mrmarket

Anything by Gordon Lightfoot

I can understand where @mrmarket is coming from. While the church leaders are on pretty solid ground in this case (because of clergy-penitent privilege), there's a larger question about whether legal is strictly equivalent to ethical. 
Unfortunately, in this case, the ethics are murky.  There's a strong ethical case to be made for protecting victims and making the report.  There's also a strong ethical case in the religious community (not just in LDS, and not even just in Christianity) for not breaching the clergy-penitent privilege. I suspect even ethicists in the religious community would be divided on this one.
I can't say one way or another whether this decision not to report was The Right Decision (TM) or not.  And I could make arguments either way. I'll just have to trust the guys in the room.
These are agonizing decisions for church leaders. Those who claim these decisions are simple and clean cut do not have a full appreciation for the complexity of being responsible for the spiritual and temporal welfare of a ward.

Update from the church news on the subject

https://www.thechurchnews.com/global/2020-03-26/coronavirus-covid-19-impact-missionary-work-global-178402
 

My son did not come home.  But the missionaries that came home from the Philippines did not get tested.  They were simply sent straight home for 14-day quarantine.  They only get tested if they show covid symptoms. 

The past few weeks we had lots of transactions of SELLS from clients we couldn't talk into hanging on and riding it out. Now all kinds of new money is flowing in so we are doing lots of buys right now. Also the 2019 IRA contribution deadline was pushed to the right on the calendar. Lots of people maxing out their 2019 contributions to take advantage of the fire sale going on right now.

And for those of you picking up your missionary who is inbound early don’t be like these folks. Too bad we get persecuted enough and now we hand them ammo to do it with
https://www.deseret.com/faith/2020/3/23/21191288/missionaries-airport-mormon-lds-latter-day-saint-leaders-coronavirus-covid19

I dont know if the $25Bn figure is accurate. Seems as if the only place I have seen/head that is antaness' post. I would be surprised if the church had to pay that much in bribes or even flight charters to get people back. It sounds more in-line with the figure the church lost in the stock market in the last few weeks with what we know about the $100Bn + portfolio. 

Chartering a jet costs tons of money, but I did it a few times for work (737) which was one way from east coast to west and that was $185K. Overseas??? Im sure it would be a lot more.   $25Bn? Doubt it.

I dont know if the $25Bn figure is accurate. Seems as if the only place I have seen/head that is antaness' post. I would be surprised if the church had to pay that much in bribes or even flight charters to get people back. It sounds more in-line with the figure the church lost in the stock market in the last few weeks with what we know about the $100Bn + portfolio. 

Chartering a jet costs tons of money, but I did it a few times for work (737) which was one way from east coast to west and that was $185K. Overseas??? Im sure it would be a lot more.   $25Bn? Doubt it.

Where in my post did I criticize the church? Discussion was ongoing about what constituted a rainy day. I merely provided empirical evidence from the mouth of the fund manager himself as to what it had been used for in the past. I think you are assuming way too much. 
 
if hoping they use it to help someone is being critical then so be it. As the church does not provide transparency as to exactly what the fund is for I dont see how we are not allowed to speculate.

I need it spelled out. Mind helping out here or just going to be your usual abrasive self?

Where in my post did I criticize the church? Discussion was ongoing about what constituted a rainy day. I merely provided empirical evidence from the mouth of the fund manager himself as to what it had been used for in the past. I think you are assuming way too much. 
 
if hoping they use it to help someone is being critical then so be it. As the church does not provide transparency as to exactly what the fund is for I dont see how we are not allowed to speculate.

I need it spelled out. Mind helping out here or just going to be your usual abrasive self?

This guy hit the nail on the head with this quote from a 1973 lecture that Nibley gave at BYU, later reprinted in the collection, What is Zion? Joseph Smith Lecture Series 1972-73.
…the worst sinners, according to Jesus, are not the harlots and publicans, but the religious leaders with their insistence on proper dress and grooming, their careful observance of all the rules, their precious concern for status-symbols, their strict legality, their pious patriotism. Longhairs, beards, and necklaces, LSD and rock, Big Sur and Woodstock, come and go, but Babylon is always there: rich, respectable, immovable… We want to be vindicated in our position and to know that the world is on our side as we all join in a chorus of righteous denunciation; the haircut becomes the test of virtue in a world where Satan deceives and rules by appearances.
 
 

Im not concerned about it, just positing a theory. Thanks for the video though.

Working till  you die? Most get sick, disabled etc and don't work for 10-20 yrs before they die. That is the problem. At that point someone else (usually relatives) has to pay the difference until you die. A family member of ours never saved any money and now in their golden years we have to help pay for medical stuff because they have no savings to live off of. 

I agree with the cost of living. I rarely have a retiree living off much less than they previously earned unless their home is payed off. Generally they have Soc Sec between $1800-$2200 per month and then they subsidize with their savings. 

I would have to agree with that.

What is even more alarming is this:
As a Financial Advisor who regularly sees LDS clients (I don't market to them - high LDS population here) I often find they save significantly less than their non-member neighbors. This according to those I meet with is because of a lot less disposable income. 

A faithful member has many more expenses than most other people - Tithing, Fast Offerings, a mission or two or three etc. These expenses consume a huge amount of money which if invested instead of spending it on these categories can/would have compounded to very larger sums. I am not advocating people avoid these expenses, but rather we need to live significantly below our means and save even more money if we want to enjoy retirement (be able to afford it- you define enjoy) because our expenses are permanently higher than the non-members around us. The concept of living below our means has been taught for a long time, but from my perspective it is rarely followed. 

Some may think the non-members just spend all their money at Vegas, drinking or on their boat. Truth is for the average person, Mormons spend more than the non-member does on tithing alone if one is actually paying 10%. I Obviously this is purely anecdotal, but from the people I am visiting with and judging by the numbers they are giving me I am confident I am not too far off the mark. Those who save for the future (Mormon or not) will not be out blowing their money. When you take two people who have different permanent built-in expenses then the result down the road will be significantly different. I witness this all the time.
I pay enough in tithing to max out a 401K, yet my savings rate is very low relative to my peers. I even live in a neighborhood where the median income is probably about 70K because after all my expenses, savings, church obligations, kids on missions, I frankly don't have much left. I know for a fact I will not have enough saved to go abroad on a senior mission with my wife and I am a very aggressive saver. 
When trying to determine what you will need to save for retirement here is a tip: Figure out approximately how much Social Security you will get, factor in any pensions if applicable and finally Subtract that from what you feel is a decent annual income. Whatever that figure is, multiply by 25 and you have your minimum savings goal.
Example: after expenses I need $25K in annual income. $25,000 x 25 = $625,000

$625K to produce about $25K per year in income. That is considering you only will need income for 25 years. If your death is not already planned one would be wise to be invested in the stock market so your nest egg can grow and keep your source of income producing a stream of money indefinitely which can be increased or indexed for inflation as well.

Save lots, live way below your means and stay in the market. Play the long game.

Working till  you die? Most get sick, disabled etc and don't work for 10-20 yrs before they die. That is the problem. At that point someone else (usually relatives) has to pay the difference until you die. A family member of ours never saved any money and now in their golden years we have to help pay for medical stuff because they have no savings to live off of. 

I agree with the cost of living. I rarely have a retiree living off much less than they previously earned unless their home is payed off. Generally they have Soc Sec between $1800-$2200 per month and then they subsidize with their savings. 

I would have to agree with that.

What is even more alarming is this:
As a Financial Advisor who regularly sees LDS clients (I don't market to them - high LDS population here) I often find they save significantly less than their non-member neighbors. This according to those I meet with is because of a lot less disposable income. 

A faithful member has many more expenses than most other people - Tithing, Fast Offerings, a mission or two or three etc. These expenses consume a huge amount of money which if invested instead of spending it on these categories can/would have compounded to very larger sums. I am not advocating people avoid these expenses, but rather we need to live significantly below our means and save even more money if we want to enjoy retirement (be able to afford it- you define enjoy) because our expenses are permanently higher than the non-members around us. The concept of living below our means has been taught for a long time, but from my perspective it is rarely followed. 

Some may think the non-members just spend all their money at Vegas, drinking or on their boat. Truth is for the average person, Mormons spend more than the non-member does on tithing alone if one is actually paying 10%. I Obviously this is purely anecdotal, but from the people I am visiting with and judging by the numbers they are giving me I am confident I am not too far off the mark. Those who save for the future (Mormon or not) will not be out blowing their money. When you take two people who have different permanent built-in expenses then the result down the road will be significantly different. I witness this all the time.
I pay enough in tithing to max out a 401K, yet my savings rate is very low relative to my peers. I even live in a neighborhood where the median income is probably about 70K because after all my expenses, savings, church obligations, kids on missions, I frankly don't have much left. I know for a fact I will not have enough saved to go abroad on a senior mission with my wife and I am a very aggressive saver. 
When trying to determine what you will need to save for retirement here is a tip: Figure out approximately how much Social Security you will get, factor in any pensions if applicable and finally Subtract that from what you feel is a decent annual income. Whatever that figure is, multiply by 25 and you have your minimum savings goal.
Example: after expenses I need $25K in annual income. $25,000 x 25 = $625,000

$625K to produce about $25K per year in income. That is considering you only will need income for 25 years. If your death is not already planned one would be wise to be invested in the stock market so your nest egg can grow and keep your source of income producing a stream of money indefinitely which can be increased or indexed for inflation as well.

Save lots, live way below your means and stay in the market. Play the long game.

I would have to agree with that.

What is even more alarming is this:
As a Financial Advisor who regularly sees LDS clients (I don't market to them - high LDS population here) I often find they save significantly less than their non-member neighbors. This according to those I meet with is because of a lot less disposable income. 

A faithful member has many more expenses than most other people - Tithing, Fast Offerings, a mission or two or three etc. These expenses consume a huge amount of money which if invested instead of spending it on these categories can/would have compounded to very larger sums. I am not advocating people avoid these expenses, but rather we need to live significantly below our means and save even more money if we want to enjoy retirement (be able to afford it- you define enjoy) because our expenses are permanently higher than the non-members around us. The concept of living below our means has been taught for a long time, but from my perspective it is rarely followed. 

Some may think the non-members just spend all their money at Vegas, drinking or on their boat. Truth is for the average person, Mormons spend more than the non-member does on tithing alone if one is actually paying 10%. I Obviously this is purely anecdotal, but from the people I am visiting with and judging by the numbers they are giving me I am confident I am not too far off the mark. Those who save for the future (Mormon or not) will not be out blowing their money. When you take two people who have different permanent built-in expenses then the result down the road will be significantly different. I witness this all the time.
I pay enough in tithing to max out a 401K, yet my savings rate is very low relative to my peers. I even live in a neighborhood where the median income is probably about 70K because after all my expenses, savings, church obligations, kids on missions, I frankly don't have much left. I know for a fact I will not have enough saved to go abroad on a senior mission with my wife and I am a very aggressive saver. 
When trying to determine what you will need to save for retirement here is a tip: Figure out approximately how much Social Security you will get, factor in any pensions if applicable and finally Subtract that from what you feel is a decent annual income. Whatever that figure is, multiply by 25 and you have your minimum savings goal.
Example: after expenses I need $25K in annual income. $25,000 x 25 = $625,000

$625K to produce about $25K per year in income. That is considering you only will need income for 25 years. If your death is not already planned one would be wise to be invested in the stock market so your nest egg can grow and keep your source of income producing a stream of money indefinitely which can be increased or indexed for inflation as well.

Save lots, live way below your means and stay in the market. Play the long game.

Hi! Glad to be here. 
I am looking forward to participating in discussions 🙂