dprh

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  1. Like
    dprh reacted to estradling75 in Living with LDS boyfriend, wanting to become member.   
    Indeed...   The sin in this case is breaking the Law of Chasity which is simply put no fornication and no adultery.  And you are right... cohabitation is not necessarily breaking the Law Chasity but it makes it so very easy and huge temptation. (Plus the whole appearance of evil thing)
    As you grow and learn the Gospel living the Law of Chasity is one of the things Christ will want you to do.  (Missionaries will help teach this).  Once you learn this for yourself... God is going to expect you to live it (To the best of your abilities).
    If marriage is not right (which it may not be at this time).. you might need to look to other alternatives to fulfilling God's commands.  That can also be very hard, but the scriptures are very clear that once we know God's will concerning us we should not procrastinate it.
    We know this... which is why members will be encouraging you to move in one direction or the other. (Marriage being the most likely direction.  Separating is also possible)
     
  2. Like
    dprh reacted to MarginOfError in Is this considered against the law of chasity?   
    I could actually look up the section numbers for the restriction on baptism.  But that is not the same thing as a restriction on a calling.  I know that probably sounds insane, but as a case study, there was a certain person in my ward that, if they had requested to be baptized, I don't think we would have been supportive of it (habitual, serious transgressions that were unlikely to change quickly). But, as it turns out, the person had already been baptized and began their descent into this pattern of transgression after their baptism.
    Their name came up as a potential primary teacher. The bishop was hesitant because he was considering disciplinary action. So I told the bishop, either call the disciplinary council or give them the calling. They won't progress until you do one or the other. This person became a primary teacher.
    I won't say that we hold pre-baptism people to different standards than post-baptism people, but we do sometimes respond to their specific challenges differently. Is there a case where I might give a cohabitating member a calling?  Maybe. Depends on a lot of different factors.  I just think it's important we don't invent requirements that aren't needed, or perpetuate requirements that don't actually exist.
  3. Like
    dprh reacted to Jane_Doe in Need Urgent help. Brother in Law Probably is a Sociopath   
    @faithful_father, I'm sorry you and your family is going through this pain.
    I myself went through a horror story of sexual abuse, suicidial by age 7, and lots mental health issues.  My husband comes from a similar background, had major outburst issues, and was literally told by a counselor that he was a sociopath.  I met him... well when he kicked me in the face with a soccer ball.  It was many rough childhood and early adult years for the both of us.  The road is.... honestly if you're not had a major tragedy in your life, I find mis people don't understand that-- don't "get" why a kid at the age of 7 would think she's so horrible that she needs to die to protect her family.  Don't "get" why a different kid would be so blind by rage to literally hog-tie & lock up any new authoritative figure.  They don't "get" that 'other' life and how it tears you in two.  
    However... they also don't "get" my love of the Savior on some levels-- how when I talk about Him being my Savior, I'm not just talking about saving from sins, but literally Saving my life from a horrible darkness.  When I talk about re-brith and Saul transforming to Paul, I speak as a person who's literally been there.  Who's had that horrible self-defining pain cast away and been made whole.  And likewise my husband: transforming from that rage-filled monster to a gentle & honest father.  
     
     
    You don't know what your BIL has been through.  You can't.  No other mortal can.  And honestly it's not your place too.  It's also your place to heal him, nor your place to dispense justice.  Though I COMPLETELY understand the impulse to want to tear BIL's throat out.  You want to protect your little sister-- that's natural.  
    But it's not your place to be her protector right now.
    Where she needs your right now: is to be a supporter.  To be there and supporter her, as she and BIL go on this journey.  It's going to be a long road.  She needs you to be there to listen, support her, and care.  Be there for her.  Maybe gently suggest counseling, even offer to help pay (if you're able to).  Be there, hold her, love her.  
  4. Like
    dprh reacted to mikbone in Holy Ghost - What do we know about him?   
    The Holy Ghost
    We do not know the Holy Ghost’s name, but we do know his gender. Jesus refers to the Holy Ghost with the pronouns he and him in John 16: 7, 13-14. And although there is some discord, the prevailing idea is that the personage that speaks with Nephi about the interpretation of Lehi’s dream in 1 Nephi 11 is the Holy Ghost.
    1 Nephi 11:11 And I said unto him: To know the interpretation thereof—for I spake unto him as a man speaketh; for I beheld that he was in the form of a man; yet nevertheless, I knew that it was the Spirit of the Lord; and he spake unto me as a man speaketh with another.
    Marion G. Romney, James E. Talmage, Sidney B. Sperry, and Robert L. Millet all shared their viewpoint that the personage speaking with Nephi in 1 Nephi 11 is the Holy Ghost.[1] [2] [3]  These three references (the first is a General Conference talk and the other two are chapters in books) are excellent well written sources giving multiple reasonings as to why it appears that the personage is the Holy Ghost.
    1) In 1 Nephi 10:17 Nephi states that he “was desirous also that I might see, and hear, and know of these things, by the power of the Holy Ghost.”  And in 1 Nephi 10:22 Nephi testified that, "the Holy Ghost giveth authority that I should speak these things, and deny them not."
    2) Nephi never spoke of the Lord Jesus Christ as the “Spirit of the Lord” when the Master appeared to him on other occasions (1 Nephi 2:16; 2 Nephi 11:2–3).
    3) "Spirit of the Lord" phrase is used 40 times in the Book of Mormon and in all accounts, none of them describe Jehovah. In most cases, the Spirit of the Lord is used to explicitly describe the Holy Ghost. (Mormon 2:26, Mormon 5:16, & Moroni 9:4).
    4) In 1 Nephi 11:6 the Spirit of the Lord uses the word Hosanna and worships both the Father and the Son. The word hosanna is from the Hebrew - ‘please save us’.
    Offering the contrary perspective, Bruce R. McConkie in the 2nd edition of Mormon Doctrine under the title of Spirit of the Lord writes:
    "But when we read the account of the appearance of “the Spirit of the Lord” to Nephi (1 Ne. 11), we are left to our own interpretive powers to determine whether the messenger is the Spirit Christ or the Holy Ghost. Presumptively it is the Spirit Christ ministering to Nephi much as he did to the Brother of Jared, for such is in keeping with the principle of advocacy, intercession, and mediation, the principle that all personal appearances of Deity to man since the fall of Adam, excepting appearances of the Father and the Son together, have been appearances of Christ."
    Personally, I like the idea that the Holy Ghost visited Nephi and directly taught him the interpretation of Lehi’s dream. Nephi knew instinctively that this personage was a spirit. Nephi does not say why or how he knew that it was a spirit, perhaps the appearance of the personage was obvious. D&C 129 is a great chapter that discusses the differences and how to distinguish between resurrected beings, spirits of just men made perfect, and devils (emphasis on verse 6). Joseph Smith also provided the following statement.
    The spirit of a just man made perfect if he made his appearance he would appear or be enveloped in flaming fire and no man in this mortal state could endure it, but an angel could come and appear as an other man for Paul says be careful to entertain an strangers for some have entertained Angels unawares. But to prove spirits view the Saviour after his resurrection when he appeared unto his diciples. they were afraid and thought they had seen a spirit but he convinces them of their mistake by teling them to handle him for says he a spirit has not flesh and bones as ye see me have.[4]
     
    Furthermore, the Holy Ghost spiritually manifested himself during the Baptism of Christ.
    Matthew 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
    D&C 93:15 And I, John, bear record, and lo, the heavens were opened, and the Holy Ghost descended upon him in the form of a dove, and sat upon him, and there came a voice out of heaven saying: This is my beloved Son.
    The sign of the dove was instituted before the creation of the world, a witness for the Holy Ghost, and the devil cannot come in the sign of a dove. The Holy Ghost is a personage, and is in the form of a personage. It does not confine itself to the form of the dove, but in sign of the dove. The Holy Ghost cannot be transformed into a dove; but the sign of a dove was given to John to signify the truth of the deed, as the dove is an emblem or token of truth and innocence.[5]
    Image from the Book of Abraham -  Facsimile No. 2, figure 7

    Figure 7 – Represents God sitting upon his throne, revealing through the heavens the grand Key-words of the Priesthood; as, also, the sign of the Holy Ghost unto Abraham, in the form of a dove.
    I have taken the liberty of isolating figure 7, enlarging it, and rotating it right side up because it is upside-down in the facsimile. God appears to be holding his left arm to the square with his right forearm held before him parallel to the ground. When the Holy Ghost descended out of the heaven and witnessed the baptism of Jesus Christ, he was holding the arms thusly. The Holy Ghost had not transformed into a dove. Conspicuously, the officiator of a true baptism holds his body in a similar position, although mirror imaged.
    20.3.8     Instructions for Performing a Baptism
    1. Stands in the water with the person to be baptized.
    2. Holds the person’s right wrist with his left hand (for convenience and safety); the person who is being baptized holds the priesthood holder’s left wrist with his or her left hand.
    3. Raises his right arm to the square.
    4. States the person’s full name and says, “Having been commissioned of Jesus Christ, I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen” (D&C 20:73).[6]
    The baptism of Adam appears to have been performed by the Holy Ghost as well.
    Moses 6:64 And it came to pass, when the Lord had spoken with Adam, our father, that Adam cried unto the Lord, and he was caught away by the Spirit of the Lord, and was carried down into the water, and was laid under the water, and was brought forth out of the water.
    65 And thus he was baptized, and the Spirit of God descended upon him, and thus he was born of the Spirit, and became quickened in the inner man.
    We see the Holy Ghost associated with the Baptism of Adam and Jesus Christ. The mirror image of the Sign of the Dove is represented within every true baptismal ordinance, and the baptismal prayer ends in the name of the Holy Ghost.   The Holy Ghost appears to have a significant connection with the ordinance of baptism. 
     
    The Holy Ghost is the Comforter, Testator, Revelator, and Sanctifier.  He can warn and protect and is the Holy Spirit of Promise.  The Holy Ghost can testify to the truth of all things.[7] But the Holy Ghost’s main charge is to testify that Jesus is the Christ.  The Holy Ghost usually answers our questions with “a still, small voice – a voice that is felt rather than heard. It is a spiritual voice that comes into the mind as a thought put into your heart.”[8] 
    Of a personal note I have found that the easiest way to feel the confirmation of the Holy Ghost requires the following three provisions.  Please see D&C 9:7-9
    1) Have a question.  And study it out in your mind.  The more spiritual relevance contained within the question the better.  For example, you are more likely to get a response if you ask a question about the nature and mission of Jesus Christ than if you ask for illumination to question 39 on an Organic Chemistry Final Exam.  Truth is truth, but let’s be serious.  The Holy Ghost is more likely to answer our questions if they are of an earnest matter. 
    2) Ask the question in a sincere prayer.  And if at all possible, ask a question that can be answered with a simple yes or no response.  If we ask a question that requires a complex response, then the Holy Ghost cannot answer with a burning in our bosom.  Just because a question can be answered with a simple yes or no response does not mean that the question itself is simple.  It just requires the question to be well thought out and constructed.   
    3) Ponder, listen, and wait.  And most important, be willing to accept a no response.  If you get a feeling of confusion, or a stupor of thought, then the answer is no.
    Joseph Smith has also given the following commentary about the future of the Holy Ghost.
    Joseph also said that the Holy Ghost is now in a state of Probation which if he should perform in righteousness he may pass through the same or a similar course of things that the Son has.[9]
    Holy Ghost Yet a Spiritual Body - But the holy ghost is yet a Spiritual body and waiting to take to himself a body. as the Savior did or as god did or the gods before them took bodies for the Saviour Says the work that my father did do i also & those are the works he took himself a body & then laid down his life that he might take it up again & the Scripture Say those who will obey the commandments shall be heirs of god & Joint heirs with of Jesus Christ we then also took bodies to lay them down, to take them up again & the Spirit itself bears witness with our Spirits that we are the children of god & if children then heirs and Joint heirs with Jesus Christ if So be that we Suffer with him in the flesh that we may be also glorified together. See Romans 8 chapter 16 & 17 Verses.[10]
    The above sources, which come from two separate Joseph Smith sermons, agree that the Holy Ghost is currently an apprentice. And, if the Holy Ghost performs his role in righteousness, he will have the opportunity to take upon himself a body as the Savior did or as God the Father partook upon Himself a body. It is obvious that Jesus Christ and Heavenly Father took upon themselves bodies in a manner that was extraordinarily different than the rest of mankind. Joseph Smith also uses the phrase to ‘lay down his life that he might take it up again’ which he previously used in the KFD to refer to Christ’s power to atone and resurrect himself (John 10:17-18). Based on the KFD and the above two quotes it appears that the Holy Ghost is on the same path of exaltation that Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ have trodden.
      [1] Marion G. Romney, The Holy Ghost, Sunday Morning Session April 7 1974, Ensign Mary 1974
    [2] Sidney B. Sperry, Answers to Book of Mormon Questions, Ch 5 Did Nephi Talk to the Holy Ghost in Person, Bookcraft, SLC, UT (1967)
    [3] Robert L. Millet, “Another Testament of Jesus Christ,” in First Nephi, The Doctrinal Foundation, ed. Monte S. Nyman and Charles D. Tate Jr. (Provo, UT: Religious Studies Center, Brigham Young University, 1988), 161–76.
    [4] Joseph Smith, General Conference, Nauvoo, Illinois October 9, 1843 as recorded in James Burgess Notebook
    [5] Smith, Joseph Jr., Joseph Fielding Smith (Ed.).  Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Deseret Book, SLC, UT (1938) p.276
    [6] Handbook 2: Administering the Church, Priesthood Ordinances and Blessings, The Church of Jesus Christ of LDS, Salt Lake City, UT
    [7] Moroni 10:5
    [8] Boyd K. Packer, The Cloven Tongues of Fire, General Conference, Saturday morning session, April 1, 2000
    [9] Joseph Smith Jr., Nauvoo Illinois August 27, 1843, as recorded by Franklin D. Richards in “Scriptural Items”.
    [10] Joseph Smith Jr., Nauvoo Illinois June 16, 1844 “Sermon in the Grove”, as recorded from memory by George Laub in the Laub Journal
  5. Haha
    dprh got a reaction from NeuroTypical in Missions   
    OTM - The Only True Mission. 😂
    Otherwise known as, Oklahoma Tulsa Mission from Dec 19th, 2001 - Dec 27th, 2003. Due to the way transfer fell, I actually missed 3 Christmases. But it was really like only missing one because my family did one early and another late for me.
  6. Like
    dprh reacted to anatess2 in How do you handle depression and hopelessness ?   
    Service.
    It goes that when one is looking outward towards the needs of others instead of inward towards one's needs, depression recedes and hope builds.  So, my non-professional general advice to people is... to get a dog. 
     
  7. Like
    dprh reacted to Vort in Disgruntled about local policy.   
    I blame no one (specifically, not mikbone) for taking his children to see an apostle of Jesus Christ, or simply for going himself. But in general, I subscribe to the quaint and probably naive notion that I will be more blessed for obedience to my leaders than for fulfilling my own desires.
  8. Like
    dprh reacted to Traveler in Disgruntled about local policy.   
    I thought to tell a little story from my youth.  There was a old guy in the ward of my childhood.  I only knew him in his old age.  He was old and had no calling in the ward - but he always showed up.  Often in Fast and Testimony meeting he would give his testimony.  I never listened - he was too old to be significant - so I thought.   Also, in my neighborhood was a businessman that married the daughter of Elder Hugh B. Brown.  I did some yard work for this neighbor that was somewhat upper class (had a private swimming pool).  Often Elder Brown would visit and relax by the pool.  I had many opportunities to talk to him - we were on a first name basis and I thought myself more righteous for the experience.
    Then the old guy in our ward died.  Elder Brown was a close friend and came to speak at the funeral.  I thought to take advantage of this opportunity and so acquired a date to the event - intending to cash in on my special relationship with Elder Brown and empress a popular girl - or so I thought.  During Elder Brown's talk he said that the old guy was a righteous servant that had a personal knowledge of Christ.  At that moment the spirit spoke to me in a witness that this old guy had stood in the presents of Christ as had Joseph Smith and several others as recorded during the early years of our Church in this dispensation.  
    This spiritual manifestation changed a lot in my life.  I never thought that ordinary people in ordinary wards could so be visited by the resurrected Christ.  I thought such only happened to Apostles and Prophets or those destined to be Apostles and Prophets.  I have learned since this event that there are sprinkled throughout this church many great and righteous men and women as worthy before G-d as our Apostles and Prophets.  That we should be as appreciated of their wisdom and witness as that of ordained Apostles and Prophets.   Except that it is important to know our leaders that hold the keys - Moroni 10 points out that all saints have spiritual blessings and that all Saints should be appreciated and held in esteem. 
     
    The Traveler
  9. Like
    dprh reacted to Fether in Disgruntled about local policy.   
    An apostle coming to visit a ward/stake can quickly become a nothing more than a circus attraction for all members in a 100 mile radius. GAs attend stakes with specific needs and they give specific counsel to those in the stake. This seems to be one of those cases.
    I imagine Paul and the other early apostles had many private meetings that were held specifically for locals and leaders. But like us today, there is a time and season for all sorts of meetings. For example, not sure if you heard of this, but all the apostles speak to the whole world twice a year. And then there are the face-to-face events, Christmas devotionals, roots tech, and others. What great missionary opportunities they allow us.
    And of course the occasional occurrence when one comes to your own stake. How awful would it be if an apostle of the Lord came to speak to your local, small congregation of only 200-500 acquaintances only to find out 2,000 - 5,000 people from across the western USA showed up.
    Which brings up another major issue with allowing as many people as they want attend. I don’t know what the capacity is, but there is a definite fire hazard to having so many people in one church building. Perhaps this is the main reason to limit who is invited. They need to adhere to local fire code.
  10. Like
    dprh reacted to mikbone in Missions   
    Osorno, Chile.  ‘89-‘91
    After opening the call letter, I had to go to the the local library and do some research.  I found an Atlas probably published in the 60’s with info likely gathered in the 30’s.  Things had changed.
    I will probably go back for the first time next year to reminisce and catch a total solar eclipse.
    Children’s missions so far:
    Sao Paulo, Brazil
    Temple Square, SLC
    Phnom Penh, Cambodia
  11. Like
    dprh reacted to Fether in Missions   
    Good ole Kentucky and Indiana!
  12. Like
    dprh reacted to Traveler in Missions   
    I was called to the Northwestern States Mission (Washington, Oregon and Idaho) from 1965 to 1967.  This is the mission that developed the ancient but innovative 6 discussions and member referral, follow up and fellowship program.  When I was serving it was the #1 baptizing mission in the Church.  We also totalled more cars than any other mission.  I never wrecked a car but I did get a speeding ticket riding a bicycle.  I had a transfer from Boise to Seattle that was a greater distance than if I had gone home.  My most favorite argument when confronting ministers that wanted to debate doctrine - was simply; if the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was not the true church directed by G-d himself; that the young 19 year old missionaries would have ruined it by now - despite all the arguments no other church dare send out teenage boys as the bulk of their full time missionaries.  And if the church was not true that no other religion on earth would concern themselves or fear their members talk the the boy (and now girl) missionaries.  None of such youthful boys and girls have the supposed necessary education to teach religion.
    I was taught many things beyond teaching and baptizing.  We were taught not to use weak words or phrases in prayers (especially in blessings) - like "might" or  "pray that" or "we ask that".  My mission president said if we were called upon to give blessing in the name of Christ then use words appropriate for someone standing as proxy for Christ and according to the spirit.  To this day I am still astonished with the many miracles I experienced while serving as a missionary and the lifetime of blessing I have been giving for serving as a missionary.  It was a honor to serve under my mission presidents and with most of my companions (and as always there at least one exception).
     
    The Traveler
  13. Haha
    dprh reacted to Vort in Missions   
    IRM, the, um...Intimately, uh...Realistic Mission. AKA Italy Rome. And though I was only gone for 18 months, I managed to miss two Christmases. One I spent in the MTC. I enjoyed the MTC well enough, but it's not a place I would suggest for a wonderful Christmas. No chimneys for Santa.
    When I got home, I was rather entertained by how many friendly folks asked me if I spoke Spanish there. I mean, it's not far off, but given the name of the country, I'd think everyone would just, you know, infer.
  14. Like
    dprh reacted to Vort in Disgruntled about local policy.   
    Rather than jest about being gruntled, I spent precious moments of my life Googling the etymology of the word "disgruntled", and was well rewarded for my diligence. The word "gruntle" is from Middle English and means "to make little grunting noises", as when some people lift heavy (or even not so heavy) things.
     
    The prefix dis- is an intensifier. Put 'em together and you have a verb meaning "to grunt and groan a lot". Past participle adjectivize it, and voilà!
    "But WAIT! An INTENSIFIER, you say? How on EARTH...?" Well, yes, it is pretty confusing.
    dis- can sometimes be an intensifier in old words, such as dismay, where the "-may" part derives from the French esmaier "to disturb, to trouble". So if something really disturbs or troubles you, then you're dismayed. But not necessarily disgruntled.
    (As for Elder Bednar, bummer. Sorry to hear it. Enjoy your road trip.)
  15. Like
    dprh reacted to prisonchaplain in Supporting spouses in bishopric   
    Outsider counsel: Pray that the Holy Spirit will confirm YOUR calling as wife to a bishopric counselor. I know of two men who felt called to serve as clergy, but who ended up leaving that sacred role, because their wives never supported them. When he's called to a meeting, instead of being jealous for the lost together time, pray for God's anointing and wisdom upon him. When he's asked to participate in a difficult decision or process, instead of bemoaning the added stress he's under, pray for God's peace that passes all understanding. That you are asking how to help is a great sign that you will do wonderfully. You have the added assurance that callings are for a season, so no matter how challenging the role ends up being, "This too shall pass."
  16. Like
    dprh reacted to amykeim in Study Shows That Latter-day Saints Know Very Little About Other Religions   
    I think you should try to see the message they were getting at — that knowing basics about other religions enables us to be a better missionary, something Preach My Gospel talks about — rather than doing everything you can to tear them apart. If it wasn't important to know about other religions,  it wouldn't talk about it in Preach My Gospel. There wouldn't be entire courses devoted to it at BYU. There wouldn't be an institute class on it. There wouldn't be article after article in the Ensign about other faiths and the basic tenants they teach. The Church wouldn't focus so much on interfaith involvement. If we want other people to learn about our religion, the least we can do it be respectful and learn about theirs and why it's important to them. It's basic courtesy.
    ALSO, I never said we COULDN'T love people properly if we don't learn about their faith, as you said in an earlier comment. I said that it increases our love and respect for them, which I know from personal experience. Haven't you ever met someone of another religion and found the more you learned about their beliefs, the more you admired their devotion to their faith? Plus, I think the good/better/best would be to try to see other people's point of views rather than simply saying, "My own view is enough. It's not important that I learn about or consider someone else's." If there are enough hours in the day to write on this forum, there are enough hours in the day to spend a little time learning about other people who are different than you and what they believe.
  17. Like
    dprh reacted to amykeim in Study Shows That Latter-day Saints Know Very Little About Other Religions   
    I don't mind if people disagree with me. The entire basis of my article is that I enjoy learning from people who don't agree with me. I was joking about your "Whoop dee doo" comment, although I suppose I do think the phrase isn't the most respectful when it's used in connection with a point someone is trying to make. In any case, you all are stating and defending your points of view and that is okay and encouraged, so why it uncalled for when I try to defend myself and the way I think? It seems like something of a double standard: when I make a comment in defense of my thoughts and ideas, I'm told to refer back to the definition of a discussion list, but when you defend your comments and way of thinking, it's okay. 
    Plus, if you'll notice, I actually wasn't even defending my own comment — although I did try to explain why I think the way I think. I was defending someone ELSE's comment that was being dissected.
    Anyway, in response to your comments: 
    1. Obviously learning about other religions isn't the central focus of Preach My Gospel, but I didn't say it was. I said it was something it discusses, so therefore it must have some merit and importance. Preach My Gospel includes an entire list of reformers and information about them that are said to be used "only when necessary" — but you can't use them if you don't know them. Similarly, in Chapter 7, there's a study idea that reads: "Think about the cultural and religious background of the people you teach. Identify an aspect of their background that might lead them to misunderstand the doctrines of the gospel. Plan ways to teach these doctrines clearly." You need to know about their religious background and cultural identity to be able to help them clearly understand the gospel. So, like @Midwest LDS explained, I do think knowing about other religions is a valuable missionary tool.  
    2. Here’s the institute course. In suggested readings, you’ll see articles from the Ensign, albeit from the 70’s, that discuss what other religions believe. So perhaps you’re right; “article after article” may not have been the most apt way to phrase that. But there are more modern articles about tolerance and love for all religions, and respecting others’ beliefs. 
  18. Like
    dprh reacted to Midwest LDS in Study Shows That Latter-day Saints Know Very Little About Other Religions   
    According to me, I speak from personal experience. I can't even begin to tell you how many frustrating times on my mission would have been made easier if I had known a little more about the faith of the person I was engaged with and could hear what I was saying through their understanding. 
    Of course they had a knowledge of paganism. I point you to Paul's speech on the unknown god and their ability to defuse the situation where the locals wanted to worship Paul and Baranabus as Jupiter and Mercury. They recognized the popular myth about those two gods stopping by occasionaly, and used that knowledge to fix a situation quickly. If you are going to preach to someone it helps to understand where they are coming from and build upon the knowledge they already have however slight. Which is also what Ammon did. He didn't need to be an expert on the religion of the Lamanites, but he obviously understood enough about it to turn a conversation that was fruitless (Lamoni not even knowing who God was) into a magnificant conversion experience.
    I'm not trying to "move the goal posts". I was trying to have a discussion about some of the objections you brought up, and I was conceeding that knowing a little about something to pass an online quiz isn't that important. I know this may come as a shock but I'm not trying to attack you or your position☺. I strongly feel that learning about other's religious beliefs can be helpful to missionary work. I study more because I find religious beliefs fascinating, but I feel like encouraging more worthwhile conversations with others is a solid goal for us to reach for.  
     
  19. Like
    dprh reacted to mordorbund in Study Shows That Latter-day Saints Know Very Little About Other Religions   
    ETA: You can still do this if you want, but I found the linky to the actual quiz: https://www.pewresearch.org/quiz/u-s-religious-knowledge-quiz/
     
    Article cites how well the author did on the questions (10/15), and what the average was (7/15 for LDS), but I didn't see a link to take the quiz. If you're like me and want to feel all smug and superior, here's the 32 questions the quiz was drawn from (I'm using the paraphrased version from the link, I (Excel) randomized the questions and the answers):
     
    1. Who is most closely associated with willingness to sacrifice his son to obey God?
    a. Jacob
    b. Cain
    c. Levi
    d. Abraham
    2. What was the religion of Maimonides?
    a. Buddhist
    b. Jewish
    c. Catholic
    d. Hindu
    e. Mormon
    3.Easter Sunday commemorates what?
    a. Crucifixion
    b. Resurrection
    c. Last Supper
    d. Ascension
    4.What does the U.S. Constitution say about religion as it relates to federal officeholders?
    a. Must affirm that all men are endowed by Creator with unalienable rights
    b. No religious test necessary for holding office
    c. Sworn in using Bible
    d. Does not say anything
    5. Which of these is NOT in the Ten Commandments?
    a. Golden rule
    b. Keep Sabbath holy
    c. No adultery
    d. No stealing
    6. Which religious tradition is Kabbalah most closely associated with?
    a. Zoroastrianism
    b. Judaism
    c. Hinduism
    d. Islam
    7. Ramadan is … , , ,
    a. ... an Islamic holy month
    b. ... a Hindu festival of lights
    c. ... a Jewish prayer for the dead
    d. ... a festival for Buddha’s birth
    8. Which Bible figure is most closely associated with leading the Exodus from Egypt?
    a. Moses
    b. Elijah
    c. Joseph
    d. Daniel
    9. What is the religion of most people in Ethiopia?
    a. Islam
    b. Buddhism
    c. Sikhism
    d. Hinduism
    e. Christianity
    10. • Where did Jesus live during his childhood and young adulthood?
    a. Bethlehem
    b. Jericho
    c. Nazareth
    d. Jerusalem
    11. Which is one of Buddhism’s four “noble truths”?
    a. monotheism
    b. Buddha was perfect
    c.  every being has immortal soul
    d. the truth of suffering
    12. When does the Jewish Sabbath begin?
    a. Saturday
    b. Friday
    c. Thursday
    d. Sunday
    13. Prosperity gospel teaches …
    a. ... strong faith leads to financial success and good health
    b. ... God’s blessing is given to the poor who store up treasures in heaven
    c. ... to whom much is given much is expected
    d. ... easier for camel to go through eye of needle than for rich person to enter the kingdom of God
    14. An atheist …
    a. ... is unsure whether God exists
    b. ... believes in multiple gods
    c. ... believes in God
    d. ... does NOT believe in God
    15. Which best describes the Trinity?
    a. One God in three persons (Father, Son, Holy Spirit)
    b. There are three Gods (Father, Mother, Son)
    c. Coming of Christ foretold by three prophets (Elijah, Ezekiel, Zechariah)
    d. There are three patriarchs (Abraham, Isaac, Jacob)
    16. Which text is most closely associated with Hindu tradition? 
    a. Vedas
    b. Tao Te Ching
    c. Quran
    d. Mahayana sutras
    17. How many adults in the U.S. are Jewish?
    a. Less than 5%
    b. One-in-ten
    c. One-in-four
    d. Half or more
    18. What is the religion of most people in Indonesia?
    a. Hinduism
    b. Christianity
    c. Buddhism
    d. Sikhism
    e. Islam
    19. Who is most closely associated with saving Jews from murder by appealing to king?
    a. Esther
    b. Sarah
    c. Rebecca
    d. Ruth
    20. Which religion requires men to wear a turban and carry a ceremonial sword?
    a. Buddhism
    b. Islam
    c. Sikhism
    d. Hinduism
    21. What best describes Rosh Hashana?
    a. end of Torah reading
    b. New Year
    c. candles lit for eight nights
    d. Day of Atonement
    22. What is the holiest city in Islam, to which Muslims are expected to make a pilgrimage?
    a. Mecca
    b. Cairo
    c. Jerusalem
    d. Medina
    23. What is the religion of most people in Thailand?
    a. Buddhism
    b. Hinduism
    c. Islam
    d. Sikhism
    e. Christianity
    24. Which group traditionally teaches that salvation comes through faith alone?
    a. Catholicism
    b. Protestantism
    c. neither
    d. both
    25. What was the religion of Joseph Smith?
    a. Hindu
    b. Catholic
    c. Jewish
    d. Mormon
    e. Buddhist
    26. In Catholicism, purgatory is …
    a. ... an offering made during confession
    b. ... where souls are purified before entering heaven
    c. ... a purification process made during self-reflection
    d. ... where souls go for eternal punishment
    27. Who delivered the Sermon on the Mount?
    a. Paul
    b. Jesus
    c. Peter
    d. John
    28. Which is the Catholic teaching about bread and wine in Communion?
    a. They are symbols of the body and blood of Christ
    b. They become actual body and blood of Christ
    29. An agnostic …
    a. ... does NOT believe in God
    b. ... believes in God
    c. ... believes in multiple gods
    d. ... is unsure whether God exists
    30. How many adults in the U.S. are Muslim?
    a. Less than 5%
    b. one-in-ten
    c. one-in-four
    d. half or more
    31. Which figure is most closely associated with killing an enemy with a stone?
    a. Solomon
    b. David
    c. Isaiah
    d. Joshua
    32. Which religious tradition is yoga most closely associated with?
    a. Islam
    b. Hinduism
    c. Zoroastrianism
    d. Judaism
     
    I'll post the answers later (or you can look them up in the link).
  20. Like
    dprh got a reaction from SilentOne in When did temple marriage begin?   
    Sometimes I think it might.
    https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/13?lang=eng
     
  21. Like
    dprh reacted to Fifthziff in Speculation about same sex attraction and addictions   
    On the church website it says; "People who experience same-sex attraction or identify as gay, lesbian, or bisexual can make and keep covenants with God and fully and worthily participate in the Church. Identifying as gay, lesbian, or bisexual or experiencing same-sex attraction is not a sin and does not prohibit one from participating in the Church, holding callings, or attending the temple."  and also "We may not know precisely why some people feel attracted to others of the same sex, but for some it is a complex reality and part of the human experience. The Savior Jesus Christ has a perfect understanding of every challenge we experience here on earth, and we can turn to Him for comfort, joy, hope, and direction (see Alma 7:11–12)."
    So, there is no sin that has to take place to have that challenge in life, it is a part of the HUMAN experience, as stated by the church. If there was some sin involved in creating same sex attraction then nobody with same sex attraction could attend the temple, one would have to have those sins resolved. Obviously, having same sex attraction is not as a result of what the person did any more than the blind man being born blind. 
  22. Like
    dprh reacted to Texan in "It's time Christians started including Latter-day Saints"   
    Yes, it was indeed a fast and testimony meeting.  My girlfriend (a Latter-day Saint, although of course she self-indentified as a Mormon back then) had taken me there to introduce me to the Church, but a moment after we arrived she realized it was a fast and testimony meeting and she expressed great disappointment that my first visit would be on that day.  I never really understood why.
    Let me change gears a bit in this conversation.  A while back I listened to a fascinating podcast by a man named Bill Child, who was the son-in-law of R.C. Willey.  (Yes, that R.C. Willey.)  If I recall the podcast correctly, R.C. Willey started his business during the Depression as a door-to-door refrigerator salesman.  After a hundred doors had been slammed in his face, he developed a brilliant sales gimmick, and sales of his refrigerators skyrocketed.  He offered to install a refrigerator free of charge in a family's home and let the family use it for six weeks with no strings attached.  If they liked it, he'd figure out a way for them to buy it on time.  If they didn't, he'd come back after six weeks and take it back.
    The story played out almost the same in every home.  At first the husband might have been lukewarm to the idea of buying a refrigerator, but after six weeks the wife realized her life had changed immeasurably for the better, and she told the husband that if he refused to buy the refrigerator then he'd be sleeping on the sofa for the rest of his life, with all the loss of benefits that any husband would dread.  (Okay, so I'm embellishing this story a bit with the Lysistrata subplot, but you get the idea, and many wives did tell their husbands that the only way that refrigerator would leave the house was over somebody's dead body.)
    This strange litte tale is a perfect parable for how some converts enter the Church.  They may be aware of the Church's truth claims, but they're more focused on experiencing the Church, living and using it day to day, and just feeling how it improves their lives.  In the end, many end up "buying the refrigerator" because the Church has been a huge net plus for them despite doctrines that they might not understand, categorize as true, or even care much about.
    On the other hand, some investigators (like me) start with zero knowledge of the Church, and their first contact takes the form of a long list of truth claims expressed almost as mathematical theorems.  When we hear language like "the only true and living church," we are tempted to view these "theorems" as binary true-false propositions, and a single "false" will cause the whole thing to collapse, sort of like dividing by zero somewhere in a proof.  Over time, I have come to realize that this is not a particularly useful way to approach the Church, and that's why I said my life could have turned out differently if I had followed the refrigerator path in.  That first visit to the sacrament meeting caused my first domino to fall, and it didn't fall in a helpful direction.
    Recently I heard a snippet of another podcast that talked about "validity" and "utility" Latter-day Saints.  These terms were apparently coined by someone either outside the Church or on the edges (I only got part of the story before I stopped listening) but the point was that a "validity" Saint remains a member mainly because the Church is true, and a "utility" Saint remains mainly because the Church is good.   The speaker also claimed that men tend toward the validity side and women tend toward the utility side.
    So all this rambling boils down to a question I've been afraid to ask until tonight, curiously.  If I were to present myself to a bishop as more of a utility believer than a validity believer, would the bishop tell me my testimony was sufficient to proceed to baptism?  It's a question I've been wondering about for some time, and it's one of the reasons I started posting here.  
  23. Like
    dprh got a reaction from Vort in What happened to Sam   
    2 Nephi 4:11 - I figure it is literal that Sam's seed will be numbered with Nephi's.  My guess is similar to @Vort, he only had daughters.
  24. Love
    dprh reacted to NeuroTypical in What happened to Sam   
    I figure he was one of the ninety and nine.  Walked righteously, did his part.  Back when people were choosing sides and there was drama, he was stalwart and true.  
    It is odd, that, well,

  25. Like
    dprh reacted to Vort in What happened to Sam   
    My speculation is that Sam had only daughters, no sons, so had no mortal patronymy.