romans8

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  1. Can someone clarify a few passags in this chapter. 1 Nephi 5:6 says they went to Jerusalem to obtain the record of the Jews. Verse 11 says the record of the Jews contained the five book of Moses. Verse 12 says the plates also contained a "record of the Jews from the beginning, even down to the commencement of the reign of Zedekiah, king of Judah". Do the peoples who make up the "Jews" and their record exclude all the other tribes outside of Benjamin and Judah? What is considered the "beginning of the record" of the Jews? Matteo
  2. I do not think it will be a PR disaster. Even a church video shows Heavenly Father having children of different nationalities (like Africans and Hispanics in the pre-mortal life). https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/media/video/2010-11-01-introduction-our-heavenly-fathers-plan?lang=eng The Folk Prophet referred to D&C 132:63 in one of his replies. But when I look earlier, it mentions Heavenly Father glorified himself in the same way; with plural marriage (verse 31). Matteo
  3. The church needs to omit those Introductory notes and change this teaching that I found online in one of its manuals. Lehi is clearly talking about why the lineage of his youngest son would not perish (verses 23-24).
  4. romans8

    Tried even as Abraham?

    I have a different interpretation so we can agree to disagree. Isaac was the child of promise and born the way God had planned. Ishmael was a child produced through Abraham's and Sarah's own attempt to enable God to do what he had said. That is what I mean by after the spirit vs after the flesh (which is not of God's design; even though he allowed it). I found a few links to explain the exegesis further. https://www.gotquestions.org/the-flesh.html https://www.emeryhorvath.com/are-you-after-the-flesh-or-following-the-spirit/ https://www.bibleref.com/Romans/8/Romans-8-5.html
  5. romans8

    Tried even as Abraham?

    I found this good article that has more explanation about it. https://enduringword.com/bible-commentary/genesis-20/
  6. romans8

    Organization of other Churches

    I would agree. That is why I do not accept the claim by the Roman Catholic Church that it is the only true church of Christ. These keys were given to all the disciples (see Matthew 18:1-2; 18). The apostle Paul and others would add "true doctrine" to sign of genuine Christianity. Matteo
  7. romans8

    Organization of other Churches

    I am not invalidating anything you say but I will add some comments. Jesus commissioned and gave authority to his church to preach the gospel and to make disciples. I do not rely on nor need the permission of any church leader to go to any country of my choosing to preach the gospel and baptize people. If it does not interfere with another biblically sound church in that area, I can even establish a home church (with or without the permission of the communist regime if I were to to go there). In my present circumstances, I am allowed to attend any church, even if it not in my geographical area. But some churches have registered members or elders and you must be approved for this. They do this to further protect the doctrinal integrity should apostasy try to drive the church in the wrong direction. But elders are allowed to be elders at other churches of their choosing too (if they are qualified). As for what @Traveler said. I do support formal theological seminary, but it may only be required if some institutions require some form of proven education. For example, a school in my country would not hire a teacher without the proper accreditation and/or experience. As for a church environment, you can easily tell the spiritual maturity of a person when they get up to the podium and begin to speak.
  8. romans8

    Tried even as Abraham?

    There are several instances with Abraham and his wife that come to mind. The first was when they went down to Egypt. A famine arose. Instead of staying in Canaan and relying on God to provide, Abraham and Sarah leave to go down to Egypt. Then Abraham, not trusting in God to protect his life, told Sarah to lie and say that she was his sister (Genesis 12:10-20). He was "tried" in his faith and he had failed. He was "chastened" in the act when he was told to leave their area (v.20). Abraham was chastised and tried when he attempted to hasten God's promises to him by listening to his wife Sarah to obtain a son through human effort. Family complications arose as a consequence (ex. hostility between Abraham/Sarah/Hagar and subsequently between Ishmael and Isaac). That is why scripture refers to Ishmael as being born of the flesh whereas Isaac was born after the spirit (Galatians 4:22-23,29).
  9. According to what I have read so far, Lehi is of the tribe of Manasseh. 2 Nephi 3:12-15 (with the introduction notes) is used to claim Joseph Smith would come in the same lineage (loins) of Lehi's youngest son (also of Manasseh). Unless Smith's lineage is claimed from his mother if she was of Ephraim?
  10. In reference to #1, what privilege of Ephraim as the new birthright holder had he over Manasseh? In reference to #2, what did the lineage of Ephraim contribute, as writings, to the Book of Mormon?
  11. That makes sense. I also found this article on desiringgod 1. The sins of the fathers are punished in the children through becoming the sins of the children. I the Lord...visit the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.” (Exodus 20:5; cf. Numbers 14:18) The generations to come who experience the penalty of the fathers’ sins are those who hate God. We are not told how the fathers’ sins become the children’s sins. But what we are told is that when the father’s sins are visited on the children it is because the children are really sinful. That is the form in which the fathers’ sins are visited. Therefore, all judgment is really deserved by the person who is punished.
  12. romans8

    Praying to Jesus

    What do you mean by the Holy Ghost came after the Son?
  13. I read those verses in Genesis 48 but it seems Manasseh kept the right of the firstborn (of Joseph) even though Ephraim was said to become greater than Manasseh. Regarding Jacob's other children, another son held the right of firstborn in that instance. As Israel subsequently multiplied into the hundreds of thousands, there were many sons with this right of firstborn. From what I gather from 2 Nephi 3, Lehi (of Manasseh) is speaking to his youngest son Joseph and he tells him that his seed would not be destroyed and from it would spring another Joseph (also from the seed of Manasseh) who would bring about the restoration (verses 3,23-24). The Introductory notes mention this as Joseph Smith.
  14. romans8

    The Purpose of Life: To Learn to Love

    How is a person obtaining a physical body better able to show or experience love than another person who only has a spiritual body? Or let me rephrase - did you love God more or less in your pre-mortal life than you do now in your physical body?
  15. I am familiar with that part but not totally clear on it. What specific blessing (s) did Ephraim receive that Manasseh did not?