inquisitive

Chelian not it makes sense. Well no it doesn't but this is crazy. No wonder people feel lke they are in hell. All these are things that a convert should be told. Its an over reach, its emotionally destructive, its man playing God and its a blindside when the person was never told that the church had the right to do this. This is so wrong, its almost criminal.

Wow 😯 no wonder I have been totally ghosted and abandoned I had NO CLUE any church thought like this. None! the church I came from had an LBGT ministry. I don’t identify but NOW I see a bit of what I got into. They think they own ppl in the 2018 and treat them according to one persons moral opinion. That would have to mean spying on people illegally to know what they do! Help me Jesus please no disrespect but you don’t know how odd this seems to a new comer it’s like a bad dark move from the 1940’s. They don’t even have the respect to return a call or text msg to tell me how to undo this stuff. so by trolling the boards there is full control this is scary stuff. Back to the question on suicides, hello!’

First @JaneDoe thank you for the cyber hug and the sensitivity. That was a second I did get some other loving soul reach out the other night. I had no idea the stake Pres who I did meet with and fell asleep while we were talking, (true story) he just flew in from, whatever........ Thank you for answering my questions but the ghosting is indeed going on but it is what it is. It tells me more about the need of one person to control then being a spiritual sister. If I knew the policies and the paramilitary like structure I would have known its not something I can do or want to do. Constantly being punished and judged. I know what's going on its ok no need to put it on here the church watches and reports everything to protect an image its fine. Thanks again, we can be two different people in the same church and see the world so totally different. Peace and love, Inquisitive.

@lostinwater did I just read that correctly, electric shock aversion therapy? Blink, blink are you serious? Who would authorize such insanity. Isn't some of these beliefs against the law? One might ask why is there so much anexoria, anything that has to do with control and perfectionism. Look around, you see very few girls overweight. How are they treating anexoria, this whole thing is seeming more and more bizarre. in answer to @anatess2 that would be impossible if your heart is where you are supposed to be. It is not my intention it is simply my opinion. However your jump to the defense of a church that doesn't need you or me to defend it or my comments could never move its unshakable stability. I am simply asking some questions and they are observations and opinions. Of course they are mine and its regarding a culture that seems very bizarre to a person that is trying to understand it, I am sorry you are not able to see that. Discussion is good it opens our minds, that's how we learn, by teaching and growing. Surly you can see how something's seem odd to an outsider?

A@NeedleinA we are talking about suicide right? We are talking about pain and mental illness do you not read that do you not see that? Immediately you blame the person who is obviously struggling (me) for what can I give back to the church. How can I make myself happier, why does the church have such a high rate of suicide? Nothing clicked, that's why people commit suicide because there is NO ONE HOME. You are blaming the suffering person who is stuck by saying its you, you are not doing enough, you are not working hard enough, not trying enough NOT< NOT NOT. If anyone is in pain or thinking about suicide just show up, listen and keep the blame and perfect judgements to yourself. Sadly you are clueless.

Help me out here. I never even had a clue that the church had the right to discipline a member. It made my stomach sink into a dark place like what the .......? Reading about how to take your names off the LDS official registry, and what that entails I read that the church no longer has the authority to......and I saw the word discipline. No one ever told me that I was signing up for anything other then LDS, baptism and trying to be a better person. That was what I thought conversion was all about. And then came some odd things in my life when i tried to leave. Not going to go on about it here, its the wrong venue. My question are real, i am in a very bad place. Spiritually, emotionally with trust issues and feeling very blindsided. What authority does the church actually have in a persons life? Isn't that over reaching the separation between church and state? What exactly is excommunication and what does that mean? WHAT is discipline and why if you have a disagreement with a member does the church ghost you and try and make you feel as the bible would say, separation from God is like being in hell. Wait up, the church is a bldg, and we have bibles and BOM and GOD in our heart NO MATER where we go? What gives certain people in church the authority to "ghost" a person so they feel alniated and alone. is that silent treatment part of a discipline process and am I losing my mind? Who does this to a person? and yes its being done. Please be honest and tell a convert what in LDS name is going on and how do you untie yourself from the lambs book of life and is it ever really possible? Why is it so important for the church to have a roll call official list of names? Am I doomed to hell if i leave? I am serious what is the churches rights vs mine and what did i sign up for?

Ultimate vision......as long as you have 70 year old men sitting on the seats of the ultimate higher authority, fogeddabout-it no change happening anytime soon. As i see it, the old school guard thinks you let one in it contaminates the whole gene pool, even though they are in, just closeted and no doubt suffering. Thats what makes LDS so unique, the perfectionism, trying to be God on earth. What i do see happening is if anyone comes out (as gay) the church ghosting the person (s) trying yet again to prove that to be a sinner separates you from God, so they make time on earth hell. Now that's just plain mean spirited and judgemental. where is the love? LDS is unique to its 1950's charm, its 1800's pioneer busy bee heritage, change is not something that comes easy or naturally. A better question is why would a gay person what to be LDS they will be shamed and ridiculed and never feel loved. Thats my opinion, not big on learning lessons from Jesus, like hate the sin love the sinner. Lying in the dark ages.

I just decided to poke around, so nurero typical is indeed very typical. thin skinned and thinks he she is slick and smarter then people who really HAVE experience with suicide. But you'rre smarter. Sorry you are the senior moderator. What do you know about suicide? What do you really kno Next time you are in a loced unit, with no one to call, you know not generations of family and a ward, let me know. Let me know how you worked your way out as a kid with no family. I am not going to put my business on this board, by now I know what I am dealing with. Proportionately the percentage of Mormons who work for the government is so high I forget I am in church and feel like I am in court. How dare they, share government misinformation with the people in the church. If the are going to share start telling the truth. Its against the law to bring in sensitive gov information with anyone, isn't that the separation of church and state? The church needs to decide if they want to play a court of punishment and mocking or have compassion and healing and become the LDS they profess to be. They need to be honest with the people and let them know if its a government agency or a house of God, it can't be both, if you think it can you are only lying to yourselves and the people. I forgot its more about who hold the POWER then who is well and needs help. We are going to MAKE SURE every bit of this last chapter of your life is pure hell, why because we can, we are GOD. Thats not Christian or LDS its being a show off and an over reach. Its sadistic and its cruel Its also not a sign that LDS is working for you, you seem miserable. Happy people are not into sadistic torture. You are as sick as your secrets and boy do you have a lot of those. yes, suicide can grow like a cancer unless there are TRAINED people to go to. I know the bishops do the best they can but some are just over worked and very young they just don't have the life experience of what it takes to deal with a person in crises. One more thing, there are them and there is us mentality, people can feel the prejudice. If there is one who feels slighted the whole hierarchy feels the same way. Own your own feelings not everything you hear is the truth. Why do you always protect the one with the most money? Its a house of God sometimes the people are last and the church punishing and manipulating is more important then healing and lessons of love and compassion from Jesus Christ. I never knew the church had the right to disciple a person are you kidding me? No wonder there is suicide, its a church not a court room. . The entire church shameing a person to leaving when they are in crises by "ghosting" them is an old psy-op manipulation tactic. Why because it hurts. Those are some of the reasons people commit suicide. I know someone is smarter and or will have to jump on board and condemn me., I have a secret God doesn't need you or I to keep score, He does very well without us. .

I am not going to apologize if you disagree, you are entitled to your opinion. That is mine. I would welcome to hear more, sadly we can't hear from those who have passed. I know what I am going though, if i didn't think i would get punished more in this time of need i would share then you come to a conclusion. One more thing, to those who have committed suicide, we know they felt isolated and alone. That there were no options, that it was the only resort to the pain and SHAME or anger they were feeling. There is something that is out of touch, its the powerlessness of feeling misunderstood or that your voice had no validation. Its not complicated each situation different but the feelings are usually the same. No happy solution, no one that they could share with no solution to the problem. Live in the problem or solution, to often the solution is to read a chapter in a book and thats not a solution. It may be the best they know but its often more harm then good. Its not an action its to passive. When a person is suicidal you need action not some passive read this chapter and see where you may have sinned, or worse yet have someones gossip believed.

People commit suicide for a few reasons, usually its feeling very angry and powerless. Or so hurt and sad there is no way out. The church isn't big on feelings they seem to thrive on blaming and shaming people. If you are hurting or in a situation the church will probably find someone who isn't qualified to teach them a lesson, how powerful the church is. Whats more important the power of the church or the person who is inside it? What is the power of the church its made up of people. Are you going to reach out IN LOVE to the member or have someone who never experienced what they are going though blindside them and all in unison turn their back on the person? People are afraid to talk they are afraid of losing temple recommend, they live in fear. One of the meanest things is to have the church all stick together and shame a person out. Its a church. There are also people that never worked outside the home, and their life has been kids the church and husbands money. They have no idea what its like to struggle as a single women. Yet they are given authority in the church. Sometimes you feel like you are being gangstalked, its a bad feeling. An over reach of power with this silent lesson. The message they are sending is you are useless and by the way we treat you, we want you to believe it. It many not be obvious to them but its being done. Then people are in denial and say, Oh I only wanted to help, help what them commit suicide? Monitoring everything that people say or write is another thing, let people be themselves you don't have to die because you disagree, however the church will make you feel that way. They all gang up. Thanks for the spirit its mean. Make up your minds you are a church or a police, why don't you trust people more, why the constant checking up on them? Thats control and its back stabbing. Those are some of the reasons feeling TRAPPED, Church should be freeing and feeling fed not powerless and in prison or perfect and never good enough.. Its not a competition, its life.

I can't speak about Mormon men, I never dated one. I did go on a dating site, and found them very rigid compared to men that are not religious. Was that the few old-er men on the dating site, we are all old and bitter who knows. They were very different. The culture is different, seemed much thinner skinned and easy to snap to judgement. Is that all religious men? I doubt it maybe its part of being untra conserative. The young men i see today seem like excellent fathers, they are very hands on and are good providers. I am in a big city and its not the average. Personally I think its ridiculous that men have the last word. Many women can't have children, other women wear their pregnancies as a badge of honor. All they talk about is their babies and being pregnant. A bit boring but its their family they have a right. I can't say I wouldn't be proud of my family I am sure i would be. Once, twice but when you start with huge families its a bit much. Sometimes I think life would be easier if women stayed home and were homemakers and didn't have to work. I honestly don't know how women work and have chidren, I give them a lot of credit its exhausting. What was the question, men and womens roles? They are all mixed up today, in the church it makes me feel invisible but thats just me.

I know a lot of Jewish people, grew up around more Jewish then Christians so don't get me started :). Beng a minority works both ways, its hard to be the odd one out. Without shaming and blaming, if you mean how to we find Jewish people open to conversion NOT! Out of the question they don't want to hear it. They have been some of the kindest and most wonderful people in my life and some of the most viscious. STRONG feelings to say the least. What I do like about them is you can talk to them, I see them as approachable, I have learned much from Jewish people. You can have differences and still respect. They know about Jesus, I think we are in a spiritual war, there is a lot going on in the world today. That would be NWO and Zionism, Christian Zionism. That might be a better question. How much do you really know about Christian zionism and do you support it as a religion or do you see it as a political movement. Those are HUGE and whats running the world today. I think most people don't undersand zionism, best to read up and learn. That is who is making the decisions for our future. along with Mormons and NWO, i could be wrong but if suffering is part of the plan, I get the plan. I support Israell because the bible tells us to as Christians. Does Israel need us meddling, no, will they take our help, of course. Is it a real democracy? umm up for debate, they don't allow you to bring out the BOM and prostize so there is a mutual respect as long as you don't cross the limits, they are firm on that.

Oh in answer to your question because thats Jewish tradition. Men on one side of temple women on the other. In reformed Judaism there are not women Rabbi's that would have been a no no years back. Like priests not being able to marry, each have their own set of rules. Does it have to make sense, you are asking the wrong person. I could never be in the military structure and orders are hard for me. When you had parents who were inflexable and brick walls as far as discipline thats not discipline its control There is a difference.

Hey I am a convert new to all this, because they were the Quarum of the 12? Not even sure I am saying that correctly. They hold the higest power in "the church" I call it The Supreme Court. Kind of looks like that doesn't it? It was a talk on pettyness, one said, "get over it" well if you can't talk, what you don't talk about will be repeated only in secret.

I am glad your brought it up. I just listened to one of the apostle talk about Satan. He is looking for MEN, SOLDIERS, PRIESTHOOD people to spread and speak the gospel of Jesus Christ. I would imagine that women are home with children. I find it very 1950's. When brought up to a senior women who I respect as a Mormon, I asked her does she feel like she has free agency? She was rattled and defensive. Of course I do!! Life like everything is all in the perception. Compared to churchs where women are ordained ministers and have much to add, its not equil, it obviously never was meant to be. Doesn't the bible say man and women should be equally yolked? What does that mean? I think its humiliting that women are supposed to discuss with men who have a calling often many years their junior very personal things. Some of the comments are ludicris. Does it bother me, yes, will it change anything in the church? Never, men hold the authority and women have a role, its just never spoken of. Really its to have children, there are not many women who do not have children. Its the church culture, I learned there is no sense in even mentioning these things the chuch is kind of a social bubble they just don't see it or don't care. It makes me feel invisible but its not about me, its about authority. Oh wait it was about God and Jesus Christ. Hmmm.