rameumptom

Good to be here. But let's spell the name right. Rameumptom ends with M not N. Here's where Book of Mormon literacy becomes key.

No sweat. I have a PhD in Google.

It is generally considered a requirement for bishop to be married. There have been a few instances I'm aware of, where a widower was bishop. The concept comes from Paul's admonition that a bishop be the husband of one wife.

There is a decent article/discussion on the DH here: Dave's Mormon Inquiry: The Documentary Hypothesis It includes reference to my favorite book on the DH: Who Wrote the Bible, by Friedman. And it notes some of Kevin Barney's thoughts on it, including some on his survey he did. Wikipedia also has a decent article: Documentary hypothesis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Well, I'm not sure if this is the same as Joseph and Aseneth (I think it might be), but Google books has a volume on ancient texts available that includes a book on Aseneth: Old Testament Legends: Being Stories ... - Google Book Search Wikipedia has an article on it here: Joseph and Aseneth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and for your great reading pleasure and excitement, here is the book, divided by chapters: Joseph & Aseneth: Translated by David Cook (the wiki article has the link, also).

It can happen, but would be difficult and rare. During World War II, much of the Axis countries were cut off from SLC. By the time the war was over, there were some congregations that had introduced candles and other items into the sacrament meeting. With today's communications and the Church's advanced organization, it would be very difficult. Today, we have stakes in most countries, with organized missions in even more. In the last decade, Pres Hinckley organized the Area Authorities, who have the authority in their region to do just about everything a General Authority can do - include organize stakes, etc. In other words, even if an area gets cut off from SLC today, the priesthood authority and firm foundation in well-established righteous leaders would prevent most units from straying today. If a bishop were to attempt to go that far off course, others in the ward and stake leadership would take note and ensure that the bishop repented or was removed from his position. The organization truly is one of the most inspired pieces of the Restored Church. While many churches have political battles over the heart of their congregations and overall leadership, our Apostles are planning on meeting this Thursday, where a well established pattern will be exercised again. Pres Packer, as second leading apostle will conduct. After prayer, he will present Thomas S. Monson's name as the new Prophet, Seer and Revelator. The apostles will sustain him. Then they will gather around him, and set him apart, activating the keys of presidency which he holds. Later, during General Conference, the membership will sit in solemn assembly and have the opportunity to also sustain the new presidency - first the quorums of priesthood and then the general membership.

Yes, Joseph added the "five books of Moses". In the original manuscript, it is "book of Moses."

You can find Joseph and Asenath at Joseph and Aseneth

And there are many more false churches, as well. I would suggest that when Joseph Smith saw the Father and Son, he wasn't warned about other churches, per se; but their false creeds. It was the Biblical truths that allowed people to draw near God with their hearts, but the creeds kept their hearts far from him as they led them away from original Biblical concepts. Even the LDS Church does not contain all truth in its current form, though we believe we should readily embrace all truth when it becomes apparent. We do not have the priesthood keys of resurrection, nor do we know what day Jesus' Second Coming will occur. But we should spend our lives eagerly seeking truth wherever it may be, even as Brother Brigham encouraged us to do. And in the many churches I've researched, many of them good and with much truth; I've yet to find one with as much exalting truth as has the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

The LDS Documentary Hypothesis suggests that the Brass Plates were the E version of the writings of Moses. However, in quoting 1 Ne 5:11, I would note that in the original manuscript, it states "book of Moses" and not books. Joseph Smith, in his amazing way of not always really knowing what he had at hand, "corrected" the manuscript to say "books." It is highly possible that E did not have all 5 books of Moses, just as the normal Documentary Hypothesis suggests (Deuteronomy was created in King Josiah's day), but there would be ancient writings upon which all 5 books were built upon. To what extent would Nephi have understood the lex talionis when originally attempting to get the plates from Laban? True, he wrote his account 20 years later, after he had become a gospel scholar on the Brass Plates and was able to recount the story to us from such a perspective. Others have discussed how Nephi turned his account into a David and Goliath formula, as well.

Well, there are a lot of them online you can start with. You can find several good ones at: Early Christian Writings: New Testament, Apocrypha, Gnostics, Church Fathers

Good question. Our American world view is very different than the ancient world view. Moses' command: Thou Shalt Not Kill/Murder, was premised on the idea that God gives life and only God can command that it be ended. Hugh Nibley told of a Book of Mormon class he taught several years ago at BYU, where he had some non-LDS Arab students. When they got to this spot, he was interested in their thoughts on it. They were upset with Nephi because he paused to question God. In their view, had Nephi been truly faithful, he wouldn't have shrunk from killing Laban, but would have done it quickly and faithfully. Had Laban been allowed to live, he would have awakened and sent armies to chase Nephi and his family. It's possible that Zoram, Laban's servant, would not have been as quick to join the Nephites, but would have worked to restore the items to Laban. Finally, we cannot always understand why God sometimes commands death and sometimes mercy. Why does one child miraculously survives cancer and another dies? Why did thousands of children die in the tsunami in Indonesia, and yet God allows others to live? It all comes back to God's eternal purposes for both individuals and also for nations. God was wanting to create a nation with Nephi and needed the Brass Plates. In other instances, God has shown mercy to the non-believers.

A Church or belief is "true" insofar as it teaches God's truth. That, however, is a very subjective idea, as we do not have a completely objective view from God's eyes. Every church is "true" insofar as it is correct on teachings. And every church is false insofar as it is wrong. This includes the LDS Church, which does not have all the answers. Roman Catholics see themselves as having the truth passed down from generation to generation. Protestants view that the truth was tainted and needed reformation. The LDS stance is that many gospel truths were lost and needed restoring. While all of them have truth (such as we all use the Bible - IF it is in case the truth - a subjective thing), the question arises as to which holds a higher level of truth, and does that really matter? Some would say we just need to believe in Jesus and we're saved (except in EVs case, where they add the restriction: except for Mormons and other cults). Others require certain rites or obedience to commandments. Only God knows for certain which of these is most correct, and whether it matters or not. LDS Restoration teachings tell us that exaltation is primarily based upon Christ's atonement, but also requires priesthood ordinances and obedience. Families can be forever, but only if sealed in a temple by those with the proper authority. Other Christian religions marry "until death do you part." Which one is God's way, or is there another alternative? We do not pretend to have all the truth. We teach that other religions generally have enough truth to save individuals in a kingdom of heaven/glory. However, to achieve God's highest glories and blessings - a fullness - one must be valiant in seeking and embracing God's truths and priesthood power. The interesting thing about God is that he does not convert us wholesale. We each have to find our own testimony, and what we are ready, able and willing to receive as truth. Some of the teachings of Joseph Smith are difficult for people to accept or abide by. I have a Bible, why do I need the Book of Mormon? Why must I pay 10% tithing? Why can't I have a drink or a smoke? Why can't my marriage outside the temple be for eternity? In all of this, we must prayerfully seek God's will and mind, and not our own. And we must prepare ourselves to accept whatever His Spirit witnesses to us, as there is no other way in which we can obtain a personal witness of truth - regardless of which church we belong to now (if any).

Actually, I have known stake presidents called that were not a bishop first. While most have been a bishop first, it is not a requirement.

Are you driving or flying? If you are planning to pass through Indianapolis, let me know and maybe we can hook up. Rameumptom

I'm just west of Indianpolis, so I'm pretty much centered between the eastern LDS sites. 5 hours from Nauvoo and Kirtland, 8 hours from Palmyra and Far West. My wife and I spent 10 days in Nauvoo last September. We stayed at the CoC's campground - had a cabin for $12 a night, with few others there. Deer came into the camp every morning to eat acorns. We had a nice visit with some of the CoC members that run the place - they are good and decent people, and you should be proud of them, Dale. September is a very good time of year to visit - weather is still very good and there are no crowds. We visited with the temple president on the steps of the Nauvoo Temple one Sunday afternoon, when he was sitting there on a folding chair greeting visitors. I'm an amateur nature photographer, and so taking shots around the Mississippi at various time of the year is awesome, as well. Nice to take photos without 10,000 LDS tourists getting in the way. I was able to find some good locations along the river for shots of pelicans and blue heron. Stopping by the LDS land records building is always worthwhile. I was able to find where a couple my ancestors had homes/land holdings in Nauvoo. My wife found out that her ancestor, Jeremiah Leavitt had 40 acres up on the "Mound", so we went in search of it. At the very top of the Mound, the highest spot in the county, is a home of a non-member, who is very friendly towards the Church. She used to have a bed and breakfast in the home, and rents LDS land in Nauvoo for crops and cattle. Anyway, using a plat map, we found that the Leavitt land was directly east of her property, and so we were able to walk on the corn fields that were once Leavitt property. It's also the time to go for the grapes. Next to the CoC campground is a local farmer that sells juicy Concord grapes for $1 a pound. We bought about 15 pounds while there, and munched on most of them or made grape juice for breakfasts. Something that most LDS that go to the area miss, are some of the nearby non-LDS sites. South of Nauvoo, about an hour, is Mark Twain's home town of Hannibal. Great place for a steamboat ride, and there's an ice cream shop there that has Huckleberry Ice Cream - only huckleberry ice cream I've ever found this far east. Just south of Hannibal is Lover's Leap, with an awesome view of the town and Mississippi River. Going into Iowa or back west into Illinois are Amish settlements. There are a few Amish stores where you can get some very decent items at a great price. My wife stocked up on canning lids, which would have cost us 3 times as much in Indianapolis. We also had the privilege of visiting an Amish schoolhouse, where about 20 children attended. The property it was on was/is for sale, and we actually considered purchasing it - however the home has no running water or electricity, and would have been very expensive to install (not to mention that insurance companies required electricity to insure the home). By the way, while we were there, the Hyrum Smith home and farm was for sale - 3/4 million dollars for anyone with the pocket change to buy it. We gasped at its price, but that's what is to be expected with the Nauvoo Temple. Don't move there unless you have already found a job, or are retired. There are few jobs in the area, and recent studies show that the area is losing population (except right in the Nauvoo area). Prices for homes in/around Nauvoo are artificially high, but if you go down to Hamilton, you can probably get a decent deal on a place. The drive between Nauvoo and Hamilton is probably one of my favorite drives in all the USA. You are along the Mississippi the whole way (about 12 miles), and it is gorgeous. It rivals Montana's Road to the Sun drive, and I-90 along the Florida/Mississippi gulf coast. Anyway, Ramona and I are actually considering retiring to the Nauvoo area when we're finished working and serving in the Indy area, we like it that much.

While you are working on giving up smoking and hopefully preparing to join the LDS Church, remember to keep working on the things that are easier to do: pray, study the scriptures, attend Church. If it takes you years to stop smoking, at least your progression during that time will be a blessing and benefit in your life, in that you have moved forward spiritually - even if baptism is delayed by a few bad habits.

I suggest you take this as with eating an elephant: one bite at a time. If you cannot handle stopping coffee and smoking right now, then work on the things within your comfort zone. Talk stuff here. Read the Book of Mormon. Attend Church (preferably LDS services, but anywhere is better than nowhere), even if it is only Sacrament meeting or Sunday School. Little by little, as you get accustomed to doing something, and it becomes easier for you, you will then be ready to take the next step - whatever that might be. LDS teach that we all learn and grow "line upon line, precept upon precept." Sometimes we have huge/quick changes in our lives (Significant Emotional Events) that cause huge upheavals and changes in our lives. Most of the time, we change a little at a time. Most of us do not have a Joseph Smith First Vision or Paul seeing Christ event. Most of us gain our testimonies through study and prayer over time, with the Holy Ghost guiding and building us as we go along and are ready for the next level of growth. So, if you aren't ready to take it all on at once, no problem. In the Book of Mormon, King Benjamin told us that we should not run faster than we are able, but we should be moving in the right direction. If you cannot run, then you should still try to walk or hobble as best you can. God will help you, and with time you will be strong enough to stop smoking and drinking coffee and will manage other weaknesses, as well. Interestingly, even after 32 years in the Church, I find I still have weaknesses and issues to overcome - so I keep on walking in the right direction, believing that Christ will help me to overcome all my weaknesses in His own time.

Thanks. I'm sure I'll be as happy here as at the FAIR message boards.

There never was an actual blessing connoting that JSIII would be his father's successor. There was a forged blessing provided in the 1980s by Mark Hoffmann, which the RLDS prominantly displayed a copy of in their visitor's center in Nauvoo, until it was found to be a fraudulent document. The reality is, when Jesus died, the apostles gathered together and organized the Church again, including the selection of new apostles and leaders. And the pattern continues, even today. We need to remember that even in the early apostolic era, John and Paul fought against those that pretended to be authorities of the Church. They warned about anti-Christs and others that attempted to change the Church. John even ended his Revelation with a curse for any apostates (such as the Nicolaitans) that were known to tamper with the real apostolic writings.

Even if we were to take the RLDS claim seriously that the Prophet's position is passed on from father to son, they've basically lost that claim in the last 15 years, as they no longer insist that their prophet be a direct descendant of Joseph Smith. These ties seem to have been cut in name, as well, since they now call themselves the Community of Christ; and the Book of Mormon's use is left to the discretion of the individual member. Not only would Joseph Smith roll over in his grave concerning such changes, but so would Joseph Smith III. The only Restoration LDS Church to show a clear and continuous line of authority has been the LDS Church. Wilford Woodruff described the frequent meetings with Joseph Smith that the 12 had during the last two years of Joseph's life. In one of the last meetings, Joseph told them that he was now satisfied that the keys and information had been passed on to the 12, and it didn't matter what happened to him.

For an indepth and historical view of Joseph Smith's life, I would recommend: Joseph Smith - Rough Stone Rolling, by Richard L Bushman. There are many books that either put Joseph Smith on a pedestal of perfection, and others that attack him as a scoundrel. Bushman's book is a rather faithful historic account, discussing even the difficult issues and trying to see them from Joseph Smith's world view. There are other books that are geared more to inspire. This isn't one of them. This one definitely informs and leaves you with a good understanding of Joseph Smith as a man and as a prophet.

Thanks. I've lots of experience on such lists. Patience is definitely something I always try to exercise.

Hello. While I've been on the Internet on LDS forums since 1988, I'm always glad to find a new and interesting place to play. Name: Gary Smith live in Indianapolis. Served in Bolivia Santa Cruz mission 1978-80. Currently a high priest group leader. I've been a member of FAIR for many years, and have spent years defending the Church as an apologist. No apologies needed.... If anyone has any difficult LDS questions, perhaps we can explore them together. I've read dozens of ancient Judaeo-Christian texts and have a decent understanding of just how real of a Restoration we are talking about.