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Mores last won the day on August 13

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About Mores

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    Beer Sipping Senior Bean Counter

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    Putting bread into the Piano Man's jar

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  1. Mores

    Punishment at the great and last day

    Short answer: You're conflating some statements without recognizing the flow of the overall verse. It means that even though we are redeemed from the Fall (whereby we are saved from Outer Darkness). But we still have some rules we need to follow (this verse calls it the law) and there are some punishments associated with them. That is, instead of hell, we have three degrees of glory. Long answer: We need proper context. In fact, reading the entire chapter would give you a better understanding of the topic. But you need background as well. Your question was about punishment (final destination). We can't talk about that without talking about the Atonement of Christ. We can't talk about the Atonement of Christ without also talking about the fall. And our sins and mortality are all around those topics. The verse prior reads: The "fall" here primarily refers to the change Adam and Eve went through to the state of mortality that we live in. It is a world where sin and death exist. By the law, Adam fell into a world of sin and death. That punishment is our inheritance from Adam. We all live in a world of sin and death regardless of whether we have faith in Christ or not. This is the world we all live in. We will all sin. We will all die. The phrase "and men are" is not simply that we exist. It has a dual meaning here. The verb "to be" (are) is the classical meaning of being alive and mortal (c.f. Hamlet's "to be or not to be" question). Men have a mortal probation so that we may find joy in the eternal realms. See verse 22 To the uninitiated, it may seem that staying in the Garden would have been a wonderful world. But would it? Why do you think God allows evil to exist? Why does He let bad things happen to good people? verse 23: Opposition is a necessary part of learning and growth. There was no ability to progress in the Garden. Thus, to a Latter-day Saint, it is hell. It may be a gilded cage. But it was still a cage. So, this inheritance from Adam is actually a blessing in disguise. It was all a necessary part of the story of this world. If you're familiar with the classical literary device known as the hero's journey then you'll know what I'm talking about. The thing is that this is not just a literary device. It is a very powerful and poignant commentary on the human condition. It is real. We all must go through the "death and rebirth" (usually multiple times) or else we are unable to grow to our full potential. And that cannot happen without trials such as we experience in this world. How we handle all these trials are what determines our eventual reward. In case you want an abbreviated version:
  2. So, driving home from work I noticed the following billboard. If you can't tell, the little flag on the upper left corner was placed about two weeks after that billboard started flashing this message. The flag is:
  3. Mores


    I've noticed that people are able to barely open an account and send spam via PM through Third hour. I've received spam in this fashion. Since you make it a policy to review all new posters posts for the first little while before their first few posts are visible, would you be able make the same policy work with PMs? Don't let them PM for the first week after their first three posts are approved?
  4. pistol: no. Revolver, rifle, carbine, shotgun, gatling, vulcan, cannon, genade launcher, bazooka, mortar...
  5. Mores

    So who’s going?

    I'll be sure to play the following requiem:
  6. Yeah. got it. Yes. Agreed. Wrong. Because she is young, she no doubt feels very strongly about everything she writes. Most people that age have only one level of emotion: Strong. And it is pretty evident that she believes what she wrote. Now, this is where you're changing your tune. It is one thing to say 1. It's just a ploy. 2. Don't let it bother you. Yes, I could buy that and go along with it. It is another to say 1. They did their job to stir controversy. 2. They didn't really write anything controversial. (I believe your words were: "It's no big deal" or something similar) I don't have time right now for checking the exact wording. Gotta go.
  7. Hmm... that is actually a reverse of the point I was making. Do you believe that is what the author was saying?
  8. Sunday, I think you're missing Vort's observation that you're making a contradiction. 1) It's their job to stir up controversy. 2) Vort reacted to the controversy as if it were, you know, controversial. 3) Your reaction is to say: They did their job by writing a controversial article. It isn't really controversial, so why do we care? Do you see your contradiction?
  9. Did you get that wisdom from Joe Biden?
  10. Unfortunately, there was no irony. It was planned. The rebellion was brewing. They saw the social winds were already moving the women of the Church in that direction. So, they decided to call it their own. Then when we saw more women wearing pants (as a natural fashion evolution) they can then declare victory and say that all women wearing pants to Church are part of their rebellion. "See how powerful we are?!?!" So, if the movement calls all women who wear pants as part of their rebellion, is it not the natural course for bishops to ask if a woman wearing pants is in open rebellion against the Church by wearing pants?
  11. It requires a bit of math from the sources I've gathered. But here it is. List shows US as #60 for lowest gun-related homicides (4.46/100,000 people). Honduras is worst at #75 with a rate of 66.6/100,000. NOTES: Statistics gathered were not available for every year in every country. So, some nations would vary position due to year. But this is the most comprehensive list in one place that I could find. This list is only of "developed nations" (Notice many African, Middle Eastern, and far east nations are not there). I'm only counting the homicides, not suicides or accidental deaths. I hope you'll understand why. I'm not getting into the debate on why that's correct. It is. See the graph below. Notice the points of interest. Anything from #1 (Luxembourg) to #52 (Cyprus) is pretty low. The slope is very flat. From #53 (Ukraine) to #66 (Phillipines) is a slightly steeper slope. These nations are actually "OK" but could certainly use improvement). From #67 (Panama) to #74 (Eswatini -- I've never heard of this nation) is pretty bad. #75 (Honduras) is in a class all by itself. I don't understand how some countries like Canada, Montenegro, and Serbia can have more gun-related suicides than homicides. That's weird. So, considering the actual rates rather than ranking, along with many other factors, holding #60 in this list is not that bad. It would be better if we were only 8 ranks lower. But considering many other factors, we're not too bad. Now we look at gun deaths in major cities: We find that New Orleans actually has the most gun related deaths. Calculating the total number of deaths and dividing by the population of the US as a whole, we're looking at about 7% to 8% range. That is enough to move us one ranking to #59. Now, one more factor: Gang violence: That means that if we remove gangs out of the statistic (much of it is drug related) then we drop all the way down to #54 or #55 depending on which statistic you're using. That puts us very near that slope change. Considering how much other crap we have to deal with as well as the freedoms we enjoy that other nations do not, gun control of law abiding citizens doesn't really make sense. No, removing the high crime / no-gun cities out of the statistics would not drop us to #52 or less (the golden line). But it gets us awfully close. All told, looking at actual meaningful numbers, we find that our gun-related deaths are already pretty low. And the single most efficient method of combating gun violence is not putting more restrictions on law-abiding citizens, but by combating gang related activities.
  12. Mores

    Figurative vs Literal

    So, all the flat earthers are right. Wow, I should rethink my world view. (See what I did there?)
  13. I agree with the general principle. I disagree with the application. Naaman's story should advise us here. The bar I'd set is when I believe there is something very wrong with a directive I've received, or if it will take unusual resources of time, money, effort, etc. to obey, then I need a firm confirmation to obey. But if it doesn't take much, why not? I find it odd that you set the bar for what might be termed "loyal opposition" or possibly "civil disobedience" at "I don't really care (possibly "I believe the Lord doesn't really care") and there's no difference in effort, so I'm going to disobey it." Very odd indeed.
  14. Mores


    Here's what a professional chef told me: So, a $5 bottle of wine is NOT what you want to cook with. That means you'd need to throw away a $50 to $100 bottle of wine. I choose to use red wine vinegar. I've had food prepared with wine, and, no, it's not the same flavor . . . at all . . . But it is still A GOOD flavor. (exceptions: some vinegars that I've had really do taste like wine with more acid). A good quality red wine vinegar will cost a bit more. But will have some redeeming flavor to it. I personally like my food to be more acidic. So, the vinegar part of it is actually a bonus. Others have more sensitive stomachs. So, they probably don't want to do this. And red wine vinegar has a pretty good shelf life. And you often don't use very much. Wine can require a couple of cups for a dish. But you only want a couple tablespoons of vinegar for several servings of food.
  15. Mores

    Fates worse than death

    For some reason some of the tags didn't take. Some did. I was one that the tag worked. So, I'll respond. What I'm about to say may sound like scolding. It isn't meant to be. It is what I've observed. Nothing more. You can choose to lash out at me for it, if you wish. But it won't do anyone any good, and I'll probably ignore it. I do NOT have you on ignore (officially). But I've been avoiding the thread because of exactly what you apologized for. Consider that many people are doing the best they can with limited information. They really don't know you. They have no idea what you're really going through. I don't know you. My heart is in the right place. I would really like to help. And I do what I think I should be doing to try to help. But I mess it up because I really don't know you. And because of that you got mad at me and many others doing the same thing. When you react like that, it is very difficult to not feel sympathy for those in your ward (including your bishop and stake president) who sometimes don't remember things the same way you do. And you decide they must be lying. Maybe they were. Maybe they just remembered things differently or used a slightly different meaning of a phrase or even misused a word. People do that. But when you immediately jump to the conclusion that they are liars, it sounds terrible. When you jump to conclusions about my motivations in trying to help you (because I really was trying) it makes me think you're doing the same with these others that you're condemning. It seems that the Lord has given you trials that you need to work through so that you can become humble. But what I truly see is that you have not been humbled. Yes, that sounds like a terrible thing to say. But remember what I said in my first post in this thread. If you let your past (including recent past) offenses go -- i.e. the hurt you've received from others -- and hand it all over to the Lord, you'll be amazed at how much of your physical, mental, and emotional woes will simply go away with them. Yes, you'll still have some problems that you have to deal with. And, no, they won't go away all at once. But most of them will gradually disappear when you hand all this over to the Lord. Part of that is to be willing to forgive. Be willing to love. In all the problems of your life, I don't blame you for complaining. I don't even blame you for complaining A LOT. Really, I don't. I think I'd be complaining a lot too, if I were in your shoes. But that doesn't change the fact that it is not a helpful behavior. Within all the time that you're recognizing your trials, you must also be willing to forgive and to love. I haven't heard a word of any love, forgiveness, or humility from you. You've shown gratitude, at least, for your friend and your brother. So, that is good. But can you show love to those who seem to be trying to help (but are doing a lousy job of it)? Can you forgive them for messing up while trying to do good? Can you humble yourself to realize that none of them owes you anything? It is true that the Saints of God are supposed to help those in need. Absolutely true. That is why I'm also disappointed in the people you are describing as not behaving that way. But also realize that they don't owe it to you. You have no right to complain that they are not doing anything for you. It is a commandment of the Lord. And only HE has the right to condemn them for not doing it. That is why you need to take this all before the Lord and ask Him for strength as well as relief. I'm not sure if you've seen the movie "Count of Monte Cristo". I thought it (the Jim Caviezel version) was a wonderful rendition of the book. You're in Chateau d'If. You're depending on God and staying true and faithful. Praying as much as you can. And all you have is pain, sorrow, injustice with no relief in sight. Then at the very moment when you think all is lost, and you are truly humbled, a glimmer of hope is offered to you. It doesn't look like anything important. But you're in such despair that any glimmer of hope will be welcome. That is exactly the way the Lord works. It is not just the despair. It is having all the faith in the world, letting trials truly humble you to the point where all you have is the Lord, that some tiny gift is offered to you. And if you take it in humility rather than "it's about time" kind of attitude, the Lord will begin bursting open the windows of heaven. Now, you can go ahead and yell at me for not understanding or for judging you. I'm not. I realize I only have a small picture of your life. I admit I don't understand. But I have given you the truth about those bits that you have chosen to share. I don't know anything more about you or your life other than that. But what I've shared is in an attitude of compassion and in the spirit of truth. I hope you take it as such.