LineUponLine

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About LineUponLine

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    The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

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  1. I remember hearing a general authority tell that he would meet with his bishop for tithing settlement at the end of each year, so I believe that while it may seem redundant coming from a general authority I would think they still follow the procedure to have a recommend interview with their Bishop and Stake President when needed. The simple act of declaring their worthiness is still an important rite of passage if you will. Even apostles can make errors and may need to repent of something from time to time.
  2. LineUponLine

    Looking beyond the Mark.

    I just like to think about our future potential to become as Heavenly Father. Can you imagine God being addicted to something that has a negative side effect? Obviously there are things that our body needs to be healthy. Red meat is to be eaten sparingly, therefore moderation is also needed (even water can kill you if you drink too much at one time). But I find it impossible to see God consuming something or participating in any activity that would impair his judgement or ability. God holds us accountable to the light and knowledge we have received. Do I think that we are forever condemned if we have unhealthy habits? Not necessarily, but God does want to see that we are ever improving ourselves and I believe that as we learn line upon line (including after our resurrection) we will further understand the best use for all substances and activities that will guide us to that perfect day. If we learn the most important commandment of obedience/humility, then: Ether 12:27 And if men come unto me I will show unto them their weakness. I give unto men weakness that they may be humble; and my grace is sufficient for all men that humble themselves before me; for if they humble themselves before me, and have faith in me, then will I make weak things become strong unto them. All weaknesses can be overcome and lead us to be like God who is perfect in every way.
  3. LineUponLine

    Is this paradoxical?

    One thing about faith is that it starts from someone who has full knowledge. Lectures on faith describe how that whole first millennium there was either Adam who had seen and interacted with God, or someone who knew Adam, thereby gaining faith from he who had true knowledge. Joseph Smith saw God the Father and Jesus Christ and therefore had true knowledge in them. So all who listened to his words were gaining faith through someone who had the truth. Now just because Joseph had this knowledge of the Father and the Son doesn't mean he didn't need faith to act according to their commands. (Polygamy for example was a difficult one for Joseph to follow, but he had the faith to follow it and now probably has a knowledge of it's eternal purpose). Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
  4. LineUponLine

    Living the Law of Consecration fully

    Yes, we will gain the knowledge of those things, but it won't be for any sort of personal income. We won't spend eternity as an accountant, a salesman, or a bus driver but we will use the knowledge to "bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man". God's glory is in having perfect knowledge and using it for creation and perfecting his creations.
  5. From Chapter 6 of "Saints": Sometimes Joseph translated by looking through the interpreters and reading in English the characters on the plates.Often he found a single seer stone to be more convenient. He would put the seer stone in his hat, place his face into the hat to block out the light, and peer at the stone. Light from the stone would shine in the darkness, revealing words that Joseph dictated as Oliver rapidly copied them down. Just a thought, but it seems to me that in developing technology, without realizing it, the world is trying to create a type of urim and thummim or seer stone in the form of a smartphone. Instruments prepared by God to assist man in obtaining revelation and in translating languages. In the Hebrew language the words mean “lights and perfections.” (guide to the scriptures) The purpose then is to provide knowledge and translations by looking through a stone of sorts. When I look at my smartphone it allows me to look through a screen created through lights and colors to obtain information that I may not currently have. And I can definitely use a translator for a variety of languages. I think a big difference is that the seer stone or urim and thummim is able to place that knowledge directly into the mind with clarity (if worthy of using them) whereas on a phone or computer screen it takes more time to process. However, research is in the works to have microchips implanted in the brain and be able to basically "download" information into our brains. (Neuralink). Still a long way off of ever being a realistic product.
  6. LineUponLine

    Living the Law of Consecration fully

    I understand your point now that you have clarified it. Earlier you were just telling me that my statement was inaccurate and so I was simply defending my statement.
  7. LineUponLine

    Living the Law of Consecration fully

    The development of faith in the Lord is an individual matter. Repentance is also an individual matter. Only as an individual can one be baptized and receive the Holy Ghost. Each of us is born individually; likewise, each of us is “born again”8individually. Salvation is an individual matter. -President Nelson, Conference Talk April 2008
  8. LineUponLine

    Living the Law of Consecration fully

    @The Folk Prophet I feel like your last post was purposefully antagonistic. I am simply trying to discuss thoughts and opinions, not force you or anyone else to do anything. This statement is just as inaccurate as... ...this one. I don't understand why you would say this is inaccurate. Agency is individual, 2Nephi 2:27 And they are free to choose liberty and eternal life, through the great Mediator of all men, or to choose captivity and death, according to the captivity and power of the devil. No one forces me to sin, no one forces me to choose the right. I choose. Salvation is individual. Zion is not a one man show. The City of Enoch was not just the prophet Enoch. The people in the Americas after Christ visited them was not one person. So how many people does it take to achieve to Zion? 2? 20? 200? 2 million? What's the magic ratio of righteous to wicked? Obviously there is no magic number... but it does take more than one. Again, this is obviously not a mortal means of communication, but with resurrected bodies and minds that can think a million times faster I don't think verbal communication will be the most efficient. Besides, I was referring to communication related jobs will be obsolete. Again, obviously here in mortality we need some rest, some recreation, and some way to provide a living for our families. This is just my point again to working towards a Zion-like society. Focusing on the most important things as opposed to worldly things. Priorities that lead us to living a celestial lifestyle.
  9. LineUponLine

    Living the Law of Consecration fully

    Yes, salvation is on an individual basis. Zion however is a society, a community, a team effort. If this is so obvious, and we have been flooded with the answers, then why does it seem that we are no closer to a present day Zion then we were 100 years ago. Yes the church has grown in population and there are many more temples... but inactivity rates are higher, the wealth gap between rich and poor is higher than ever... If all we have to do is follow the checklist then why does our end goal seem hardly closer than before. Would anyone say that the current active church population is more righteous than those of 100 years ago? I'm not disregarding the importance of those good habits and routines. When I try to imagine what living a celestial life will be like, I think we all would have incomprehensible culture shock due to our lack of preparation. The lifestyle that we are used to is filled with professions with the goal to make a living, make money. Those things will not exist in a celestial life and we are supposed to be preparing for it. Communication Telepathy? Revelation? Education and Training Learning will not cost Finance No need Government and Public Administration Christ is King Health Science No sickness/injury Hospitality and Tourism No need Human Services No need Information Technology No need Law, Public Safety, Corrections, and Security No war, crime, dishonesty, etc… Manufacturing No need Marketing, Sales, and Service No need Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics Learning will not cost Transportation, Distribution, and Logistics No need With all these becoming obsolete, what will we be spending our time doing for eternity? It will not be trying to make money. The closer we can move in the direction of a Zion-like society here, the closer we are to living a celestial life.
  10. LineUponLine

    Living the Law of Consecration fully

    This is true. I don't believe we are ready and I know there are a lot of obstacles (pride being among the top) before we are. I love hearing the examples that @Anddenex was giving and I wish those things could be more commonplace. When I define helping the poor it is based on need starting with food, clothing, and shelter and only expanding on that after those primary needs are met. When a debt is payed off through the assistance of someone who has the funds to do so it is expected that the one who was in debt is still working as a productive individual and isn't out looking for the next thing to get him back in debt. Someone who is living celestial law is self-reliant. I think a better question I need to ask is: What steps need to be taken presently in order for further progress to be in made in creating a zion today. If we are clearly not ready (and i'm talking about large scale because I'm sure there are some who are in fact ready) then what changes need to be made? What progress actually is being made that maybe i'm not seeing?
  11. LineUponLine

    Living the Law of Consecration fully

    All I am saying is what the Lord said D&C 49:20 But it is not given that one man should possess that which is above another, wherefore the world lieth in sin. A key part of the definition of Zion is that they are all equal and there is no poor among them. Can no one clarify this to me? I'm not saying hardwork is worthless and nothing is gained from it and I'm not saying the poor should be given boats and mansions. But imagine if the surplus wealth could pay off most if not all debt including mortgage debt. Imagine if the homeless never went hungry and were always clothed and were given the help they need to get on their feet to get a job and provide for themselves. Ever notice in the Book of Mormon that problems always started with riches? The wearing of costly apparel, class distinctions, etc. Has anyone read Hugh Nibley's book Approaching Zion?
  12. LineUponLine

    Living the Law of Consecration fully

    Average and median are different Mean household incomeEdit Another common measurement of personal income is the mean household income. Unlike the median household income, which divides all households in two halves, the mean income is the average income earned by American households. In the case of mean income, the income of all households is divided by the number of all households.[25] The mean income is usually more affected by the relatively unequal distribution of income which tilts towards the top.[26] As a result, the mean tends to be higher than the median income, with the top earning households boosting it. Overall, the mean household income in the United States, according to the US Census Bureau 2014 Annual Social and Economic Supplement, was $72,641.[27] The US Census Bureau also provides a breakdown by self-identified ethnic groups as follows (as of March 2018): Mean household income by ethnicity[27] Ethnic category Mean household income Asian alone $114,105 White alone $89,632 Hispanic or Latino $68,319 Black $58,985 Mean vs. median household incomeEdit
  13. LineUponLine

    Living the Law of Consecration fully

    @mikbone I'm not saying I can't or i'm not, but the need to meet temporal needs (and the anxiety it creates) takes up more time and energy that I would prefer to dedicate to spiritual/enlightening things.
  14. LineUponLine

    Living the Law of Consecration fully

    If Christ (or the Prophet) asked of us today the same as was asked of the young rich man, sell all that you have and give to the poor, how many would be able to do it with a willing heart.
  15. LineUponLine

    Living the Law of Consecration fully

    The Lord doesn't expect us to be living in caves or shacks. He does want us to enjoy life and be successful. Joseph Smith had a wonderful home in Nauvoo through his hard labor but it put him in a position to constantly be helping. Obviously fiscal surplus is on an individual basis, but if a family of say 6 can live on wages of say $50,000 per year and have all needs (and occasional wants met) then the family of 5, 4, 3, 2, and 1 who make $100,000+ definitely have a lot of surplus. They might say otherwise because they have become accustomed to a more expensive lifestyle. All I am saying is what the Lord said D&C 49:20 But it is not given that one man should possess that which is above another, wherefore the world lieth in sin. A key part of the definition of Zion is that they are all equal and there is no poor among them. I'm not saying wealthy individuals are "giving lots of free stuff" for others to go out and buy materialistic wants. The law of consecration collects the surplus so that those who are in need due to debt, unexpected circumstances, lack of resources, etc. can be assisted and it is given out proportionate to and individual family's need. Obviously a larger family will have a few more needs than a smaller one. Some families may deal with health issues that require more assistance. I'm just saying there is way more surplus available that could help close the gap between the rich and the poor.