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gclayjr last won the day on December 23 2020

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  1. JohnsonJones, I do like the Duke. I guess more and more I am understanding that my role in this at this time is to And I will have faith to to wait, see and learn how this or any anything else asked of us will lead to Tis is a time for faith in the Lord and hope for clarity when the time comes George Clay
  2. CV75, Pretty good ideas. I don't totally see how that would stop the destruction of the Constitution, but it is a pretty good foundation to build on, and I guess God will inform us if he needs us to do anything more. Thank You George Clay
  3. Traveler, I think we have even more in common than you realize. I retired 6 years ago from Rockwell Automation. As a man who worked with Automation, Robotics, and Artificial Intelligence, you must be very aware of my company particularly in regards to PLCs (Allen-Bradley). Although that was not my specialty. I was involved in MES (Manufacturing Execution Systems) or track and trace. Not only that, I graduated from HS in 1969, and took a slow trip through college. I joined the Marines in 1974 as Viet Nam was ending, so I also missed that war. I have struggled with this thread not to get into wild speculation about the time and place and nature of the prophesied time when the constitution would "Hang by a thread" I want to and try and focus on discovering what I should do as a Member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, and a holder of the Melquisedec priesthood do to do God's will should this happen in my lifetime. I find so much on describing the anticipated event and so little on our duty let alone how to prepare. I know many years ago Cloeon Skousen gave some lectures in regards to this, but I still have questions. The chaos of this election and the potential for destruction, has reinforced my desire to seek out to know. What should I, George Clay, do should it happen now? George Clay
  4. Website of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day-Saints God’s Hand in the Founding of America (churchofjesuschrist.org) Brigham Young Quote in it and I don't think that God thinks of America and the Constitution as 2 separate distinct unrelated things George Clay
  5. estradling75, I must admit this is the first time I've seen this interpretation of the prophecy. I guess under your theory, the American Civil war was no Constitutional Crises, because if the South had won, we would have 1 country still living under the constitution and another one living under another form of government. OK, While I don't agree, I do understand,. However, this still doesn't answer the question as to what we should be prepared to do as members of the Church of Jesus Christ and holders of the priesthood in order to fulfill this prophecy. George Thought Question: If the South had won and institutionalized the ability to "quit" the union any time we want to, would we be 2 nations today or maybe 50 or more and which one would be The promised land under which the continuation of the restoration of the gospel in this last dispensation might be centered?
  6. I'm sorry, I find it hard to even follow some of the logic here. In my poor analytical mind I can't follow some of the thoughts here. To my simple mind only the following is possible: 1) There was nothing serious wrong about this election and therefor no threat to the constitution or our liberties. This was proposed by Romas8. While I strongly disagree with it, I am not looking for a political discussion so I hope we can simply agree to disagree 2) There was serious corruption in this election which may have caused the person who was elected president to not be the true choice of the people, but that various events and things in our society will make it not so bad that we cannot have a reasonably fair election in the future. Something similar, though not nearly to the scale of this election, occurred in the 1960 election of Kennedy. .. not a constitutional crises 3) There was serious corruption in the election, Societal checks and balances have not nor will work, and the constitution and the "rule of law" have been seriously damaged, and we will not be able to vote in a fair election in the future. Many more of our freedoms will be taken from us and it will be harder to live a good Christian life ... but it still doesn't rise to the level of the Constitution "Hanging by a Thread" ... A serious break to the Constitution, but not requiring the Priesthood of God to save ... so just pray to God, and live through the persecution like the people of Alma 4) There was serious corruption in the election and the government, This election has broken that last thread, and we will need to save it. This may take a while and there may be a time delay between this breakage, and whatever is done by God via his Priesthood may not happen immediately. Nothing else makes sense to me. And while only scenario 4 would trigger Joseph Smith's prophecy, it still should be worth while to contemplate what we should be prepared to do at some future time when this prophecy does come to pass. George
  7. I am surprised.! Nobody seems to take the prophecy as written. Despite variations being repeated several times. Even though the Church website says: If I understand most people here believe that no Constitution will be saved, no country will be saved. Somehow this prophecy indicates that like the Jaredites and the Nephites, our government and will fall and that this prophecy is about Maybe I am at a disadvantage being an old guy with a degree in "Applied Statistics" from USU who worked for 40 years as a pretty hard core computer software developer in manufacturing. My mind has problem figuring out how you get from statement A to conclusion B. Am I the only one who thinks the actual answer is closer to the wording of the prophecy that seems to me to point to saving a Constitution which other of God's statements said was specifically inspired by him to bring to pass a government where his true Gospel could be restored in a unique country with unique freedoms that would allow this to happen? Am I alone here? George Clay
  8. Thank you for your replies. I know their is controversy over this, because of multiple sources. THe LDS church website says I have often felt a bit like laronius, ... just be good citizens. However, I don't see how this would "save" the Constitution. Usually, when this topic comes up, it is usually focused on when, where, and how the Constitution will hang by a thread, and what we are to do to save it never seems to get much clear discussion. I am pleased to see conservative politicians, and non lds religious leaders call for prayers to God to save our Constitution and our country. While I think this is wonderful, it seems to make it less clear to me what unique special thing we as priesthood holders and members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints should do to help save our Constitution.
  9. I am 69 years old, and over the years as things have happened to hurt our freedoms, I have wondered if we are living through when the Constitution would "hang by a thread" . I have always wondered what we as members of the church or Priesthood holders we should do to "save" the constitution when it does "hang by a thread"? With this obviously corrupt election and the fact that while many brave Americans have come forward to demonstrate this, nobody in charge is even willing to let the evidence be heard. I am also aware that there are many good Christians who have been praying to God to help save this country from a corrupt theft of our rights and to save the Constitution. With the recent rejection by the Supreme Court of the Texas case, virtually all visible paths to even giving a fair hearing to the evidence seems to have disappeared. I don't see any "normal" path out of this. It is not that important whether BIden or Trump becomes president. What is important is whether our election system becomes so corrupt that the people can never vote out the corrupt or vote in someone who is reasonably honest and believes in letting people live a Christian life. We have often been counselled to be loving and peaceful. and the 12th Article of faith indicates that we should submit even to corrupt evil totalitarian governments. So if my premise is correct, what is it that we as true believers in Jesus Christ, his restored Gospel, and the Constitution supposed to do to Save it? I have never been able to find anything other than to stand for the truth and proclaim it. But I don't see how it applies here. I have a true testimony of Jesus Christ and his restored Church, and know that in the end he will deliver us from evil. That doesn't mean that we may not have to live under oppression for awhile, like the people of Alma did, or the Citizens of Venezuela have been doing for over 20 years. I will willingly, if not necessarily joyfully, submit to God's will. However what is that? What are our duties as members of the Church to help "Save the Constitution"? I would love some insight into this. Thank you, George Clay
  10. anastessG2, I appreciate your recounting the history of the Philippines and their struggles. I have also noted that maybe today, people put too much faith in simply protesting. I watched carefully the weekend that they were going to try and push food and medicine aid into Venezuela despite the blockade. Actually, if you watch the videos, there was very little effort to actually push aid into the country and a lot more efforts into yelling and protesting. I guess they did actually try to get a couple of trucks through, which were successfully destroyed, but I think it would have had a better chance if they had put forth a greater effort in getting the aid in past the blockade, and less effort in simply demonstrating and getting posted on social media. Even when the power went out, all Gaido seemed to be able to do is get people into the streets and protest. While I don't know exactly what someone could or should do about the blackout, I do think that more effort should be put into walking the talk and maybe not so much reliance and simply protesting and talking the talk. Regards, George Clay
  11. I agree there is not much of a history of this. I'm not sure it has ever been tried like this before. However, I do think that it has a chance, and if it does work, it would be better than the bloodbaths that have happened historically. And while I know a couple of indigenous Venezuelans have already been killed, I am hoping that there is still enough humanity left among their military that they will not massacre their own citizens bringing food and medicine into the country. Is it guaranteed to work … No … Could it work ? ... I hope so. Regards, George Clay
  12. NeuroTypical A "Demise of a Dictatorship" is pretty straightforward, and has historically happened many times. He either gets on an Airplane and gets out of there, or the people size him and puts him into Jail. Regards, George Clay
  13. NeuroTypical. I think that our news is so self absorbed and politically charged that we get little news about important events going on outside of our own borders. Many charitable organizations have sent millions of dollars worth of food and medicine towards Venezuela. They have been stuck in Colombia, Brasil, and Curacao, because the Dictator Maduro refuses to let humanitarian aid in for his starving citizens. Tonight there is going to be a big concert in Colombia just across the border from Venezuela sponsored by Branson, and including many famous Latin Musicians in support of Aid to Venezuela. Maduro is setting up a Concert of his own 300 yards away in Venezuela to protest the protestors. Guaido has promised to get thousands of Volunteers to grab the aid and rush against the Venezuelan military that has been positioned to block this aid from getting into the country tomorrow, Feb 23. Most militaries, including those of dictators, are reluctant to shoot down their own citizens doing something like carrying food and medicine, especially if it is going to be photographed and sent all over the world. This confrontation could set up the demise of his dictatorship. Most Americans know little of this dramatic story, because all we can focus on is some actor faking an attack by Trump supporters. Regards, George Clay
  14. Just_A_Guy I would say one step at a time. I have long said that just because Maduro and Bolivarian Socialism is evil, that doesn't mean that the opposition is good, or in favor of a limited Republican form of government. Guaido is a member of the Voluntad Popular (VP) party which advertises itself as a progressive social-democratic party. I guess we will see how that plays out. When we have thrown out dictators in the past, there has often been problems related to the government we put into place, so why not let the Venezuelans choose their own? However, I think, conceptually, being able to overthrow a dictator by simply sending in humanitarian aid instead of a military force is great. Regards, George Clay
  15. There is a great push coming this week to send food and medicine to starving Venezuelans despite the Dictator and his army blocking food and medicine being sent to his starving people. Do you think that maybe Maduro and his brutal dictatorship could be actually overthrown by sending food and medicine to his starving citizens? I think this would be cool. Not only because an evil dictator would be deposed, but that it would be done by simply sending food to his people rather than by sending in an invading army. Do you think it will work? Do you think it would be good, if a dictator could be deposed simply by sending humanitarian aid to his people (oh and maybe a music concert for them too), rather than attacking him militarily? Regards, George Clay