Traveler

I believe it was Elder Maxwell who referred to this as sacrificing our animal nature on the alter.
Thanks, -Wade Englund-

In another thread I tried to address law as related to covenants.  But I would speak for myself and my understanding as it relates to the “Law of Sacrifice”.   As intelligent beings addressing the goal of freedom and liberty (salvation?) as opposed to bondage, captivity and Hell I have concluded that there is a three step process or progression.
I believe the first step towards freedom and liberty is the “Law of Sacrifice”.  For me it help to understand the Law of Sacrifice by realizing the dark principle that opposes it – which is the opposite of sacrifice or self-indulgence.
Sacrifice is the first step of discipline.  All things are ordered through discipline.   Sacrifice is the beginning of discipline and is necessary to become a disciple of Christ that is the example of sacrifice.
 
It is also my opinion that dark forces try to corrupt the understanding of sacrifice to define sacrifice as forsaking or giving up – an abandonment.  This is misleading – the real meaning of sacrifice is to make eternal and sacred.  What is given up or abandoned is the individual pride of self-ownership and control.  The example of sacrifice is Christ – that disciplined himself and his desires to become one with the light of Christ that is the power of G-dlyness.  Thus we sacrifice our sins and discipline ourselves to become one with G-d the Father and Christ.
 
The Traveler

I am somewhat conflicted with how this thread is going.  I will begin by saying I believe we have an obligation to help one another.  So how can we help anyone if we do not know what it is that they can improve?   Or believe that we can judge such a thing?  Then how can we help them if we refuse to say or do anything about how they can improve. 
Has no one ever had a coach in sports?  Has no one ever taken music lessons to learn techniques?   At one point of my life I thought I would be a teacher (I cannot spell so teaching did not work out).  While I was studying I thought to specialize in exceptional learners – in other words genius.   Does anyone want to guess what the #1 most common denominator of the world’s geniuses is?  The answer is that they have a mentor.
Sometimes a mentor tells their novice about almost insignificant things that they and almost everybody else are doing wrong.  Sometimes mentors tell their novice to swallow their pride and keep going even after everyone else has quit and told them to quit as well.  One thing I do not believe is that a successful mentor tells anyone – that is; to quit or take the easy way out.  My father was a mentor to me.  One thing he told me was that failure is used incorrectly – as long as you are striving and making progress he would say there is no failure.  Then he would say that a failure is someone that has accepted the excuse.  He would say failure is never because of anyone else – failure is one of the things you can only do yourself.  But then to him – not winning at sports was not a failure. 
And as my father would say – giving up on a good thing is the worst kind of failure.   Almost as bad as turning your mentors into critics.  The difference between a critic and a mentor is in the person that no longer believes in themselves – that they can do better.  How does a mentor fail?  They give up on their novice and become afraid to talk about improvements and how to accomplish good – especially through covenant with G-d.
 
The Traveler

@anatess2  and @NeuroTypical 
I like to learn from history – I believe if you want different results than what has happened in the past you will need to do something differently.  I would remind @anatess2 that the Nazis in Germany never had majority support – their support was always less than 50% of the Germans that voted.  My point is – war is not so much about numbers as it is power and ability to advance an agenda. 
One of the biggest mistakes in pre WWII Germany was the failure to recognize problematic red flags.  Joseph Goebbels, used violence during the early political campaigns involving the Nazis.  He called first for demonstrations directed at any and all political opponents – then, to make demonstrations more effective, he called for violence and destruction of property.   I would also point out that the Nazis always blamed their political opposition for the violence that they initiated.  The Nazis opposed every effort by any political opposition regardless of its merits but on the principle that if it was not initiated by the Nazi party it was to be opposed - there were no party cross-over votes --- ever.
I am not saying that political conservatives are angles.  I am suggesting that the ultra-liberal political movement in the US is similar to the Nazis.  Keep in mind that the Nazis were not conservatives – they were national socialists – Liberals that wanted government control and regulation controlling all social activities, including health care, education, religious influence in government, business and industry.  Also any government agency (especially any law enforcement agency – like ICE) that the Nazis did not or could not control – they called for the dismissal and end of that agency and the permanent removal from government service of all the management of that agency – because according to the Nazis – for being unjust or ineffective.
 
The Traveler

Appears you have now found at least one "point" to having a bit of a "pointless" recommend.
If you are a member in "good standing" why not just simply go get your recommend and purchase your own garments rather than attempt to find some legal EU "gotcha" on the Church?
Breach of law - seriously? Perhaps a breach of common sense, and not on the part of the Church.
 

Sorry for not posting earlier – I have been disposed lately.   Over my life experience I have been taught the following:
#1. All blessings come from G-d.  Prayers come from people
#2. Blessings require someone authorized to speak for G-d.   Prayers can be offered by anybody.
#3.  Blessings require the faith of both the person speaking for G-d and those receiving the blessing.  Prayers only require the faith of the person praying and participating with the prayer.
 
When offering prayers:
#1.  Use humble speech – do not make demands or promise deals.  Rather have an attitude of asking and pleading.
#2.  Show respect – use language that recognizes the glory and majesty of G-d.  Do not use crude or rude language.
#3.  Prayers are addressed to G-d our Father – in the name of Jesus Christ
#4.  Speak of other with respect.
#5. When praying for yourself – speak openly of your concerns and need.  When praying for a group or others; speak for them and not yourself (this applies for prayers at church or at dinner – anytime you are praying with others).
 
When pronouncing a blessing:
#1.  Identify the authority for the blessing.  If you are a priesthood holder indicate our priesthood authority.  If you have faith in Christ stat that as well or if it is the authority stat that.
#2. Blessings are directed towards the person(s) being blessed
#3.  Blessings come From the Father through Jesus Christ (in his name) - by the authority of the priesthood.
#4.  Speak positively in the first person directly to the person receiving the blessing as if you were G-d.  Say things like, “I bless you that you will see the truth”  or you may say something like, “Listen to the prophets and obey”.   But do not say things unless you are led by the spirit so to say.  If the spirit does not speak to you – then do not say anything.   Do not terms like “might” or “should”.  For example – “in order that you might find peace” – rather be more positive and say “in order that you will find peace.
#5. Never take credit for a blessing.  If someone says something like, “You gave a wonderful blessing”.  You should respond – it was not me – you should thank G-d.
 
These are my thoughts
 
The Traveler

It seems to me that if someone thought that way then they are simply lacking in faith. It is no different when someone doesn't pay their Tithing. They do not believe that the Lord has the power and ability to bless their lives in way that can make up for any temporal defect. If we are asked to do things in our careers that distance us from God, then we should begin a search for new employment. The Lord will not leave us, but will provide for those who have the faith to follow him. True faith results in action.

Sorry for not posting earlier – I have been disposed lately.   Over my life experience I have been taught the following:
#1. All blessings come from G-d.  Prayers come from people
#2. Blessings require someone authorized to speak for G-d.   Prayers can be offered by anybody.
#3.  Blessings require the faith of both the person speaking for G-d and those receiving the blessing.  Prayers only require the faith of the person praying and participating with the prayer.
 
When offering prayers:
#1.  Use humble speech – do not make demands or promise deals.  Rather have an attitude of asking and pleading.
#2.  Show respect – use language that recognizes the glory and majesty of G-d.  Do not use crude or rude language.
#3.  Prayers are addressed to G-d our Father – in the name of Jesus Christ
#4.  Speak of other with respect.
#5. When praying for yourself – speak openly of your concerns and need.  When praying for a group or others; speak for them and not yourself (this applies for prayers at church or at dinner – anytime you are praying with others).
 
When pronouncing a blessing:
#1.  Identify the authority for the blessing.  If you are a priesthood holder indicate our priesthood authority.  If you have faith in Christ stat that as well or if it is the authority stat that.
#2. Blessings are directed towards the person(s) being blessed
#3.  Blessings come From the Father through Jesus Christ (in his name) - by the authority of the priesthood.
#4.  Speak positively in the first person directly to the person receiving the blessing as if you were G-d.  Say things like, “I bless you that you will see the truth”  or you may say something like, “Listen to the prophets and obey”.   But do not say things unless you are led by the spirit so to say.  If the spirit does not speak to you – then do not say anything.   Do not terms like “might” or “should”.  For example – “in order that you might find peace” – rather be more positive and say “in order that you will find peace.
#5. Never take credit for a blessing.  If someone says something like, “You gave a wonderful blessing”.  You should respond – it was not me – you should thank G-d.
 
These are my thoughts
 
The Traveler

It is my impression that if it was important enough for an official declaration (one way or the other) that there would be several.  I use the term several because this is the economy of G-d -- to provide plural witness concerning things he is bringing about and plans to happen.
 
The Traveler

It is my impression that if it was important enough for an official declaration (one way or the other) that there would be several.  I use the term several because this is the economy of G-d -- to provide plural witness concerning things he is bringing about and plans to happen.
 
The Traveler

Far too many Christians, particularly from my Evangelical camp, try so hard to prove that salvation is not by works, that long after they are saved they continue to produce no works. In the Works. vs. Grace debate the correct answer is not one or the other, but YES. Grace-empowered good works "preach" Jesus powerfully.

Let me interrupt the Bronypen thread just to say... I got a Shaefer.  $16 from Office Depot in a fat silver barrel with granite ink.  Let's see how it measures up to my $20 Franklin Covey.  No pictures because my husband decided to wrap it up and give to my son's girlfriend who is getting baptized on Saturday.  He wrapped it up with the journal that I got from Deseret.  So, ok, it's not yet mine but I'm headed to the store to get another one.

If I were to introduce religious notions to someone that has no religious experience – I would begin or suggest beginning with the Book of Mormon.  Not to the exclusion of other scripture just as a place to start.  Scripture is a help in becoming converted to “The Gospel of Christ”.  The word Gospel means “good news” so many religious teachers think of coming to know G-d as the accumulation of data and information.  Perhaps this initially is a first step.  But it is not the means of acquiring knowledge.
There is an old saying that we should not judge others until we have walked a mile in their shoes.  To be honest there are some that walk in ways that are of no interest what-so-ever to me.  But for those that we wish to understand – we need walk the walk and not just talk the talk.  Isaiah warned that man becomes foreign to G-d by: (1) Transgressing the law. (2) changing the ordinances and (3) breaking the Covenant.  Jesus taught that if we “do” (meaning keep the law, embrace the ordinances and keep the covenants) we will know the doctrine – if it is of G-d or man.  I believe we learn to enjoy good things by doing good things.  It is worthless to learn of music if one does not want or intend for music to be in their life.
One last thought – scripture is not the goal of life – neither is going to church.  These are means and not a destination.  In addition, scripture is not a read and done thing but a life time method and means of constant learning.  You may want to write down some of your impressions and thought in the journal to reference later.
 
The Traveler

Works for me.   I have been known to say, in classes where the topic of rebellion is relevant, that if you feel the need to rebel, rebel against Satan.
Part of the Bible Dictionary entry for Grace:
Ether 4:11-12
Similarly, 1 Corinthians 2:11-16 (with JST corrections applied):
Only through the Spirit do we learn, receive, and understand the things of God (all good things are of God).  Only by the guidance of the Spirit are we persuaded to do good.  Only by the grace of Christ do we have power to do good.

So, I read somewhere that we are not punished for our sins, but by them. And somewhere else, that virtue is it's own reward. If so, and we make in this life heaven and hell for ourselves, I do not see why the next need be any different.
Best wishes, 2RM.

We know right from wrong. Right seems so hard, and so few appreciate. Wrong seems so natural and accepted. Yet, there is a hell to shun, and a God to embrace. If we approach God with humility he will empower us to live with confidence and faith. #submittogod #livebyfaith #livewithconfidence
To see my full-length article on this topic: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/doing-what-right-out-control-world-tommy-ellis/
Questions for the forum: LDS do not address hell much, so what do you make of the phrase, "There is a hell to shun?" Next, LDS emphasis the importance of good works more than most Protestant churches. How does the Holy Spirit help one accomplish all that fruitful labor?

For much of my career I traveled from home – spending many nights in motels.  Often after a long difficult day I would wind down by watching a little TV.  However, I became bothered quite often when I turned on the TV that it would come on displaying pornography.   I mentioned this very strange phenonium to a fellow priesthood holder and fellow traveler seeking advice.    My friend had experienced the same phenonium until he was inspired to pronounce a priesthood blessing on his room.
At first, I thought this to be a little hockey but decided to engage the concept.    I believe there are differences in pouncing a blessing and dedicating some physical thing or place to G-d but I am not sure I want to attempt to explain (cast) this pearl before the forum.  I also believe there is a difference between a prayer and a priesthood blessing.  I discovered this use of the priesthood, to pronounce a blessing, to be greatly useful in my travels.
I believe I have discovered that we can corrupt things and places by inviting unclean spirits and that such sprits will linger – so also will priesthood blessings.  But the two are exclusive of each other and one will cancel the effects of the other.  We cannot offer effective priesthood blessings with soiled hearts and unclean hands – we cannot serve two masters.  My experience that any attempt to serve two masters will always result in the success of the unclean spirits.  I believe this is called tempting G-d.  So, if we are to act officially in the priesthood we should make sure our hearts and hands are clean and pure.
 
The Traveler

My perception is somewhat the same,, which has caused me to question why that is.
I have come up with several plausible explanations, not the least of which is some loss of wonder and awe and humility through increased sophistication and presumed scholastic independence. Children tend to be acutely aware of how little they really know, and this orients them heavily towards information absorption even when seemingly distracted. Whereas, teens, and even many adults figure they are already sufficiently clued in and are thus less inclined to tune in--that is, until life exposes them to the vastness of their ignorance and they are caused to be humble and become, once again, even as a little child.
I figure there is also some "backing away" in divine parental intervention facilitating transitions from the extremes of dependency to independence and then hopefully back to the happy medium of interdependence. 
It is not uncommon for members to feel as though they have gone from spiritual feasts to famine, and where the heavens seem closed and their prayers are bouncing off the ceiling. I have, in the past, experienced this myself over a surprisingly long period of time 
I have discovered through this seeming abandonment, that there is good reason our Father has, in various ways, caused his children to leave home, so to speak, and journey to foreign and strange lands, and this, ironically, as a way of better preparing them to return home again. 
I say "seeming abandonment" because, when looking back with new eyes, I can finally see the firm hand of my Father subtly supporting me the whole way.
Thanks, -Wade Enlgund-

It may be a perception - but it seems that my childhood prayers were answered more directly than have my prayers been as an adult.
 
The Traveler

Dude, everybody prays when you're driving.
.
.
.
(Sorry, it was just too easy!)

It may be a perception - but it seems that my childhood prayers were answered more directly than have my prayers been as an adult.
 
The Traveler

Pop music is short for popular music.  Basically, it is the music prevalent in that era.  The style of pop music, therefore, changes as new generations popularize them.  Certain areas of the world also have their own styles of pop music.  Today, pop music is what you hear on your FM stations.  Kpop is short for Korean pop.  It's the style of music popular in South Korea.  Currently it resembles western music but more in line of Michael Jackson with a bit of grunge and a bit of rap mixed in by some artists.
Indie music is short for individual music.  It's like the opposite of popular music - it is more of a "cultish" thing.  You don't hear them on the FM stations.
 

I was once told that receiving inspiration from the Holy Ghost is really more along the line of 90% perspiration and 10% actual inspiration.   I am convinced that divine inspiration from G-d can only come by and through our most earnest efforts to connect with G-d – however demonic inspiration will follow even when we make specific effort to avoid it.
There is one more observation – that is - according to my experience - before we suffer grave things because of unrighteousness – that G-d will go through great means to warn us and call us to repentance.  But to follow a path of righteousness – requires a lot of effort.  I think the scriptures mention stuff like – “ALL” your heart, might, mind and strength.   Holding back, even a very little bit has never benefited me.
 
The Traveler

I don't know how they came about so I can't really argue one way or the other.  
I tend to believe that Adam and Eve came more from an evolutionary process and that They were the first two that God covenanted with making them his first children.

During the history of man – we can see technology develop and at times ebb or dwindle.  Mostly science and religion worked together to provide society with a knowledge base for accomplishment – both spiritually and physically.  Something very odd happened when Christianity mixed with Paganism and emerged as a major influence in Western society.  Some call it the middle ages, some call it the Dark Ages but LDS understand this time as “The Great Apostasy”.
A global effort to distort or destroy truths accumulated for centuries by man took hold and blossomed with the destruction of the library of Alexandra.  What followed would set back the enlightenment of mankind thousands of years.  Not just spiritually but even in the understanding of natural laws or the laws of physics.   During this time period of apostasy many of the great libraries of man were lost forever in time.  These included the libraries of Babylon, Zoroaster, China and even the records of the Nephits on the American contentment.   Both science and religion was replaced with unexplainable acts and methods of mystery and magic.  Man began to imagine that all divine and eternal “truth” was mysterious and unknowable – this also included the natural empirical laws of physics.  Efforts to explain any truth or wisdom to remove it from the realms of mystery and fantasy was pronounced by Traditional Christians as Satanic and pure evil.
G-d had not abandoned man and the age of ignorance began to melt away like the ice of winter with the coming of spring; with what has become known as the renaissance and the beginning of what would become known as an age of enlightenment and eventually the “Modern Age” of man.  But Traditional Christianity would not give up on notion of mysterious truth and would pronounce any scientific discovery as evil and a lie.
Science introduced notions of gravity, electromagnetic radiation and the small and large nuclear forces.  These ideas of empirical and precisely predictable forces gave man the power of understanding of our world and the universe and Traditional Christianity hated the new understanding and fought it every step of the way.  Perhaps the most profound blunder was the conviction of Galileo by Traditional Christians for publishing a book of how to predict ocean tides with science rather than with mysteries of religion.  
For 600 years the religious community has lost battle after battle as science has introduced so much usable knowledge that indeed man is now enjoying a golden age of knowledge even to the extent of being able to step off our tiny little planet into the vast regions of space.  And what has traditional religion produced?  To be honest – it appears to me that traditional religion produced little beyond hatred in the form of slavery, wars and disdain of our fellow man.  If it were not for LDS – I would not consider myself a Christian because as an institution; tradition Christianity has produced little or nothing of value.  I am not saying there have not been good individuals – just that as an institution there is nothing notable.  I would also explain that even the likes of the Natizies of Germany and the Communists of Stalin and Mao there were good individuals doing very impressive things.
Sadly, there still exist today individuals that claim the mysteries of traditional religious thinking over the empirical understanding of our universe through science.  They resist, as many religionists before them, any and all scientific truth.  Their claim is that the study of empirical evidence is evil and Satanic – nothing more than lies.  They will stand in the bright empirical light of noon day and declare it night.  It is hard for me to understand and had I not conversed personally with such enemies of truth – I would not believe it - that such possible in our day and age of restoration of truth.
 
The Traveler