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Recent research has shown that enzymatic catalysis is affected by magnetice fields. If I remember correctly the work was done at the Univ 0f Utah and the effect occurred at relatively low levels. There is also a report that shows cattle lined up with the earth;s magnetic field. Amazing pictures from satelite maps. Larry P

Unfortunatly rulers in precolumbian cultures often either took upon themselves the same name as one of their gods or the people imposed that name on the ruler as a result of their actions. We do the same as in the latter possibility, for example "honest Abe" for Abraham Lincoln. It is therefore difficult to seperate legends that speak about the god and those about a real ruler named after the god. The Popol Vuh clearly designates Kulcucan as one of the creater gods. Kulcucan is a Mayan word that translates to Quetalcoatl in Nahuatl and both mean feathered serpent in English. Brant, however, is probably right in his conclusion that the white bearded god is the result of Spanish influence on the actual indian legends. I personaly think that the connection goes back to the Jaredites and the creation story and that little or no evidence remains of Christ's visit to the Nephites. Larry P

It certainly is not. Otherwise it would not be so difficult to put together a reasonable picture of the geography. Even with over 500 verses that imply geographical relationships, most of the details are still obscure and subject to debate. Larry P

Based on what little geography is described in the book of Ether, the Jaredites were located somewhat farther to the north than were the main body of the Olmec. The geography suggests that they were north of the narrow neck to the west of the Gulf of Mexico. Ether 9: 3 And the Lord awarned Omer in a dream that he should depart out of the land; wherefore Omer bdeparted out of the land with his family, and traveled many days, and came over and passed by the hill of cShim, and came over by the place dwhere the Nephites were destroyed, and from thence eastward, and came to a place which was called Ablom, by the seashore, and there he pitched his tent, and also his sons and his daughters, and all his household, save it were Jared and his family. Although the 24 gold plates containing the book of Ether were found among the people of Zarahemla who came up into the Land of Zarahemla from an area to the north, there is no compelling reason to indicate that they were the Jaredites described in the plates. This is not to say that they may not have been decendants of some of the others who accompanied Jared and his brother to the new world. A careful reading of the fate of Coriantumr tells us that he would be cared for and buried by the people who would inherit his land of promise. This could not be the people of Zarahemla for the simple reason that the Land of Zarahemla was not in the same place as the land of the Jaredites, his land of inheritence. Cumorah was north of the narrow neck and Zarahemla was southward from the narrow neck. As for the negroid features of the collosal heads, they do not represent the actual features and physionomy of the Olmecs. We have other carvings . The flat features resulted from the source of the stone used to create the heads. The heads were carved from rectangular blocks of stone used as thrones belonging to the ruler whose head was carved from the stone after death. The amount of stone and more likely the desire to retain as much of the throne like nature of the block resulted in a seriously flattened image and the appearance of negroid like features. Larry P

I am not familiar with that process but if it is similar to the methods for delivering insulin, it should be a boon to those who need a controled biofeedback method for medication. Larry P

As a biochemist who spent over 30 years studying human metabolism, I concur with many of the previously published thoughts. However, if you dont want to eat some meat, you with suffer dietary deficientcies in the long run. Your body stores a number of essential fatty acids in the fat tissue. These are gradually depleted over time if they are not replaced by eating animal fat. The human body can not make them from vegetable fat. When you run out your body will not be able to make some of the essential membranes and you will suffer bad health as a result. Some of the meat substutes add these fats back in as flavorings. The more strict providers use essential fats synthesized chemically. You can either get them from meat or from chemical sythesis but you must get them. Just a note on cholesterol uptake. Absolutely none of the cholesterol ingested in food is incorporated into body cholesterol. All of the body cholesterol is synthesized de novo from simple fats found in all meats. Because these fats are almost always associated with cholesterol, doctors are prone to use cholesterol levels as an indicater of the foods to be avoided. The main reason is that cholesterol levels are easy to determine and because of the number of different fats that can lead to cholesterol, determining their levels is much more difficult. In addition it is more difficult to get people to eat low fat meat because it is tasteless due to the absence of fats including the essential ones. Human taste acts to entice us to eat foods than are essential and to avoid foods that are harmful. for example we like sweets because sugar is the most essential food for energy production and to avoid green apples because they contain toxins that make us sick. Larry P

My favored Cumorah is the mountain range north of the town of Tepetzintla. I think that Shim is in the same area , possibly just south of Tepetzintla. The BofM does not give us any idea of the size of Shim. It could be any of the hills around the town. I think the town may have been named after the Hill but after the records were moved its significance dissappeared with time. Larry P

Justamere I dont entirely discount Jerry's choice but based on the text, the BoM Cumorah has to be some place near the west coast of the gulf. I favor any small isolated mountain or mountain range. Jerry's choice is a single mountain and therefore does not provide much diversity in hiding locations. The range just north of Tepetzintla (south of Bernal) is larger, has a central valley that opens to the south (remember some of the Nephites escaped to the south) and provides several lookout peaks along the ridge surrounding the central valley. There are a number of smaller peaks in the area, one near the town and incidentally Tepetzintla translates to corn hill in English. A suggested translation for the Hill Shim is also corn hill. The Book of Mormon does not indicate how close these two hills were and they might have been part of the same isolated group of mountains. I dont think Mormon would have liked to transport all those records for too great a distance. I think he was more interested in changing their location, possibly because the Hill Shim was well known as the record storage location. Just changing them to a nearby unknown location would have kept them hidden from the Lamanites. So I prefer Tepetzintla but dont rule out Bernal. They both meet the scanty criteria found in the Book of Mormon text. Larry P

Although I do not agree with everything Jerry says, I do agree with what he says about the Yucatan. One of the problems with many speculations about BofM geography is the lack of considering all elements of their choice for a location and concentrating on a few verses that fit their desired location. Many of the arguments listed by Jerry also apply to the New York Hill Cumorah. The major one is the size of hill required to give visibility for long distances and the need to be capable of Hiding the survivors from the large numbers of surviving Lamanites. Larry P

For those who don't think you can be a famous scientist and still be a faithful Latter Day Saint, I would recommend you get and read this book. It is a biography of Henry Eyring, President Eyring's father, written by his grandson Henry J Eyring. Larry P

Mudcat Nice to see you on this board. It is of course less hectic than MADB and although we dont all have the same opinions on contraversial issues, we do try to respect other opinions. One of the problems with interpreting the prophecies in first Nephi, is our tendency to see evertything as related to ourselves. Of course we believe that the US is a land of Liberty and without ever having a king. What we forget is that the land occupied by the US was ruled over by kings from 1620 to 1776. This is almost as long as it has been without kings. Mexico has the same history with respect to kings with the small difference that they did not gain independence until 1820. This same prophecy seems to speak of Columbus. Columbus never reached US territory, the closest he came was the West Indies and Central America. The treatment of the Indians by the Spanish was far more damaging than anything done in the US. Ninety percent of the indian population was destroyed due to slavery, indian wars and deseases brought by the Spaniards. At least in the US we did not make slaves out of the indians and force them to mine gold and silver for us. As others have already pointed out the word "land" in ancient writings almost always referred to a limited area. It is only today that due to such statements as "this land is our land" that we apply the term to the whole nation. The idea that the US is the promised land comes not fro the Book of Mormon but from a political philosopy than began with the pilgrims and reched its peak about the time of the restoration of the Gospel. This phiosophy is called "Manifest Destiny" and is a strictly political philosophy which in the beginning maintained that the US was destined by God to expand into all the area of the New World. It was later modified to limit this expansion to strech from the Atlantic Ocean to the Pacific Ocean. However in political doctrines such as the Monroe Doctrine the earlier concept is still maintained. Joseph Smith and his contemoraries were highly influenced by this Doctrine. Most of them were converts from other churches that had used the Bible for years to dupport this concept. Joseph Smith even wrote a letter to the US government suggesting that the Saints should go to California and form a settlement there to hold the land for the eventual arrival of the rest of the country. This of course influeneced them to see the Book of Mormon as supporting this concept along with the Bible. With these facts in mind, I find it far easier to interpret these passages as referring to Mesoamerica rather than the United States. Larry P

When and where. There was a letter written by the secretary to the First Presidency. The following is the exact text. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints Office of the First Presidency Salt Lake City, Utah 84150 October 16, 1990 Bishop Darrel L. Brooks Moore Ward Oklahoma City Oklahoma South Stake 1000 Windemere Moore, OK 73160 Dear Bishop Brooks: I have been asked to forward to you for acknowledgment and handling the enclosed copy of a letter to President Gordon B. Hinckley from Ronnie Sparks of your ward. Brother Sparks inquired about the location of the Hill Cumorah mentioned in the Book of Mormon, where the last battle between the Nephites and Lamanites took place. The Church has long maintained, as attested to by references in the writings of General Authorities, that the Hill Cumorah in western New York state is the same as referenced in the Book of Mormon. The Brethren appreciate your assistance in responding to this inquiry, and asked that you convey to Brother Sparks their commendation for his gospel study. Sincerely yours, (signed) F. Michael Watson Secretary to the First Presidency Nothing in this letter says that the First Presidency stated that the hill in New York was the same as the one in the book of Mormon. The statement is that the church has long maintained this concept. This is a generalized statement and does not specify the First Presidency. Church includes all the membership and it is true that most members even today maintain this concept. That does not make it true and above all does not make it revelatory. This letter was later clarified by the same secretary. Bro. Watson seems to have been speaking on his own understanding of the matter, and not as an official declaration of Church policy. In 1993, he sent a clarification letter: The Church emphasizes the doctrinal and historical value of the Book of Mormon, not its geography. While some Latter-day Saints have looked for possible locations and explanations [for Book of Mormon geography] because the New York Hill Cumorah does not readily fit the Book of Mormon description of Cumorah, there are no conclusive connections between the Book of Mormon text and any specific site.For more info and discussion Book of Mormon geography/Statements/First Presidency Letter - FAIRMormon This letter is often used and misquoted to support a North American location for the Book of Mormon events. Many Church leaders have supported a NA location for Book of Mormoon events. Many others have also supported a Mesoamerican location. All this tells us is that Church leaders have their own ideas with respect to not revealed concepts of interest to members of the Church. The only revealed information that we have about Book of Mormon geography is found in the Wentworth letter (that it occurred on the American continent) and the text of the Book of Mormon itself (translated by Joseph Smith Jr by the gift and power of God). Instead of relying on the opinions of others, take the time and make the effort to study it out for yourselves by correlating the over 500 descriptions of the geograpy found in the text of the Book of Mormon. It is not an easy task but scholars like Sorenson have made the effort and published their results and opinions. I have spent over 15 years, starting where Sorenson left off and still have not finished. Good luck in your studies of the Book of Mormon. Larry P

The Book of Mormon is a companion to the Bible. Both contain the concepts that draw us closer to God. The Book of Mormon is a testimony from a different people and thus provides another point of view about the Gospel. It is the Gospel that draws us nearer to God. Mormon wrote it to testify that Jesus is the Messiah. Knowing that Jesus is the Messiah and what his mission is draws us closer to God. You might be interested in Brant Gardner's concept of how and why Mormon wrote and included what he did into this great book of scripture. Mormon's Editorial Method and Meta-Message Larry P

This is not a WIKI but does go through and comment verse by verse. Book of Mormon Commentary He has expanded this in book form. Six volumes "Second Witness" Second Witness Larry P

Ok Livy Since no one seems to be presenting evidence for a location I will suggest the following description of the journey of a search party sent out by King Limhi in an attempt to contact the Nephites in Zarahemla as support for a Mesoamerican location. In Mosiah 8: 7 And the king said unto him: Being grieved for the afflictions of my people, I caused that forty and three of my people should take a journey into the wilderness, that thereby they might find the land of Zarahemla, that we might appeal unto our brethren to deliver us out of bondage. 8 And they were lost in the wilderness for the space of many days, yet they were diligent, and found not the land of Zarahemla but returned to this land, having traveled in a land among many waters, having discovered a land which was covered with bones of men, and of beasts, and was also covered with ruins of buildings of every kind, having discovered a land which had been peopled with a people who were as numerous as the hosts of Israel. Although they failed in the attempt, they had an interesting trip. Some features of the trip verse 8. 1. The trip started in a wilderness area, presumably the Narrow Strip of Wilderness to the north of the Land of Nephi. 2. they traveled in a land among many waters. 3. They then discovered a land covered by ruins. Later in Mosiah 21: 25 Now king Limhi had sent, previous to the coming of Ammon, a small number of men to search for the land of Zarahemla; but they could not find it, and they were lost in the wilderness. 26 Nevertheless, they did find a land which had been peopled; yea, a land which was covered with dry bones; yea, a land which had been peopled and which had been destroyed; and they, having supposed it to be the land of Zarahemla, returned to the land of Nephi, having arrived in the borders of the land not many days before the coming of Ammon. Mormon tells us that having supposed that the ruins were from the destruction of Zarahemla, they returnded to the land of Nephi. After only two generations from the time thy left the land of Zarahemla, it is reasonable for them to know that the city of Zarahemla was located next to the river Sidon and on the west bank. Therefore they would have been looking for a city located on the west bank of a river flowing to the north. In order to find such a city they would have had to follow along the left bank of a major river until they came to the City of Zarahemla. Now lets examine the following satellite map. If one travels north along the Usamacinta River, one first comes to a land of many waters. Continuing on to the west one crosses the original course of the Grijalva River and right there on the west bank are the ruins of La Venta, a major ruins essentially deserted some 250 years before the Limhite arrival. If they had traveled down the Grijalva River, missing Zarahemla because it was located on the Usamacinta, they would have returned to the land of Nephi without ever traveling through the land of many waters. They therefore must have chosen the Usamacita by mistake, another story, missed Zarahemla, traveled among many waters, found ruins and returned by the same route to the land of Nephi. This convergence between the text, the archeological record and the geography of the Grijalva and Usamacinta river basins is strong support, not proof, for a Mesoamerican location for the Book of Mormon Culture. Larry P

When less than ten percent of the Mayan sites have been excavated, it seems unlikely that 75 percent of the glyphs have been translated. I will agree that most of the syllabic glyphs have been documnted but just like the 26 letters of the alphabet can be used in millions of words, the maya glyphs can be combined not only as sylables but as rebuses and that still leaves the logographs that are not made up from sylabic glyphs. I attended the Maya glyph workshop at Austin last year and the impression I got was that the work of translation is just beginning on the glyphs that are presently know. Let alone those that have not yet been uncovered. Larry P

Unfortunately, their location is nowhere near a seashore to the east as described in Ether for the Hill Ramah, later known as Cumorah. Nice try but no blue ribbon. It is about the same distance from the Gulf as Cerro Bernal but in the wrong direction. Nice try though. Larry P

Henry Eyring was my Hero. As a graduate student, I chose the field of Chemical and Biochemical Kinetics. Eyring was the father of modern chemical kinetics and it was based on his theories that I developed my concept of biochemical kinetics and our labrotories contribution to an understanding of the complex reactions involved in human drug metabolism and elimination. Larry P

Yes it is a real written language. It is called hieratic and is a derivative of Egyption hierglypics From the Wiki Hieratic is a cursive writing system used in pharaonic Egypt that developed alongside the hieroglyphic system,[1] to which it is intimately related Since it was derived from the glyphic system it is a reformed way to write the language. However it did not imply any reformation of the spoken language. The BofM speaks of a reformed Egyptian writing system as well. It is not the same as the hieratic system although it may have developed for the same reasons, the need for a more easily written form as opposed to glyphs. In the case of the BofM there is no indication that it is a spoken language any more than hieratic is a spoken language. If you mean was it a real language that was spoken at some time then the answer is no. Larry P

You ask for a lot of things but apparently refuse to accept what is already there. There are massive amounts of evidence but it all comes in bits and pieces. There is no smoking gun. Brant Gardner explains this better than I can. Larry P

interesting. There are supposed to be more dogs there but I have not heard of any one else seeing any of them. Larry P

You are right if you are talking about random data such as clouds and trees. The problem is that with the dog the data is not random it consists of a set of interrelated data (spots arranged to form a picture of a dog) placed in an envirement of random data (unrelated spots). Yes the mind sees what it wants to see but in the case of real data camaflaged by random data of a similar appearance to the single units of the camaflaged data, once the organized data is recognized then it is no longer random and as Brant says as well as others in the field of visual camaflage, it becomes real and you then can not not see the dog. The more the real data appears to be similar to the random data the harder it is to see but that does not preclude its being there. Larry P

I was just looking at Brant Gardners presentation at the FAIR conference in 2006. He presented an example that may be related to your problems. It is called "seeing the dog". Here is the dog. All you see at first is a bunch of spots. However if you stop looking at the individual spots and try to look at the picture as a whole you will see a dog. Once you have seen the dog, you will not be able to not see the dog. Brant used this illustration to point out that no single piece of data that supports the Book of Mormon is conclusive or even somewhat compelling but when taken together and in context with each other they form a picture that is compelling. And just like with the dog, once you have seen it, you will always see it. It is somewhat like this with gaining a testimony of the restoration. However if you concentrate on the parts of the picture that are not a part of the dog, you will never see the dog. For those of you who have not yet seen the dog, here it is. Just as with this picture, the dog only includes a small portion of the total number of spots in the picture but once seen is always clearly there. So does the gospel of the restoration only include a small part of the data available to us but once seen , it stands out against the background. Larry P

It wont. If they are married in the temple after cancellation of sealing there is no calling that he cannot be called to. My son is married to a good lady who is a divorcee and has not been told that he is ineligable for any calling. There are some limits on temple callings. You can not be called to work in the temple for 5 years after a divorce. All divorces must be cleared with the Stake President before a new temple reccomend can be issued. Marrying a divorcee has no effect on the person who has never had a divorce other than if the other partner was married in the Temple. In that case they cannot be married in the temple until the Temple Marriage has been annulled. Larry P

Although, I do not always agree with Ainsworth, in this case, I think he is right. It is clear to me, based on the text, that Moroni did not join his father in battle until the very last battle. Even then, I suspect that he was put in charge of the unit chosen to defend those who were unable to fight. I particulary like the scipture where his father commends him for his diligence in his calling to preach the Gospel. Moroni 8: 1 An epistle of my afather Mormon, written to me, Moroni; and it was written unto me soon after my calling to the ministry. And on this wise did he write unto me, saying: 2 My beloved son, Moroni, I rejoice exceedingly that your Lord Jesus Christ hath been mindful of you, and hath called you to his ministry, and to his holy work. 3 I am mindful of you always in my prayers, continually praying unto God the Father in the name of his Holy Child, Jesus, that he, through his infinite agoodness and bgrace, will keep you through the endurance of faith on his name to the end. To me the whole book of Moroni reads like a missionary guide and contains instructions and inspiration for anyone called to the ministry and to preach the gospel. Larry P