Misshalfway

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Everything posted by Misshalfway

  1. Hi Kenzers7. I don't think you should apologize for feeling disgusted. Feeling disgusted would be an appropriate response to something that is disgusting. I'm going to agree with you. Porn is disgusting. And when we find out our friends are doing that, it's sometimes hard not to question whether or not they are still the person we thought they were. I love it that you care so much about your friend. I love it that you want to be a loving person. All of that says so much about who you really are. In 9th grade, I had a good friend. We'd hang during lunch and had fun at debate tournaments together. One day he asked to me lie for him because he'd been drinking alcohol and didn't want to get in trouble. I did some research and found out he was drinking a lot. I realized that his influence wasn't good for me, and I distanced myself from him. I wasn't mean. I didn't stop loving him, but I did do what was in my best self interest. I knew I couldn't trust him to be a good friend to me. I knew he wouldn't protect me and might expose me to situations that weren't the best even though he was nice and funny. I don't know your friend. I don't know what the circumstances are surrounding your friends issues. What I will tell you is to listen to the spirit and listen to your gut instincts. Learning the lessons of love and tolerance and long suffering are really good things but not if they require us to compromise our standards or our boundaries. So while you are figuring out how not to judge your friend, don't turn off gut feelings that might be there to lead you in wise directions.
  2. Loving people is one thing. Giving them access is another. God doesn't stop loving his sinful children, but he restricts their access. It isn't unloving if my 16 year old daughter chooses not to associate with someone struggling with sexual problems. It's protective. And I'll tell you.....if she doesn't restrict access, I will.
  3. Yup. You've hit the nail. There is no good answer. LDS sealings are absolutely out of the norm. It's hard to argue it because each perception is different. There is no doubt that the temple ritual restricts behaviors. I remember kissing my husband just after our sealing in the hallway outside the sealing room. We were abruptly censured by a very lovely white haired lady who abruptly took my arm and ushered me to my dressing room leaving us both feeling embarrassed and urked. Did such interfere with my joy? Yeah... it kinda did for a minute. I was young and swept away by the moment and didn't realize that a post sealing kiss was inappropriate. But that's just the deal when you get married the mormon way. You make certain sacrifices. And it's ok to feel whatever we feel about it. My girlfriend was a convert. Her nonmember family had a really hard time with her decision to marry int he temple. It broke her dad's heart that he couldn't give away his baby girl. I watched as my friend hugged her tearful dad just before she entered the doors on the temple. And I saw him walk back to his car in tears. But you know, my friend didn't regret her choice. She felt heartbroken too but also completely at peace with her decision. Whose to judge what's joyful and what's not? I don't know. If I were gonna plan a wedding, I'd do it with Martha Stewarts entire staff and I'd add all the drama and ambience to create a celebratory experience for everyone. Mormon sealings just aren't like that. And so I'd admit that Carlimac is right in a sense. It's a different kind of display. Not sure how to measure joy though. It's not like traditional marriage ceremonies are guaranteed to produce joyfulness.
  4. I just wanted to apologize, Introvert. I didn't realize that you are new to the church. I totally see why this would be confusing and concerning. I can hear myself saying the same things if I were new. It is frustrating when you are expected to "just know". I'm sorry for that. I really like and use the "For the strength of youth" pamphlet with my kids. It does a lot of the work for me, I guess. I know my kids understand it and I know their teachers are referring to it a lot in church. So, I try to build on that. And the language is specific without being explicit or too "educational". It helps me stay age appropriate. I like resources for FHE lessons too. For adult study, I really like conference talks on the subject. And LDS.org makes it so easy to search by topic. Conference talks have really helped my understanding and testimony grow on the LofC subject. Beyond that, I just try to keep the conversation open with my kids. It feels like with all the corruption and easy access in this day and age, I've got to be vigilant all the time! I'm horrified to discover what my kids are exposed too. Completely different than when I was young. And I thought it was hard then! You are doing good, introvert. Prolly better than you think. It gets easier. I promise.
  5. Do I think kids "really understand"? What does that even mean? Considering that I educate adults in my office routinely, I would say no. And I would also say that it's ok that they don't "really understand". ALL of us learn line upon line. I'm more concerned that you seem to want the church to do the educating on these sensitive subjects. Let me say that 10 times over. Such discussions are more suited towards older groups maybe. But it really should start at home. The fact that your son, at age 12, didn't understand isn't of worry at all. It just means it's time to man up and have "the talk". And not just one! Lots of them over time that include age appropriate information and loads of modeling about how to approach human sexuality and sexual development. If you feel shame and teach perfectionism, your child will adopt that. If your child is embarrassed, that would be NORMAL. Teach your kid how to be embarrassed in your presence. If you get all wiggy, or if you get shaming, or if you freak when they tell you they've made a mistake, well....then perhaps there are some line upon lines waiting for you to learn. PS. It wouldn't hurt to throw in some guidelines about the dangers of the internet and appropriate use of handheld electronics.
  6. I read this article too. I think the discussion on porn feels a lot like the older discussions about cigarettes. I think the reality of it's "pernicious-ness" is slowly dawning on us. It's somewhat frustrating to me that medical/psychiatric views categorize the problem as compulsive even though I can see why they are having a problem designating the issue under the "addiction" umbrella. I was disappointed to see at least some designation in the DSM V. But no. Good part is that the label is less important than getting honest about the problem. I watched a TED.com talk on this. It's called "the great Porn experiment". It talks about how the ability to access so much novelty on the internet is literally blowing out the brain. 20 year old men who are using porn a lot, are now going to the dr. asking for viagra because they are unable to achieve (wording this carefully) normal male anatomical changes. :) In short, the human body just wasn't meant to experienced such an overload. I'm afraid we are going to be very slow to learn, even with all of the information that is out there.
  7. I just wanted to add a thought to this line of thinking. Sometimes I feel the tedium of the repetition too. I've decided that it's not the repetition necessarily that's boring me. Well, maybe it is. I guess I feel that I've grown out of certain things. And if we are progressing then something like that is sure to happen. I don't know exactly how the church solves that. The messages must stay geared towards the general population. So I guess that means we have to go to the personal resources like temple, prayer, and individual tutorials. On the other hand, conference is very repetitive yet I never find myself bored. I always, even when I've felt a little pissy about the church, felt spiritually nourished. I think it is because they speak with the spirit. Frankly, I don't know if teachers/speakers ARE preparing with the spirit. In lessons, I often feel that they are gimmicky. Like they lean on the cool poem or the display on the table or on the tear jerker story. We need more spirit. I think that is the answer.
  8. Learning "patience" the way you put it sounds like a load of white knuckling. I suppose you could do that and exhaust your adrenals. But I'm not sure "learning how to wait for a man" is living life. My advice is live the life you have and learn to love the life you have right now. See if you can find gratitude for everything about your life....even the parts that aren't what you want right now. Learn to find companionship inside yourself and with others that cross your path right now. This is a life lesson. It isn't about whether or not marriage will come to you. It's learning that happiness doesn't come for arriving at some future "when this happens" or "when I get my wish". It is cultivated in the now.
  9. I don't think our reactions of anxiety and depression are inflicted either way by God. They are our emotions..our reactions. Can God's answers make us feel anxiety? SURE! We feel this for a variety of reasons. Perhaps God's answer challenges us to do something that is scary or has daunting implications. Like when he told me not to marry weird eyebrow dude. I knew it was the right answer, but I was so scared and so sad to hurt this boy who had been so good to me. I was scared but obeyed anyway. That didn't mean I didn't mourn the loss afterwards. And it didn't mean Satan had control of my mind. It just meant I was a human being having an honest emotional reaction to a difficult scenario. Or perhaps it's something we didn't want to hear or weren't prepared to hear. $100 bucks Nephi felt some anxiety right before he chopped off Laban's head. $200 bucks he said, "OMG! I can't believe I just did that!" right afterwards. Like he saw that answer coming. And there is no way Abraham didn't feel some sadness while walking that long road to the potential execution of his son. Sweetie, these emotions are not good or bad. They just happen because we are human. Try not to assign such judgments to them. They are part of the process of learning to align with God. OK? We can feel the peace, assurances, and influences of holy spirit AND have an emotional reaction to them. This isn't because Satan has a hold on us. It is because we are in process and we have to feel uncomfortable in order to exercise faith. It's part of the opposition in all things. It's part of the human condition.
  10. The only way to healing for everyone involved is the same answer that has been given since the beginning of time. The answer is forgiveness. I've recently re-studied the story of Jonah. He was the prophet at the time and was a righteous man who loved his people. The city of Ninevah had offended and hurt his people in serious ways. The Lord commanded Jonah to preach to them. He couldn't. His heart was too hurt and he wanted justice. The Lord worked with Jonah (with the help of some sailors, a storm, and the belly of a whale) until he softened his heart enough to at least obey. Jonah returned to at least preach to Ninevah, remind them of their sins, and teach repentance. To Jonah's dismay, the people (his enemies), repented. His heart was again heavy and he isolated himself in despair. The Lord, helped Jonas see the sin that had entered his heart and asked him again if the people of Ninevah shouldn't be offered mercy. It's the same story here. There is lots of pain in between the gay community and the church. But there is only one cure. I suppose both sides could dig in their heals issuing all sorts of punishments waiting till the day of justice!... or to the bending of one another's will. But then...wouldn't that just procrastinate the day of our mutual healing? Mercy and forgiveness work better than the nursing of old wounds. It's always been that way and it always will ... regardless of how slow we are to learn the lesson.
  11. I'm with Anatess. It sounds like this man came into your life like a tornado. He wreaked a bunch of havac, and left your heart hanging in a tree. Let it go, dear sweet sister. Let him go...let IT go. Hand him to God. If there was revelation, it was between him and God anyway. Your only connection should be to the atonement. Your needs are known. Your brokenness and your crushing losses are known. God is a being of restoration!! It's one of the things He does best. Let it all go so there is room for all the next step blessings Father will bring to you. You may have lost a person and you may have lost his love, but you haven't lost love in general. There is enough of it in this abundant universe to bind and heal up your wounds, and to make you whole again. And if waiting for all that feels like waiting too long, Girl, go out and buy yourself some sexy girlie jean, get your hair done, and get out there and have some fun! Life is waiting for you. So get out there!
  12. I also want to say a big thank you to everyone who has contributed to this thread! SO many good comments and honest expressions. I really appreciate what you all have offered and am considering each respectively.
  13. Absolutely nothing! I want to make that clear. But I think this is the point.... that there ARE underlying barriers. My intension is to learn more about what those are for men without needing to pathologize. I'm sort of noodling over Applepansy's wish that her husband would understand that she feels all the things he needs her too feel regardless of whether or not she has an orgasm. I really want to understand more about what blocks this connection for the man even with her reassurances. I'm so grateful for her honesty that "it's still an issue" even with all of her efforts to explain her position (see!...another example where good communication happens but connection doesn't! Sorry...i'm beating this horse, arent' I? :) ) In reference to another post, I think women have been forced to hypersexualize themselves in order to be what the man needs her to be. Sometimes I think this looks like a more exploitative interaction, but more often than not, I think the woman is sincerely trying for the man even if it means going against herself to do it. I think the best interactions on the emotional plain or in the sexual arena are the ones that do follow the law of sacrifice for the marriage, but that don't require each to go against themselves to do it.
  14. Thanks for the book recommendation! I'll add it to the already tipping pile of books on my nightstand! In reference to your first amusing statement about men, I have to admit that this hurts me a little and makes me feel bad that men are often characterized or reduced in this way, even by themselves. It is my opinion and experience, that men are dynamic and complex and rich emotional creatures. Men may be fundamentally different, but no less intricate. I think these statements, while good humored and true enough to bring a smile, they do men and women a disservice. Trust me....men don't avoid emotions because they don't have them. Relationships are emotionally driven processes and men are just as fundamentally a part of the emotional landscape as the women. I'm just not sure any of us really understands the complete landscape. :)
  15. @ Classylady... Oh yes! Questions like this are essential. I think you are on to something important here. Talking about emotions on both sides IS an absolute essential in my view. It's easier to stay in intellectual dialogue and performance based analysis. It keeps us safe. Talking about emotions is more risky. It brings up a lot of fear and discomfort. And neither sex likes that. We often assume that women don't feel uncomfortable talking about emotions and it's just the men who avoid this. Trust me. Both men and women are dodging the vulnerability. Part of my goal in therapy and partly in this thread, is to find ways to understand men so that I can see the landscape of the minefield they experience. I think I get the female mine field! Since I've gotten stuck on my own land mines.
  16. Hi Apple! I really appreciate this post and I thank you for sharing some of your personal experience to help articulate something I've felt but couldn't say as well as you have here. I'm hoping more comment on this! There's a very respected therapist and author named Barry McCarthy. In his work, he says couples need to change their definitions of good sex. He advocates moving away from orgasm focused success into what he calls "good enough sex". While this perspective, i've noticed, doesn't seem that palatable at the first for men, the couples who "get it" find better ways to measure and end up enjoying sex and connection in broader ways. I like this because it helps to lessen sexual perfectionism. I suspect that helping couples let go of sexual perfectionism could be a portal to solving some of these impasses.
  17. I don't think I'd ever argue that there are no societal benefits. At least in terms of mormon doctrine on the subject, such an argument is beside the point.
  18. I think we need both the saving ordinances AND the sustaining ones equally. Earth life sucks. I need some help to..."with joy wend my way." I mean a baptism....it just doesn't get you through the lonely nights.
  19. FYI... Susan Johnson says that instead of communication, couples need Accessibility, Responsiveness, and Engagement. Approaches that are negotiation based or that are behavioral don't take these into account. I can fold the clothes AND buy the teddy and be very inaccessible at the same time. If you have those three, a whole host of imperfection and problems could be present and the couple will still feel great about the relationship. In her work, all three translate into the sexual arena as well. If there is connection, it wouldn't matter so much if sexual behavior was erotic enough. Both would be sexually accessible and responsive to each other. She compares "sealed off sex" vs. "synchronous sex"; the first being focused exclusively on sensations and quality of orgasm. I think couples have a lot of this kind of sex. And they wonder why they end up feeling unsatisfied or insecure in the relationship. Synchronous sex on the other hand, is about the whole package including all the emotional, spiritual, and erotic elements. It feels to me like a perfect blending of the yin and yang stuff and something that extinguishes the competition because both spouses can sort of feast on what they want and need. This is the gold standard, in the EFT world. You can have it regardless of style or preference or age or infirmity because it isn't focused on behavioral perfection. She also talks about "solace sex" too which about relieving anxiety and not the best for creating connection. It just acts like a sexual soother. The problem here is that people are often out of touch with the anxiety or the issues causing it. And I think they conclude that if sex feels good then it must be what they need to fix the not feeling good. Just thought I'd throw these concepts into the mix to see if this approach appeals to men more than demands to communicate more or to abandon their needs for sex. What do you think?
  20. Exactly! What do you do with that? I hate that message that men aren't suppose to need sex and sadly they do feel they get that message in therapy a lot!!! Yuck. Perhaps I'm a little confused. I do understand that men use sex as a barometer for the relationship. I hear that a lot and feel the importance. I become confused when I see the man conclude that because sex was good that everything else in the relationship is hunky dory and so he retreats. Wife feels kinda used and then abandoned. I guess I worry that the messages from women are being misinterpreted. I don't know that women fully comprehend where the man is coming from. Clearly we are missing it. Perhaps therapy has missed it too. But I'm struggling to see that emotional nurture isn't as important. And I think that I hear that men want and need a more dynamic interaction that just a sexual one too. So perhaps the sex only barometer does both sides a disservice. What I think to say is that it just can't be true that sex is a man's only need.
  21. It's interesting. I heard one just like this a couple of days ago. He has been cleaning and helping with the kids. He's been so good at it wife is feeling a little out done. :) He is doing this out of the best of intentions hoping that it will open his wife to having sex. His motivations are explicit. She on the other hand feels it's a quid pro quo and feels its a transaction she is obligated to complete. This shuts her down emotionally. She doesn't see this as foreplay the way he does. She fears that he'll punish her or criticize her for not "putting out" or not being loving, etc etc. So she gives in and has the sex but her heart isn't in it. And of course he hates that. I guess what I'm saying is that I agree that this dogma doesn't work all by itself. I'm really interested in what you said here. This seems consistent with cases I've worked on. And sometimes its true. Wife IS in fact withholding until she has a perfect husband. Now....this often happens when husband has acted out with an affair or porn. The perfection seeking is usually about protection or prevention of pain. Obviously there could be a lot going on in situations like this when infidelity isn't happening too. What I'm interested in is understanding men more so that the directives are more balanced to factor in the ways, needs, and processes of men. I don't want it to be such a contest where the female way always wins. And I'd like to make sure my practice is a man-friendly zone. And I'd like to learn how to create mutual victories. I hate it that men get the shaft in therapy. Yuck! (I guess I'm kind of commenting on Just A Guy's post as well.
  22. Well, we've been taught for a lot of years that communication is everything in marriage. And I don't disagree, necessarily. But I do think that this dogma is code for a negotiation style interchange where each party outlines their wants and needs and the expectation is that somehow if we talk about it, we will magically bond with each other. And the reality is that negotiation, while good and essential to problem solving efforts, its not the basis for deep bonding and rewarding intimate connection. At least that's not what the lastest research is saying. And I think I'm seeing evidence of that in my practice. Couples actually are trying incredibly hard to be what their spouses want. I have both men and women list all their really awesome efforts. And they still end up feeling disconnected, unseen, and wondering why they aren't bonding. I guess I'm making the case that communication is a great component of bonding process. But it's not everything. Some couples that are very bonded really don't communicate that much and they do very well together.
  23. Your aura is pulsing! Are you in the beyond???