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This is something I am curious about as well. In my experience my Bishop and SP have discussed my situations without me being present. I was not aware that there was confidentiality, but I was once upset that my SP knew things that I only told my Bishop. Now, if the rule is that the two of them can talk together about problems, but between the two of them they must keep it confidential it wouldn't bother me as much. So, I myself am curious if this is standard LDS procedure.

Okay, I got some news and I'll share with you what I found out, since what I heard here it sounds like it depends on the Bishop you have and their opinion of the worthiness/knowledge of the patron. My cousin has trouble reading because of his dyslexia but in general has a good handle on the Gospel. They want him to first focus on getting the PH promotion to Elder. Since him and one other person are the only ones preparing right now they may not offer the class and just allow Home Teachers to review the material with the people to prep them for the temple. Then, when enough people need the class they will offer it, and it will provide a refresher to those who have studied the material under their HT. My cousin has worked the past year on being worthy, he even went through a 12-step program to get off of chewing tobacco and is really looking forward to growing spiritually through this process. I have enjoyed teaching my cousin and its been a spiritual journey for him this past year. So, everyone, please keep us in your prayers during this process.

I had a quick question. Is the temple prep class required before someone can get a Live Ordinance Recommend and go to the temple for their first Endowment session. Assuming a person is in good standing, meets worthiness requirements, has a good handle on the gospel, etc. can they get the recommend before completing all of the temple prep seminar? The reason I ask is I have a person that will have missed the I think the first session of the class and he would like to join the class already in session and maybe get the recommend while there's still a couple sessions remaining. So, is the class a required prerequisite or is it just a recommendation? I realize that ultimately readiness can only be determined by a Bishop, but should we not even make the appointment for him until completing the class?

I have a brother that is gay and once I explained to him why the church has reacted the way it does to prop 8 and its policies about gays he was a little more understanding. He lived with me for 2 years and would never attend church with me though. I agree with gay people that homosexuality is usually a trait you are born with, but I think that is true with any other sexual desire. Many people have desires they have to suppress in this life, and that is the challenge of having a body in this world.

I would pray about it, since the Lord will let you know when it is time. Not only has mine increased my testimony, but watching others get it has increased mine as well. I took my cousin in for his and there was one part the Patriarch could not have possibly known about my cousin that was mentioned. It sent a chill through me while I heard it.

Just for some info, there is something called "Chinese Vitex" in Airborne, the herbal/vitamin supplement made by a school teacher to help boost the immune system. I'm not sure if this is the same herb, but this may be something you want to look into.

Misdemeanor driving w/o a license in California.To give a brief update to the situation, we confided in a member of the ward that is friends with a retired judge that is a member, so he's going to get the advice we need for us. Thanks to everyone who contrributed to the thread so far.

In defense of my previous post, D&C 109:7 says to seek out of the best books words of wisdom, which is what I was suggesting. Also, I agree with the blog link Skippy gave about Temple Study, its a very good blog.

I think to really appreciate the Temple Endowment in its proper perspective you really need to realize its connection with Masonic symbolism. I would do some research on the meanings of signs, tokens, and all other elements and how they relate to their counterparts in Freemasonry, keeping in mind the Nauvoo Saints knew all of these things. One of the first things I learned when studying the writings of Albert Pike, was that any initiation or ritual, to be effective, must be the opening of a problem. Therefore, you should not understand all of the endowment now, but you now have a basis to start a whole new field of research. In Hugh Nibley's "Joseph Smith Papyri," the book itself is structured in the same sequence as the Endowment, so that is a good starting point. For masonic symbolism I recommend Albert Pike's "Morals and Dogma" and Manly P. Hall's "Secret Teachings of All Ages" (Both masonic works are public domain and available on the net.)

I believe you, but this doesn't make any sense. A church, or any corporation, should want to know if its local leadership is running it into the ground. Also, this involves the stake president and his personal feelings getting in the way of how he does his job, so I would think the area authority would want to check it out to see if it was true.I talked to the bishop tonight and it seems like it was more the stake president than it was the bishop, so I hope there is a way to talk to someone about him.

Yes, it directly involves me.

How does one go about that? Do Area Authorities have e-mails, websites, or ways to access them, or must one contact SLC?

I had a quick question: What is the complaint procedure for members if you have an issue with the bishop and stake president? Who is the next person above the stake president that can handle complaints? For instance, let's say that the bishop and stake president are letting personal issues of things that have occurred outside of church get in the way of how they are making decisions involving an individual (and this can be proven), what would be the complaint procedure?

Thanks to everyone who answered about this. I definitely feel a lot better about it now, and you've definitely gave me some good advice about seeking council.

Thanks for the response. He wasn't planning to do it all the time, and they ran out of money and couldn't take a cab. It was kinda a spur of the moment decision that resulted in an error in thinking. If they had it to do over again they probably would have done something different.The attorney part was for legal and not spiritual advice, so would that change things?

I had a two quick questions. Is breaking traffic laws cause for losing your temple recommend? We had a situation where my grandmother and cousin were gone picking up medicine for me while I was at home recovering from surgery. My grandmother began having side effects from her meds and couldn't drive anymore, so she let my cousin, who has no license but is going to take the test and get them next week. He has never before had a drivers license. They were driving down the main road and pulled over by a cop for no headlights. The cop charged my cousin with a misdemeanor and indicated on the ticket that he would have to appear in court. We are planning to have the charge dropped from a misdemeanor to an infraction because of the circumstances, so he can avoid jail time. My questions are: Will we lose temple priviledges when the church finds out? Also, is it appropriate to ask a member of the ward that is an attorney for advice? I understand that the advice given on the boards is not intended to be how the church handles all situations, but you guys have always gave me good advice, so I'd like to know in your general experience what might happen. Thanks in advance.

Kerry Shirts: Since Kabbalist hasn't been on the forum the past couple days, do you think you could answer my question about the Gadianton Robbers that I posed earlier in this thread? I'm pretty curious.

Could be. The BoM translates it Gadianton in both eras, of the Jaredites as well as Nephites and Lamanites, so it could be that JS chose to put it into English as Gadianton, when in reality it was somehow "people of the goat" in each language.Anyway, any thoughts Kabbalist about the similarities in Gadianton names?

I'm male and single and went through the first time when I was 28 I think. My Bishop told me the requirements were that you were 18, held the Melchizedek Priesthood if male, took the temple prep class, and be able to properly answer the recommend questions from a "have you" perspective instead of "will you." I think someone should go through if they are serious, have geniune faith in the truthfulness of the church, and are prepared to keep the covenants. I think the covenants help put the plan of salvation into a better systematic perspective and enhance your understanding of the gospel. Also, what you learn in the temple greatly enhances your outside study of the subject. You will finally understand what all of these 600 page books by Hugh Nibley are talking about, as well as how other ancient traditions relate to the church, and it will open up a whole new dimension to your study and understandng of the Gospel. Also, the Spirit really speaks to your heart in the environment of the temple. You get something new out of it every time you go. You will also get more opportunities to do work for the dead. So, I'm all for it. The temple is my favorite part of the church and has blessed my life more than anything!

Kabbalist, I had a question. On the Gospel Discussion forum we have been discussing the Gadianton Robbers and it got me to thinking about their name origins. I know you said that the name Gadianton has to do with goats, and that makes sense with them following Satan, but I was wondering about the names connected with them, since they sound similar. Giddianhi was a chief of the Gadianton Robbers, Gidgidonnah is another name I believe is connected with them. Gadiani, Gadiomnah, and Gimgimno were wicked cities that were destroyed. What got my curiousity was the common trend of "Gid" and "Gad" in the names. Are all of the Gadianton Robber names connected? Could these be some kind of names given as part of a ceremony or having some sort of ceremonial significance? Anyway, thanks for all you have been doing on this forum, this has been an interesting study.

I would normally agree with you except for one thing, every other characteristic of masonry they meet it exactly. When wearing a lambskin covering over your loins is added to a list of secret signs, tokens, passwords, covenants, and rituals it fits masonry to a t. If that were the only characteristic I'd say we were talking about some herders that raise animals for profit, but when its added to the above list its an obvious masonic reference. Therefore, we can conclude that the Book of Mormon is in conflict with the "authentic school" of masonic history espoused on Page 75 of the Scottish Rite ritual monitor, the view that is held by Brother Cook and most masons today. I feel that believing the BoM to be an actual history requires believing in an ancient origin for these elements, a view being abandoned by most masonic historians. My personal opinion is I'm putting my faith in the Book of Mormon in that I feel it knows more than most historians do today, and that we may see more evidence later to reveal that these things go back farther than believed. Most people I've talked to in my ward that found out I'm a mason told me they believe that masonry goes back to ancient times and that explains the similarities in mormonism. I think its more the intellectual crowd that's taking the authentic school view.

Sure,3 Nephi 4:7: 7 And it came to pass that they did come up to battle; and it was in the sixth month; and behold, great and terrible was the day that they did come up to battle; and they were girded about after the manner of robbers; and they had a lamb-skin about their loins, and they were dyed in blood, and their heads were shorn, and they had head-plates upon them; and great and terrible was the appearance of the armies of Giddianhi, because of their armor, and because of their being dyed in blood. From the Grand Lodge of California website: The White Lamb Skin Apron The lamb has in all ages been deemed an emblem of innocence. He, therefore, who wears the lambskin as a badge of Masonry, is thereby continually reminded of that purity of life and conduct which is essentially necessary to his gaining admission into the Celestial Lodge above, where the Supreme Architect of the Universe presides.

The purpose of this thread was a discussion of the secret combinations mentioned in the Book of Mormon, as you say. This secret combination wore aprons, used secret signs and passwords, hand grips, made covenants, and met in secret. All of these characteristics fit the masons perfectly, as well as temple Mormonism. However, the only difference with the BoM combination is that they do evil instead of good and follow Satan instead of God. This is partly why HiJolly earlier in the thread disagreed with a poster who attempted to characterize the masons with the Gadianton Robbers. The BoM account makes perfect sense that Satan wants to counterfeit the true combination by coming up with his own that has the same elements, such as aprons, grips, signs, tokens, words, covenants, rituals, etc. Now, if what these authentic school masons are saying is true, that these elements mentioned above were dreamed up by a bunch of guys in the back of a bar in the early 1700s who wanted to start a new fraternity, then Satan did not counterfeit any elements of the Gospel with the Gadianton Robbers. Either that, or the BoM account isn't literal truth. (which I believe it is true) For the Book of Mormon to mention this many masonic elements, as does the LDS temple ritual, it makes it a very critical issue and very much does involve masonry. There is no way this many common elements could be coincidence. In considering the identity of the Gadianton Robbers, whether in past times or our day, which is what this thread is about, knowing the characteristics of the combination and what Satan has counterfeited is necessary. Therefore, masonry should be discussed in this thread.

Yet, the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon is not asked in the temple recommend interviews. Emphasis is placed on the temple ceremony as being necessary for exaltation in the Celestial Kingdom. If the ceremony could be proven false (which I don't think it can) it would definitely disprove Mormonism.However, an ancient origin of these elements of the ceremony supports, but not proves Mormonism.

I fail to see why people want to be so rude about this topic when I find it interesting. Also, I find this comment very distateful as I know many men in my lodge that do not drink at all, in fact I have a minister and a rabbi in my lodge. Many of them are upstanding people who never drink or play pool.The purpose of the thread was to discuss "secret combinations" and the subject turned to how masonry and the temple are related, as the secret combinations of the Book of Mormon are examples of Satan's counterfeit.