to do anything. So the fact that I know there is a God and that he loves us, doesn’t actually change me until I decide I want it. In essence, I decide what “makes [me] feel good and right”, my creation or destruction. (Thinking about this has helped me with how I percieve my own doubts, and testimony. I am going to start using the word “know” at church more. ) E.g. Relativity- Do we know that the earth moves around the sun, or that the sun moves around the earth? Well.... to say that the earth moves around the sun, is true, if we have some absolute frame of reference indicating it is. As I understand, so far... there. are. none. That means that (pretending that the sun is still) the earth moves around the sun, and in our (earthly) position, where we feel still, the sun moves around us. Who’s to say they aren’t both moving around each other? If we triangulate our position enough with the celestial bodies we can approximate closer to what may be absolute reality. But since, we really don’t know whether those stars are moving or not in infinity the effort is... futile. I believe this is the case, for the purpose of us realizing: It is what WE make it. WE are the hangers, framers of the universe. Intelligence is the only REAL reference frame. God has the absolute reference frame, but it is withdrawn...on purpose. did you also know, that since we can’t actually determine an absolute frame of reference, we never determine the reality of basic forces. Magnetism, gravity, etc. you name it. We could easily be intrepretating the forces and their sources incorrectly. But this knowledge of things is only benificial and relevant, when there is some purpose. We decide what purpose our lives will assume. And thus, the purpose we give to that around us. There is nothing more real, then the existence of an absolute frame of reference that is currently partially withheld. God, and spiritual exitence.

Nice! 👍🏽

And sometimes one can be worse then the other too, right?

@Luke It’s about the English. “God”, means to us: omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent. Is that what the word “God” means to you? He is the truth. You can’t seperate God from the truth cause that’s not God. Buddy Luke. This is the language of the prophets. Start using it. I would not say “God” and “truth” in the same sentence and wonder if they are possibly separate. They aren’t. You’d have to use another word. Its equivalent to asking: Does 1=1 when 1=5-4 ? I know God doesn’t lie just like I know, and am willing to bet my life on the idea, that 1+1=2. I know God doesn’t lie like I know that I exist and think. Satisfied? while it’s impressive to doubt if 1 actually = 1 , there comes a point, where the doubt becomes “utterly” futile. Luke: but couldn’t 1=1 be circular reasoning, and 1 doesn’t actually e... just stop. I think your doubt is futile. So, you wonder, am I absolute. No, but I will be. And what i will, I know... Really, if you keep this up, and you want to remain consistent, you’ll have to stop speaking English entirely. (Maybe that’s not, in Jesus’ words: straining at a nat, FOR YOU, but I really think it will be. Though, you’ll be the judge of that). You are a half being. Like I am. Half mortal, half immortal. (Not to detract from a real demi-God, Jesus) you and I, we are co heirs with Christ. is to know really that different then to sense? No one is omniscient here. Like you’ve admitted. Where is your doubt, its like a shadow... oh wait, that’s what doubts are. I admit, I’m afraid of the dark (depends on the situation). But isn’t the light also the source of the shadow? Or when I turn the light off in my room, couldn’t there be a monster there? How can I possibly be sure? A big nasty looking thing that after killing me, will also tell my Mom, that’s I broke her hair dryer today, and also that i peed around the toilet seat and didn’t clean it up!?!?!?? Do you see the triviality of the question and how, some could conclude after 4 pgs. Of explanations: Luke must understand, and be insincere with his intentions. Sort of like, when your child has this monster- coming-out-when-you-turn-off-the-lights-conversation with you, child: you can’t be %100 sure Dad! You might just start thinking it’s because he wants to get out of going to bed and stay up with mommy and daddy and watch the movie that he smells the popcorn for? anyway, I’m satisfied with my answer. I hope you are to. But I won’t force you to go to bed, as if I was your father. If you sense/know (since “know” may imply omniscience) that God tells you he loves you and always will. At some point you may feel he has lied to you when what he meant by “love”, isn’t what you believed it to mean. (E.g. maybe you believed “love” to mean candy and hot chocolate everyday of your life). We must conform to his language, rather then him to us. (don’t worry, although I don’t know you, I think, I am also, just like you)

It’s kind of weird, that sometimes we don’t get really well educated on this stuff. When it seems like it would probably have been a good thing to know if we’re already members of the Church... I think, my thoughts had been “porn thoughts” long before I had ever “officially” looked at porn. I think being anxious about our bodies and sins is wrong, and there’s a healthy way to deal with porn and masturbation (they’ve spelt it wrong in the title tags of this converation). Is it a sin? yes. can we be healed from addiction? YES! That’s good! Today!! Don’t go back. Me neither! It’s just an emptiness in your soul, and if you trust in God, he will help you to fill it a better way, because he has said masturbation and pornography are wrong. Also believe that your Bishop is the man, God has asked us to talk to him, about ANY addiction. This absolutely counts. Take care! Hope things go great!

@luke my comments are the best 👋🏼(Force hand)

I said pretend if you’re a woman! Are you sure you don’t find them attractive. Are you only attracted by the spiritual then? obviously we don’t have to talk about temptations, but, in some settings not wearing high heels is considered INFORMAL! Anyway. Why is it necessary? I don’t see it as ever necessary. A public speedO, I don’t feel I need to justify either, but what ev’s. Maybe if I was competitive. Yeah I would say some things are “straining at the nat” while others are more important. While my own girth is impressive, I’m good at straining

Just look at their intention. They can hardly walk!? How do they do it? It take practices. It is completely unconventional unless having a third and large pocket in the middle of your legs becomes more Effiecent then a backpack, or purse, tool belt, for you purposes. Nah. No good. Instead we can seek order in everything we do. And not make ourselves so much an object as much, as a living, spiritual being.

I get naked in the locker room........... i do it all the time, but it lasts like 2 seconds. (Or less) then... when I forget the soap before I shower, with less then fig leaves (i.e. just my hands) to cover my privates. I run through the locker room to the hand soap and use 1 hand (or 2 🙈) hands, then I use the hand soap as if it was regular soap...🙉🙊 God said: “come follow me...” I’ve never seen Jesus in a speedO! He just goes ahead and walks on top of the water... with all of his clothes...why can’t you do that BJ? @BJ64 it’s fine I guess. But, mr. BJ. How do you feel about high heels for woman? (Just pretend you’re a woman for a sec)

Spiritual change is not time restricted. Its just change. Time is an illusion. Progress? Can happen without an instant. Do you believe it? so why talk about past present future? Thats silly. Stop it. There is only.... me.... you.... and infinity(/a mystery). Why even worry about the distinction between me and you (John 17:22)? we can be one, hot dog! synergy? anybody?

What if we stopped judging prospective mates (eternal companions) by sexual appeal and judged by their nature. I.e. we were more spiritual... what if we were perfect 😮😧😳😭 In short, modesty can and should always be a thing, but not everyone always understands it or is ready to make the sacrifice, (we all have sins). I like to define modesty as: a habit of presenting oneself with specific godly intents. This leaves room to be sexually presentable at the right moments. I.e. when it’s time conceive a child/begin reproduction. Why on earth would I need to be sexually presentable at church? Absolutely no reason. Etc. like High heels? 👠. I Don’t see them as necessary. Although, attractive. I make an effort to disregard the difference, in my mind. Why would I need to be sexually presentable on a Highschool prom date? Nope 👎. As a missionary? 👎 as public persona 👎. It may work, to get them to do good things, but I’d like us to try convincing and persuading people to our will, by filling a different vacancy in their soul. Getting people’s attention is hard. Sometimes it’s absolutly necessary. But we can be creative other ways in getting their attention right?... and I’m preaching to the choir... I should probably just do my own thing now...

No, you probably did, and I just missed it cause I probably got too distracted by the “eternally fixed and limited” and “utterly futile” part. Sorry. I understand now. And appreciate your comments. Very much. I believed that your usage may have been overly critical of Luke’s nature, when rather you may had been refferring to the words (and their spirit) because the spirit of his actions should be given some benefit of the doubt, should they not, since we are so far from them? I never understood, that Luke believed that the others were lying about their testimonies, only that there was a gap of the usage of their words relating to the word “know”. I believe he righted his (only possibly perceived faithlessness in general members “know” testimonies) later, by saying no one is omniscient, therefore, either he has to change the meaning he gives to the word “know” or just have confusion with a majority of statements made by people. No, even to say: I think, therefor I am. Is a flawed statement.(by the secular “empirical” world) It is circular reasoning.... I am, therefor I think. unless circular reasoning is ok with the eternal (spiritual) things. 🤯😮👍🏽😱🤗🤫 (He must be deeply thinking and organizing his thoughts right now. That’s why he hasn’t responded yet. Or he’s just busy working, like is common and good...;) )

As logical concept, If I don’t understand someone else’s meaning and usage of words, but then demand THEY use my meaning or usage of words, I may never be able to grasp their spiritual message. E.G. Someone may, communicate “pass the sauce”, “please pass the sauce” and “PLEASE PASS THE ****** ******* ****** GRAVY” all in a similar spirit. Just refined differently. While one person may feel threatened by the last response, another may not, if they understand. That’s why it’s good to use standardized English... hope we can always use the spoken word to communicate ALL of existence. It’s been difficult journey for us all.

This blew my mind, when as my younger self, I was scared and very impressed by Darth Vader’s (I think it was a star wars movie) power. My dad taught me the very same concept (and, it also taught through the promises made to us by God’s prophets.) The problem comes from the two realities we live, I.e, in the world but not of the world. So if we use the english and culture of the world to debate, it may confuse us. Because to the world there is no spiritual reality. Yet, if we use our own spiritual language we can not intercommune with those we are meant to fellowship. Logic: Because we are correct, they live in (our understanding of) reality. And English, has and can, actually be very useful in representing that reality. If, we use English we can win. (We all need to work on it, I’m not the best) The problem is when we start changing the meaning of words. (Which is actually a very spiritual thing since spiritual things are reality.) E.g. The word “sex” was once used only to describe the gender of a sexual organism. Now, it is more commonly referred to as a verb for genital intercourse. “gender”, became a word to replace sex, but now, is commonly used to refer to the customs, attitudes, and preferences, an individual is expected to perform. So, what is the word that the world will make up to replace “sex” and “gender”? These words have been corrupted. What will become the status quo word to categorize between the living organisms that reproduce with distinct gametes? Are you guys familiar with this particular example? The same can be said about many other words. They will and are being corrupted, and if we take on the meaning of the words that faithless individuals give to them, things may start to make a lot less sense. @Luke SAID, he feels he has had spiritual witnesses, and so, I think he may just be confused (as am I, sometimes), about the meaning each of us give to our words, (because they do differ, though the words are registered equally through the ear). but I do hate making assumptions. Respond to me Luke!

Yeah... haha! I wish they would keep their feathers to themselves!! A little modesty might make their relationships better...

Thank you!! Makes my heart swell! I’m glad to be here too. I recognize the people participating here are probably not the undedicated. (Why don’t you think I’m a girl huh!? Don’t think they’d want to be called “behemoth” do you? (not relevant)) (Great answer.) That is substantial. Sometimes (maybe many times), I’ve felt the same way, when I see the spiritual side of people, when called in church, so separate from their routine behavior. (I’ve come to blame the greater culture of society (somewhat) and the so called “rat race” of mortality rather then the faith of the members) and... I have also doubted Luke’s sincerity (mostly when he didn’t respond to what I believed to be my beautiful answers). so@Luke have we satiated the emptiness in your soul, as it seems many of us doubt your sincerity... after our fantastic responses. You do realize, 1+1=2, only because that’s how we‘ve decided to represent a separate reality? E.g. English has the word “eternal” (and lots more words) but they are representations of reality not reality itself other then “meta data” as @zil and others have mentioned in their beautiful ( ) responses? Helloooooo? You real? (funny enough, on twitter, plenty of people have called me a bot, since my answers were so separate) (it wasnt even always political conversations)

I love someone who sins (otherwise I’f Have to hate myself). Let’s just make sure while in church, someone can find a suit jacket blanket or other so that the proper spirit is retained. Look, what is the most important part about this... seduction (that is), is the intent of the person dressing themselves. Does the person want to market themselves as an object, or not? This can be done with or without covering going either way, usually if a person does not want to market themselves as an object, they will quickly change their presentation if they are (unfortunate be the circumstance ) found nude. Make sense? Need examples?

Yeah... modesty is for the birds...

Ouch miss Zil. I guess I’ll have to not judge you about the expressos (when I really want to...) there’s bigger messes on our hands I think;)

... and what does your knowledge do for you, that his belief doesn’t? @Luke needs to come back and establish what he understands and what he’s still missing. Instead of saying he is all wrong as an individual, and has no faith, nor testimony, (which would be wrong, as it sounds like he actually lives the gospel) I’m saying the questions are all silly. How can men become God? How can God be omniscient? Does the word omniscient really mean omniscient? Can I know I exist? Is this real? Hellllooooo? Is this real everybody!!?!?!?!

I loved what you said here. My question though, is, how (spiritually) free are you? I think we can both agree that eating Krispy Cream donuts once a month seems far from incarceration...

Wouldn’t it be nice, Mr. Jersey, if you could show him the difference between Zion and Sodom? How much different do you live then he does? Your words are as sounding brass. I could try to make peace with you. But I’m sick. You have a point of course, but @Luke is really the “eternally ... intractable natural man... that is a waste of time ... to try and persuade”? If I’m not mistaken, I think he is asking the questions that burn his soul. Enlightened one, be merciful with us and show us the way to the eternal joy that you know... who will you tell? Am I also an unworthy swine to have the precious pearls withheld? We all live a suedo commited life... according to your definition it sounds like he lives a life where he knows the truth and lives it. Unless he is lying to us about his testimony and daily walk. But my perception is he lives it as if he believed or knew it were all true. I don’t think we are all that different.

What about the elephant in the room? Yeah....me. Logically sound, faith promoting, humongous.... how can you ignore it? Do any of your questions remain unanswered?

In D+C, it says a messenger from God won’t shake your hand no matter what, and a messenger of the devil, they’ll try but won’t be able to cause they don’t have a body....boohyah! (I imagine if the devil spirit knows this trick, you’re just gonna have to trick him with a different idea) Annndddd, you’re completely right about the truth thing. look at the example of confidence that comes from the Book of Mormon. I like how they bare testimony: “as I know that I live... and “as surely as you live... Jesus is the Christ” .. blah blah blah. Get it? I feel comfortable saying the same thing. As surely as I exist, Love, Joy, God, His Son, revelation, modern prophets inspired by Him with authority etc.... exist. so you can’t KNOW... any better then you know you exist. What more certainty can we ask for? Don’t stop seeking for the mysterious of the universe, but don’t allow yourself to be “haunted” by silliness either.

I have an answer. No. He doesn’t have to be good. He is good, and that’s why he’s God. (You see, you get to use circular reasoning when considereing eternity) I just read the book of Job in one go, trying to understand it, because in the past I’ve only understood the first couple chapters. It just about broke me. God seems ALOT more bad then good. What frivolous suffering! What laws governed this escapade? (It is a little thing to READ it, but one can not simply LIVE a diet of Hell, and still perceive light.) Does a child comprehend the disciplinings of his parents? He is right because he is God, and he is God because he is right. If you are in the middle of a hellish existence, will you still believe in love? If you have kept the commandments then death & continual pain are your earthly reward can you still believe in his perfect goodness? This is like our existence. So we will fear him, because we don’t know what he’ll do with our lives, whether to burn them today with the lilies, or tomorrow, with the sparrows. Or, will we choose to forever believe in love. (most of our silly conundrums can be solved by correctly discerning when to use circular reasoning.) how can I not believe in love? Sounds like an in-existential existence... null-void. Hope in love abounds in existence. Cleave to it and see if it doesn’t enlarge your soul. - separate idea to test your reasoning skills... I think of you, therefore you are?