NeuroTypical

Sorry - could I ask for a little clarification here? Protected how, and from what? What does this protection for the law-abiding look like to you?Let's use the example of running a red light as given by the OP. What dangers present themselves if you run a red light? How many of them remain if you stay put? At the very least you're protected from getting a ticket and having a good chunk of your next paycheck or two given to the city.I guess I see what you're saying. But with all the innocent law-abiding people out there who die due to drunk drivers or innatentive drivers, or poorly marked road hazzards, or weather-related deaths, I wouldn't say that following the law makes one protected. If you're talking eternal perspective, we're fine. If you're talking having blessings in life, we're fine. If you're talking "being a good person means you'll never face adversity or harm in this life", well, I can't go that far. I don't agree with this either, because of situations where there are unjust laws from unjust men. People have to break the laws of man all the time to save their families and their souls, in places like North Korea or Iran.

I would submit that one popular choice for folks in your situation is really not a good option and should be avoided at all costs. Please, for the love of pete, do NOT bring an innocent child into this rocky and unstable situation. Lots of folks make that choice, in the hopes that the burden of a child will get the other spouse to 'wake up' and change their behavior. Unfortunately, it doesn't often succeed. Since there are no innocent lives involved yet, it seems to me that your two legitimate choices are to try to make the marriage work, or get a divorce. I figure you have to pick one and go for it. No idea which one you should pick, but good luck.

It kills me to say it, but I must give Michael Moore props for doing some interestingly-put-together counter protesting. I suppose I'm happier with the folks who just protect the attendees, like the YW group who go to conference and sing hymns that drown out the countercultist folk. But I must appreciate Michael for standing on the right side of the fence here - against Phelps.LM

You might have aquainted yourself with the rules of this site, before just assuming that we're here to provide you a podium from which to challenge our beliefs. Poor assuming, and crummy netiquette on your part.It could have saved you the effort. The folks who fund this site are interested in spreading our story. If you want to challenge the story, you should seek out another forum (like ornery.com, or mormonapologetics.org, or mormondiscussions.com). I mean, it isn't like this is the only place you can find us. You wanna argue, go find the mormons who wanna argue with you. Yeah. A snarky zinger. Hallmark of the better scholarly mind, apparently. Well, here's a witty rejoinder of equal relevance for ya: "Neener, neener, boogers on you!"

Same here. No and no.The thing you're missing here, is that we aren't LDS because Joseph Smith set us up to prove a negative, and we're all too dumb to know what that means, so we became Mormon. That is not what is going on here. Our scriptures expressly spell out a series of steps one should take, in order to get an unmistakable witness from God that the incredible claims of Joseph and the BoM are true. This witness, is what we call 'recieving a testimony'. It's not that nobody can prove it false. It's that God tells us it's true. Quite a difference, yes? LM

I watched an Indian version of the original Star Trek tv show and enjoyed the heck out of it. They actually made a better Bill Shatner than Bill Shatner.

Thanks, Elphaba. For the record, I don't really have any solution to advocate at all. I'm just thinking that before a solution can even be visualized, folks need to be aware of the realities of the current situation. And I find that both sides of the issue tend to be pretty unaware of various important aspects of reality. The pro-MM folks tend to be unaware of the realities of who produces and distributes the stuff, and who uses it. The anti-MM folks tend to be unaware of it's legitimate uses, and have an oversensationalized concerns of mj's impact on a human soul. Nobody will ever budge an inch to work together until they allow themselves to understand the other side a bit. LM

Hi searching,Whenever I hear a concern like this, I like to ask the person expressing it two very simple questions: What caliber of individual do you think God chose to be his Biblical prophets, and why do you think that? It seems that folks sort of assume way a prophet should look, images of righteous and perfect paternal father figures bestowing pearls of Godly wisdom, inspiring people to abandon their sins. This sort of background image folks have in their minds clash with some of the stories we hear about Joseph Smith. The problem is, this vague undefined image of what a prophet is, is usually at odds with the image the Bible presents as well. God picked folks with all sorts of imperfect people with character defects to be His mouthpiece in the OT. They were not perfect. Some of them had all sorts of problems with adultry, or lying, or selling their gifts for money, or refusing to deliver the message God had for them, or delivering a different message, even murder. The Bible records this stuff happened while these guys were prophets, on the Lord's errand. So yeah, Joseph Smith sometimes made mistakes, and sometimes was given to a little bluster and passion. He got a huge kick out of dressing up in uniform and marching up and down with his legion. He was occasionally seen wrestling with children and laughing, or sliding on a block of ice for fun. There was a lot of 1800's specific stuff about his labors and beliefs that we read about. If you're suggesting that any of that means his claim to be a prophet is somehow weakened, I'd challenge you to try to put it into words why. When I've heard people try to put it into words, they always end up with stuff that can be pointed at Biblical prophets just as easily. And I believe you when you say you have accepted Christ, and I'm thinking that the exercise would help you clarify what's in your Bible for you. What do you think? LM

Not a good day for Japan. Good day to pray for them. Anyone hearing anything about tsunamis hitting other countries?

Welcome whitetiger! I love the big cats too.

No it isn't. It's an intensely powerful crush between two people. But crush it remains. That's wonderful, and worth highlighting! We tend to gloss over the blessings of learning and accepting the gospel, but at the end of the day, JOY can be a rare thing in our human existence. So much effort is spent on ways to obtain it. I'm glad you're obtaining some. I don't know about love to understand the "shoulds". In a similar situation, I could see myself asking her if we could date after her mission. Maybe writing her a letter and sending it to her after she's transferred?LM

Hi Happier - welcome! Thanks to your hubby for his service. Good luck in your questioning - hope we can help.

Howdy and welcome, searching! Good luck on your search.

Completely agree. I'm still thinking my explanation is much more plausible. Potheads are mostly male between 18 and 45. Potheads now get their weed from legal dispensaries.I guess I should ask the obvious question - are you under the impression that MM dispensaries only serve folks with legitimate needs? If so, can you tell me where you got that impression? I have given very little reasoning in this thread, and am pretty much only describing the realities of the situation. I've said nothing about wanting to keep mj illegal. I've admitted several times that MM probably has a legitimate medical use. In fact, I've admitted my mom could have benefited from it's use. Fine /w me, but that's not what is happening. Did you read my story about how potheads get their legal MM? That is what is happening.

Sorry - could I ask for a little clarification here? Protected how, and from what? What does this protection for the law-abiding look like to you?

Not sure what makes that so obvious. Both my parents had needs for pain management in hospice environments at the end of their lives. My mom would have been a good candidate for MM, as oral meds made her nauseous, her veins were drying up and going away, and patches seemed ineffective. My wife has migranes. I'm 3 months into my painful 5 month recovery from shoulder surgery. None of that changes the fact that a huge chunk, possibly the majority of folks walking into legal dispensaries with prescriptions in their hands, are the same people who were getting their weed in the alley before they could get it legally. Most are men between 18-45. Again, I'm not saying MM doesn't have legitimate uses. I'm not saying there aren't people who benefit from MM. I'm saying the practical impact of legalizing MM, is legalizing it for everyone, whether they've got a legitimate need or not. My urging to spend a day watching the people go in and out, was probably not the best way of trying to convince folks of this. It really isn't about judging folks. It's about gathering data. If the majority of folks going to dispensaries actually had legitimate pain needs, then you'd see a wider range of both genders from a wider variety of ages. But as it is, majority = males, 18-45. Tell me Elphaba, is there something special about women that they don't need pain meds, or don't obtain them? Is there something special about kids or men middle aged or older, where they don't need pain meds or don't obtain them? Truly, I don't get the resistance you're throwing up here. Ok - MM is a good thing and blessing to many people with actual pain. It still means that everyone else who wants a toke can get one 'legally'. Maybe it would help if I explained how it happens? Dood wants to score some weed so he and his girlfriend can get high. So he goes to a "doctor" and gets a "prescription". Here in CO, the MM law defines "doctor" as not just a doctor, but anyone currently training to be one. And you don't have to be accepted into any medical program, pre-med works too. And by pre-med, that means as little as taking a few community college classes. So, dood wants to get high, he used to go to a dealer. But now he goes to a script writer, who is basically someone who writes 'pain med' on a piece of paper. Then he gives the piece of paper to a dispensary, and has his pick of Afternoon Delight, or Sweet Freedom, or maybe some enriched brownie mix or maybe even some fried chicken battered in MJ breading. He and his girlfriend go off and get high. One benefit, if he gets robbed by some jerk in a rival gang on his way to his girlfriend's house, now he calls the cops and reports it, whereas he didn't used to because they'd arrest him for posession. The cops are happy to write off MJ as stuff they spend time on, so they can focus on other things. They might look at this system as a way of establishing probable cause for a search for something worse, but otherwise they don't care. So again, to recap highights, in no particular order: 1- Pot heads are getting MJ aboveboard now since they legalized MM. 2- Various govt agencies are currently acting as factions in the drug trade, sometimes doing business with columbian growers who also do kidnappings, underage slavery and prostitution, and murders. 3- MM probably has legitimate medical uses that sometimes can't be filled by other medicines. 4- Lots of Americans have chronic pain. 5- The fact that that points 3 and 4 exist, does not negate the reality of points 1 and 2. LM

Yes, well, the issue with MJ isn't just whether it's good for you or not. The issue is also about where it comes from. The south of the border drug trade is closely linked (as in different limbs of the same body) to child slavery and prostitution, as well as the kidnappings and killings you occasionally read about. It was bad enough when the columbian gangs would kill each other over trade routes into the US (35,000 dead since 2007 in Mexico alone). But now that homeland growing is getting legal, the violence is spreading to this side of the border more and more. A cartel will not sit idly by while tens of thousands of legal US growers open up and start eating in to profits. Not only that, but govt agencies, once waging war against the drug trade, has now joined in as a faction, sometimes making production agreements with the same guys who do the child prostitution stuff. But hey, like Elphaba says, it helps out a few folks who actually benefit from it medically. And like rex says, it's not like the end user of this stuff ever forced a 13 yr old into prostitution and drug-running, or kidnapped a US govt agent and mailed the decapitated head to his wife. Anyone want to try to claim that legalizing medicinal MJ has lowered crime here in the states? LM

Please understand - I am not claiming MM does not have legitimate medical uses. I am not claiming that it doesn't help people. I am claiming that the only way someone can believe that MM is only used for legitimate medical purposes, is to ignore easily findable facts. I am claiming that in legalizing MM, we're basically legalizing marijuana for anyone who wants it, whether or not they have anything close to an actual medical condition. I am not judging anyone, nor am I urging anyone to judge anyone.I am claiming that the only way someone can believe that MM is only used for legitimate medical purposes, is to ignore easily findable facts. I am claiming that in legalizing MM, we're basically legalizing marijuana for anyone who wants it, whether or not they have anything close to an actual medical condition. Key word - "some".My wife has contacts in both the DEA, and in the drug culture. We both keep abreast of the ongoing legal battles, and studies done. And you don't need to be a specialist in pain management to reach the glaringly obvious conclusion, that MM is in effect, legalizing marijuana for anyone who wants it. Admitting that overwhelmingly supportable observation, does not equate to ignoring that it also helps some people with legitimate medical needs. LM

Yeah, I know. We have the same deal here in Colorado. And yet somehow, the vast majority of MJ prescription holders still end up being 18-45 year old males without any signs of terminal illnesses. It's interesting to watch go by. If you ever have a saturday afternoon to kill, park across the street from your local dispensary and watch who goes in and out. You won't see many people in wheelchairs, or folks bald with chemotherapy, or any such thing. LM

Mine is a recent picture of myself. I like looking at it - it reminds me of what a virile volcano of studly manhood I am.

Hey, folks traveling around the country in their RV forecasing doom, fine with me. If they're not kidnapping people or planning on drinking poisoned koolaid or whatnot, then good for them. I wouldn't mind if Christ came in a few weeks and ushered in the millenium. Improves the dating pool for my daughters I wanna marry of in the next decade or two. LM

Again, smoking MJ is legal in oregon. If you want something done, going to the cops probably won't result in anything.

I'm not sure what this has to do with anyone being LDS or non-LDS. Kids have been messing up and agonizing over what to tell the parents since Adam & Eve got kicked out of the garden. Here is the answer: 1. Be a man and accept responsibility for your actions. Don't hide behind your girlfriend. 2. If her dad owns a gun, be prepared to duck. 3. While you are ducking, explain your intention to honorably marry her. While he is reloading, make a good case for your prospects and ability to provide for her. If he stops firing, you're good to go. (At least, that answer would be best for society. But like slamjet says, that may not look like real life. Her parents may not even care, or you may be too immature to get married, or living in their basement for the next decade might appeal to everyone. Your exact situation will vary.)

Fine by me. But if your mindset doesn't change, you won't be getting sealed in a year either, unless you choose to lie in the temple recommend interview. Sealings and temple attendence are for people who have decided to deepen their covenants with God - not for people who get ticked off when told they can do something later, but they really really wanna do it right now. With the maturity level you're showing here, I'm thinking it makes much more sense, because more mistakes are heading your way. The word 'heinous' doesn't belong there. The church leaders you've been talking to sure didn't use it. You throw it in there in order to add melodrama and sensationalism into something where it doesn't belong. And you're ticked off about it. Well of course not. He told you something you didn't want to hear, so now you're ticked off at him. My 7 year old does the same thing when I make her eat her peas. She gives me the silent treatment and the evil eye, and goes and hangs out with Mamma.Really, there is nothing wrong with getting married. It makes physical intimacy a covenental thing, as two people have promised to live life together. Of course, a marriage requires patience, hard work and sacrifice to be sucessful. You're showing how much patience you have, which doesn't bode well. Are you a hard worker and willing to sacrifice for your bride? There's hope for you if you are. Probably the best advice and counsel I can offer, is please, for the love of pete, have backup forms of birth control. Married or not, sealed or not - I advise and counssel you to not make babies for a few years. Use that time to grow and mature.

Most likely not. It might give police probable cause to go knock on the guy's door. But since all they know about the situation is "dood might smoke a little weed", they probably wouldn't bother, because there are more pressing matters requiring their attention. (Not to mention that the cultivation, possession, and use of marijuana is legal in Oregon if you tell someone it's medicine.)