Wilderland

Doctrine and Covenants 84:23-24
23 Now this Moses plainly taught to the children of Israel in the wilderness, and sought diligently to sanctify his people that they might behold the face of God;
24 But they hardened their hearts and could not endure his presence; therefore, the Lord in his wrath, for his anger was kindled against them, swore that they should not enter into his rest while in the wilderness, which rest is the fulness of his glory.
Here it is plainly laid out that entering into the rest of the Lord is gaining his presence in mortality, or receiving the Second Comforter.
Alan

Doctrine and Covenants 84:23-24
23 Now this Moses plainly taught to the children of Israel in the wilderness, and sought diligently to sanctify his people that they might behold the face of God;
24 But they hardened their hearts and could not endure his presence; therefore, the Lord in his wrath, for his anger was kindled against them, swore that they should not enter into his rest while in the wilderness, which rest is the fulness of his glory.
Here it is plainly laid out that entering into the rest of the Lord is gaining his presence in mortality, or receiving the Second Comforter.
Alan

The Aaronic priesthood won’t be taken from the earth until rightful heirs to this priesthood, meaning the sons of Levi, or rather his direct descendants, again offer sacrifice to the Lord. At that time this appendage of the Melchizedek priesthood will be absorbed back into its original source.

May I suggest that there is something else going on that seems to be missing from this thread.  I realize that many think President Nelson is coming up with a bunch of new things to change the image and branding of the Church.  I believe there are two things that have been missed.  The first - I believe was expressed in the theme  of this current world conference that just ended.  That theme, or so it seems to me, is that we are in a dispensation and era of restoration.  Some think it is just a restoration of the primitive Church established when Jesus called his Apostles.  But I think there is more than just that.  The Church of Jesus Christ is a restoration of all things and all dispensations.  Beyond the Church that Jesus established - Moses has restored the gathering or Israel - during the time of Jesus and his Apostles (70 AD) Israel (in particular the house of Judah) was still in the process of being scattered.  The time of restoration of Israel was for a different time and dispensation.
Elijah also restored the sealing of families and temple work.  This restoration is not of man or established through scholars but by G-d through the ignorant on the American frontier.   And now I am to the second point.  Nothing has changed concerning the name of the Church.  The name is the same today as the April 6th of 1830 when the Church was organized.  But the Church is growing and is filling the earth.  G-d continues to restore line upon line upon line and precept upon precept upon precept.  That the time has come that Zion should be adorned with the garments intended from the beginning should be a message to the Latter-day Saints.  This change is not about P.R. or re-branding.  I believe it ought to  be obvious that this commandment to the Saints is a preparation for the return of the Messiah.  I believe it is to prepare the Latter-day Saints (not so much the world) for Jesus to return.
 
The Traveler

I know we are in the midst of gathering scattered Israel, but I wonder, when I read changing daily news about missionaries being called home from foreign missions, if the time of the gentiles is not now very rapidly closing, our has shut.
It may not fit the template I imagined when thinking about the time of the gentiles coming to an end, but it is possible current world circumstances are a part of it. The gathering of scattered Israel may be more literal than we presume. Thoughts?

....... Audrey Hepburn will not be happy when she finds out what I've done.

What happens at church can be an adventure.  Perhaps the strangest adventure experience I have witnessed was in a Gospel Doctrine Class.  Strangely I do not even remember what the lesson was about but I remember well what happened.  I will try to explain.  There was a lady in our stake but not within our ward boundaries that was a member of our ward - she was divorced and I was the High Priest Group Leader so I was sort of aware of this once married but now single sister.  I do not know if this matters but she was what most men would classify as extremely good looking - she was somewhat of a stunner and dare I add somewhat flirty.  She was also mostly charming - note the adverb "mostly".   I cannot account for why but she was also very wealthy - not that any of this really matters.  Back to the Gospel Doctrine adventure.
This lady starts bearing her testimony of the Church in the Gospel Doctrine class - and in the beginning it was very touching and moving.  Then she begins to talk about her daughter.  I never met the daughter but I was aware of the daughter's circumstance.  She was excommunicated from the church and perhaps should have been in prison but was in a psychiatric hospital.  The daughter's main problem was drugs but there were also chastity, theft and violence problems (violence not just against others but herself as well).  The lady in the class said that she had visions of her daughter as one of the greatest and most noble spirits of the pre-existence and that the daughter was the angel that comforted Christ when he suffered in Gethsemane.  That because she was such a great spirit in the pre-existence that she would suffer such great trials while in mortality.   Perhaps it all would not have gone so badly had not the lady not so raised her voice and demanded that everybody repent and receive a witness of the daughter and spread the news of how wonderful she really is.  This was the last Sunday the lady attended our ward as her records were transferred to another ward. 
I have often pondered this adventure but not so that it occupied my spirituality.  But I have pondered what I ought to or ought not to do, say or think about such things and if there is anything for me to learn from such experience.  I might add that the lady called me out in class because I was the High Priest Group Leader - she also called out the bishopric and several others of the ward.  To this day - all I can say is - I do not understand - it makes no sense to me and I have decided I do not have enough information to respond or make any judgments - other than I think the lady was and is a mental case that may not be relieved from her condition in mortality.  But honestly I do not know - perhaps in our next life I will learn the answer. 
Sometimes I think there are some things for which there are no answers - and that we all need to realize that some answers really do not matter in our mortal lifetime anyway.
 
The Traveler
 
 

Until the resurrection we remain fallen - regardless of what blessings (with very rare and few exceptions) and regardless of what achievements we think we obtain - we will ultimately succumb to the effects of sin and suffer death.  Everyone struggles with some aspect of the the natural man or another.
A little story - I know a young man that served a mission, married in the temple, paid his tithing, read scriptures and attended the temple regularly, served in callings and prayed and said they had a testimony and felt the spirit.  His wife left him for another man and he was devastated.  He prayed a lot and went to the temple and believed that she would come back to him - but she did not.  Rather she filed for divorce.   He has now lost all faith and no longer attends church or keeps any of his covenants.
There are no blessings without obedience to principles of righteousness.  When I say righteousness it should be understood to be things that are TRUE.  The first principle of truth and righteousness is faith in the L-rd Jesus Christ - the second is repentance.  This is not a one and done or instant process but a lifetime pursuit.
It is my personal belief that we knew before we were born in the pre-existence and that through our agency we choose to come into this mortal existence and suffer with Christ to overcome all things.  I believe you do not suffer alone but the Christ suffers with you and as you struggle and suffer - so does the Messiah struggle and suffer with you.  Have faith and be believing and ALL things will turn out for your good.  What seems to be weakness will be made into strength - if not immediately it will be in the resurrection the same as with Job.
 
The Traveler

The woman that had an issue of blood for 12 years, the man blind from birth, the man crippled from birth, Zion taken up in process of time, Lehi's and Moses' sojourns in the wilderness, Paul's thorn in the flesh... there are many, many and these are just coming to mind in a matter of seconds. I'm sure I can find many others if I thought about and researched it. Hang in there!
The Nephites had to wait a year after the great destruction before the Lord visited them.

Respectfully, I stand unconvinced this has or ever will occur.  Whether Gileadi, Rowe, Snuffer, Spencer, a close friend, or relative believes so, my stance is firm.  The answers to the following are either "yes" or "no".
-Do you have a testimony of the Restoration of the gospel of Jesus Christ?

-Do you sustain the President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the prophet, seer, and revelator and as the only person on the earth authorized to exercise all priesthood keys?
-Do you sustain the members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators?


 

Now that sounds like a plausible scenario. I suspect that the amazing experience that is to be the next General Conference will have far more to do with how we prepare than what they actually do at conference. No different than before except we are being told in advance where to focus our preparation efforts. So in other words those with oil in their vessels will have an amazing experience and those without oil will see just another conference.

He certainly doubled down on President Nelson’s most recent BYU comments. He didn’t mince any words, and I love him the more for it.
I met him once at a Priesthood Leadership Conference. He had nothing of the stern Federal judge vibe one sees at General Conference. He was very personable, and gave me a hug.

Old first, new second.  My goodness!

Watching the Women's Session with my wife. After Elder Oaks had been speaking for a while, she said, "I'm going to miss him when he dies." May that not happen for many years. Thank God for President Oaks.

Just finished listening to it, his talk was incredible. Purely logical, full of love, and to the point. What a great man.

He certainly doubled down on President Nelson’s most recent BYU comments. He didn’t mince any words, and I love him the more for it.
I met him once at a Priesthood Leadership Conference. He had nothing of the stern Federal judge vibe one sees at General Conference. He was very personable, and gave me a hug.

A few things come to mind for me. First, I agree with some of what Anddenex and ScottyG said. This is absolutely a part of a sifting process, just like Come Follow Me. And those who follow counsel are indeed obvious. The children and youth program is simply the next step. Those who follow the prophet's counsel will experience blessings, and those who don't will, regrettably, be spiritually left behind. This is a part of adding oil to our lamps. I serve in a certain stake position, and I assure you Come Follow Me, and adherence to it, or not, is a common point of discussion and worry. The same for the new children and youth initiative.
Becoming more spiritually independent is a pattern that began at least as far back as when Preach My Gospel came out. Gone were the days of memorizing discussions word for word, and instruction was to be more spirit-led. Then similar changes came to youth Sunday School lessons, then Gospel Doctrine lessons, then of course Come Follow Me. We are being led line upon line to better, or more closely follow the spirit. I see it as similar to Moses raising the brazen serpent. "What do you mean, if I follow these silly instructions, I, or my family, will be healed/protected? Pffft!" In a sense we have a front row seat to the Law of Moses being superseded by something better. Quibble about policy vs. doctrine, but the changes we are seeing are not arbitrary, and are necessary.
The new children and youth initiative, as I said, is the next step in this progression. We are being prepared, both for obvious challenges such as the world growing more and more wicked, and our need to better qualify for the guiding influence of the spirit for yet unseen dangers and challenges. President Nelson said as much a year and a half ago. I also agree with Traveler that the day ‘may’ arrive where we will have to do it on our own, at least for a while. Think of the 10 virgins. Think of the warning to be spiritually prepared. "In the coming days we will not be able to survive spiritually ..." Imagine the necessity of qualifying for, recognizing, and following the spirit if it’s just up to us. That would not be the time to start figuring out how the spirit, or power in the Priesthood, operates.
Although parents have always had the responsibility to teach the gospel to their families, there is now more onus for us to insure it happens. Come Follow Me, and this new initiative bear this out. As an example, a close reading of what is and isn't in the new youth program may suggest mutual is going away:
Support for the youth in regard to gospel study-
Home-Centered: Prayer, Scripture study, Home evening, Sabbath Day, Family History. 
Church-Supported: Sabbath instruction, Seminary.
I can almost hear some members now (well, in January), "In MY day we had all these programs to help us. Road shows, Church softball and basketball, Duty to God, Faith in God, Young Woman's medallions, Scouting, and Mutual. How are we ever going to provide our youth the support they need to have a chance in this wicked world? What are our leaders thinking!?" In reality, what program or check-list can ever match the sacred right parents have to claim revelation for their children? In the end, we are either led by Christ through prophets, seers and revelators, or we are not. To whom much is given much is required, but don't forget to whom much is required, much is given!
As an addendum, don't be surprised if we hear something new about sisters this coming weekend. 😉

A few things come to mind for me. First, I agree with some of what Anddenex and ScottyG said. This is absolutely a part of a sifting process, just like Come Follow Me. And those who follow counsel are indeed obvious. The children and youth program is simply the next step. Those who follow the prophet's counsel will experience blessings, and those who don't will, regrettably, be spiritually left behind. This is a part of adding oil to our lamps. I serve in a certain stake position, and I assure you Come Follow Me, and adherence to it, or not, is a common point of discussion and worry. The same for the new children and youth initiative.
Becoming more spiritually independent is a pattern that began at least as far back as when Preach My Gospel came out. Gone were the days of memorizing discussions word for word, and instruction was to be more spirit-led. Then similar changes came to youth Sunday School lessons, then Gospel Doctrine lessons, then of course Come Follow Me. We are being led line upon line to better, or more closely follow the spirit. I see it as similar to Moses raising the brazen serpent. "What do you mean, if I follow these silly instructions, I, or my family, will be healed/protected? Pffft!" In a sense we have a front row seat to the Law of Moses being superseded by something better. Quibble about policy vs. doctrine, but the changes we are seeing are not arbitrary, and are necessary.
The new children and youth initiative, as I said, is the next step in this progression. We are being prepared, both for obvious challenges such as the world growing more and more wicked, and our need to better qualify for the guiding influence of the spirit for yet unseen dangers and challenges. President Nelson said as much a year and a half ago. I also agree with Traveler that the day ‘may’ arrive where we will have to do it on our own, at least for a while. Think of the 10 virgins. Think of the warning to be spiritually prepared. "In the coming days we will not be able to survive spiritually ..." Imagine the necessity of qualifying for, recognizing, and following the spirit if it’s just up to us. That would not be the time to start figuring out how the spirit, or power in the Priesthood, operates.
Although parents have always had the responsibility to teach the gospel to their families, there is now more onus for us to insure it happens. Come Follow Me, and this new initiative bear this out. As an example, a close reading of what is and isn't in the new youth program may suggest mutual is going away:
Support for the youth in regard to gospel study-
Home-Centered: Prayer, Scripture study, Home evening, Sabbath Day, Family History. 
Church-Supported: Sabbath instruction, Seminary.
I can almost hear some members now (well, in January), "In MY day we had all these programs to help us. Road shows, Church softball and basketball, Duty to God, Faith in God, Young Woman's medallions, Scouting, and Mutual. How are we ever going to provide our youth the support they need to have a chance in this wicked world? What are our leaders thinking!?" In reality, what program or check-list can ever match the sacred right parents have to claim revelation for their children? In the end, we are either led by Christ through prophets, seers and revelators, or we are not. To whom much is given much is required, but don't forget to whom much is required, much is given!
As an addendum, don't be surprised if we hear something new about sisters this coming weekend. 😉

I agree with part of what you are saying. Too many in the past have used the Church as their crutch to lean against without developing their own spiritual legs to stand upon. But true spiritual self-reliance is not about enabling us to step away from the Church but to move closer to it, to become a support instead of a burden. The ultimate end of self-reliance is the development of individual ability to be consecrated to the Church and its mission to build the kingdom of God. So the true irony of self-reliance is its goal of helping us become one rather than separate.

You are not alone in feeling that you have never done well "under these kinds of goal-setting programs." I am hoping I will become better, but more importantly to help my children to understand and follow through toward achieving a goal.
We went over last night with the kiddos their goals. We plan on having a personal one-on-one to define their goals in a measurable way, and then plan daily activities that will help them to achieve their goal. I really liked from the video how the family helped the one child in passing the reading test. Family members served their brother to help achieve a goal. Service is one of the ways to increase love also for family.
From what I can view from this program (the video and the pamphlet):
1) Home centered, it is the responsibility of the father and mother to make this happen, while the Church (wards) are their to support goal achievement. It has always been this way, but now it is much more addressed.
2) Parents who fault find with the program are going to be an impediment. There is no perfect program.
3) This may require more time on the young men and young women presidents with parents who are less-active, not active, but the program is even for them.
4) Children, as they properly apply, will come to know the Lord's voice and his love for them sooner. They will properly know come to know how to set and achieve a goal. They will also come to know how to deal with failure and how to keep moving when failure happens.

Launch day is the first Sunday in January - everything up until then is preparation.
One impression for me is that we are preparing for a time when most will not have the freedom to assemble outside of our homes for worship.
 
The Traveler

Exactly. I serve in the Bishopric in our ward, and with almost every family we can tell who is following the "Come, follow Me" program and who is not. Some of the youth I talk to have a different/new feeling about them as they are now in the scriptures more each week. Some homes and families, sadly, have not changed one bit, and are being left behind as others progress.

I am thoroughly looking forward to it and to hear more on November 17th.
A lot of the success of this program will be the focus on home centered and church supported. The church is there to support the individual and family goals that are established in the home.
Fathers and mothers (more so fathers) to be more involved in their sons and daughters lives and their goals if we are actively pursuing this.
As with the Come Follow Me in the home, you will begin to see another diverge between families who are applying this in their home, and families who are not.

I think we are all familiar with Pres Nelson's statement from his first GC as the prophet:
"In coming days, it will not be possible to survive spiritually without the guiding, directing, comforting, and constant influence of the Holy Ghost."
If we combine that with the whole idea of a home centered and church supported approach I think we are being told that gone are the days (if those days ever existed) where parents can delegate part of their responsibilities to the Church in raising their kids. The world is simply becoming too dark to expect a couple hours on Sunday and a couple more during the week to keep our youth safe. If parents and families don't raise the bar and start creating a Proclamation on the Family home their children will be in grave danger notwithstanding the Church's efforts. Remember, half the virgins were foolish and not ready for the Bridegroom's coming. Imagine how many youth will be raised in those homes. Its a sad thought but we live in a sad world. Of course we do what we can to save as many as possible but we fool ourselves if we believe this new youth program needs to be some all encompassing venture to be successful. The whole point of the program is to help youth and families learn to become more spiritually self-sufficient.

I figure he was one of the ninety and nine.  Walked righteously, did his part.  Back when people were choosing sides and there was drama, he was stalwart and true.  
It is odd, that, well,