rameumptom

Currently, there is a symposium on Mormonism and Science going on in Utah, and live broadcast here: This morning, they had a scientist talking about the Big Bang, and how it supports Joseph Smith's teachings, including that matter/energy are eternal. We need to see how our own faith's teachings (and our own personal beliefs) match up to science and religion.

Originally Posted by jinc1019 But how can matter exist forever...it must have been created at some point by something! You run under the assumption that something must create everything else. Why? We could just as easily ask what created God in the first place? Traditional Christians will tell us that God always existed. But they cannot say how he can be forever, and nothing else can be. Science, OTOH, shows us that matter is eternal.

I am a blogger at The Millennial Star I also have my private blog at Joel's Monastery I haven't posted much here in the last year, since I've been doing SS lessons, and the D&C is thematic. I may pick back up and do more on the Old Testament starting next year, however. I would also recommend feastuponthewordblog.org which has lots of lessons on the scriptures and PH/RS manual

Joseph DID teach it. The problem is, he only spoke of it on two occasions, the King Follett Discourse being the best known. Unfortunately, while he gave us much to ponder, he did not give a lot of details on how it all works. So, much of what is spoken of on the topic of God having been a man and has his own father, etc., is highly speculative. That said, the Church still holds to the concept, even though we do not have additional revelation on it. In this year's Adult manual for Priesthood and Relief Society, President Lorenzo Snow is quoted saying the well known couplet: "As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become". We have doctrine regarding man being saved and exalted, becoming like God and (as John the Revelator stated) being able to sit down on God's throne with him. However, beyond those two brief speeches by Joseph Smith and the example of Jesus, we do not have details on God once being man.

Actually that is a belief many Christians and Jews have, but isn't correct. We have two versions of the Creation in the book of Genesis. Neither of the stories requires creation ex nihilo (God creating things from nothing). Instead, they suggest God is creating earth from stuff that is already there. Then, we have Isaiah sharing an ancient Sumerian Epic, where God has to slay the Dragon/Leviathan/Chaos in order to bring Order into the world. This concept was obviously believed by the apostle John, who continued the tradition by again having the Dragon slain at the end of the World, when complete order would be established on earth. LDS believe that matter is eternal along with God. Does probably does not create ex nihilo, but forms things from matter that already exists. Science tends to agree with the permanence of matter in some form. Even the Big Bang was a creation out of everything (and not the nothing that some Creationists claim). It may be that God began the Big Bang, but it occurred with matter that already existed in the form of a singularity.

You are welcome. We try to be very accomodating here. Now, if you could stand over in that corner and try not to cough on me....

We believe that Jesus was once a mortal man, and that he is currently God with a resurrected and glorified body, similar to man's (or the body he had in mortality). We believe Jesus followed the pattern of his Father, which was to have gone through a mortal experience, so (as Paul teaches) he can know how to succor his people. We believe there are many Creations, some created by our own Father/God, and others created by his fathers. As God followed in the footsteps of his fathers, so Jesus also followed by becoming a mortal. Your question of where God began, if he was once mortal/had a father, is no more curious than asking what God was/is prior to creating the universe. Remember, the word "eternal" for the ancient Hebrews did not mean "forever", but meant a very large number or time. In fact, ancient Hebrews (including Isaiah and other prophets) believed that God (El Elyon or Elohim) was not alone in the beginning, but had a divine council of sons (elohim), including Jehovah. This divine council was not really known by the scholars in Joseph Smith's time, but in the last 50 years more and more scholars are coming to accept it as fact. According to Methodist OT scholar Margaret Barker, early Christians believed that Jesus was the Messiah, the Angel of God's Presence, Jehovah. She continues that Jesus actually restored this concept of a divine council that was lost due to the Temple Reforms done in King Josiah's days. Most scholars today will tell you that the God of the Bible was anthropomorphic (man-like), with emotions (love, jealousy, anger), and actual body parts (Moses, Isaiah, Stephen and others saw God). Some Christian scholars are now moving away from Thomas Aquinas' model of God as the "Unmoved Mover" to a model of God being the "Most Moved Mover". How can God love, and still be unmoved? If Jesus is unmoved, how can he weep or feel sorrow? So, the Bible does give some good support to the beliefs Mormons have regarding God, Jesus and others in a divine council.

Big Government and television teach many parents a different way of raising kids: you ply them with stuff, so you do not have to teach them anything about life. It works great for those wanting to be cool parents, at least until it is time for them to leave the nest and they refuse to fly because they don't know how.

Pam, had you kept me as moderator, I would have ensured the slackers and sinners were all kicked off. I would even kick myself off this site, because any site that would take me as a member is not a place any good person should be! Why, there would only be you, PC and Dravin left on the site, and I'm sure that would be very satisfying.... PC, clearly God only wants you infesting one Mormon site, so you do not contaminate too many Mormons before they can be inoculated.

I own a Kindle Touch. There are old and new versions of the scriptures for it and hundreds more LDS books and artcles that you can download onto it. The Touch does allow you to load up hymns/music/talks onto it to listen to. It also has a text reader, so I can listen to any book, as well. I don't think the Paperwhite does sound, so you may not be able to listen to anything. Something to definitely check out. For the ability to download things easily or watch video, I would suggest a Kindle Fire, etc. The e-readers do minimal Internet access and will not view movies, etc. I am very pleased with my Kindle Touch. Sometimes I would like to have the additional abilities that the Fire has (Internet, word processing, apps, etc), but it does 80% of what I need and is terrific for reading books.

The Spirit may also work darkly on us in cases where it calls upon us to repent. Most people have experienced a guilty conscience, which is the Spirit trying to get us to repent and change, so we can again experience the peace and joy of the Lord.

Give him a choice: 1. talk to the bishop about changing his life around, or 2. Getting his mouth washed out with soap. The second one worked for me just fine.

Here are some articles I wrote several years ago on such questions. You may especially like this article on Joseph Smith describing the first ancient IPad.

That is wonderful. I wish more people would stop and find out about how peaceful and wonderful sacred space in the temple can be. I also love the temple, because all my worries stay outside and I just feel great peace.

apexviper, That is one way to look at it. The way most scholars look at it is we are given two different Creation stories, one from J and the other from P. Later, we get other Creation stories in the Bible, including one from Isaiah, where God must destroy the sea dragon. And again, the other Creation stories in Moses and Abraham are also different. Clearly they cannot all be historically true, but most (if not all) are metaphorical creation stories. Traveler: I agree with your assessment of 1 Enoch. It currently is part of the Ethiopian Bible. When we look at which books of the Bible were actually written by the purported author, we find that Daniel and various other books were written centuries later, Paul only wrote 1/2 his epistles, and the apostle John did not write the gospel or Revelation. In fact, none of the gospels were written by their assumed authors! So, do we take all of these with a grain of salt as well?

I think many immigrants would love to learn English, given the chance. However, historically it usually has taken a few generations to move from a native language to English. Part of the reason is that peoples tend to group together with others they are familiar with. So, when my ancestors immigrated from the Ukraine, they gatherd in the Dakotas with other German-Russian immigrants that worshiped as they did, held similar celebrations, worked alike, and spoke German/Russian. I'm sure all of us have had ancestors who took a few generations to learn the language well. We should give the same consideration to the new immigrants.

In death, there is no one that can solve most of the big problems. That is also true in life. In 35 years of membership, I've almost never had a home teacher visit. And if I'm on my deathbed, I won't expect one, either. These are humans with human weaknesses. I will not judge them, and I especially will not judge the Church or God by the people in the Church. Instead, I hope I will be like many I've known, who have died of cancer, etc. They were brave. Instead of seeking others to comfort them, they spent their last days trying to comfort others. They got their comfort from God, knowing that the covenants they've made with God are still intact and eternal. I am amazed at the legacy of courage and joy they leave behind, and am certain God will give them great blessings in heaven for being the strong ones. It is in the scriptures and prayer where you can find strength. However, you have to be asking the right questions and searching for the answers God wishes to give you. He may not heal you or send you a home teacher. But he can inspire you to bless others, be joyful in your trials, and live with hope and peace with Christ.

Again it is apples and oranges. You are missing the concept of two different peoples: Nephites and Lamanites. If you wish an analogy, you would need to say there was a walled city in ancient Florence Italy, and then 1500 years later we find another walled city in Hamburg, Germany. They are not necessarily related. While in the general vicinity, they are separated by time and people.

Vort, I believe the Nephites had walled cities. That said, I do not believe that an ancient city that is not directly tied to the Nephites in time, possibly location, and actual people (Nephites were destroyed 400 years before, and Nephite walled cities were 1000 years before)), then we can only look at this as a coincidence. This would not make good scholarship. Instead, we would have many scholars, including LDS scholars, dismissing such a claim. Apples and oranges are not to be compared.

Bytebear, your interpretation may be a correct metaphor, but I believe it is based on a physical entity. Here we have Abraham describing the cosmos, according to his best understanding (which is somewhat earth-centric). It shows planets and stars "governed" by others that are above them. When we look at the cosmos today, we see much the same thing. Our planets are governed by the Sun, which is governed by the black hole (a type of imploded star) in the center of the galaxy. Our galaxy rotates and shifts around a group of galaxies in the neighborhood, possibly influenced/governed by a governing galaxy or planet. There seems to be a hierarchy going on here. The concept of multiple galaxies is less than a century old. No one could imagine that the universe is made up of perhaps 200 billion galaxies, each with 200 billion stars! Yet, that is the best estimate we have today. It fits perfectly with the Lord telling Moses that he has endless creations.

Abraham says "gods" or elohim, because early Jews and Semites believed in a divine council of gods, led by God Almighty (El Elyon). The Bible indirectly references this council in several places, including Psalms, Isaiah, and Revelation. Even Jesus quoted Psalms in stating "ye are gods." The book of Abraham was not purchased by Abraham, but by Joseph Smith (typo?). The oldest New Testaments are in Greek and Aramaic. The oldest Old Testaments (Jewish Bible) are Hebrew and the Greek Septuagint. Latin came later, during the Christian era. The Popes did not translate any version of the Bible until centuries after the death of Jesus. Translations were done by scribes, bishops, and other religious people. "Jesus" is the Greek version of the Hebrew name "Yeshua" or Joshua.

I do not see a connection, just a coincidence. As noted, this is more than 800 years later than Capt Moroni. We may as well say that the casinos we find on AmerIndian reservations today have a connection to the wigwams and teepees used in the 17th century....

Within 50 years, our nation will be a nation primarily of Hispanics, due to immigration and number of children born. So, Spanish may become the major language some day. Fortunately, I'm fluent in it, so I'm ready. Also, Catholics are great people, and I do not mind sharing America with them.

PC, if you get raptured out of here anytime soon, I'm sorely going to miss your insights here. While Mormon scripture teaches a post rapture, we do believe that God will establish a Zion people out of all the righteous on earth. There will be special protection from God for them. This, while the wicked fight amongst themselves prior to Armageddon and the 2nd Coming of Christ.

I'm not surprised. given our religions agree on 80% of things, there is a lot in common for us to share. We believe that God gives inspiration and wisdom to men throughout the world, and we embrace that truth and wisdom regardless of where it is found. That the world drifts further and further away from basic Christian tenets may bring Mormons and Baptists closer together, as well.