Third Hour Forum Rules - Please be familiar with these rules before posting

LatterDSaint

Members
 View Profile  See their activity

  • Posts

    132

  • Joined

  • Last visited

 Content Type 

Posts posted by LatterDSaint

  1. The election

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    1 minute ago, NeuroTypical said:

    And another one of those pesky site rules.

    Seriously, certain poster who knows who you are.  Stop digging your hole.  At this point, it looks like you're intentionally trying to provoke the mods.  

    I'd love to keep you around, but you have to abide by the same rules as everyone else.

    I never had an issue with any particular mod or administrator. I simply disagreed with the claim that the site rules were "clearly" outlined, since "tone of discussion" is extremely arbitrary and subjective. I stick by that because it is the truth. 

  2. The election

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    1 minute ago, estradling75 said:

    Maybe if you asked for clarification before before you attack someone as being dishonest...  You would find that you were completely misunderstanding the point they were making

    I have a point to make. And it is not meant to attack you. 

    Part of why I feel the discourse in the United States has become so polarized is because people say things or write things irresponsibly, then when called out for their carelessness, they manipulate the context of what they said with examples such as: I didnt say that (followed by) And if I did he didnt mean that (followed by) And if I did, you didnt understand it (followed by) And if you did, it doesnt actually even matter (followed by) well you have said this right?

    Why is it a bad thing to grant people the benefit of doubt that they meant exactly what they meant to say the first time around? If I am being encouraged not to do this, then what does that say about the people I am interacting with? 

     

     

  3. The election

    in General Discussion

    Posted · Edited by LatterDSaint

    10 minutes ago, NeedleinA said:

    The assertion then becomes, if there are individuals who see the election as still 'contested' they must therefore be dishonest?

    If individuals who see the election as still "contested" *equivalent to the way that the Al Gore vs Bush election was contested* then absolutely yes they are being dishonest. 

  4. The election

    in General Discussion

    Posted · Edited by LatterDSaint

    24 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

    Just a reminder of the site rules, to which we all agreed in order to create an account here.  Especially site rule #3 and 4.

     

    Someone accused me of "attacking" someone. If such is true then I apologize. I believe honesty should prevail in all our dealings, whether it be in person or online. And if we perceive someone is being dishonest towards us or other members on this site, then we should dutifully explain how they were being dishonest and seek to correct it. I'd be very surprised if the site rules contradicted this. 

    Im also very surprised that I'd be experiencing censorship on this site which I do believe is more conservative leaning. It looks like a ton of my posts have been removed because correction, has been perceived as "attacks". I wanted to get away from Twitter for a while, but it looks like im not safe from censorship anywhere. Very disappointing

  5. Kissing and making out before marriage? My friend told me that I should accept his standard on this

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    15 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

    The part I’ve bolded, is the part that caught my attention.

    How many girls have you had “kissing sessions” with?

    Of those girls, how many of the relationships turned out to be “secure”?

    Answer:  unless you are now married, the answer is zero.  You didn’t have a secure relationship with any of those girls.  If you had, the relationship wouldn’t have ended.

    So now, you’ve got a bunch of failed relationships where either you, the girl involved—or both of you—thought it was serious and committed, and it really wasn’t.  And so the breakup becomes, not an amicable parting of two good people who on further investigation simply turned out to be incompatible; but a betrayal, a reminder of unmet expectations and unkept promises.  All of that leaves a mark, psychologically and spiritually.  It impacts the way we bond, and the quality of future relationships. 

    God doesn’t want us to play around with people’s emotions like that just for the sake of a cheap semi-sexual thrill.  And we aren’t really doing ourselves any favors with that kind of thing, either.

    I’m not saying we should never kiss anyone we don’t plan to marry.  But I am suggesting that physicality cannot be cavalierly transactionalized without, to some degree, stunting our ability to form and enjoy and maintain meaningful relationships in the future.  Fully restoring that ability—viz, repentance—is not an easy or a pleasant or a short process.

    Thank you for your response. 

    I admit that I am still ignorant to beliefs others have about romantic relationships within the church. 

    Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe you are assuming that I am kissing multiple women at the same time. But even if I am mistaken, I acknowledge your points. 

    "How many girls have you had “kissing sessions” with?"

    At the risk of judgement, 3 in total

    Its true that my attitude towards kissing in the past has result in a failure of sorts as it didnt progress to a committed relationship likely because I assumed this person shared the same perspective I had towards it. 

    "Answer:  unless you are now married, the answer is zero.  You didn’t have a secure relationship with any of those girls."

    I assume that if I were divorced the same would still be said no? After all marriages, even with everything involved are not necessarily always secure. 

     "You didn’t have a secure relationship with any of those girls"

    Is the assumption here that I should be considering the relationship to be exclusively boyfriend and girlfriend before kissing happens? Personally I have never seen something like that before and can't even wrap my head around it likely because I personally do not consider someone I am attracted to a friend. I regret the use of "secure" as it appears to be confusing. I was not intending to suggest that the girls I have participated in kissing sessions with were each exclusive relationships. I meant to imply that I would feel more secure about their romantic interest for me through kissing.

    "the girl involved—or both of you—thought it was serious and committed, and it really wasn’t."

    It does appear that you are confused through fault of my own for not being clear. 

    "God doesn’t want us to play around with people’s emotions like that just for the sake of a cheap semi-sexual thrill."

    I do agree with this. Recently I should have done a better job incorporating this.

  6. Kissing and making out before marriage? My friend told me that I should accept his standard on this

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    I have had this conversation with my friend before where he brought up kissing sessions with someone you are interested in dating. This is the second time we have had a long drawn out conversation about it. Unfortunately I fell for his bait when he bought it up the second time and we had another discussion about it. He referenced the strength of youth with regards to passionate kissing and how because kissing can bring up feelings of sexual feelings, I should avoid it like he does. I explained that although it upsets/bothers him we just have different standards to him regarding this and that as long as the girl I am seeing 1. wants to do it 2. we respect each others boundaries 3. doesnt escalate past making out, then I have no problem with kissing and making out with another person. I guess since I have only read the strength of youth handbook earlier this year through him, I should understand why he is so adamant that I should accept his standard. Its true that I enjoy kissing girls but I guess more importantly, it makes me feel more secure about a potentially growing relationship. Can I do without making out with a girl, of course, but I think of the 4 pillars to a Christ centered relationship and the physical is just as important as the spiritual, intellectual and emotional pillars. 

    I didnt necessarily mind the conversation that we had. I enjoy and greatly appreciate talking about all sorts of things with him.  I think what bothers me is that I was fine with us disagreeing on it but he wasnt. I think what makes me disregard most of what he says is the fact that I would only seriously consider adopting this standard if the person I am seriously interested in held that same standard, after all I am not homosexual. I think what's also a little strange is that he is interested in the type of women who are the most likely to engage in the same behaviors. This doesn't make him a hypocrite but to me it does seem somewhat dismissive of reality in a way. What are all your thoughts. Like I said, I would likely only adopt this stance if the person im seriously interested in holds the same standard, so im unlikely to be convinced by anyone in the comments. But the discussion is open :)

  7. Can women have a healthy relationship guy bestfriend and their boyfriend at the same time? Based on what happened yesterday, I would conclude NO

    in Marriage and Relationship Advice

    Posted

    On a whim I traveled from Reddit to MormonHub just to get a more relative perspective for various topics I was reading about and it appears that this thread I created over half a year ago gained quite a bit of attention. 

    I save my login and passwords for everything so I had no trouble accessing my account again. The replies here are really thought provoking and interesting so much appreciated. As a brief update I did end things with my ex girlfriend. Which was almost 7 months ago. I found the situation to be impossible to move past. I was never going to feel comfortable with any level of friendship she had with the other guy especially considering the circumstances of the proximity they would have. It was the toughest thing I have ever had to do and it took me a long while to do so after a lot of helpful advice from my own friends and family to finally end it. But I thank the Lord I did. I may have been fully committed but my ex unfortunately couldn't be. With everything said and done I am content with life and moving forward with the direction the Lord wants me to go. 

    I still yearn almost to be in another relationship because of the intense happiness that is felt being able to open yourself up to another person in the way I did, but this longing is conditional on being in a relationship where our boundaries are compatible hence why I must take my time and be patient. I pray you are all well and are blessed till the end of days. 

  8. Can women have a healthy relationship guy bestfriend and their boyfriend at the same time? Based on what happened yesterday, I would conclude NO

    in Marriage and Relationship Advice

    Posted

    1 hour ago, unixknight said:

    @LatterDSaint I'm really glad things are working out for you!  😊

    And yeah I tend to analyze things heavily, much to the annoyance of my wife.  It's part of the "Deluxe Special Edition SE Introverted Brain" package.  I hope that hasn't brought you any of the resentment you were concerned about.  

    I gave my girlfriend a back massage yesterday after I read your post which but at the time I guess I forgot about it since she knocked out 4 hours of study and she deserved the massage, so as I see it, there isnt any resentment lingering from the ordeal getting rehashed again haha

    2 hours ago, unixknight said:

    And yeah I tend to analyze things heavily, much to the annoyance of my wife.

    LOL I tend to want to get deeper and deeper into topics I discuss with my girlfriend which I think are important and there are times where she is very resistant to go further because she gets mentally worn out before me after a while of our prolonged back and forths hahahaha

  9. Can women have a healthy relationship guy bestfriend and their boyfriend at the same time? Based on what happened yesterday, I would conclude NO

    in Marriage and Relationship Advice

    Posted

    On 12/5/2018 at 11:09 AM, unixknight said:

    *sigh* I can see this discussion is probably over but these two pennies in my skull are gonna rattle around mercilessly until I shake them out via this post.

    The girlfriend was in the wrong.  Solidly.

    Consider the following red flags:

    • She met the 'best friend' at a time when she was technically single.  That means he saw her that way too.  The chances that a young, healthy male was looking for a platonic best friend in a single female are... not very good.  
    • She finds him attractive.
    • She got new clothes for the purpose of wearing while spending time with him.  Don't believe that?  She was with the boyfriend right up until 7 minutes before the 'best friend' picked her up.   That means she rushed to change into those pants rather than just stay with what she was already wearing… or she put them on after they got back to her place.  
    • They went off to a private location to spend time alone together, rather than say "oops, practice isn't tonight after all" and call it off.  They could have gone anywhere... A café, a library, for a walk around campus.  They went to her home.  
    • She did not invite the boyfriend to join them, and appears to have contacted him only after 'best friend' was gone.
    • She admits she has feelings for this 'best friend'  In light of this fact ALONE I would be terribly concerned about her motives in all this, even if she isn't necessarily fully conscious of them.  

    So you have here a girl who had feelings for another boy whom she met while single, finds attractive, had admitted having feelings for, is reluctant to distance herself from, and arguably met with him under false pretenses.  (They went to her house because the guy was hungry?  That's the flimsiest excuse I ever heard.  Go to McDonald's.)

    Bonus question:  Could this boy have been a factor in her deciding against a mission after all?  Had they met before or after she changed her mind?

    When my wife and I met she was in the "you can totally have a best friend of the opposite sex platonically" camp.  I disagreed.  She found that very troubling until an incident where one of her friends cheated on a boyfriend with a guy she was supposedly "best friends" with.  For me, that's a deal breaker.  Hard stop.  

    My wife has male friends and I have female friends.  However:

    • I am absolutely never alone with any female who isn't family
    • She is absolutely never alone with any male who isn't family

    These rules not only severely limit opportunities to stray, they also nicely prevent any ugly rumors from getting started.  That rule has only been broken once in our 11+ year marriage, and that was when one of my female friends gave me a lift to pick my car up from the shop.  It was a last resort and nothing happened of course, but I still felt like it was a betrayal of my philosophy on this.

    Maybe it's possible to have a best friend of the opposite sex, and a few people out there even pull it off.  A couple folks in this thread say they have that successfully and I won't doubt their word.  As a general rule though?  Nope.  Especially not when there's an attraction or *any* amount of romantic feelings on the table, even if they haven't yet been acted upon.  

    "Sweetheart, I care about you, I trust you, I respect you... but I just can't make myself comfortable with this best friend.  I appreciate that you've admitted having had some feelings for him and that you find him attractive, and I am also glad that you chose me...  But I'm just not comfortable on this one.  I am not looking to control you, or dictate who your friends are, but I hope you can understand why this case is unusual.  Remember that girl I dated once while we were broken up?  How would you feel if I wanted to keep her around as a best friend, spent time alone with her and admitted having romantic feelings for her?  I'm sure that would weigh on your mind.  That's why I've been careful not to hang on to any such relationships.  So as much as I hate to ask this of you, please let him know that you value his friendship but that it's better to put a little distance between you."

    Her reaction to that will tell you everything you need to know.

    Now, it seems she's already decided to put aside these male friends, but if they start working their way back into the picture in any significant way... I'd be done.  I think it is fair for her to have to regain his trust.  Entirely fair.  

    This is an amazing analysis of the situation. The detail and analysis based on how I described it blows my mind. I did log on just now cause I havent been here for a while and was curious if any new comments on this thread came up, but mind you  I have tried to close/ delete this thread a while back because rehashing it all again could make me resent my girlfriend somewhat because of what happened. 

    I really do like this site so I will share a bit more details on what has happened since. 

    To start off, my girlfriend has absolutely gained back my trust. I trust her more than anyone else second to our Savior Jesus Christ. 

    The fact of the matter is that her "best friend" who I had a conversation with now appears to be her "friend" nowadays perhaps due to his acknowledgement of what my girlfriend means to me after our civil conversation and also perhaps due to a situation that happened recently. 

    Obviously after what had happened things were a little rocky but she recognized the mistake she made that night and I believe my girlfriend when she promised that she wont put me in a position that made me feel the way I did again. 

    Now onto what happened recently. Me and my girlfriend often have dinner together and the girl I went out with once while we were split works near where we eat. My girlfriend and I both passed her and me and this girl waved to each other. Following this, me and my girlfriend were about to head into the dinning hall to eat but I doubled back and firmly asked my girlfriend "Can we say hi to (girl I went out with once)?" and my girlfriend gave a slight nod of approval. Unbeknownst to me, it was extremely awkward for my girlfriend even as my arm was around her while I was talking to (girl I went out with once). After a minute of talking I said bye to this girl and me and my girlfriend sat down to eat. My girlfriend mentioned that she did feel uncomfortable but said that "I can be friends with her" since friendships are valuable to her for reasons I wont discuss here.

    Later on that day, me and my girlfriend were hanging out and I mentioned how her "bestfriend" reminds me of a guy I am familiar with but not friends with. I mentioned this guy I am familiar with before to my girlfriend and mentioned how I wouldnt want her hanging around that type of person because he is a flirt and doesnt seem interested in a serious relationship which is similar to my girlfriend's friend (who is on her team btw) from my perspective. After my comment, my girlfriend opened up about how what happened earlier had been weighing on her mind, and through discussion between her and I, which led to emotions, I recognized how what I did made her uncomfortable. At the time, I hadn't contacted this girl since I got back together with my girlfriend (about three weeks before), apart from accepting her friend request (at the approval of my gf) and I also want my girlfriend to meet her and I also felt that a wave to this girl wasnt the most respectful act I could have shown hence why I wanted to say hi, but I fully recognize how this was not appropriate with or without my girlfriend being there. I too was very apologetic because my girlfriend helped me understand that I took away from our time to have dinner, to "touch base" with this girl who I was obviously interested in the period before me and my gf got back together. Even through this, my girlfriend made a point where she recognized how her friendship with this guy on her team will always make me slightly uncomfortable and how she experienced a similar type of "betrayal" I must have felt back then, so whilst it was not a premeditated act of revenge by me, I think my girlfriend fully understands the reality of making each other uncomfortable especially when it comes to how we behave around people of the opposite sex where there is some historic connection no matter how innocent or platonic it may appear.

    Perhaps she and I should make a pact that anytime either of us say the line "he/she is just a friend (who is single)" we should end that friendship immediately lol. Her guy friend is on her team so I am well aware that a friendly relationship between them is inevitable given their emotional (non physical) history, so its something I have gotten used to. I know she loves me and respects our relationship, hence why I love her and trust her. 

     

  11. Can women have a healthy relationship guy bestfriend and their boyfriend at the same time? Based on what happened yesterday, I would conclude NO

    in Marriage and Relationship Advice

    Posted

    On 11/9/2018 at 8:26 AM, MormonGator said:

    It would actually be a bigger loss to her boyfriend and my wife, but thank you! 

    Hi Gator. I am curious looking back on this thread. If this bestfriend of yours wasnt in a relationship of her own, is it likely that your wife would have a different attitude towards your relationship with her?

  12. Can women have a healthy relationship guy bestfriend and their boyfriend at the same time? Based on what happened yesterday, I would conclude NO

    in Marriage and Relationship Advice

    Posted

    On 11/9/2018 at 9:52 AM, Carborendum said:

    Be aware of the trade off you're making.  Courtships in this situation to last "a few years" will often result in breaking the law of chastity or breaking up entirely -- or both.

    I don't know how old you are.  And I don't know what potential you have for income.  But people do get married when they are very poor and are still able to make financial sacrifices to make it work without government or family assistance.

    I can't tell you not to do this because it is your decision.  And to be truthful I can't relate.  I've always been an overachiever and workaholic.  So, I was always able to find work and support myself and my family.  Sometimes required more sacrifice and budget trimming than others.  But we always got by.  As students, we probably made more money than anyone else did (who was not on an allowance from mommie and daddy).  I had three jobs.  My wife had one.  We made it work.

    Carborendum Hi.

    Would you mind letting me in on what form of birth control you and your wife? Was it 100% effective? 

  14. Can women have a healthy relationship guy bestfriend and their boyfriend at the same time? Based on what happened yesterday, I would conclude NO

    in Marriage and Relationship Advice

    Posted

    1 minute ago, Jane_Doe said:

    playing mind games with them

    Im not playing any mind games lol. Are you saying that me describing the reality of what happened is playing mind games? Look I trust her but Im not an idiot. Whether she realized it or not she did dress in a certain way that day after I left and right when she knew her friend was about to pick her up...

  19. Can women have a healthy relationship guy bestfriend and their boyfriend at the same time? Based on what happened yesterday, I would conclude NO

    in Marriage and Relationship Advice

    Posted · Edited by LatterDSaint

    5 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

    It sounds like you're saying she lied to you.  THAT IS A HUGELY BAD SIGN!!!  Drop her like a bad transmission.

    wow, i think its possible that she did not want to admit that she did dress the way she did for her friend's sake. I mean, who would want to admit that? But if it occurred subconsciously then can I really hold her responsible for that? I guess I ought to if I consider myself a man...

  20. Can women have a healthy relationship guy bestfriend and their boyfriend at the same time? Based on what happened yesterday, I would conclude NO

    in Marriage and Relationship Advice

    Posted

    2 minutes ago, Suzie said:

    "My girlfriend told me last week that she would be jealous if she ever saw me hugging another girl. What are your thoughts on this? "

    She sounds like she is 9.

    wow. I really do consider her a mature human being. She has been there for me and we have had many important deep conversations about different topics and her reasoning has always been sound from my perspective.

  22. Can women have a healthy relationship guy bestfriend and their boyfriend at the same time? Based on what happened yesterday, I would conclude NO

    in Marriage and Relationship Advice

    Posted

    2 hours ago, Vort said:

    ome people seem to find jealousy to be sort of exciting and a confirmation of one's affection. It is neither of those. It is childish and possessive. Jane_Doe is certainly right about that part, however you may feel about her take on opposite-sex friendships.

    This is a really interesting point. All of a sudden I am not sure that we are going to be able to make it work. She mentioned before that she would feel jealous if she ever saw me hugging another girl and I can admit that I did feel jealous that when her plans changed, she chose to spend that time with another guy instead of me. Thing is, is this feeling even something I can overcome? I cant think that I would be fine with the lack of advisement in any relationship. It did feel as though she considered spending time with her friend once she got the opportunity to more important than making sure I would be ok with it in the first place. I think the "I made it home" really sours it for me. You dont "make it home" after spending an hour and thirty minutes with a guy at your place. I really am driving myself insane with this arent I?

  23. Can women have a healthy relationship guy bestfriend and their boyfriend at the same time? Based on what happened yesterday, I would conclude NO

    in Marriage and Relationship Advice

    Posted · Edited by LatterDSaint

    2 hours ago, Latter-Day Marriage said:

    and my suspicious side would wonder what the change of clothes was for. 

    So I actually pointed this out to her. I told her that I have read on many past experiences that whenever partners change into clothes that look nicer (she did exactly this) they are usually doing this to please or impress another person not in the committed relationship. So I said to her that whether she consciously or subconsciously realized it, its likely that her decision to change her clothes was to look good for her guy friend that was about to take her to their class in his car. She responded that she felt really uncomfortable in the clothes she was wearing and "changed when she got home". But when she got home, we hung out at her place waiting for her friend to confirm that he could take her to practice and she wasnt wearing the same clothes after I came back to her place to hang out with her. So I mentioned that she changed her clothes right after her guy friend said he was coming over and right after I left which she admitted to and realized that she probably did do it to look good for her friend. 

    Again I am not accusing her of cheating on me. But the deception was made clear especially when she texted me "I made it home" when she had been home for the whole hour and thirty minutes with this guy which I was never made aware of until after he left her place where he ate food.