notquiteperfect

(Book of Mormon | Alma 5:59)
59  For what shepherd (parent) is there among you having many sheep (children) doth not watch over them, that the wolves enter not and devour his flock (family)?  And behold, if a wolf enter his flock doth he not drive him out?  Yea, and at the last, if he can, he will destroy him.

"Spying" emplies that I'm doing something secretive.  No, I shall announce to my kids that I'll be monitoring every aspect of their actives, digital and otherwise.  Once they get older and wiser, then I don't need to watch.  It's called parenting.

Yes, and it looks as though the good old "agree to disagree" will need to be applied. 

If I understand nqp correctly, it's not an opinion. It's a personal observation.

That does it then. I'm bringing my model airplane to church this Sunday. I'll sit in the back and work on it. It's no one else's business but mine!
 
 
 
How about Elder Oaks' opinion:
 
During sacrament meeting—and especially during the sacrament service—we should concentrate on worship and refrain from all other activities, especially from behavior that could interfere with the worship of others. Even a person who slips into quiet slumber does not interfere with others. Sacrament meeting is not a time for reading books or magazines. Young people, it is not a time for whispered conversations on cell phones or for texting persons at other locations. When we partake of the sacrament, we make a sacred covenant that we will always remember the Savior. How sad to see persons obviously violating that covenant in the very meeting where they are making it.

I think its in the food, what has changed since the 19790's/early 80's. No one eats at home anymore/cooks fresh. it is all processed junk.

Sounds like it's time for seating charts at church!
 
people with fussy kids - back right (by the door)
knitters - back left
bouncers/wigglers/hair twirlers - middle right
phone/game 'enthusiasts' - middle left
hard-of-hearing - front and center
everyone else - hope you're not teaching/speaking!
 
lol
:)

Sounds like it's time for seating charts at church!
 
people with fussy kids - back right (by the door)
knitters - back left
bouncers/wigglers/hair twirlers - middle right
phone/game 'enthusiasts' - middle left
hard-of-hearing - front and center
everyone else - hope you're not teaching/speaking!
 
lol
:)

But neither sacrament meeting nor Sunday School (or RS/Priesthood meeting) is a "casual conversation". These are places where, we are taught, we should be 100% present and participating.
 
The question is not whether you personally would mind. That's irrelevant. I probably wouldn't mind, either, but the question is one of propriety, not whether you would get offended.

Apparently, per the ideas presented here, we ought to immediately allow such activities in the temple as well.
 
 
I think this is the point. Church is being treated like a casual conversation. I suppose that's the real crux of the matter. How important is church? How much respect should it be shown?

When I was in a singles ward and dating seriously moving toward engagement and marriage my bishop counselled me to ensure that my wife and I had no secrets between us, including past addictions, if any.
 
I think it builds trust in a relationship to talk about such things, why keep secrets - and why start off an eternal relationship with secrets? On the flip side would you want to know if your partner has a history of drug use, drinking, masturbating, sleeping around, a previously aborted child; I think it is only fair to both parties that such information is not a surprise after the ceremony.

I've heard it said that if you've repented, no one needs to know. That's probably technically true, but it seems a good idea to tell your spouse.

There's a difference between past mistakes and past addictions. BIG. Some mistakes are less likely to be repeated, but addictions, there's always a possibility of relapse. Might be a courtesy to give those details to a potential spouse.

This is just a major problem in general. Can't count how many times parents have allowed disruptive kids to remain in movie theatres and restaurants. I'm tolerant of one or two attempts to redirect but indeed there comes a limit when the child needs to be removed.

Yeh, that's crazy. I mean it's an entirely different ball game of crazy when people have "oops babies". I don't understand why in this day and age people aren't wiser in planning.

I've heard it suggested the "natural" child spacing would be 2-3 years.

No, actually, I don't get the idea. And I'm not being deliberately obtuse. I recognize the obvious tongue-in-cheek nature of your response, but I assume there is also some real feeling underlying it. But I don't understand it.
 
First of all, most young fathers sit with their families. Only a minority of such fathers sit on the stand.
 
Second, the appropriate reponse to an intractable and noisy child of any age is to TAKE HIM OUT OF THE MEETING. If that means the whole family must go, so be it.
 
Third, once the child is past about two years of age, appropriate (and kindly) discipline will be enough to insure that, within three months, 95% of such children will be making it through most sacrament meetings without any disruption.
 
So whether or not your example was in jest, I'm disinclined to believe the excuse that Mormon sacrament meetings are inherently noisy and irreverent because you just can't make them any other way. On the contrary, I know from personal experience that such an idea is untrue.

One of times I served as a Bishop our stake President was always encouraging us to start on time and to be on the stand at least 5 minutes before meeting started. We always had our organist play prelude music at least ten minutes before starting. It was a pet peeve of mine once the meeting started to have the chapel doors open. We always asked to have someone close them if they were open. To this day I will get up and close the doors myself if they are open. If I walk in and the other Ward has the doors open during their sacrament meeting I close them.

What's wrong with "discipline your children"?

Maybe I do. I can't think of any. I've noticed girls who twiddle with or chew on their hair, or people that play with a pencil or something like that. Is that what knitting is? Just mindless, slightly obsessive hand-play? I have noticed that autistic people will sometimes have some sort of motion or "tic" that seems to calm them and allow them to subdue their reactions to things, maybe even concentrate better. Is that along the same lines as knitting?
 
I am not trying to make fun of knitters (or of autism). I realize this is not an uncommon thing, and it strikes me as a part of the human condition. I expect it manifests in me, too. I'm just not sure where. I'm trying to understand the mindset. It seems as if there's an attitude of, "What a waste to sit here for an hour just listening to someone without actually DOING something useful. If only I had brought my knitting..." But the idea here is that the discourse itself is not important enough, or at least that there's no good reason not to knit while you're only going to be sitting listening to someone anyway.
 
If the Lord himself were speaking, would it be acceptable to knit while listening? If not, how is knitting at Church fundamentally different? Again, I'm not trying to be insulting or pick a fight. I'm trying to get a good handle on this issue. My questions are sincere.

Agree about the overflow.  Our ward recently tried to keep it closed to fill in the seats more but there was an outcry. :/
Anyway, prelude music needs to be a priority but a couple things I've seen is 'reverent kids' up on the stand with folded arms as a reminder/example.  I've also seen the bishop step up to the mic and remind people where they are.

Agree about the overflow.  Our ward recently tried to keep it closed to fill in the seats more but there was an outcry. :/
Anyway, prelude music needs to be a priority but a couple things I've seen is 'reverent kids' up on the stand with folded arms as a reminder/example.  I've also seen the bishop step up to the mic and remind people where they are.

I like a lot of what Anatess says . . . .
 
But I will be the grumpy old man :-). First off for the OP, I have a huge beef with sneakiness.  I implement very harsh discipline for a child who is sneaky behind my back, lies, etc. When I say no, it means no and the child best remember that. If I said no and the child does it anyways that is disobedient and disrespectful.  The when and where of how I implement that discipline is my choice, but they will be disciplined for directly disobeying.
 
That issues is about trust, the less you obey me the less trust I have in the child and consequently the less freedoms the child gets.  If the child obeys, the more trust I have and the more likely that I will give more freedoms.
 
2nd, there is no good reason why a child should have a smartphone. At best a dumbphone and if I allow them to use a cell phone, they will pay for it.  And most certainly not until they are at least in high school.  You want a phone, show me you can actually pay for it and earn it.  They will quickly learn that maybe texting isn't so important when they are paying 50+ a month for a cell phone and don't have money to do anything.
 
Too many evils can be done through a smartphone, especially if a child is sneaky . . . and every parent thinks, "my child would never to x". They can become addicted to the screen (if you've ever seen little kids watching TV you know this). There is sexting, bullying, etc, all for the comfort of being able to send out pictures and text whenever you want . . .sorry for a child the cons outweigh the pros.
 
http://www.amazon.com/Endangered-Minds-Children-Think-About/dp/0684856204
http://www.amazon.com/FAILURE-TO-CONNECT-Computers-Childrens/dp/0684855399
 
I think the social pressure aspect is blown out of proportion.  In fact, I think it's rather healthy for a child to have to tell their friends I don't chat, it will build a backbone so later in life they have the confidence to tell others no I don't do xyz.

On a personal level, I doubt I would be particularly bothered if people crocheted or knitted while I was speaking. Even if I noticed, I probably would not take offense.
 
On the other hand, there does seem to be something dismissive about engaging in another activity while someone is speaking to you, even congregationally. I tend to agree with PolarVortex that people at Church really should be putting their attention on the speaker and not on their handiwork. (Disciplining children, of course, is another matter entirely.)

Funniest story I ever heard about a yard sale... probably from Reader's Digest, but I forget.  (I remember howling with laughter at the stories from "Life in These United States.")
 
A women was having all the carpets in her house cleaned.  The carpet cleaners arrived and saw that it was a warm, calm day with zero chance of rain, so they moved all the furniture out onto the front yard and started cleaning the carpets of the now-empty house.  The woman was in the kitchen looking out the window to make sure her furniture and belongings were okay, and suddenly she sees a man on her yard walking through her furniture and picking things up and examining them as a buyer would. She rushed out to tell him her things weren't for sale, but before she could speak the man said, "Nice yard sale, lady.  Too bad all the good stuff has already been sold."