isacarrot
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Posts posted by isacarrot
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18 minutes ago, Mores said:
First, was there actual false doctrine taught? Or was your interpretation of what was taught sound false? I'm asking because I wasn't there to hear his exact words or tone.
Second, are you just picking at nits? It is possible that the specific words he used were quite incorrect. But the overall message was still pretty much correct.
Third, are you likely to make any changes at all? Will anyone be edified by your correction? Will someone who heard it become confused and not go and look things up themselves and get correction another way?
Thank you for your response!
1) I paraphrased him. This is what he said, word for word, as best as I can remember: "When you die, if you're happy, you will be happy forever. If you're unhappy, you will be unhappy forever." This was in the context of explaining that we should stop causing our own sadness by guilting ourselves obsessively and denying the blessings of the Atonement of Christ, and that we should choose happiness. EDIT: I may have not answered your question. I talked with a handful of friends afterwards who were all convinced he had spoken incorrectly.
2) That's what I'm asking. I'm not sure that I am.
3) I think the most likely result is that he sends back an email thanking me for my thoughts and nothing more is done. In this case, I think that he might be edified in the sense that he is more aware of the effect of his words. Less likely, but still possible, is that he offers clarification next week, which could be edifying for those who mourn friends who've taken their lives. I think a more sensitive treatment of the topic and the humility exemplified by the teacher offering a clarification to his own teachings may bring the Spirit and edify all. You bring up a good point with your last question. As I did, I'm sure others have looked up official doctrine to know what's up. I'm worried about those who may not do that, but maybe my worry is misplaced.
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Hi all, looking for advice.
Last night at Institute we were discussing Elder Oaks' talk from last GC titled 'Cleansed by Repentance.' Our teacher, a member of our stake presidency, had us read Mormon 9:14, which reads:
QuoteAnd then cometh the judgment of the Holy One upon them; and then cometh the time that he that is filthy shall be filthy still; and he that is righteous shall be righteous still; he that is happy shall be happy still; and he that is unhappy shall be unhappy still.
Our teacher expanded upon this and explained that those who are happy upon death will be happy for eternity, and those who are unhappy will be unhappy for eternity.
My stomach tightened. A few people got up and left as he continued talking. I half-raised my hand to challenge this, but put it quickly down. I didn't have the courage to speak my thoughts; I felt ill-equipped in the moment to recite relevant doctrine in front of the two stake presidency members present.
However, I feel that something should be said.
First, am I wrong to think the teacher was wrong? Give me a sanity check. If I am unhappy upon death - not suddenly unhappy because I'm about to die, but an unhappy person generally, even depressed or suicidal - is there any official doctrine that necessarily damns me to eternal unhappiness? It seems like the Church has sent the clear message that we cannot be the judge on this matter, and that we should hope for the best. See Elder Ballard's October 1987 GC talk titled 'Suicide: Some Things We Know, and Some We Do Not', or Elder Holland's October 2013 GC talk titled 'Like a Broken Vessel'.
Second, should something be said, and if so, how? I think false teachings ought to be corrected or clarified if they have the potential to cause undue suffering. That was the point of Elder Ballard's talk: to correct and comfort those who held false notions about the postmortal state of suicide victims. I'm thinking about sending an email to that presidency member to briefly note what he said, give some links to what the Church has taught, point out the discrepancy and possibly the hurt that caused for some in attendance, and suggest that next week he offer clarification. From the little that I know about this individual, he did not intend harm with what he spoke and would be happy to offer clarification.
I'm a pretty young inexperienced guy so I'm hoping to benefit from your experiences and opinions. Let me know if you need clarification on anything.
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7 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:
This is amazing. Did I already say that? [scans up the thread] Ah - yes I did. Well, it's still amazing!
A few comments:
- Some of the promises are to "his family" "his brethren", etc. Since it's called out independent of "from whom", maybe update those promises to "Fred's family", etc.
- I wish there was a way to have groups or categories in the "from whom" and "to whom" selections. I want a quick list of all the Lord's promises to me, for example.Haha thank you! I think both of your comments are great ideas. I hope that this website eventually becomes more practical - in the sense that I can search for all the Lord's promises to me for example.
Continuing with that example, the tricky thing is that some promises are given by someone that isn't the Lord to someone else that isn't me, but still apply as if they were given from the Lord to me! For example, in 1 Nephi 13:37, an angel says to Nephi, "blessed are they who shall seek to bring forth my Zion at that day, for they shall have the gift and the power of the Holy Ghost; and if they endure unto the end they shall be lifted up at the last day, and shall be saved in the everlasting kingdom of the Lamb; and whoso shall publish peace, yea, tidings of great joy, how beautiful upon the mountains shall they be." Although this is most directly a promise from an angel to Nephi, it is indirectly but arguably more importantly a promise from the Lord to me and others in my era. The problem is that I'm trying to follow the text as close as possible when filling in the metadata - so this promise will not come up in the results if I were to search for promises from the Lord to me.
I'm not 100% sure what to do about this. Right now I have one tag called 'global', which I've used occasionally to tag promises that apply to all mankind, and therefore to me too. I might decide to use additional tags to help viewers make good use of the database. If you have any more ideas I welcome them! Still very much a WIP
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Hi all! Just wanted to announce that I just now finished indexing every promise/covenant in the Book of Mormon*. There ended up being 1,023 entries. The metadata is still largely incomplete and messy - that's my next task. But thought there might be someone who would find this interesting. Looking for feedback if possible. Cheers!
*except Jacob 5. When I have more patience I'll need to go back and do that
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Haha so I said the "Restored Church of Jesus Christ" in my first post since it rolls off the tongue a little easier and I thought it was even mentioned in the Church Style Guide.
I thought to look it up and in fact one of the 40 Latter-day Saint sects in Independence, MO is called the Restored Church of Jesus Christ! I was about to complain to the Mormon Newsroom via hotline when I noticed that the Style Guide actually says that "restored Church of Jesus Christ" with a lower-case "r" is appropriate.
So forgive me if I misled you into thinking I was one of the 20-odd members of the aforementioned sect. I'm sure you had all sorts of questions.
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4 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:
@isacarrot Great idea for sorting promises. Am I blind? Where is 2 Nephi? No promises there?
No you're seeing fine haha. I just haven't gotten to 2 Nephi yet. Check back in a month!
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I guess I've sort of introduced myself in other threads already - oh well.
I came to ThirdHour primarily to pick brains about a scripture study project I'm starting. It's in this thread. I've been a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints my whole life. Served a mission too. I've been reevaluating my beliefs over the last few years and it's been a thoroughly painful process. Still active and faith-seeking. My faith crisis is the impetus for my project.
I will probably be here and there, posting intermittently. I appreciate the warmth with which I have been received already
and I look forward to future conversations.
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18 minutes ago, Traveler said:
Thank you for engaging. Please note that I have stated throughout this thread that I believe everyone has a military obligation. Part of the problem may lie in the fact that many have become misinformed concerning the military. @Colirio has made some very important points about failures of education. One glaring failure of current education concerns the military. The truth is that only a minority of individuals in the military will engage in combat. Never-the-less, all individuals in the military complete what is called basic training. This is so everyone in the military will know what to do if all other defenses in place break down one must defend themselves and those around them. What I am trying to do is educate those that may think otherwise - that perhaps those that do not have such morals or values - are not good candidates of honor and trust.
I am not 100% sure but it appears the @Colirio does not have much respect for those in the military - Having been in the military - it is mostly those in the military that do not respect others - that I personally have difficulty. For example, I am not a fan of the culture of officers and enlisted. But I feel such things are different problems than those that think themselves above or superior to those in the military.
The Traveler
Thank you for the response!
Can you correct me if I'm misunderstanding you? You're saying that basic training includes learning what to do to physically protect yourself and others when other armed forces cannot. Also, that someone who has not learned this is not as trustworthy, and by extension (from what I've been able to tell from your other comments) should be barred from things like voting privileges and government welfare. Let me know if I didn't botch that up too badly.
With even my limited experience in the military I can already sense animosity between officers and enlisted. I hope that once I'm commissioned I can help ease that, at least within my circle of influence.
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I enlisted almost 6 months ago. I'm in a college program (not ROTC) so I've been minimally exposed to the military - nevertheless, I thought I'd jump in the middle of this conversation and share my opinion here.
I agree that citizens of a nation have a duty, to some degree, to defend the nation when the threat exists. People who claim freedom have a duty, to some degree, to defend that freedom when the threat exists.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the (false) assumption is being made that defense = military. Military is one critical way to defend a country. I think that there are other critical ways (through politics, economics, education, technology, practicing charity, etc).
I think it is therefore a fallacy to assume that some degree of duty to defense = a specific duty to military. Correct me if I've missed another premise stated somewhere in this 4-page discussion that will fill in the apparent logical gap
- JohnsonJones and Colirio
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Also yes @zil it's terrifying. The worst are people though. They seem to enjoy scalping and skinning us alive before finally eating us. Savages.
- askandanswer and zil
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2 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:
I'm a big fan of massive piles of data that are sortable and extractable. I'm impressed!
To make sure I understand:
[year] A = April general conference talk, and [year] O = October GC? Excellent.
Fulfillment = when a prophecy was fulfilled?
Where do you get the data for things like backstory and tags and whatnot?This is amazing.
Thank you for the kind words!
The GC labeling is correct. I would have preferred to have spelled out "Oct" or "Apr" so it's more obvious - but I'm using Google Sheets for the database and it's very quick to interpret that as a date and that screws stuff up. I guess I could find a way around that but I don't want to XD
As for the fulfillment, backstory and "purpose", I fill that in myself if possible, trying to be objective and use evidence from the text. You're right about the Fulfillment part. Tags I just sort of make up.
Maybe I ought to add a key somewhere to help people decode the UI.
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Hi all,
I'm starting a database of all promises, covenants, and prophecies in scripture: www.promiseindex.org
I wanted to post here to get your feedback about the direction I'm going. It will be harder to make course corrections once I'm 2,000 entries in, versus now when I only have ~200.
If you wouldn't mind taking a quick look and letting me know what you think (any initial thoughts? would you use it? suggestions?), I would be grateful.
As far as I've translated the forum rules correctly, this is the place to post website links, correct? Let me know if I'm wrong. I'm new
Thank you!
Should I correct my stake presidency member/institute teacher on sensitive topic?
in Advice Board
Posted
Thank you for your response!
You have a good point. Very likely there was no irreparable harm done. As Mores pointed out, many people likely looked up official doctrine later if they were confused.
I verified what I thought he said with others afterward and from what I could tell we had all heard him the same. However I'm confident he did not mean to make any doctrinal declaration about suicide victims, much less a damning one. However, that's one of the reasons I would like to say something: so he can be more aware of his wording in the future.
I appreciate that last thing you said. I wasn't sure what to say in the moment. But I think from now on, if this or something like it were to happen again, I would simply ask for clarification. It's a good way to go in case I'm completely off base.