Traveler

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  1. Like
    Traveler got a reaction from JohnsonJones in Is Israel on your bucket list?   
    I made a trip to Israel last year (about this time).  I thought it would be a semi-interesting experience.   I did not think the trip to be all that important (for anyone).  I found the experience much more than I ever dreamed.  Like @Jane_Doe – I thought the trip would be somewhat of a farce.  I was aware that Constantine sent his mother to Jerusalem to determine where important Christian events took place.  It was obvious that her trip was more political than rational.  Instead she picked the prominent Pagan shrines and declared them sacred Christian holy places.  
    We should also remember that in 73 AD. the Romans destroyed Jerusalem and plowed the ground so that one stone did not remain on top of another – all that was left was below ground foundations and previously berried structures.  Anciently it was very common to build new over the foundations of the old.  What is there today are things built after the Roman destruction.  The oldest stuff is Pagan – followed by some some early Christian modifications – along with stuff from various conquerors down to our present day.
    For me some of the highlights:
    #1. Seeing Israel for myself and realizing that all the pictures and other references I thought I understood were so very different from the “truth” of being there.
    #2. Immersing myself in the geology of the past.  For example, I was taught in my youth the expert art of using a sling (not the twirling around thing but the rapid set and release used in ancient combat).  I took the opportunity to enter the same valley in which David met against Goliath, picked some perfect stones from the same dry river bed where David picked his stones and slung 5 stones at a target about 75 yards away. 
    I also visited near the place where Jesus was baptized.  It could not be the same spot because the Jordan river is smaller than the Jordan river in Utah and wanders (changing it wandering path yearly) to the Dead Sea.  But realizing that where Jesus was baptized was in the same area-place where Joshua (The Hebrew name of Jesus) brought the “children” of Israel and where he (Joshua) took them into the Jordan River to be cleansed (baptized) before entering the “promised land”.
    So many times, I was touched by the spirit in ways and for things I did not at all expect.  Perhaps the most profound was Gethsemane (not the traditional place near the bottom of the mount of Olives but the place a Latter-day Prophet testified was near where Jesus prayed and took upon him the burden of our sins.
    #3.  Talking to Jews in Jerusalem – participating in a bar mitzvah at the western wall.
    #4.  Talking to Muslims that have lived in Palestine for many generations.
    #5. Learning why it is impossible to purchase a cheeseburger in Israel.
    #6. Eating traditional foods (both Islamic and Jewish)
    #7. Spending a Sabbath (Saturday) in Israel.
    #8. Meeting with the Latter-day Saints that live in Israel.
    #9 Ridding on a modern boat of ancient design on Galilee (which is not a sea but a lake about the size of Bear lake in Utah and Idaho.)  I also ate a fish caught in Galilee and prepared in the ancient style (likely like the fish that fed the 5,000).
    All in all – my trip was much more and many times over what I expected – Spiritually far more that I could have dreamed.  I would return again and plan to return – I am not so concerned about safety.   I believe I am much safer now than Jesus or the apostles ever were in Jerusalem.
     
    The Traveler
  2. Like
    Traveler got a reaction from person0 in Noah's Flood   
    If Moses was educated in Egypt he knew he earth was spherical.  In fact, there have been few civilizations that did not know the world was round - including stone age civilizations.  The concept of a flat earth appears to be medieval doctrine pooped out of the Dark Ages by foolish theologians in a great age of apostasy.   Any civilization with a solar calendar understood the earth was round.  Any civilization that was capable of predicting a solar eclipse – of necessity must understand the earth is round.  Also, that the moon revolves around the earth and the earth revolves around the sun.
    The true is that traditional Christianity really screwed up simple truths that mankind had known and established for thousands of years previously.
     
    The Traveler
  3. Like
    Traveler got a reaction from zil in Noah's Flood   
    If Moses was educated in Egypt he knew he earth was spherical.  In fact, there have been few civilizations that did not know the world was round - including stone age civilizations.  The concept of a flat earth appears to be medieval doctrine pooped out of the Dark Ages by foolish theologians in a great age of apostasy.   Any civilization with a solar calendar understood the earth was round.  Any civilization that was capable of predicting a solar eclipse – of necessity must understand the earth is round.  Also, that the moon revolves around the earth and the earth revolves around the sun.
    The true is that traditional Christianity really screwed up simple truths that mankind had known and established for thousands of years previously.
     
    The Traveler
  4. Thanks
    Traveler reacted to mgridle in Halleluhah and there was much rejoicing   
    A lot of wise comments there  and this is the money quote.  There are plenty of LGBTQetc. allies who are not predator who are really good people- but unfortunately they do not want to deal with the realities of what it actually means.  They shut off their brain, close their eyes and say "the bad stuff doesn't exist" and if you bring it up-you are the horrible, evil bad guy.
    You literally can't have an open, honest, frank discussion without being branded as a "homophobe" or some evil doer and the effect is to tell others to just shut up about all the bad stuff b/c we don't want to even acknowledge it.  Closeted homosexuals in BSA is one thing, open homosexuals in an organization that is supposed to teach men how to become boys is a huge, huge problem-but don't say that or you will be labeled an "evil" person.
    Take for example AIDS-it's a really simple disease to not get-it has extremely high rates in the homosexual community . . .gasp . . .but don't say it b/c if you bring out facts, you are a bad person. If homosexuals didn't practice homosexuality-AIDS would drop dramatically.
  5. Like
    Traveler got a reaction from Rhoades in Is Israel on your bucket list?   
    I made a trip to Israel last year (about this time).  I thought it would be a semi-interesting experience.   I did not think the trip to be all that important (for anyone).  I found the experience much more than I ever dreamed.  Like @Jane_Doe – I thought the trip would be somewhat of a farce.  I was aware that Constantine sent his mother to Jerusalem to determine where important Christian events took place.  It was obvious that her trip was more political than rational.  Instead she picked the prominent Pagan shrines and declared them sacred Christian holy places.  
    We should also remember that in 73 AD. the Romans destroyed Jerusalem and plowed the ground so that one stone did not remain on top of another – all that was left was below ground foundations and previously berried structures.  Anciently it was very common to build new over the foundations of the old.  What is there today are things built after the Roman destruction.  The oldest stuff is Pagan – followed by some some early Christian modifications – along with stuff from various conquerors down to our present day.
    For me some of the highlights:
    #1. Seeing Israel for myself and realizing that all the pictures and other references I thought I understood were so very different from the “truth” of being there.
    #2. Immersing myself in the geology of the past.  For example, I was taught in my youth the expert art of using a sling (not the twirling around thing but the rapid set and release used in ancient combat).  I took the opportunity to enter the same valley in which David met against Goliath, picked some perfect stones from the same dry river bed where David picked his stones and slung 5 stones at a target about 75 yards away. 
    I also visited near the place where Jesus was baptized.  It could not be the same spot because the Jordan river is smaller than the Jordan river in Utah and wanders (changing it wandering path yearly) to the Dead Sea.  But realizing that where Jesus was baptized was in the same area-place where Joshua (The Hebrew name of Jesus) brought the “children” of Israel and where he (Joshua) took them into the Jordan River to be cleansed (baptized) before entering the “promised land”.
    So many times, I was touched by the spirit in ways and for things I did not at all expect.  Perhaps the most profound was Gethsemane (not the traditional place near the bottom of the mount of Olives but the place a Latter-day Prophet testified was near where Jesus prayed and took upon him the burden of our sins.
    #3.  Talking to Jews in Jerusalem – participating in a bar mitzvah at the western wall.
    #4.  Talking to Muslims that have lived in Palestine for many generations.
    #5. Learning why it is impossible to purchase a cheeseburger in Israel.
    #6. Eating traditional foods (both Islamic and Jewish)
    #7. Spending a Sabbath (Saturday) in Israel.
    #8. Meeting with the Latter-day Saints that live in Israel.
    #9 Ridding on a modern boat of ancient design on Galilee (which is not a sea but a lake about the size of Bear lake in Utah and Idaho.)  I also ate a fish caught in Galilee and prepared in the ancient style (likely like the fish that fed the 5,000).
    All in all – my trip was much more and many times over what I expected – Spiritually far more that I could have dreamed.  I would return again and plan to return – I am not so concerned about safety.   I believe I am much safer now than Jesus or the apostles ever were in Jerusalem.
     
    The Traveler
  6. Like
    Traveler got a reaction from classylady in Is Israel on your bucket list?   
    I made a trip to Israel last year (about this time).  I thought it would be a semi-interesting experience.   I did not think the trip to be all that important (for anyone).  I found the experience much more than I ever dreamed.  Like @Jane_Doe – I thought the trip would be somewhat of a farce.  I was aware that Constantine sent his mother to Jerusalem to determine where important Christian events took place.  It was obvious that her trip was more political than rational.  Instead she picked the prominent Pagan shrines and declared them sacred Christian holy places.  
    We should also remember that in 73 AD. the Romans destroyed Jerusalem and plowed the ground so that one stone did not remain on top of another – all that was left was below ground foundations and previously berried structures.  Anciently it was very common to build new over the foundations of the old.  What is there today are things built after the Roman destruction.  The oldest stuff is Pagan – followed by some some early Christian modifications – along with stuff from various conquerors down to our present day.
    For me some of the highlights:
    #1. Seeing Israel for myself and realizing that all the pictures and other references I thought I understood were so very different from the “truth” of being there.
    #2. Immersing myself in the geology of the past.  For example, I was taught in my youth the expert art of using a sling (not the twirling around thing but the rapid set and release used in ancient combat).  I took the opportunity to enter the same valley in which David met against Goliath, picked some perfect stones from the same dry river bed where David picked his stones and slung 5 stones at a target about 75 yards away. 
    I also visited near the place where Jesus was baptized.  It could not be the same spot because the Jordan river is smaller than the Jordan river in Utah and wanders (changing it wandering path yearly) to the Dead Sea.  But realizing that where Jesus was baptized was in the same area-place where Joshua (The Hebrew name of Jesus) brought the “children” of Israel and where he (Joshua) took them into the Jordan River to be cleansed (baptized) before entering the “promised land”.
    So many times, I was touched by the spirit in ways and for things I did not at all expect.  Perhaps the most profound was Gethsemane (not the traditional place near the bottom of the mount of Olives but the place a Latter-day Prophet testified was near where Jesus prayed and took upon him the burden of our sins.
    #3.  Talking to Jews in Jerusalem – participating in a bar mitzvah at the western wall.
    #4.  Talking to Muslims that have lived in Palestine for many generations.
    #5. Learning why it is impossible to purchase a cheeseburger in Israel.
    #6. Eating traditional foods (both Islamic and Jewish)
    #7. Spending a Sabbath (Saturday) in Israel.
    #8. Meeting with the Latter-day Saints that live in Israel.
    #9 Ridding on a modern boat of ancient design on Galilee (which is not a sea but a lake about the size of Bear lake in Utah and Idaho.)  I also ate a fish caught in Galilee and prepared in the ancient style (likely like the fish that fed the 5,000).
    All in all – my trip was much more and many times over what I expected – Spiritually far more that I could have dreamed.  I would return again and plan to return – I am not so concerned about safety.   I believe I am much safer now than Jesus or the apostles ever were in Jerusalem.
     
    The Traveler
  7. Thanks
    Traveler got a reaction from prisonchaplain in Is Israel on your bucket list?   
    In Israel they are not allowed in the same room or even rooms next to each other if a door can be opened between them - Also you never want to be on a Sabbath elevator on the Sabbath.  and one more for @prisonchaplain- work that cannot be done on the Sabbath is defined as anything that relates to the 6 days of creation in Genesis.
     
    The Traveler
  8. Like
    Traveler got a reaction from Jamie123 in Is Israel on your bucket list?   
    I made a trip to Israel last year (about this time).  I thought it would be a semi-interesting experience.   I did not think the trip to be all that important (for anyone).  I found the experience much more than I ever dreamed.  Like @Jane_Doe – I thought the trip would be somewhat of a farce.  I was aware that Constantine sent his mother to Jerusalem to determine where important Christian events took place.  It was obvious that her trip was more political than rational.  Instead she picked the prominent Pagan shrines and declared them sacred Christian holy places.  
    We should also remember that in 73 AD. the Romans destroyed Jerusalem and plowed the ground so that one stone did not remain on top of another – all that was left was below ground foundations and previously berried structures.  Anciently it was very common to build new over the foundations of the old.  What is there today are things built after the Roman destruction.  The oldest stuff is Pagan – followed by some some early Christian modifications – along with stuff from various conquerors down to our present day.
    For me some of the highlights:
    #1. Seeing Israel for myself and realizing that all the pictures and other references I thought I understood were so very different from the “truth” of being there.
    #2. Immersing myself in the geology of the past.  For example, I was taught in my youth the expert art of using a sling (not the twirling around thing but the rapid set and release used in ancient combat).  I took the opportunity to enter the same valley in which David met against Goliath, picked some perfect stones from the same dry river bed where David picked his stones and slung 5 stones at a target about 75 yards away. 
    I also visited near the place where Jesus was baptized.  It could not be the same spot because the Jordan river is smaller than the Jordan river in Utah and wanders (changing it wandering path yearly) to the Dead Sea.  But realizing that where Jesus was baptized was in the same area-place where Joshua (The Hebrew name of Jesus) brought the “children” of Israel and where he (Joshua) took them into the Jordan River to be cleansed (baptized) before entering the “promised land”.
    So many times, I was touched by the spirit in ways and for things I did not at all expect.  Perhaps the most profound was Gethsemane (not the traditional place near the bottom of the mount of Olives but the place a Latter-day Prophet testified was near where Jesus prayed and took upon him the burden of our sins.
    #3.  Talking to Jews in Jerusalem – participating in a bar mitzvah at the western wall.
    #4.  Talking to Muslims that have lived in Palestine for many generations.
    #5. Learning why it is impossible to purchase a cheeseburger in Israel.
    #6. Eating traditional foods (both Islamic and Jewish)
    #7. Spending a Sabbath (Saturday) in Israel.
    #8. Meeting with the Latter-day Saints that live in Israel.
    #9 Ridding on a modern boat of ancient design on Galilee (which is not a sea but a lake about the size of Bear lake in Utah and Idaho.)  I also ate a fish caught in Galilee and prepared in the ancient style (likely like the fish that fed the 5,000).
    All in all – my trip was much more and many times over what I expected – Spiritually far more that I could have dreamed.  I would return again and plan to return – I am not so concerned about safety.   I believe I am much safer now than Jesus or the apostles ever were in Jerusalem.
     
    The Traveler
  9. Like
    Traveler got a reaction from Sunday21 in Is Israel on your bucket list?   
    I made a trip to Israel last year (about this time).  I thought it would be a semi-interesting experience.   I did not think the trip to be all that important (for anyone).  I found the experience much more than I ever dreamed.  Like @Jane_Doe – I thought the trip would be somewhat of a farce.  I was aware that Constantine sent his mother to Jerusalem to determine where important Christian events took place.  It was obvious that her trip was more political than rational.  Instead she picked the prominent Pagan shrines and declared them sacred Christian holy places.  
    We should also remember that in 73 AD. the Romans destroyed Jerusalem and plowed the ground so that one stone did not remain on top of another – all that was left was below ground foundations and previously berried structures.  Anciently it was very common to build new over the foundations of the old.  What is there today are things built after the Roman destruction.  The oldest stuff is Pagan – followed by some some early Christian modifications – along with stuff from various conquerors down to our present day.
    For me some of the highlights:
    #1. Seeing Israel for myself and realizing that all the pictures and other references I thought I understood were so very different from the “truth” of being there.
    #2. Immersing myself in the geology of the past.  For example, I was taught in my youth the expert art of using a sling (not the twirling around thing but the rapid set and release used in ancient combat).  I took the opportunity to enter the same valley in which David met against Goliath, picked some perfect stones from the same dry river bed where David picked his stones and slung 5 stones at a target about 75 yards away. 
    I also visited near the place where Jesus was baptized.  It could not be the same spot because the Jordan river is smaller than the Jordan river in Utah and wanders (changing it wandering path yearly) to the Dead Sea.  But realizing that where Jesus was baptized was in the same area-place where Joshua (The Hebrew name of Jesus) brought the “children” of Israel and where he (Joshua) took them into the Jordan River to be cleansed (baptized) before entering the “promised land”.
    So many times, I was touched by the spirit in ways and for things I did not at all expect.  Perhaps the most profound was Gethsemane (not the traditional place near the bottom of the mount of Olives but the place a Latter-day Prophet testified was near where Jesus prayed and took upon him the burden of our sins.
    #3.  Talking to Jews in Jerusalem – participating in a bar mitzvah at the western wall.
    #4.  Talking to Muslims that have lived in Palestine for many generations.
    #5. Learning why it is impossible to purchase a cheeseburger in Israel.
    #6. Eating traditional foods (both Islamic and Jewish)
    #7. Spending a Sabbath (Saturday) in Israel.
    #8. Meeting with the Latter-day Saints that live in Israel.
    #9 Ridding on a modern boat of ancient design on Galilee (which is not a sea but a lake about the size of Bear lake in Utah and Idaho.)  I also ate a fish caught in Galilee and prepared in the ancient style (likely like the fish that fed the 5,000).
    All in all – my trip was much more and many times over what I expected – Spiritually far more that I could have dreamed.  I would return again and plan to return – I am not so concerned about safety.   I believe I am much safer now than Jesus or the apostles ever were in Jerusalem.
     
    The Traveler
  10. Like
    Traveler reacted to prisonchaplain in Is Israel on your bucket list?   
    I get this, and do believe that some spiritual pilgrims become more enamored with the physical location than the power of what happened and who was involved. Still, the broad idea of walking the grounds where the Bible stories happened--whether exact or not--appeals. Some argue that two-weeks in Israel is equal to a year in Bible college. Having done the latter, I can see some validity the statement. To be able to visualize places as we read about them in scripture--I'd love to do it.
  11. Like
    Traveler reacted to Connie in The tokens already appear   
    Perhaps this is an instance where the 1828 dictionary would actually be helpful. For the definition of token it says, "A sign; something intended to represent or indicate another thing or an event." It also mentions some Biblical tokens such as Noah's rainbow and the blood on the doors of the Hebrews in Egypt. Maybe Phelps is referencing the signs of the second coming of the Savior and His millennial reign. The two end verses may indicate such.
  12. Like
    Traveler got a reaction from Crypto in Jesus Turns Water Into Wine   
    I believe that @Carborendum and done a profoundly important thing.  That is to study scripture for deep spiritual content.  Mostly, it would seem that those that study scripture do so for doctrine – I use to think this was the primary purpose of scripture but I have come to believe otherwise.
    Perhaps I am wrong but some posts seem to contain a undercurrent that G-d performs miracles to show off or as a fringe benefit for those that believe desired doctrine.  All of which play into the notion the good things only happen to good people and the reverse logic of the same - that if you are not good – bad things will happen to you.  And that what makes a person good is to believe the doctrine.  This kind of thinking sets the stage for a lot of arguing over “correct” doctrine.  A process that leads to “forever learning but never coming to an understanding of the truth”.
    The story of changing water to wine at the wedding has so many “levels” of deep spiritual meaning – I believe we could counsel with one another for weeks and months about how to apply understanding to covenants (like marriage) that we enter into with both our fellow man (earthy society) as well as G-d concerning the eternal plan of salvation.  But to be honest – I believe there is (among many) a spirit of contention or desire to reduce everything to doctrine and leave our covenants with G-d out of our exchanges with one another.
    So, I will ask a question concerning covenant – especially the covenant of marriage.  What do “YOU” do when you have an obligation by covenant to provide (in this case wine at a wedding – which is a covenant between a man and a wife and a community and G-d) and you run out?  It would seem to me that this is a topic (of many forms) of many a thread of this forum – now being asked again.
     
    The Traveler
  13. Like
    Traveler got a reaction from Vort in The tokens already appear   
    Not sure if this is along the same idea – but in the German language the word (forgot the German word – but as we LDS token) in essence the German translation has the same meaning as the license plate used to demonstrate official ownership and justify legal use of an automobile.
     
    The Traveler
  14. Thanks
    Traveler reacted to Connie in The tokens already appear   
    Perhaps it's a reference to the temple. Of note, this is one of the hymns we have in our current hymnal that Emma used in the first LDS hymnal which was printed while the Kirtland Temple was being built. It is one of William W. Phelps adaptations of a Christian hymn.
  15. Like
    Traveler reacted to Vort in In Theory, In Principle, In Doctrine, In The Law of the Gospel   
    If a man loses an online argument due to logical fallacies but does not recognize his fallacies or his loss, did he really lose?
  16. Like
    Traveler reacted to NeuroTypical in In Theory, In Principle, In Doctrine, In The Law of the Gospel   
    Good post.  I disagree with the final paragraph, but little else.   
    I have to admit, stuff like this is important to understand.  There's no such thing as a "false theory", just a theory proven false.  And you can have "incorrect principles" and "false doctrine".  
    I loved my college symbolic logic course.  Where the teacher made us start with some statements (like "all dogs have four legs" and "fred is a four legged cat"), and then we'd spend an entire hour working through a complex proof to arrive at a logically consistent conclusion.  And although the conclusion was logically consistent, and every single step of the way was sound and valid, the conclusion was false.  Because we started with stuff that wasn't true.   "Most dogs have four legs" would be true.  But you can find three-legged dogs.
     
    (And yes, "logically consistent", "sound", and "valid" all have specific meanings as well.  Misunderstanding these terms results in you losing arguments online without knowing it.)
  17. Okay
    Traveler reacted to Vort in Noah's Flood   
    Then please select two or three examples from that vast throng and reference them here.
    This much is clear. But it is not the Church's fault if they put out a clear, carefully worded document and a bunch of people with less-than-stellar reading comprehension skills immediately say that it means something it obviously doesn't mean.
    This is typical of journalism today -- broadcast falsehood as truth. Please don't depend on news articles from the Washington Post to inform you of the meaning of Church releases. Instead, read them yourself, carefully, and find out what they really say.
    That you are not alone in your misunderstanding proves only that a great many people are careless readers, including beat writers for the Washington Post, who along with the rest of the US east coast self-appointed intelligensia view Mormonism as a bizarre, cultic western religious phenomenon clung to primarily by some of those in flyover country.
  18. Like
    Traveler got a reaction from mrmarklin in Noah's Flood   
    I have more questions than I have answers concerning the epoch story of the flood.  I believe it is possible that the Biblical record of the flood is missing important details that have been filled in with speculation within the religious community.
    The earth could have been covered with water but we do not know how deep the cover was?  For example, if some places were only one molecule deep – technically it is “completely covered but it would be most difficult to find empirical evidence of such a shallow covering.
    I am amused that there are many in the religious community that believe the ark was the only means of preserving life but do not believe in evolution.  The ark is not of sufficient size to even hold the breeding stock of all the known species of worms– let alone all the necessary life forms for the species that currently exist on earth.  Many will proclaim that evolution has never produced offspring of a different species also claim to believe the ark preserved all species that exist today.  Such thinking is similar to planning a space exploration trip to the sun – but planning to go at night so that the space ship will not be burned up.
    There are also broad differences in genetic diversity in modern human populations that cannot be empirically explained within the 5 thousand years between the flood and our time.  Unless we realize major amounts of information are missing from either our Biblical scripture or our historical accounts (or both) – both written and empirically historical. 
    I can live with questions that do not have answers but I will not accept answers that cannot be questioned.
     
    The Traveler
  19. Like
    Traveler got a reaction from Lost Boy in Noah's Flood   
    I have more questions than I have answers concerning the epoch story of the flood.  I believe it is possible that the Biblical record of the flood is missing important details that have been filled in with speculation within the religious community.
    The earth could have been covered with water but we do not know how deep the cover was?  For example, if some places were only one molecule deep – technically it is “completely covered but it would be most difficult to find empirical evidence of such a shallow covering.
    I am amused that there are many in the religious community that believe the ark was the only means of preserving life but do not believe in evolution.  The ark is not of sufficient size to even hold the breeding stock of all the known species of worms– let alone all the necessary life forms for the species that currently exist on earth.  Many will proclaim that evolution has never produced offspring of a different species also claim to believe the ark preserved all species that exist today.  Such thinking is similar to planning a space exploration trip to the sun – but planning to go at night so that the space ship will not be burned up.
    There are also broad differences in genetic diversity in modern human populations that cannot be empirically explained within the 5 thousand years between the flood and our time.  Unless we realize major amounts of information are missing from either our Biblical scripture or our historical accounts (or both) – both written and empirically historical. 
    I can live with questions that do not have answers but I will not accept answers that cannot be questioned.
     
    The Traveler
  20. Like
    Traveler got a reaction from Still_Small_Voice in What gospel knowledge makes you joyful? What should?   
    I have found great joy, honor and even glory in keeping the commandments and learning to enjoy the discipline and rigors of repentance.  Keeping the commandments through great trials is more wonderful (lasting) than winning the super bowl and overcoming sin through repentance is greater than a gold medal.   But the greatest joy is after years of service then an occasional heart felt (perhaps even tearful) thank you from someone that remembered I made a difference in their life.
     
    The Traveler
  21. Thanks
    Traveler reacted to wenglund in Book of Mormon Secrets   
    It is fascinating that you would explain this because, in the past, I found many of the repetitive phrases in the Book of Mormon to be somewhat irritating and distracting, whereas now I consider them more as a metering ritualistic instructional style (not unlike the chiastic structure)--an ordinance if you will, or a quasi form of prayer, giving this book of scripture a whole new level of meaning and application. The wonderful secret you revealed above will make it all the more sacred to me.
    When I now hear the word "behold" (I am listening to an audio recording of the Book of Mormon) it prompts my mind to to take particular note and deeply consider and prepare myself to humbly receive revelation...as if by a voice speaking from the dust.
    Thanks, -Wade Enlgund-
  22. Like
    Traveler got a reaction from wenglund in Repentance after death   
    I see the two and basically the same.  The misuse of agency will result in the loss of agency.  In essence we are never free to act - there are always consiquences.
     
    The Traveler
  23. Like
    Traveler got a reaction from unixknight in Book of Mormon Secrets   
    If one studies both ancient Egypt and the Book of Mormon there are a great many seeming coincidences to be discovered.   I thought it would be interesting to point some of them out (there are lots of them).  We are told in the ancient scripture of the Book of Mormon that there are ties to ancient Egyptian culture – in particular, writing methods and styles. 
    One of the minor g-d of Egypt was called “Khepri”.  Most of us will recognize this deity in the expression of a dung beetle or scarab.  Khepri is a subordinate to Ra (major Sun G-d) and as a subordinate, is responsible for elements of creation – especially the creation and evolution of life.  There is one particular aspect of Khepri that is responsible for overseeing special changes or evolution in life.  Perhaps the most prominent symbol of this special evolution is the mesomorphs of a caterpillar into a butterfly.  It was believed in ancient Egypt, as well as many other ancient cultures that a significant benevolent evolution in a person or society is caused by divine interference or oversite.  In other words, a miracle of change.  Many scholars claim this ancient philosophy of Khepri in our lives is the root or forerunner to the idea of being spiritually reborn.   So Khepri is symbolic of the g-d that brings about benevolent change or rebirth.
    In our LDS theology we are encouraged in the idea that benevolent evolution and rebirth is to be a common and often occurrence.   There is a particular phrase in the Book of Mormon supports this ancient idea of Khepri bringing about changes for the better.  This phrase is often criticized for adding little or nothing to the narrative of the Book of Mormon.  Criticized because writing on golden plates was costly and unnecessary phrases would not make sense.  The phrase is, “And it came to pass”. 
    If one understands the possibility that this seeming meaningless phrase has root in ancient Egyptian thought – the phrase begins to have much greater meaning as well as indication of divine intervention and oversite.  So, the next time you read the Book of Mormon – pay attention to the phrase, “And it came to pass” as a key witness to something wonderful bringing about a change for the good and benefit.  It may help give a little better insight into a hidden spiritual secret that has significant revenants to your own life.
     
    The Traveler
  24. Like
    Traveler got a reaction from wenglund in Repentance after death   
    I believe so - Perhaps another term is Agency.
     
    The Traveler
  25. Like
    Traveler got a reaction from wenglund in Book of Mormon Secrets   
    If one studies both ancient Egypt and the Book of Mormon there are a great many seeming coincidences to be discovered.   I thought it would be interesting to point some of them out (there are lots of them).  We are told in the ancient scripture of the Book of Mormon that there are ties to ancient Egyptian culture – in particular, writing methods and styles. 
    One of the minor g-d of Egypt was called “Khepri”.  Most of us will recognize this deity in the expression of a dung beetle or scarab.  Khepri is a subordinate to Ra (major Sun G-d) and as a subordinate, is responsible for elements of creation – especially the creation and evolution of life.  There is one particular aspect of Khepri that is responsible for overseeing special changes or evolution in life.  Perhaps the most prominent symbol of this special evolution is the mesomorphs of a caterpillar into a butterfly.  It was believed in ancient Egypt, as well as many other ancient cultures that a significant benevolent evolution in a person or society is caused by divine interference or oversite.  In other words, a miracle of change.  Many scholars claim this ancient philosophy of Khepri in our lives is the root or forerunner to the idea of being spiritually reborn.   So Khepri is symbolic of the g-d that brings about benevolent change or rebirth.
    In our LDS theology we are encouraged in the idea that benevolent evolution and rebirth is to be a common and often occurrence.   There is a particular phrase in the Book of Mormon supports this ancient idea of Khepri bringing about changes for the better.  This phrase is often criticized for adding little or nothing to the narrative of the Book of Mormon.  Criticized because writing on golden plates was costly and unnecessary phrases would not make sense.  The phrase is, “And it came to pass”. 
    If one understands the possibility that this seeming meaningless phrase has root in ancient Egyptian thought – the phrase begins to have much greater meaning as well as indication of divine intervention and oversite.  So, the next time you read the Book of Mormon – pay attention to the phrase, “And it came to pass” as a key witness to something wonderful bringing about a change for the good and benefit.  It may help give a little better insight into a hidden spiritual secret that has significant revenants to your own life.
     
    The Traveler