romans8

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  1. I do not believe I was stretching. I believe it is reasonable to assume they were enjoying their fellowship with God and each other in the marriage relationship. As for narrative, what are your thoughts on these LDS teachings on the Garden of Eden. https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/old-testament-student-manual-genesis-2-samuel/genesis-3-the-fall?lang=eng The accounts in both Moses and Genesis state only that Satan approached Eve, but latter-day revelation records that he first approached Adam and was refused. Eve, however, was deceived by Satan and partook. Knowing that she would be driven out and separated from him, Adam then partook. Paul the Apostle wrote of the Fall, "And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression" (1 Timothy 2:14). I could not find LDS revelations which record: - Satan first approached Adam and was refused. - Adam knew Eve would be driven out from the Garden of Eden. https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/old-testament-stories-2022/adam-and-eve?lang=eng God our Heavenly Father and the Lord Jesus Christ visited them and talked to them. God let them eat the fruit of every tree but one. If they ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, they would have to leave the garden and would eventually die. God and the Lord visited them, but Adam and Eve were afraid and hid. God asked if they had eaten the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Adam and Eve promised to obey all of God’s commandments. I am not aware of a scripture which says: - Heavenly Father and Jesus visited them in the Garden before the Fall. - They were pre-warned about having to leave the Garden if they ate from the forbidden tree. - Heavenly Father and Jesus visited them in the Garden after they realized they were naked. - Adam and Eve made such a promise.
  2. I believe the command was sufficient enough and he had already warned them about the punishment of death. From my reading of Moses 3:17, God forbade Adam from eating and he reinforced it with a reminder. "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it, nevertheless, thou mayest choose for thyself, for it is given unto thee; but, remember that I forbid it, for in the day thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die". Like Adam and Eve, we are free to choose for ourselves to obey or disobey the commandments.
  3. Do you believe Adam and Eve had meaning and joy in their fellowship with each other and God (through worship) in the Garden before the Fall and with what God had initially tasked them with? For the later, I refer to Genesis 1:26,28 and 2:15,18
  4. What are the attempts by Adam and Eve to cover their nakedness with the fig leaves representative of? Are the aspects of nakedness and fig leaves literal or figurative?
  5. Part of it, I believe, involves his deception to her that she would not die. Another involves the temptation for her to become like God. Maybe another could be that he tricked her into believing God was withholding something from her that she believed she truly deserved. I found a rather lengthy exposition written by S.K. here. There is a connection to something Paul wrote in 2 Corinthians 11:3.
  6. I am reading the first part of this chapter and have some difficulty understanding its meaning. Rather than break it up into separate threads, it might be easier to group the questions into the same thread. #1 - Opposition. "For it must needs be, that there is an opposition in all things. If not so, my first-born in the wilderness, righteousness could not be brought to pass, neither wickedness, neither holiness nor misery, neither good nor bad. Wherefore, all things must needs be a compound in one; wherefore, if it should be one body it must needs remain as dead, having no life neither death, nor corruption nor incorruption, happiness nor misery, neither sense nor insensibility". Were Adam and Eve considered dead because they had neither happiness/joy nor misery before the Fall? #2 - The timing of their ability to act for themselves. "Wherefore, the Lord God gave unto man that he should act for himself. Wherefore, man could not act for himself save it should be that he was enticed by the one or the other". Were Adam and Eve able to act for themselves and perform anything God had tasked them with and to eat from any of the permitted trees *before* Satan enticed Eve to eat from the forbidden tree? Or could they only act for themselves after being enticed by Satan? #3 - The timing of their ability to act for themselves is again mentioned in Alma 12:31. "Wherefore, he gave commandments unto men, they having first transgressed the first commandments as to things which were temporal, and becoming as gods, knowing good from evil, placing themselves in a state to act, or being placed in a state to act according to their wills and pleasures, whether to do evil or to do good" Did they place themselves in a state to act after they ate from the forbidden fruit or were they already in a God-given state to act to obey or disobey before the Fall? What commandments (plural) did they transgress to become as gods? #4 - Becoming as gods. Is there a difference in doctrine by translating it "as Gods" in Alma 12:31 (1981 Book of Mormon which I have) versus the current "as gods" (in the online version)?
  7. What parts of the Garden of Eden narrative do you believe are literal and not figurative?
  8. Did the two cherubims on the mercy seat each have 4 faces, 4 wings, and hands under their wings as Ezekiel 10:21 describes? If yes, what do these represent?
  9. How do you understand Alma 42:3 and Moses 4:31? "Now, we see that the man had become as God, knowing good and evil; and lest he should put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat and live forever, the Lord God placed cherubim and the flaming sword, that he should not partake of the fruit". "So I drove out the man, and I placed at the east of the Garden of Eden, cherubim and a flaming sword, which turned every way to keep the way of the tree of life". Do you believe Jesus is the one and only literal angel placed there to prevent Adam and Eve to eat from the tree of life or were there other literal angels there with him? Or is this an unknown angel?
  10. I was referring to all the trees mentioned in Genesis 2:16-17 and 3:2.
  11. In your analogy, is the Cherubim and flaming sword literal representations of a person or object or are they symbolic representation of a non-person or non-object? What do all the other trees God created for Adam and Eve represent?
  12. What about all the other trees?
  13. If it was good to them, why did they feel fear and shame?
  14. All the dispersed Ukrainians we met had a profound sadness in their eyes. They left homeland and husbands/fathers. While we provide food, shelter, and comfort to them, they still yearn to return to the only home they ever had and to hopefully be reunited with their loved ones. As Ukraine survived and recovered after the second World War, let's hope the recovery happens again. It will take time, prayer, and God's provision. I especially note the strength and resiliency of their children with all they have gone through. It is almost like they are battle hardened with everything that has happened throughout their history.
  15. I was away for a while dealing with family matters in lieu of what is going on in Ukraine. Things have settled down a bit but we are still doing hospitality work with the hurting.