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  1. Like
    Traveler got a reaction from Just_A_Guy in Soliciting Opinions on Healthy Relationships Quote   
    @slamjet I do not believe you can change anything or anyone but yourself.  I also believe if you want a different outcome - you must change something.  Your location is a bit confusing to me but since you made it what it is - I also believe one definition of insanity or stupidity is to keep doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result.
    I do not remember where the quote came from (maybe Henry Ford) ---- If you spill your emotions - do not expect someone else to clean them up.
    I also am a great believer in logic.  I believe emotions are a poor excuse for anything.  Whenever someone says they have a feeling or think they must follow their heart - I believe a disaster is enviable.  Emotions are wonderful things but they should be governed and controlled - with logic.
    The Traveler
  2. Like
    Traveler reacted to prisonchaplain in Soliciting Opinions on Healthy Relationships Quote   
    Context is everything! Generically, sure I own my feelings and can usually choose to be offended, upset or not. However, "I feel scared when you raise your voice and take a swing at me,"  deserves a little more support than, "... create the outcome you want instead of becoming resentful." Having said all that, I imagine that this print resource is meant to be generic, and that the group facilitator would be relied on to interpret context and adjust counsel.
  3. Like
    Traveler reacted to Jane_Doe in Soliciting Opinions on Healthy Relationships Quote   
    Speaking with a VERY wide brush, I do agree with the sentiment being expressed, even though I don't think it's worded the best.
    Communication is the first step towards change, whether that's changing with another party or just within yourself.  It doesn't automatically mean that somebody else will or has to change things.  You do still have an obligation to your own behavior, which at points may involve you taking action to change a situation.    Grudge-holding / resentment are generally poisonous emotions.  Anger or need to move though -- those emotions do have a practical application.  Just also need to let them go at points too.  
    The practical application of this varies a lot on what's going on in each situation. 
  4. Like
    Traveler reacted to Fether in Soliciting Opinions on Healthy Relationships Quote   
    The core of the message seems to be “You are responsible for your feelings and desires.” Which I agree with 100%. When I’m mad, it is my fault. When I desire to eat too much ice cream... also my fault.
  5. Like
    Traveler got a reaction from JohnsonJones in “Even if the church was not true, I would still be a member”   
    To be honest I find a great deal of good and interest in every church I have encountered.  Likewise I have never found any person worthy of rejection - including a Satan worshiper I once encountered.  I have found that if I look hard enough for good or evil - I will find it wherever I look.  Unlike @prisonchaplain I believe doctrine to be way overrated.  I am much more concerned with covenants, discipline and "reality" than doctrine - I think the religious world is too divided over doctrine.
    If it was not that I have received direct revelation concerning the True and Living G-d and His Church and Kingdom here on earth (and that these are the Last-days prior to the return of the Messiah)  - I would not consider myself religious concerning aligning myself to any current organization - especially Christianity.  I would mostly study Buddhism because it is the only religion that was mostly spread with peace rather than violence and war.  When Buddhism was introduced into China - China was at war with itself and Buddhism brought peace.  Traditional Christianity is much the opposite; not only has Traditional Christianity gone to war against itself over doctrine - it has justified starting wars and bloodshed, all in the name of a loving, compassionate, merciful and benevolent G-d against any other religion or tradition it has encountered.  Ironically this nation was founded by Christians trying to escape the tyranny of those Christians in power in their home lands - just as the initial disciples of Christ sought for relief from the Jewish society from which they had the same doctrine and scripture foundation.
    The Traveler
  6. Like
    Traveler reacted to Carborendum in Cunning of the devil   
    Yup.  Notice how "out of context" he had to make it to even have the semblance of a reasonable question. 
    It is preceded by a reference to "After Jesus was resurrected..."  Then, the very next lines after his quoted section refers to how the Church developed in Ancient Rome. The context alone should tell the reader that the section was discussing the Early Church in the days of Peter & Paul.  If he had honestly come across that in honest study, he would have realized that.
    More signs that he's getting these cherry-picked out-of-context statements from an anti-Mormon source specifically designed to twist meaning into something they clearly were not intended to be - just to sow confusion where there was none.
    But he keeps putting trust in it instead of realizing that they are not dependable sources.  That's what happens when you start with a pre-conceived notion.
  7. Thanks
    Traveler reacted to Carborendum in Cunning of the devil   
    Two things:
    FIRST:  D&C 10 was referring to the retranslation of the record of Nephi after the "lost manuscript" was stolen.  So, specifically, that verse was not talking about the Church or even the organization.  The Church hadn't been organized -- and wouldn't be for another year after that.
    SECOND: If you have to insist on making this about the establishment of the Church (which it isn't):  The Lord had already known that the early Church as He established it would be destroyed.  An entire world and society so evil that they would crucify the only perfect being to walk the earth was not a world where the Lord's Church was going to survive in its fulness.
    So, he set things up to be restored at a time when the world would be more prepared to receive the fulness of the Gospel.  Even then, it almost got snuffed out.  But with all the enemies and all the wholesale slaughter they wrought upon the Latter-day Saints, and even the government of the United States out to kill them, the Church survived.  That, to me, is a testament that this really is a work that was protected by the Hand of the Lord.
  8. Thanks
    Traveler reacted to estradling75 in “Even if the church was not true, I would still be a member”   
    By their fruits ye shall know them.  The question supposes that the Fruits would remain Good even if the Tree was Corrupt.
    As a thought experiment the idea of staying with the Good Fruit makes all the sense in the world...  But in any practical event the Fruit can't exist without Truth at its foundation.
    Even when we go outside our Faith... the Good Fruit others bring forth is based on the truth that they have.
    Now one could make the case that we do not have all the truth (yet)... This seems self evident.  That does not make what we have false or a lie, it just makes it incomplete.  Which is a huge difference
  9. Okay
    Traveler reacted to prisonchaplain in “Even if the church was not true, I would still be a member”   
    I may be more open to the question because, like most Protestants, I know that we already left one church because, though it taught much that was true and gave us our scriptures, I ultimately did not believe the tradition of it was as inspired as scripture itself. So, if I were to find that the Assemblies of God was seriously wrong on a doctrine, I could leave it for another church, without feeling I had seriously failed my Savior. Similarly, if I were in a community that had no Assemblies of God church, I could attend a different church and still grow in the Lord.
    Perhaps the largest group-example of this is the Worldwide Church of God (Herbert W. Armstrong). When Armstrong died the main branch of the church abandoned his distinctive doctrines and became a traditional evangelical movement. Ironically, one or two of the small splinter groups kept his teachings.
  10. Like
    Traveler got a reaction from askandanswer in “God’s” Plan   
    I would approach this question from a strictly engineering standpoint from which I have some experience.  If we look at the engineering challenge of automating a manufacturing process - I believe it is quite similar to what has happened in the eternities in developing the plan of salvation.   We begin by gathering together a council of "experts" and determining what is referred to as "The Requirements Document".  The Requirements Document breaks down what is needed and required to accomplish the most efficient and desired results.   This may sound quite simple but it is the most important and critical step in the process.  If we are manufacturing cars - this document will define how many cars per hour (top, mean and minimal production) as well as long term outputs (yearly).  The document will also define the production quantities, qualities and tolerances as well as an initial budget to insure financial feasibility, profitability and sustainability.  
    Once the requirements are determined we move toward the design planning stage.  The design document is a step by step process to accomplish the requirements.  This is a most interesting process.  Many engineers as well as customizers start to add or leave out "things" that will not accomplish the specified requirements (in essence - something else).  Often such design changes are based in ego and power of an individual or individuals.   BTW - this will always lead to the failure of the project (at one level or another).   And so another document is created called the Design document.  Usually this document is more verbose than the requirements document.  Sadly or strangely this document is considered to be more important than the requirements document - but in all the planning and design - it is the least critical.
    The final plan document is what is called the Testing Document or Test Scripts.  This document looks primarily at the requirement document and itemizes the testing necessary to insure that all the requirements are preciously and exactly  met.  This document us usually comprised of volumes.  It gives exact step by step action and step by step expected results.  Each step is signed off and dated by a specific tester that also logs exact items, times individuals and versions of hardware and software  utilized in the test and finely the results - including pass or fail to meet the requirements.  If there is an non-pass or failure; a determination is made for corrections or if changes will be addressed and made.
    If we think on this we can find "types and shadows" of thing revealed concerning the counsels of the pre-existence where the foundations of our salvation and eternal exaltation were laid.  For example we can understand that some took responsibilities and exercised faith in establishing necessary principles while other went along and how Lucifer would rebel to take advantages for himself at the expense of others.  We can also see how our mortal experience was planned out in great detail to insure we are "tested in all things" specific to our individual needs to prepare us for that which we intended for ourselves and those with which we would covenant for our intended  eternity.
    The Traveler
  11. Like
    Traveler reacted to CommanderSouth in “God’s” Plan   
    Something I’ve been pondering a lot lately Is the question of is all of “this” God’s plan?  We talk about the plan of salvation, and describe it as God’s.  But when we look at everything in light of the king Follet sermon, we realize that it really isn’t “God’s” plan at all, just what has to be done. 
    This of course simply pushes the question one level up. Who created this “plan” and why. I have struggled with this as long as I can remember. The answer the church provides is more palatable than “God did It” but it still leaves so many questions. 
  12. Haha
    Traveler got a reaction from Carborendum in Okay...which one of you Utahns put this up??   
    No one will ever be able to prove that I did it.
    The Traveler
  13. Haha
    Traveler got a reaction from Carborendum in Okay...which one of you Utahns put this up??   
    No one will ever be able to prove that I did it.
    The Traveler
  14. Like
    Traveler got a reaction from Carborendum in Isaiah Translation   
    I was in the military during the Vietnam era - I have seen entire nations turn against each other as well as themselves claiming the spiritual high ground from their interpretation of ancient texts.  Currently we are seeing entire political parties turning against each other and claiming that sacred scripture justifies their actions.  For thousands of years - there have been wars and massacres justified by expert interpretation of scriptures.  And those with variant opinions (opposing the experts) of scripture interpretation; denounced as heretics, brutally punished by those "more" expert in scripture.  We would not have an Old Testament today if it had not been for the Pharisees - and yet they and their expert interpretation of scripture was the motivation behind the movement to crucify Christ.   
    The interpretation of scripture cannot and will not save anyone from their sins.  And no one will be saved without the Gift of the Holy Ghost.
    The Traveler 
  15. Like
    Traveler got a reaction from JohnsonJones in Life, Death and an Isotropic Universe:   
    Though your comments do apply to our understanding of science - I am of the mind that our understanding of divine principles (things spiritual) is far more lacking in our mortal state than things empirical (physical). 
    The Traveler
  16. Haha
    Traveler got a reaction from Carborendum in Okay...which one of you Utahns put this up??   
    No one will ever be able to prove that I did it.
    The Traveler
  17. Okay
    Traveler reacted to JohnsonJones in Okay...which one of you Utahns put this up??   
    Apparently it disappeared over the weekend as mysteriously as it appeared, at least according to the news.
  18. Like
    Traveler reacted to Still_Small_Voice in Life, Death and an Isotropic Universe:   
    Likely there was no death in the Garden of Eden or just Adam and Eve were immortal beings until they ate from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.
  19. Thanks
    Traveler got a reaction from prisonchaplain in Sometimes the Big Name Preachers are just what we need   
    I do believe if we want to learn to love our enemies - somehow we must find some good in them.
    The Traveler
  20. Thanks
    Traveler got a reaction from prisonchaplain in Sometimes the Big Name Preachers are just what we need   
    I do believe if we want to learn to love our enemies - somehow we must find some good in them.
    The Traveler
  21. Love
    Traveler reacted to prisonchaplain in Sometimes the Big Name Preachers are just what we need   
    I've met some awesome clergy of other faiths, as well. My interactions with a United Church of Christ (very liberal) minister, with an Orthodox rabbi, with a Sunni Muslim imam, and with a Buddhist monk have all been fascinating. Of course, like @Traveler, I believe these men would be even more compelling if they had the abiding presence of Christ within them.
    That said, I've also seen forms of Christianity that sucked the life out of people. One friend of my older brother's became a Christian, and he seemed to be almost running on auto-pilot. His humor was gone, his perspectives calcified, and sadly, I doubt many would have been compelled by his changes. Yes, he behaved better. However, our faith should make us more alive, not less. It should bring out the positive aspects of our individual personalities, not suppress them. So, while there is not doubt that wealthy, celebrity preachers suffer from some flaws (we can discuss the errors without condemning the persons, imho), I suspect that they often provide desperately needed positivity to those who have become downcast, despite their faith.
  22. Okay
    Traveler reacted to Suzie in Sometimes the Big Name Preachers are just what we need   
    It reminds me to that old song from Genesis "Jesus He knows me".
    @prisonchaplain not sure how I feel about the example you gave, but it disturbs me deeply (good message or not) if desperate people are used in the process, if they are asked to show their 'gratitude' through financial "gifts" or donations in order to support a lavish lifestyle.
  23. Like
    Traveler got a reaction from JohnsonJones in Isaiah Translation   
    It is my understanding that the single greatest impact on modern Biblical textual criticism was the discovery of the Dead Sea Scriptures and Scrolls.  This would play directly into the textual criticism of Isaiah for several reasons.  Perhaps most important is that all the other Old Testament scriptures were maintained not as single text of each book but rather multiple versions of texts.  As I understand they are basically divided into a large and small (abridge) version of texts - one being more verbose than the other.
    This introduces another problem into understanding what you call "the intended message of the text".  That the intended message is not singular but rather as put forth by Isaiah - a plural message of line upon line upon line and precept upon precept upon precept here a little and there a little.
    But it also seems to me that the perspective of a Latter-day Saint is somewhat superior to others despite that there are scholars with generations of secular insight.  For example we know that a prophet such as Mormon and Moroni can abridge the revelations of previous prophets.  And that such abridgements can modify the underlying message that in essence can either add to or remove spiritual insights concerning a particular scripture, in part dependent on the loyalties to covenants of a specific "generation". 
    Thus it is my understanding that a Latter-day Saint is charged to study (from the "best" resources) all that is possible - come to a conclusion and then seek conformation through the power and Gift of the Holy Ghost.  And even then the confirmation is not singular or a end to seeking an "intended meaning" but as prophesied by Isaiah - the new line and new principle.  Not even then not as an end to be argued but rather a cherished insight to be added upon at some future time.
    The Traveler
  24. Like
    Traveler got a reaction from MrShorty in Life, Death and an Isotropic Universe:   
    My question here - for those that believe in a young earth ---- Why would a G-d of truth create the "heavens" and the earth in a shorten amount of time and then leave a preponderance of empirical evidence  that it was not done in such a short time?  If it was to "test" our faith - why would a G-d of truth test our faith based on deliberate discerptions? 
    The Traveler
  25. Like
    Traveler reacted to Still_Small_Voice in Life, Death and an Isotropic Universe:   
    It might have taken that long.  It possibly could have taken ten of thousands or hundreds of thousands or millions of years for the Earth to be formed and placed where it is.  We do not know.  There is so much theory we cannot solve about the origin of the Earth because of our minute amount of time we have been studying and keeping records.
    But I do not like it when people preach that the LORD formed the Earth in six twenty-four hour periods.  The physical evidence on the Earth simply does not show that.