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  1. Like
    Traveler got a reaction from Anddenex in Alma 30:7-11   
    It is my opinion that there is no difference between morals and laws (laws created by men).  I am of the opinion that the only "things" that can be legislated into law are what-ever is believed to be moral.  Attempting to change the speed of light, the gravitational constant, the value of pi or the distances between the earth and anything else in our solar system is absurd, foolish and irrational - and impossible to enforce or bring about any change through the power of law.   I submit that the only "thing" mankind can legislate into law - are morals.  Whatever other law anyone thinks to pass is of no effect outside of human society.  Take murder for example.  As universal as it may seem that murder is a "natural law" or "G-d given law" there is no such law on the Serengeti to keep a lion from murdering (or abusing in any way) any other animal they will for whatever reason - and this includes other lions being murdered or abused.  It is interesting that (as far as I know) there is no major religion that teaches any lion will be held responsible by G-d for any of their "bad" deeds. 
    I would introduce another thought about "G-d's Laws" and commandments.  I submit that it is impossible to break G-d's laws and commandments.  When we think of us or someone else breaking G-d's laws and commandments - it is an expression of speech.  The reality is that it is ourselves that are broken when G-d's laws and commandments  are not obeyed by ourselves.  Contrary to popular opinion - I do not believe that G-d punishes anyone for disobedience.  - I believe that not being obedient to the wisdom of G-d is its own punishment.
    I believe that those that desire LGBTQ may so desire and make such their moral and law for eternity.  In scripture this is called becoming a law unto themselves.  Those that desire to live with G-d must conform their individual morals and laws to his.  I also believe G-d to be incredibly intelligent and smart - so that when he says that adopting LGBTQ morals will result in miserable bondage - I am guessing (faith) that he is 100% correct.
    There should be at least two reason that we or anyone else supports and causes a moral to become law.  The first is to prevent anyone from using the force of law to make us live by their morals.  The second is to prevent someone from taking advantage of those unable or incapable of determining what is moral to them.  Generally we think of such as children but this can be increased to include anyone of "limited" ability.
    If someone wants to be involved in LGBTQ - I have no intent to prevent them but I also reserve the right to openly say that they are stupid and "unfit" to so think and do.  Part of the science of life is evolution.  A principle of evolution is "Survival of the Fittest".  By definition being fit to reproduce and so genetically survive is obviously not within the capabilities and intents of the LGBTQ and their understanding of morality.  To purport LGBTQ goes against the reason and intelligence of observable science - weather anyone chooses to believe in the wisdom or G-d or not.
    The Traveler
  2. Like
    Traveler reacted to Connie in What is happening?   
    And was that a successful search?
  3. Thanks
    Traveler reacted to JohnsonJones in Freedom, Family, and The Gospel   
    The pre-existence is one of the things that made so much sense to me when I thought about how justice could be available to all who live and lived and will live on Earth.  Prior to me learning about the gospel, this was one thing that bothered me.  With our existence simply being this mortal existence, how could anything be just with the different conditions were were in, especially if it was reliant upon us being baptized here on this earth (as per my understanding of my youth, rather than after I converted to the Church).
    Learning about the pre-existence answers so many questions.
  4. Thanks
    Traveler reacted to SpiritDragon in Political Gas Lighting   
    From Wikipedia:
    There is a major political party in the United States and many mainstream media outlets that would seek to manipulate citizens into believing that they are racist simply by virtue of having a certain skin color. It's pounded in at every chance that they are privileged and racist even without knowing it. Dialogue is discouraged as rather than discussing what actions (that they can control and change) are racist, they simply need to bow down and accept it is so. 
    There is a political ideology that is aligned with rewriting history to make the founding of your nation, which has been a beacon to the world about the greatest freedoms ever, is based in classism and racism. Yet a basic understanding of history should disprove such nonsense. The USA was based on the very ideals of freedom and equality. The very people and documents that have done more to promote freedom and equality in this world than any other are being rebranded as intentionally oppressive and abusive. The school system has been hijacked to fill the heads of the educated (lead to believe they are smarter on account of expensive indoctrination) with this nonsense leaving those who have learned actual history to be labelled as the uneducated... All the while denying these very "racists and bigots" stood up for the American dream and pushed for the very causes of equality and liberty they are painted as opposing. 
    I could go on, but I'm sure everyone already has their opinions made, perhaps even putting truth over facts (is that a gaslight in it's own right? If one is actually a Caucasian male peasant, but their "truth" is that they're an Asian Princess... do biological, genetic, and fiscal facts actually matter? Did they gaslight themselves, or was it the people who let them buy into the delusional alternate "reality" by not fact checking them?) That brings up a whole other can of worms - what's with these partisan fact checkers who don't check facts at all but express opinions as fact? Are both sides guilty? Sure, but no doubt one is more so as @Traveler has suggested. 
  5. Thanks
    Traveler got a reaction from prisonchaplain in Becoming like God   
    Sometimes I am dumbfounded that we agree on so many things when our understanding seems so different.
    While in college, I did very poorly in the liberal arts that seemed to dismiss logic and prize nonsense.  Since you used agriculture as an example - it is like the Agricultural Science graduate that returns to the family farm having finished college and soon found himself arguing with his dad about how to farm the land.  He tried to convince his father to plow and plant in straight rows to which his father would gruffly reply that more could be planted on a crooked row than a straight row.  Finely, in frustration the boy asked his father, "Don't you want to be a better farmer?"  To which the father responded, "I have known, long before you were born; how to be a better farmer!"
    For purpose of discussion lets examine your simple phrase.
    Although at the surface we may seem to agree on the power of the river finding its way to the sea - but there are deep undertows and back currents in our rivers of understanding.  And so I would appeal to the graduate scholar in you.  Anciently, in the era of understanding when the scriptures were recorded by chosen oracles (chosen by G-d not by determinations of any man) the term "righteous" did not directly mean someone of noble deeds.  It was a reference to someone that had made a "Covenant" with G-d.  At the surface we may see a covenant as a great river flowing to the sea.  But if we were to put a boat in the waters of the river without care of undertows and back currents - we will not likely make the journey to the sea, alive and in tact. 
    So what is a covenant with G-d?  How do we become righteous?  What is the difference in a covenant with G-d?  We should agree (I think) that deeds are a symptom - not the cause.  That someone that covenants with G-d will do good deeds but not all that do a good deed have a covenant with G-d.
    Someday we will all stand before G-d and we will have, through his grace and word, the opportunity and right (by COVENANT made before we were born a mortal) to make an account to G-d of our covenants.  I do not think, for example, that we will stand in G-d's presents and be judged of our knowledge of the do's and don't's of Keeping the Sabbath".  I believe we will account for our Sabbath Covenant and how our Sabbath Covenant prepared us and shaped us into our Eternal self and that Eternal self will be indistinguishable from the quality and attribute of G-d - or if our eternal self is not like unto G-d's Eternal self - we will be unworthy and unable to be one with G-d.
    If I have a point to make - it is covenant.  It is not which doctrine is better - whatever a better doctrine is.  It is all about covenant.  But the last point about having a covenant with G-d.  We do not make up our own covenant (through reading scripture or by any other means) and think that will do with G-d.  It is not for us to present "our" covenant or ideas of covenant to G-d and then think we have a covenant.  There is only "one" divine (true and living) covenant.  But there are many counterfeit covenants.  Which is the only purpose of Satan.  To get whom he will to accept any of the seemingly infinite false counterfeit covenants and thereby become divided and not one.
    The Traveler
  6. Okay
    Traveler reacted to Scott in Becoming like God   
    It is true that he is often quoted, but he was no fan of our church.  He considered it to be fraudulent and non-Christian. He also went as far as calling our church tyrannical.
  7. Like
    Traveler reacted to laronius in Becoming like God   
    To quote Joseph Smith from the King Follett discourse: "If men do not comprehend the character of God, they do not comprehend themselves." Not knowing who God is is like putting a very complicated puzzle together without knowing the picture but where God is the picture and we are the pieces. Also, our faith to act on God's word is directly connected to our ability to comprehend Him or at least his qualities. Knowing God after all is the definition of life eternal. So I completely agree. And to @estradling75 point, to "see" Christ is to see the Father. So to be like Christ you must first come to know him in which case you are also coming to know the Father.
  8. Like
    Traveler got a reaction from NeuroTypical in Political Gas Lighting   
    Before I begin - I am not a fan of Trump and I do not consider myself a Republican or Democrat.   I do not like the labels of conservative or liberal.  But in all honesty when we speak of political parties there is one party that is considered conservative and the other that is considered liberal.  I will leave it up to the reader as to which party and its members is which.  Also I have no intent to tell anyone which candidate they should support in the upcoming election.  This post is intended to highlight what I consider to be one of the greatest evils in politics.  It is what I call "Political Gas Lighting".
    The term gas lighting comes from a movie by that name.  Gas lighting is an evil psychopathic behavior where someone puts them self forward with a charming persona and then blames all their evil behaviors on someone else.  In other words they claim that they have to do evil things because someone else leaves them with no other choice.
    Currently there is a lot of evil behavior going on that everybody in both political parties says is bad.  We all seem to agree that destruction of property, bullying others into submission to your political ideas with intimidation or force (especially excessive force) - is evil and contrary to civil society.  And yet we are seeing these tactics being used to generate fear in any opposition.  Dare I say much like the evil Nazis that brought about our last World War?   Both of our major political parties are claiming that the other is at fault and the cause of the violence and mayhem.  The evil Nazis blamed those that they abused as the cause of their abuse.  I am not posting this to tell you which party is at fault - I am posting this so that you can figure it out for your self and determine for your self which party is guilty of gas lighting and therefore is the more evil than the other.
    The one question you need to ask yourself is - to which party do those involved in the destruction of property, mayhem, bullying of others and commuting crimes most closely align themselves?  Which political and media pundits do these individuals listen to and most likely find agreement?   If you can answer that question then you know which party is responsible.  If you cannot answer that question - I would suggest that before you make any other political decisions or alignments, in this country (the USA) (including what media outlets your should trust) - that you figure this out first.  If you find it impossible for you to determine - then stay out of all things political (including media coverage) and including voting in the next election.
    One last thing - do not gas light me if you decide not to vote.  Whatever you determine - own it!!!
    The Traveler
  9. Like
    Traveler got a reaction from JohnsonJones in Is Baptism required for exaltation?   
    Anciently in Egypt there was a cult of mathematicians that believed their knowledge came from G-d.  It is interesting that they appeared about the time of Abraham.  We have learned a lot about ancient Egypt since the time of Joseph Smith and when the Book of Abraham was published.  What is so interesting to me is that the symbolism in the Book of Abraham follows very closely the symbolism of the ancient mathematicians of Egypt.  But there is something else - Parley P Prat once drew a diagram of how G-d organized the universe.  I wish I could provide the diagram - but I cannot find it to display it.  But the diagram was vary similar to the Super Cluster Laniakea that I displayed above - with the difference that Parley drew straight lines and the deception above uses curved lines.
    The Traveler
  10. Haha
    Traveler reacted to Vort in Rejoice With Me! Two Milestones Almost Reached   
    Speak English, man! How many hogsheads per furlong is that?
  11. Like
    Traveler reacted to Jane_Doe in Sealing to wife and family Q   
    Our understanding of the Gospel continues to grow over time, both as individuals and as a collective church. 
    In the early days, sealings were more generally applied to all sorts of bonds between people -- family or not.  They were all sorts of bonds between people.   As time passed, especially into the Woodruff era, our understanding became more that sealings were for families, evolving into what we have today.   
    As to what's most correct: during Joseph Smith's day they did what they best knew how with the knowledge they have - and that was the best they had.  And today, we should do the best with what we have and seal families because that's what we know the sealing power is for.   
  12. Like
    Traveler reacted to anatess2 in New or potential members   
    That's not gonna be your biggest hang-up, I don't think.  Baptism can be a private affair if that's what you prefer.  You only need the priesthood authority to baptize you and 2 witnesses to make sure it's done right.
    Where you're gonna have a hang-up is membership itself.  This is not a passive church.  Being a convert is an ongoing action - receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost is supposed to inspire you to share the gift with others.  There are Sunday school classes, compassionate service, church fellowship activities, church callings which could include teaching and... because you're a woman, you become an automatic member of the Relief Society and will be called upon to minister other women.  You can, of course, decline all of these.  But being an active member of the church, people will be in the habit of asking these things of you.
  13. Thanks
    Traveler reacted to askandanswer in LDS view on Contraception   
    Perhaps. Perhaps not. It's not for me, or you, to say.
  14. Like
    Traveler reacted to estradling75 in LDS view on Contraception   
    Others have already covered policies and practices..  So let talk doctrine.
    If I am understanding Catholic doctrine correctly (and I make no promises that I do. I am a outsider with an outsiders view and understanding) is that at conception something brand new is brought into existence.  It never existed before and it will never exists again.  If you stop conception you stop people from ever existing.. which is worse then murder.  Thus a Catholic who understands this doctrine (assuming I understand and explain it well enough) will feel a lot of guilt about going on contraception.  It is really understandable and unavoidable.
    But since the OP is here requesting our view point.  Here is our doctrine.  The Pre-existence.  Any one that ever came to earth and got a body or will come to earth to get a body, existed before that point as personages of spirit.  We had personality and opinions and we could and did make choices.  Conception begins the creation of a physical body.  Assuming everything goes well at some point (not clearly defined although there are many opinions) one of these personages of the spirit moves in and their experience with mortally begins (for however long that lasts aka until they die).
    Thus for our faith, contraception is not in and of itself a problem.  The why we are choosing to use it could be sinful, but that is no different from our motivation for just about any choice.  Are we trying to do what God would have us do to the best of our abilities, or are we trying to defy God and trust in our own wisdom and understandings?
  15. Haha
    Traveler reacted to pam in I apologize   
    You had better apologize.     
  16. Sad
    Traveler reacted to Jonah in I apologize   
    No need to apologize.    If I can't reply to one of your queries, assume that I am stumped 🙂
  17. Like
    Traveler got a reaction from seashmore in What is happening?   
    Just as a side note - I have discovered both from my posting and responding to other posts - - - That when something is well thought out and logically posted that when others read it they will seldom respond.  But if you are to post something quite stupid or bazaar - everybody will respond in great lengths.
    As for toxic conversations - I like to reference Shakespeare who said, "Nothing is as good or as bad as it seams only that thinking makes it so."
    The Traveler
  18. Like
    Traveler got a reaction from seashmore in What is happening?   
    Just as a side note - I have discovered both from my posting and responding to other posts - - - That when something is well thought out and logically posted that when others read it they will seldom respond.  But if you are to post something quite stupid or bazaar - everybody will respond in great lengths.
    As for toxic conversations - I like to reference Shakespeare who said, "Nothing is as good or as bad as it seams only that thinking makes it so."
    The Traveler
  19. Haha
    Traveler got a reaction from Connie in I apologize   
    It would seem that those desiring an apology from me need to get in the back of a very long line - for which I guess I must apologize for as well  😨
    The Traveler
  20. Haha
    Traveler got a reaction from Connie in I apologize   
    It would seem that those desiring an apology from me need to get in the back of a very long line - for which I guess I must apologize for as well  😨
    The Traveler
  21. Like
    Traveler got a reaction from dprh in Is Baptism required for exaltation?   
    Two things.  First is that there are indications that for eternal beings existing in the same conditions with G-d; they are not subject to time.  If time has no eternal sequence for divine beings - then the assumption that Alvin (The Prophet Joseph Smith's brother) was "NEVER" baptized is categorically false.
    Second.  Anciently the meaning of "Righteous" was an individual that has a covenant with G-d.  By definition the first covenant with G-d is Baptism.   This is exactly the logic that Jesus referenced at his baptism - That baptism was necessary to fulfill all righteousness.  In other words baptism is necessary in order to have a covenant with G-d and thereby - necessary in order to be righteous.
    As a side note Joseph lived in a era when time was not as well understood.  Recent and more modern science has proven that even in our space-time there is proof that time is not a continuous function.  This is the seeming paradox between general and special relativity.   You may suggest to your friend that they join you and the rest of us in the 21st century.
    The Traveler
  22. Like
    Traveler got a reaction from dprh in If you inherited 5 million dollars   
    I would pay my tithing and taxes that with what is left I would take my wife out to eat at Taco Bell.
    The Traveler
  23. Like
    Traveler got a reaction from Connie in Perks of being favored of God?   
    I believe that sometimes to realize the perks that such things can be seen better when realizing the contrast or what is lost by refusing righteousness.   Anciently the term righteousness did not necessarily mean an honest citizen - it was a reference and an identification of someone that has entered into a covenant with G-d.  The contrast is someone that enters into a covenant with Satan.  Sometimes we like to think of this as a binary condition - that it is either one or the other but with some simple logic we can realize that there is another condition and that is the option of neither or pre-choice or the state of innocence before we establish or make a covenant.  For the sake of understanding and the time to explain everything - I will proceed with a shortened version.
    What does it mean to be favored of G-d - or to have covenant with G-d?  There are three basic elements or promises that G-d gives with his covenants:
    #1. Is a Promised Land.  Most people think of this as a place on earth that is our's to have and to keep.  But there is much more than that.  It is also freedom and liberty.  Often we think of such things in a political setting but it needs to be understood to mean that we can exercise Agency and be responsible.  It means that we are not forced into a state of bondage where the fruits of our labors are not ours to determine.  We can serve others without being compelled or forced.  We can live free by the delight of our agency and choice.  There is much much more that could be said about this perk but I will leave the rest as an exercise for the reader.
    #2. Is protection and deliverance from our enemies.  Having a Promised Land is not so great if someone can come in and take it away from you.  G-d premises that if we loose our promised land (our freedom and liberty) that he will hear our pleas and come to our rescue and deliver us.  There are both physical and spiritual perks with this particular promise and perk.  Some to be realized in this life but most importantly deliverance from our arch enemies of death and hell.
    #3. Is an enduring seed.  Mostly this is thought of as having a good marriage and lots of children, grandchildren and so on and so on for generations and generations.  Of course we all would like to see this particular promise fulfilled in this life.  But the real promise is for eternity or after this life.  This life being but a type and shadow of what is to come.  I realize that not everybody is married to their eternal partner in this mortal life - (though a great many are).  The promise is that you will become part of the family of Saints and the children of G-d - even in this mortal existence.  That the priesthood will be part of your heritage and that you will enjoy the loving family relationship of the Saints of G-d throughout all the dispensations of men.
    These are the basic perks that can and will include many blessings and additional promises to fulfill the basics.  But we must also realize two additional things.  Number one additional thing is that we promise to give something to G-d in return for these perks.  With many in the religious community; they hear that G-d's perks are free (that we do not earn them) so they do not realize that to covenant with G-d we are under obligation to be loyal to him and obey his commandments.  This bring me the a closure and the second very important additional "thing" that we call a trial.  It is not enough that we say we covenant - a covenant with G-d demands we are loyal to that covenant through a trial or perhaps more than one.  The trial is necessary so that we can fulfill our choice and be responsible and loyal - That we do choose G-d not just in word but in deed also.
    I thought to go on with the contrast of what happens when we covenant with Satan and succumb to his flattering words and temptations.  But alas this post is long enough - though I am willing to discuss openly any issue of infection to our perks of deliverance, healthy freedom, liberty  and family (marriage between a man and a woman).
    The Traveler
  24. Haha
    Traveler got a reaction from dprh in I apologize   
    You need to do this on about a dozen other threads.  
    The Traveler
  25. Thanks
    Traveler reacted to Jamie123 in I apologize   
    I must confess - I do sometimes come to this forum to "have a winge", but I'm glad there are people like you to make sure that my "winges" don't go unchallenged. 😁