Traveler

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  1. Like
    Traveler got a reaction from NeuroTypical in COVID update   
    I attempted to display the data from the official Utah website - https://coronavirus.utah.gov/case-counts/    If you go to the site and look at the regions of Utah it shows that currently the Southwest area (where Zion is) it is currently (yesterday) at about 9 new cases per 100,000.  Salt Lake county is currently at about 24 new cases per 100,000 and Utah county is at about 49 new per 100,000.   Utah county yesterday had over 5 times the infections per 100,000 residents - Salt Lake county was only 2 and 2/3 times as many infections per 100,000 as southwest Utah.
    The death rate in Southwest Utah ought to be higher because that is primarily retirement communities - which means old people that are highly susceptible to COVID.  The young dumb population should lower the death rate considerably.  They are not likely to die from infection and if they keep it up we should have heard immunity in about 100 days - before the vaccine is available to all segments of the population.
     
    The Traveler
  2. Thanks
    Traveler reacted to scottyg in How would you answer this?   
    A very good point. I have never thought of that before.
  3. Like
    Traveler reacted to JohnsonJones in Who Was that Rich Man?   
    Unrelated but similar.  I used to read a LOT of Yahoo news articles, specifically because they had comments which allowed you to get a bigger picture of what people were thinking rather than the biased articles written by Yahoo.
    Apparently Yahoo didn't like dissent.  They have stopped comments in their articles.
    I no longer read Yahoo as much.
  4. Like
    Traveler got a reaction from scottyg in How would you answer this?   
    The short answer is because we have members in socialist countries and we do not want them tried for treason.
     
    The Traveler 
  5. Like
    Traveler got a reaction from Scott in Who Was that Rich Man?   
    Unless there is something that he disagrees with - then he is not so nice and generous.   Anyone can be nice with those that agree with them (even a Democrat does that!!!) - a nice person is nice when being nice is not expected.  I do not expect the media to be nice but I do expect the media to be accurate.  That is their one and only job - to be accurate - even if they have opinions in the media; it is somewhat acceptable only, if and when they are accurate.  I believe one element of accurate in the media is understanding all possible sides and being able to argue for what you disagree about at least as well as your opposition.  But attempting to silence one's opposition - is never nice - nor is it acceptable in a free society.  
     
    The Traveler 
  6. Like
    Traveler got a reaction from Just_A_Guy in Could be hard year for fires in California   
    I thought I would resurrect this thread in light of what has happened over the last few weeks.  Perhaps Trump is responsible???
     
    The Traveler
  7. Like
    Traveler got a reaction from Scott in Who Was that Rich Man?   
    Unless there is something that he disagrees with - then he is not so nice and generous.   Anyone can be nice with those that agree with them (even a Democrat does that!!!) - a nice person is nice when being nice is not expected.  I do not expect the media to be nice but I do expect the media to be accurate.  That is their one and only job - to be accurate - even if they have opinions in the media; it is somewhat acceptable only, if and when they are accurate.  I believe one element of accurate in the media is understanding all possible sides and being able to argue for what you disagree about at least as well as your opposition.  But attempting to silence one's opposition - is never nice - nor is it acceptable in a free society.  
     
    The Traveler 
  8. Like
    Traveler got a reaction from Scott in Who Was that Rich Man?   
    Unless there is something that he disagrees with - then he is not so nice and generous.   Anyone can be nice with those that agree with them (even a Democrat does that!!!) - a nice person is nice when being nice is not expected.  I do not expect the media to be nice but I do expect the media to be accurate.  That is their one and only job - to be accurate - even if they have opinions in the media; it is somewhat acceptable only, if and when they are accurate.  I believe one element of accurate in the media is understanding all possible sides and being able to argue for what you disagree about at least as well as your opposition.  But attempting to silence one's opposition - is never nice - nor is it acceptable in a free society.  
     
    The Traveler 
  9. Like
    Traveler got a reaction from Just_A_Guy in Could be hard year for fires in California   
    I thought I would resurrect this thread in light of what has happened over the last few weeks.  Perhaps Trump is responsible???
     
    The Traveler
  10. Like
    Traveler got a reaction from NeuroTypical in COVID update   
    Mrs. Traveler and I spent a few days on a road trip through national and state parks of southern Utah.  It was great!!!!  When we visited Zion National Park it was crowded big time.  The wife recently had foot surgery and was limited in her hiking abilities so we did not do any extreme hiking but the paths in Zion's park were full of people - very few wore a mask or socially distanced.   And yet new cases of COVID in southern Utah are basically none.  I talked with one young lady that was recently in the Philippines and Hawaii - both struggling with COVID.  I am thinking that the hot dry air of southern Utah outdoors prohibits the spread.  
    Utah is currently having a problem with COVID.  But mostly in Salt Lake and Utah counties.  The students of BYU and UVU appear to be a big problem for the state - along with an organization called "Young/Dumb".
     
    The Traveler
  11. Like
    Traveler got a reaction from scottyg in How would you answer this?   
    The short answer is because we have members in socialist countries and we do not want them tried for treason.
     
    The Traveler 
  12. Love
    Traveler reacted to Carborendum in Freedom, Family, and The Gospel   
    Notice the part that you left out.
    Context matters.  Something to think about.
    We're all children.  But we are only heirs if we suffer with him.  All the links to the Church website which you provided attest to that.
  13. Like
    Traveler got a reaction from MrShorty in Samuel the Lamanite and rocks above the Earth   
    Although I agree with you thinking - I am of the mind that we will not really understand until we can have a talk with one of our ancient brethren of that lost civilization.    Maybe one our our Lamanite survivors may have some insight.
    I thought I might add that a road side sign that says "Watch for falling rocks" may be similar?????
     
    The Traveler
  14. Haha
    Traveler reacted to Carborendum in Eternity, infinity, and limits   
    Well, it is good to see that some things never change. 
    No comment.
  15. Like
    Traveler reacted to Scott in Samuel the Lamanite and rocks above the Earth   
    I have a similar thought to dprh.  
    Earth is this case means soil or land (i.e. in the phrase "till the earth")  rather than the planet.
    Rocks above the earth are mountains, cliffs, etc.
  16. Thanks
    Traveler reacted to MrShorty in Samuel the Lamanite and rocks above the Earth   
    I guess I'm a little behind in Come Follow Me, but I was recently reading the account of Samuel the Lamanite. In describing the events that would occur around the death of Christ, he talks about the rocks upon the face of the Earth, both above and beneath (see Helaman 14:21 and 22). The amateur geologist in me initially was thinking in geologic terms, but the idea of rocks above the earth did not make sense. I could understand rocks beneath and rocks on the face of the Earth, but those above?
    But, one does not need to read the text as if it is about geology. Maybe it is just a "fancy" way of talking about all of the rocks (something about the number 3, so that we talk about 3 types of rocks instead of 2)? Or is there another ancient meaning or context for talking about rocks above the Earth? Could "earth" be used here more to talk about "our level" and "rocks above" could refer to high mountains (though high mountains are usually associated with geologically active regions which doesn't match with the rocks beneath being a solid mass, but there I go again, talking about it as if it is geology and not something else)?
    It's a small thing that really doesn't change Samuel's overall message, but does anyone have any insights on the concept of "rocks above the earth"?
  17. Love
    Traveler reacted to Scott in Eternity, infinity, and limits   
    This is interesting.  Personally I don't think that any mortal could obtain perfection even with an unlimited lifespan.

    I have the same thought.  I have heard in Seminary/Institute that God the Father presides over the Celestial, Christ presides over the Terrestrial, and that the Holy Ghost presides over the Telestial.
    To me that means that the inhabitants of each place will still be learning/progressing.  For example, what is the Holy Ghost' purpose of presiding over the Telestial unless there is teaching?  There must be some type of progression.
  18. Like
    Traveler reacted to laronius in Eternity, infinity, and limits   
    I don't know that I have any answers but I do have some thoughts I think are relevant. First off, I don't think God would ever deny one of His children the chance to progress if they are willing to whether it be in this life or a billion years from now. But the question is will they want to (speaking of those in the lower kingdoms). We existed for however many eons of time before coming to this earth and I think our trajectory was already pretty well defined by then. Though perhaps this life could act as a "scared straight" experience for some. But when we consider that our ultimate destination is truly of our own choosing and that choosing took place over who knows how long of time it makes me wonder what could happen in the eternities that would all of a sudden make someone say "okay, now I'm willing to live a higher law." There is so much that hasn't been revealed like what will the inhabitants of the lower kingdoms be doing with their time? I don't know. We do know they will be happy with their allotment and perhaps that will breed contentment. But if progress between kingdoms was a real thing it would be a truth that would work against God's purposes in this life. 
  19. Thanks
    Traveler reacted to Carborendum in Eternity, infinity, and limits   
    Once upon a time I mused about the rate of improvement I was making in overcoming my weaknesses and faults.  Yes, I actually spend some time pondering "what lack I yet?" and how much further I have to go, what I need to repent of.
    I had made a meaningless calculation that I could possibly achieve perfection in another 400 years.  But that was really off because of a simple mathematical thing known as "asymptotes."  I believe our improvement in this life is largely asymptotic.  That is why it is so difficult to be perfect.  Yes, the scriptures speak of "perfect men" who have been purified in Christ.  But I'm still wondering what that means.
    It seems almost paradoxical that as our improvement in this life is asymptotic, the progression in eternity is not limited in any way.  And I'm beginning to wonder if that is so in the lower kingdoms as well. 
    Pondering the three kingdoms, I wondered: Are the Telestial and Terrestrial really "limited"?  The "progression between kingdoms" crowd speak of the lower kingdoms trailing behind the engine of the celestial. They get to the same point, just a bit later.  I rejected that notion.  But what is the alternative?  Either there is a cap on where the other kingdoms go, or...
    Bruce R. McConkie says that "they don't even go in the same direction."  Still not sure what that means.  But when thinking of it from a mathematical perspective, I considered: What if
    Telestial = infinity. Terrestrial = infinity^2. Celestial (lower levels) = infinity^3. Celestial (highest degree) = infinity^infinity. Then even the Telestial is not "damned" because there is still no cap.
    I'm fairly certain that most people won't see the difference because they don't understand the nature of the exponential infinities that I just posited.  Beyond that, there are higher levels of infinity (beyond infinity^infinity) that I was recently introduced to (a few years back) that I'm still having trouble wrapping my head around.  But regardless of the nature of these infinities, it is interesting that such concepts are talked about in math, but don't quite make it into gospel discussions.  I wonder if any of this could clarify some doctrinal questions.
  20. Like
    Traveler got a reaction from Scott in Engine of Violence   
    It is very difficult for me to imagine that the Gadiantons of our day would leave such a lucrative business on the table - and that judges and politicians would be their primary targets of influence.  I see no other logic that can explain why an elected official would want open borders, abolish ICE, defund the police and deprive law abiding citizens of their 2nd amendment rights.   These are all threats to the distribution of illegal drugs and their use.  I have put this out on the forum to see if anyone has another possible explanation.  Dare I add opposition to the divine concept of the nuclear family as the basis of community and country.  Dr Peter Duesberg exposed that the LGBTQ community is heavy into the use of drugs and was targeted because of it.
    It is also my belief that the Gadiantons of our day are deeply involved in each or our primary political parties - but it does also seem that one of our political parties has fallen under the complete control - so much that any opposition is not allowed and is a target that must be silenced by whatever means necessary but currently - mostly through fear and intimidation.  But I also think @Scott is spot on in understanding that this element destroying our liberties cannot be addressed without divine assistance.
     
    The Traveler
  21. Like
    Traveler got a reaction from Scott in Engine of Violence   
    It is very difficult for me to imagine that the Gadiantons of our day would leave such a lucrative business on the table - and that judges and politicians would be their primary targets of influence.  I see no other logic that can explain why an elected official would want open borders, abolish ICE, defund the police and deprive law abiding citizens of their 2nd amendment rights.   These are all threats to the distribution of illegal drugs and their use.  I have put this out on the forum to see if anyone has another possible explanation.  Dare I add opposition to the divine concept of the nuclear family as the basis of community and country.  Dr Peter Duesberg exposed that the LGBTQ community is heavy into the use of drugs and was targeted because of it.
    It is also my belief that the Gadiantons of our day are deeply involved in each or our primary political parties - but it does also seem that one of our political parties has fallen under the complete control - so much that any opposition is not allowed and is a target that must be silenced by whatever means necessary but currently - mostly through fear and intimidation.  But I also think @Scott is spot on in understanding that this element destroying our liberties cannot be addressed without divine assistance.
     
    The Traveler
  22. Like
    Traveler got a reaction from Jonah in Freedom, Family, and The Gospel   
    If our metrics are between birth and death it is hard (impossible) to honestly mitigate that there is freedom, liberty, justice and agency.  It is obvious that there is a great difference in possible choices between someone born of a college educated middle class family in the USA as opposed to a indigenous family deep in the Amazon rain forest with no connections to the "outside" world.   One cannot choose any option that is not available to them.  Few religious paradigms deal with this discrepancy other that to say G-d will fix it.  Which is a horrible paradigm for any religion that purports to teach of G-d and his marvelous works to humanity.  I find your post spot on and central to understanding G-d, his creations, the plan of Salvation, heaven verses hell and good verses evil - in short the grand essence of everything.
    Expanding Gospel Points:
      . There is no justice in mortality without a pre-existence.  
      . There is no justice if there is not a G-d with the knowledge and power to right all wrongs.  This is the essence of a "Redeemer".   Not just to free us from our sins but also the transgressions against us.
      . Eternal Life requires not only family sealing but the covenant of marriage between a man and a woman.  A religion that does not prepare all men and all women for the covenant of marriage is "Anti-Christ".  I would add or include "Anti G-d".
     
    @Jonah asks a good question.  As members of the Church of Jesus Christ we understand that a covenant with G-d is necessary.  The ancient meaning of "Righteous" is not someone of noble deeds but someone that has a covenant with G-d.  The reference in Mark 3 is a reference to righteousness and covenant (that includes marriage).   The title "The Children of G-d" denotes covenant.  We are to understand that we become family - the very family of G-d through covenant.  Therefore, the Saints that covenant with G-d are our family - which is the family of Christ and the family of G-d the Father.  The greatest example of eternal life, heaven or the nature of G-d is made known and possible through an eternal family covenant.
    The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the only religious organization I have encountered that claims the authority and ordinance of eternal family covenant.
     
    The Traveler
  23. Like
    Traveler reacted to estradling75 in Alma 30:7-11   
    In any reasonably approximate democratic government the Laws will and should reflect the collective morality of the people.  If we allow corrupt laws then that says something about our collective morality.  This is why the Book of Mormon speak harshly about corrupt laws and government.  Thus I should vote for my morality to become law, and so should everyone else.  The places where the most agree become Laws and the rest do not.
    As for what parts of my morality should I try to make into Law... well that is were the Golden Rule comes in.  I am a flawed and imperfect person, and I live my morality imperfectly.  So I have to ask myself if I violated my own standards what would I think would be fair and correct course of action for society to take against me?  And that gives me the answer of what the Law should be. 
  24. Like
    Traveler reacted to Anddenex in Alma 30:7-11   
    If we live in a nation where many are on the LGBTQ spectrum and differing views on sexual morality, would it be against the laws of G*d to vote in laws that prevent others from living according to their belief?
    The simple, but not so simple, answer would be no. No, it would not go against the laws of God to vote in laws that prevent others from living according to their belief. The three kingdoms of Glory give evidence to this. There are laws in each kingdom. A person abides by the law of the kingdom, or they don't live there.
    If a person believes a law restricts them from living according to their beliefs these individuals have the freedom to 1) seek to change the law, 2) choose to abide by the law and adhere to it (repentance so to speak), or 3) move to a different society that would allow them to live according to their "chosen" morals whether these morals are right or wrong.
    Would it be against the laws of G*d to vote for laws that allow those of opposing belief to break commandments?
    Yes. If God says murder is against his law, then we shouldn't vote for any law that allows "murder" or anything like unto it. Zion will be a place where the morality of God will be adhered to. Zion will have God's laws and morality. In order to achieve Zion, there will be many laws that will oppose a person's beliefs (especially those with evil hearts, wicked), and which will not allow them to live such beliefs without consequence/punishment for breaking the law.
    There is a subtle irony to this scripture. There is no law against a human's belief, but there are laws (eternal laws) that if they live according to their beliefs (which are against God's laws), and are "ripe" in iniquity there is punishment for belief that lead to actions. Sodom and Gomorrah are the perfect example. The Nephite civilization before Christ came is another perfect example. So to speak, believe as you may, but in the end and to some degree now your belief could lead to an earthly destruction/punishment. The world is already heading that way. Have your belief, but watch your actions.
    Rarely do people believe something that they don't act on.
    I was debating with a friend of mine that bill in CA that “legalized pedophilia”. Now it doesn’t do that, far from it actually. But the reality of the bill is still not moral. It allows consensual sex between a 14-17 year old with someone that is less than 10 Years older than them.
    I would disagree with the first and second paragraph. If a male twenty-three year-old sleeps with a 14 year-old (less than 10 years) it is statutory rape. Statutory rape (depending on age gap) is pedophilia. So, if a law is passed that allows a 23 year-old to consensually have sex with a minor (14) without punishment the law has successfully legalized pedophilia. This is no different with heterosexuals. If a 23 year-old woman (let's say a teacher) has sex with her male student consensually who is 14, she will be charged and put on the sex offenders list. This is pedophilia. It appears pedophile is loosely defined also. Some dictionaries simply refer to it as "prepubescent" children, and yet other articles refer to pedophilia even with 13 year-olds.
    In that light, one could then say this law is legalizing statutory rape of a minor. As as 22 year-old who has sex with a 14 is statutory rape. In our modern age, our modern time, and the knowledge we have with human development this is an immoral law and it is wrong.
  25. Like
    Traveler reacted to laronius in Alma 30:7-11   
    I have not as of yet come to a firm conclusion in my beliefs of how much government has a right to regulate on issues such as this. It's the dilemma caused by a form of government that requires a moral people to function properly but who's people are quickly losing said morals. 
    Concerning the gay marriage issue (which I think is relevant) Pres Hinckley said:
    “Some portray legalization of so-called same-sex marriage as a civil right. This is not a matter of civil rights; it is a matter of morality. Others question our constitutional right as a church to raise our voice on an issue that is of critical importance to the future of the family. We believe that defending this sacred institution by working to preserve traditional marriage lies clearly within our religious and constitutional prerogatives. Indeed, we are compelled by our doctrine to speak out."