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I’m not religious. What does that mean? I don’t do meditation, hang crystals, around, or fear the number 13? Perhaps. More to the point, though, is the message: I’m not sure if there is a god, and the question does not consume me. Often, this comment is made when the speaker realizes they are engaging a person who is religious. I’m such a person. I go to church more than once a week. I pray. I read the Bible. I seek God, even as I say I am already filled with his Spirit. Okay—I’m a minister. So, I often hear people say, “I’m not religious.” Sometimes—especially if I attempt even the most minor inquiry or pro-God statement, I’ll see a hand go up, and a quick, “To each his own.” That’s a wall—a boundary. It means, do not engage me in this topic. I’m not a judge. When it comes to spiritual matters my faith says that only God can judge. And, indeed, many “I’m not religious people” are bright, kind, honest, and diligent. To such people I have a question though. What if there really is a god? What if he does care? The Torah, the New Testament, the Qur’an, and even the Book of Mormon all teach that if one sincerely seeks after God she will find him. The corollary is obvious. If one does not seek after God He will not be found. At least not until the Final Day—that one where God makes himself known to all.

There is that which seeks to draw us out Out of our comfort zones And then which seeks to draw us in Shadow cast And sunlight dappled The forest steeped in green I love the gold-green of sun touched leaves Which lie darker in the shadows below And the soft rustle of leaves upon the breeze Aflutter on swaying boughs Mingled with the chirp and whistles of birds Which call from tree to tree It is here that I hear my God speak He who is natures God

Psychologist earn their keep. They do grueling work, usually 1:1, often seeing the ugliest that humanity has to offer. $90-130 per hour is dirt cheap, in my book. Considering that the car repair shop charges the same, I'll double down on my uber-respect for those in the counseling field. An interesting shift has taken place, however. Even 20 years ago, I can remember that most inmates did not want to see the psychologist. They were okay with us chaplains, though. Today the tables have turned. A recent poll indicated that 42% of those in Portland, OR are unaffiliated with any religion. 34% in Seattle, and 32% in San Francisco. This got me to thinking. People will spends years--sometimes decades--resolving psychological issues stemming from dysfunctional relationships with their parents. Again, this is time well spent. On the other hand, they balk at seeking a relationship with Father God. Too busy. Who knows/cares if there really is God? How can one know which religion is true? But really--the message is that they do not care to take the time to even begin such an inquiry. Ironic?

Three times a year I post a link to a guest talk I give at my home church. If you use firefox the link may not work well. Internet Explorer does. http://www.anglelake.org/resources/online-sermons/?sermon_id=291 GIVING UP LIFE’S RAGS FOR GOD’S RICHES Introduction: We love rags to riches stories. Americans believe in upward mobility—that we are not bound by our race or our social class.We really can become whoever we want to be.As Christians, we believe that we are children of God.We really can become all God intends us to be, regardless of where we came from, or what we’ve done in the past! Amen?Proposition: Jesus uses the worst to accomplish his best. Scripture: Matthew 1:3, 5; Luke 19:10; John 10:10; Romans 8:38-39; Jeremiah 29:10-14; Luke 4:16-21 Transition: If you’ve ever been called the lowest of the low, keep in mind that in Jesus’ own lineage were, not one, but two prostitutes! Jesus came from lineage that included two prostitutes. Matthew 1:3, 5: 3Judah the father of Perez and Zerah, whose mother was Tamar … 5Salmon the father of Boaz, whose mother was Rahab, The first committed a kind of incest, and the second was a traitor to her own people. Retell the story of Tamar. Gen 38 tells us that Tamar was Judah’s daughter in law. She married his first son, but he was wicked, so the Lord killed him. The second son took her, as was his duty and custom. However, he would not make her pregnant. The Lord was angry, and killed him. Then the father told her to live as a widow, for he feared that if his third child married her, he would die too. So, she dressed as a prostitute, and Judah hired her. When she became pregnant, and Judah was told, he ordered her executed. However, she provided proof he was the father, and he admitted that she was more righteous than he. Though that be true, and though she was surely a victim, the fact remains that she prostituted herself for a kind of incest. The fact also remains that she was an ancestor of Jesus, and scripture openly describes it. Retell the story of Rahab. In Joshua 2 – 6 Rahab is a prostitute in Jericho. Israel sends spies into the city, and Rahab helps them escape detection. Ultimately, because of her treason, she is spared. We might agree that she chose wisely in protecting God’s spies. Nevertheless, she was a prostitute and a traitor. She also became an ancestor of Jesus!Transition: God found no reason to withhold the story of these two prophets from us. Neither did he exclude them from the lineage of his Son. Would Jesus follow in his Father’s footsteps? What of the Apostles—all handpicked by Jesus? What If Jesus Used An Employment Service To Hire The Twelve Apostles Posted on January 21, 2012 by Reverend Fr. Jerome Kwasek To: Jesus, Son of Joseph, Woodcrafter’s Carpenter Shop, Nazareth From: Jordan Management Consultants, Sudan Interior, Nazareth Dear Sir: Thank you for submitting the resume’s of the twelve men you have picked for managerial positions in your new organization. All of them have now taken our battery of tests; and we have not only run the results through our computer, but also arranged personal interviews for each of them with our employment psychologist and vocational aptitude consultant. The profiles of all the tests are included, and you will want to study each of them carefully. It is the staff opinion that most of your nominees are lacking in background, education and vocational aptitude for the type of enterprise you are undertaking. They do not have the team concept. We would recommend that you continue your search for persons of experience in managerial ability and proven capability. Simon Peter is emotionally unstable and given to fits of temper. Andrew has absolutely no qualities of leadership. The two brothers, James and John, the sons of Zebedee, place personal interest above company loyalty. Thomas demonstrates a questioning attitude that would tend to undermine morale. We feel that it is our duty to tell you that Matthew has been blacklisted by the Greater Jerusalem Better business Bureau. James, the son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus definitely have radical leanings, and they both registered a high score on the manic depressive scale. One of the candidates, however shows great potential. He is a man of ability and resourcefulness meets people well, has a keen business mind, and has contacts in high places. He is highly motivated, ambitious and responsible. We recommend Judas Iscariot as your controller and right-hand man. All of the other profiles are self-explanatory. We wish you every success in your new venture. Sincerely Yours, Jordan Management Consultants Transition: Jesus might choose rough people to work with, but the church today isn’t like that, is it? The Maury Davis Story (from Regent University Chapel appearance)Maury Davis, senior pastor of Cornerstone Nashville in Tennessee, looks like a run-of-the-mill, ordinary preacher. He is neatly pressed, stacked with a bright smile and accompanying humor. But, to see Davis certainly isn't to know him. The crooked pinky on his left hand is the only hint from his former life, a permanent relic from his years spent as a drug dealer, a meth addict and a convicted murderer. …After committing what he described briefly as a "brutal, horrible" murder, Davis came head-to-head with pleading guilty for his crime. His family hired a lawyer, who told Davis plainly that he "didn't need an attorney" but "needed God." "I was terrified; I knew if an attorney was coming to talk to you about God, the next step would be the electric chair," said Davis. "And the city of Dallas could get you there." But then through his time in jail, God "came in like a flood" for Davis. He believes the hopeful people he met while incarcerated who loved God were "lights in the darkness," despite their life-sentences in prison. "God took the scales off of my eyes then," said Davis, who remembers his first few months as a born-again Christian. Through his experience, his family members also came to Christ. And though he still had 20 years to serve in prison, he said that God melted his heart of stone and gave him joy and radical redemption through it all. Davis has spent the latter part of his life proclaiming this news and encouraging his congregation to seek the Holy Spirit and to live life in full-throttle for Christ, as he continues to be living proof that "nothing can separate" anyone from the love of God.EPILOGUE FROM NASHVILLE, TN (WSMV) - (OCT 2014): A local pastor is opening up about his decision to hire the man convicted of killing former Grand Ole Opry star David “Stringbean” Akeman and Akeman's wife. John Brown will be released from prison soon after serving 40 years behind bars.When he's released, he'll have a job at Cornerstone Church.It may sound controversial, but Pastor Maury Davis is making no apologies, saying he's only doing what someone once did for him.Transition: What a story! Still, Davis’ troubles happened decades ago, and his far from here. How about something closer to us? What about me? Unchurched home In my circle of loved ones I saw alcohol abuse, drug abuse, divorce and suicide. In my ordination class 20 out of 40 were the children of ministers. 36 out of 40 grew up in strong Christian homes. I was one of the remaining four. During my teenage years the head of a political party told us Christians that the Pacific Northwest is the anti-Bible belt. So how does an unchurched kid, growing up around substance abuse and divorce, who lives in a part of the country that could care less about religion end up becoming a preacher? Transition: You might be thinking, “That’s okay for you preacher, but what about me?” What about you? Luke 19:10 "For the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost." Jesus sought you out. That is why you are finding God. He came save us, but for what? John 10:10: "The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly. Satan promises fun, freedom, and a sense of personal godhood. He delivers pain, incarceration, death, and the destruction of all we hope to accomplish. If we come under Christ’s protection will I be safe? Romans 8:38-39: 38For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Yes, you will be safe. Satan cannot separate us from God and his love. Transition: So what exactly is God offering me? God is offering restoration—normalcy with provision Jeremiah 29: 10This is what the Lord says: “When seventy years are completed for Babylon, I will come to you and fulfill my good promise to bring you back to this place. 11For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the Lord, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future. 12Then you will call on me and come and pray to me, and I will listen to you. 13You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart. 14I will be found by you,” declares the Lord, “and will bring you back from captivity.b I will gather you from all the nations and places where I have banished you,” declares the Lord, “and will bring you back to the place from which I carried you into exile.” God will bring us back to our citizenship. Israel was taken into captivity, but promised a return to the kingdom God established Likewise, we, who were captives to sin, can come to God’s church and his kingdom. We can be established, and regain hope for the future. Luke 4: 16He went to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, and on the Sabbath day he went into the synagogue, as was his custom. He stood up to read, 17and the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to him. Unrolling it, he found the place where it is written:18“The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to set the oppressed free, 19to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.”f 20Then he rolled up the scroll, gave it back to the attendant and sat down. The eyes of everyone in the synagogue were fastened on him. 21He began by saying to them, “Today this scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.” Jesus came to make the cooked paths of our lives straight. He came to transform us from sinners generating death to Christians demonstrating and offering life! CONCLUSIONS Jesus came from lineage that included both an incestuous prostitute and a traitorous one.Jesus chose to surround himself with leaders who had little that the world valued.Jesus turned a convicted murderer into a megachurch pastor, who in turned, is hiring a convicted murder to work for his church.Jesus took an unchurched kid from a no-account, godless neighborhood and made him a prison chaplain—and your speaker this morning!And now Jesus is coming for you.Jesus seeks you and will save you.Jesus will establish you in his kingdom.Jesus will free you, and give you vision.What is the meaning and purpose of life? To love God and obey him. Jesus has made the way.He says in John 14:6: "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.BOW FOR SINNER’S PRAYERIF YOU ARE READY TO ABANDON ALL EXCUSES…IF YOU ARE READY TO RECEIVE POWER FROM THE HOLY GHOST…IF YOU ARE READY FOR TO LIVE LIFE IN UNDER GOD’S DIRECTION AND FOR GOD’S GLORY … STAND WITH ME!

Perhaps the best answer to those who choose to live in sin, and loudly proclaim, "God made me this way!" is to ask, "Which is more important to ask, how you were made or WHO made you?" If the latter, then instead of insisting that our current status is optimal, maybe we should look to the Maker's "original factory settings?" Those can be found in The Instructions. And yes--they are included.

Dear Friends in Faith, No, I'm not asking who would win in a Father-Son arm wrestling match...but, it is my understanding that the LDS Church teaches that Jehovah and Elohim are separate individuals, namely, God the Son and God the Father, respectively. Is this true? If so, how do Mormons interpret verses such as Isaiah 43:10-11? "Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord [Jehovah or Yahweh], and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God [Elohim] formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour." In the King James OT, I am told that "the Lord" translates Jehovah [or Yahweh as it is more probably pronounced] and "God" translates Elohim. Thus, the above Scipture citation would seem to suggest that Yahweh and Elohim are the same entity. Indeed, Elohim, I have been taught, is just the generic Hebrew word for God or "the Divinities," so it would only make sense for the Israelites to say, "Yahweh is Elohim alone," just as a modern English speaker might say, "The Lord is the only God." Indeed, this is said explicitly in Deuteronomy 4:35, "Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the Lord [Jehovah or Yahweh] he is God [Elohim]; there is none else beside him." Therefore, how would a Mormon respond? Sincerely in Christ, Geoffrey

So I was reading in the Christian General Beliefs Board and came across this from Vort: I thought I’d open up a new topic in the LDS Gospel Discussion board to respond to it, as it really is a discussion of LDS beliefs, and also that thread was too long anyhow. Finally, the debate I intend may not have been appropriate there. I’d like to also add that I’m not necessarily arguing with Vort here. What he says is true. The implications are, perhaps, as he says, and he’s clear in the first paragraph that we don’t know (which is my entire contention). That being said: Concerning the doctrine, I find the self-effacing, “we’re sorry for our doctrine even among ourselves”, argument decidedly bothersome. That is to say, I do not find statements supporting this thinking very convincing, and logically, it makes little sense. Here’s the argument from the King Follet Discourse: The argument stems from this: “...what the Father did. The answer is obvious--in a manner to lay down his body and take it up again. Jesus, what are you going to do? To lay down my life as my Father did, and take it up again.” And “What did Jesus do? Why, I do the things I saw my Father do when worlds came rolling into existence. I saw my Father work out his kingdom with fear and trembling, and I must do the same; and when I get my kingdom I shall present it to my Father so that he obtains kingdom upon kingdom, and it will exalt his glory. And so Jesus treads in his tracks to inherit what God did before. It is plain beyond disputation.” This implies that the Father did just the same as Jesus, and therefore must have been a Savior himself, sinless, perfect, etc... But also in the discourse we read: “Here, then, is eternal life--to know the only wise and true God. And you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves--to be kings and priests to God, the same as all Gods have done--by going from a small degree to another, from grace to grace, from exaltation to exaltation, until you are able to sit in glory as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power.” We also have plenty of scriptural and other sources that talk about us following the Savior and doing as He did, etc… So here’s where the logic doesn’t work for me. If we must become gods, the same as all gods have done, the same as Jesus has done, the same as God the Father has done, then we would, according to the above, all have to be Saviors, perfect, sinless, etc... We know this is not true. We are to do to be the same as the Savior, and the Atonement allows for this to happen. If it works in that direction, then could it not reasonably work up the chain too? In other words, could not the idea of, “doing the things my father did” be as symbolic as our following of the Savior. Literally we cannot be like the Savior, but we can be “like” the Savior. We also know that with the atonement our sins are washed clean. How does this apply to us but would somehow be inappropriate for God the Father? Don’t get me wrong. I’m not arguing that God was a sinner, or that he wasn’t a Savior. What I’m arguing is that IF He was a sinner, and IF he wasn’t a Savior, wherein does the doctrine of exaltation cause a problem for us in that regard? How does that diminish his perfection now? I can see that being a problem with other Christian theologies, but they think the whole idea of man becoming a god is blasphemy. If we can progress from principle to principle until we become perfect, wherein do our previous sins play a role? Will we somehow be less perfect, less glorious, less honored? Will our eternal posterity, our worlds without number, have less respect for us because at one time, in our blip of mortality, we made mistakes? The logic just doesn’t work out for me. I do not deny, in any regard, that God may have lived a sinless life like the Savior. But the whole point of making that kind of an argument is to somehow apologize for our belief that we can become like God. As I understand it, and as the King Follett Disc. speaks to, the order of exaltation will always give glory upward. God will have all the glory from all of His works, and all of the works that all of his exalted children work, and so forth. The same for anyone who becomes exalted. We will have glory from our works, and from the works of our posterity, onward forever. Am I wrong? God having been through the mortal experience and having repented of imperfections and having been atoned through the same process as us would not, logically, diminish his glory. And he would give all his glory to His Father, who gives all His glory to His Father, and onward. In short, I would contend that, doctrinally speaking, the appropriate argument would be that we just don’t know. I could go on, but...well, there’s a start. Have at it.

I was recently introduced to the Mormon church through a good friend of mine recently. Not knowing that they were Mormon's my wife to be and I were invited to church with them. Having grown up in the CM&A and planning on planting a new church roots in the local Bapist church I was always willing to goto church with someone. After the church service my wife to be and I were totally shocked. At what we had just heard, that being said...I attempted to keep an open mind and not knowing much I started to do some research on the Mormon and LDS churches. As I learned more I became quite troubled.... Basically my question boils down to this... How does the LDS church resolve conflicts between it's beliefs and what the Bible teaches us. If one accepts the Bible as the Word of God, when teachings of the church conflict with the Bible both can't be right, therefore I am curious as to how the church reconciles it's beliefs with the Word of God. I do have quite a list of issues my research has lead me to believe is conflicting so I am willing to discuss them one by one... Therefore lets start with the first one in Genesis. How can the Mormon church believe that if Adam & Eve hadn't sinned and committed the first sin, and therefore the fall of man kind we wouldn't be here today ? When that's CLEARLY not what the Bible teaches ?

Thanks to everyone for your sincere answers to my previous questions. This one is where the scholars get to put on their thinking caps. In Ezekiel 28 1-19 who are the Prince and King of Tyre prophecied about?

Hi there, my name is Tim and I am a newbie. I am a sincere and devout Christian but I'm not a member of the LDS Church. I have the utmost respect for the character of those who are part of the LDS Church. I feel members of the LDS are some of the most kind, moral, and upstanding individuals in the world. What you do with your families and communities is beyond reproach. I have many friends who are members of the LDS and care for them deeply. I have read, studied, researched, and written about the LDS Church and doctrine as I understand them for a number of years. I have many issues in reconciling LDS doctrines with what I'm taught in the Bible. My studies thus far have been limited to documentation and books written by LDS leaders and apologists along with the typical anti-Mormon rhetoric. I am continually seeking for truth and I feel I still have much to learn. My reason for being here is to make more friends, ask questions, and to learn more about the basis of the LDS doctrine. I'm not here to attack or reproach anyone nor do I come with any kind of arrogant attitude. I sincerely want to learn. And, perhaps I can share some of the information I have garnered through the Holy Spirit in my research and study. God bless each of you, and I hope you will accept me as I am, a sincere, caring, and interested friend.

I've been rather low faith wise lately. It's not because I don't believe in God. It's because I don't trust Him anymore. He seems to have ignored my pain. I would prefer not to go into details about that. Hence all of the advice I've gotten hasn't really resonated with me. I've gotten the SPA (standard Primary answers) from people I've discussed this matter with, but those require some trust in God. So does anyone have advice on learning to trust God again?

I need to talk to someone about this in a more neutral environment. I am a life long member. My family is a good family. We had FHE weekly. My parents went to the temple weekly. I graduated from Seminary only missing maybe 5 days in four years of seminary. I went to church college. I served a mission. I got married in the temple to a woman I love. I have children. Served in stake positions such as High Council. I attend church weekly even when on vacation (usually but not always). I love the church. I love the members. I love the gospel. I am temple worthy (more on this in a moment). (the above is not to toot my horn but to provide background) In all this (with the exception of one time which I will explain in a moment) I thought or I do (dilemma) have a testimony. Over the past years, my logical mind (I will call it that because I'm not sure how else to define it) has come to the conclusion that there is no god and thus by extension do not believe the church is true. This scares me. I don't not want to believe in God. I don't not want to believe in the Book of Mormon or Joseph Smith. I don't not want to believe that President Monson is a prophet of God. Over the past few years though these feelings come into my head and I don't know what to do. After years of struggling I made a mistake and hurt my wife. I started trying caffeinated (i know that isn't necessariy a big deal but I've grown up with out such things) drinks, R Rated movies, and coffee. One day when out with my wife I talked her into taking a drink (this was insanely dumb-I'm not sure why she did it accept she trusts/ed me). Of course after the fact I needed to tell her why. If anything I should have told her first. So I told my wife that I no longer believed in God (this may have been a mistake). At first she was extreamly angry (I don't blame her) and for a night or two there wan't much sleeping and lots of (lets say) discussion. It seemed I may loose her and if her I would lose my family. Finally I told her that I did not want to loser her and that there is a testimony left, that I do believe. With her help I had myself released from my (not to put it in a worldly terms) substantial calling with the Bishop's full knowledge of the above. At times she still will suddenly get upset and teary eyed and talk about her desire for an eternal marriage (which I want as well). I tell her that I still believe but the doubts are still there. Soon my Temple Recommend will expire and I don't know how to proceed. Like I said, I don't not want to be a member. I don't not want to have a temple recommend. I want an eternal marriage. But these doubts keep entering my head. I pray here and there but I don't feel anything there, like I'm talking to myself. This has been one of the biggest parts of my doubts. I "feel the spirit" when at church when talking about people's stories of faith. When at church or talking to people I think how can I deny this when I feel these things. But these feelings of "logical" thought and my doubts continue to return--strongly. I really don't know what to do. I felt like I needed to talk with people in a place like this. Any thought, comments, questions would be appreciated. Thank you.

I thoroughly enjoyed the Saturday afternoon session. As I watched and listened to the inspired messages the following points stuck out in my mind: 1. The love of God does not supersede His laws or commandments. 2. God's anger and wrath are not contrary to His love, but are an evidence of His love. 3. God's love is contingent upon obedience to His laws and commandments. 4. Real love does not support destructive behavior. 5. Without God there would be no immortality or eternal life. 6. The way to know the truth of God is through the Holy Ghost. 7. We should always give that best that we can in our service to the Church and to our fellow man. 8. God still speaks to man today. The Heavens are not closed. 9. Temperance is a Divine attribute of Jesus Christ. 10. Being temperant means examining our desires and expectations. A temperant person is a person of increased spiritual strength. 11. Repentance is turning away from some things, turning towards other things, and returning towards God. 12. Our Heavenly Father's loving arms are outstretched still.

Hello. Tonight I had a conversation with a fellow lds.net user. I will not give the name. I wish to post the emails we exhanged. I expressed my opinions on the questions this person brought up. It lead to an interesting conclusion on my view of the church and religion all together. I still want to be a member of the church and follow most of the teachings. My true feelings came out and it may be upsetting to other members. I apologize if that is the case. I'd be interested on other peoples take on what transpired. Thanks. :) --------------------------- lds.net user: Do you believe everything Joseph Smith taught about God the father? me: Hello, No, I don't believe everything that Joseph Smith taught. lds.net user: so why do you call him a prophet of God if you don't believe everything he taught in his sermons? me: The LDS church calls him a prophet of God. I've never personally called him a prophet. He may be correct in some teachings and wrong in others. He makes mistakes like everyone else who has ever lived with the exception of Jesus Christ. lds.net user: Sir how could you not agree with all of his teachings, the LDS church calls him a true prophet of God right? What prophet of God ever made mistakes because they aren't like you and me me: I can answer your question with a broader answer. The LDS church claims to be the only true restored church on Earth today. I don't think there is a church that has 100% of all the facts correct. As long as I accept Jesus Christ into my Heart and try to live a good life, I should probably be granted everlasting life in heaven. I'm a member of the LDS church because I've found it to be the one I'm most comfortable with. lds.net user:How do we know if someone is truly a prophet of God? and also are there Biblical guidelines for testing someone claiming to be a prophet? me: I recently listened to an evangelical talk about how one can tell if a person is truly a prophet of God. They stated a question. "What is the prophet's track record in foretelling the future?" Hopfully the prophet should be correct all the time. Joseph Smith was not right all the time. I'm not well versed in the Bible, so I'll unable to give you any biblical references about prophets. My advice is to continue to do research and pray about what is pondering in your heart. You will recieve an answer. lds.net user: So sir you've just stated yourself that Joseph Smith wasn't always right yourself. And I'll give you one example of a Biblical text that clearly states what a true Prophet of God is. Deut 13, verses 1-3, Israel was warned about false prophets who would try to lead them after strange gods. If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them; Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul. (Deut. 13:1-3) So sir by biblical standards Joseph Smith was a false Prophet. I'd also like to pose the question to you have you ever asked yourself what the Bible says about seeing what is true and how to do that? and also what does the Bible say about trusting in your own heart? These are serious things to ask yourself because by what you've said and by what the Bible says you are believing in a False God by what Joseph Smith is teaching and you as a Mormon will be judged according the the standards of the Bible. So this subject should dearly matter to you sir. all paths don't lead to heaven. I'm only trying to ask questions and reavel what the Bible teaches and what truths aren't taught to you in the Mormon Church. I pray that you would be willing to ask some quesitons yourself for Joseph Smith is clearly teaching against what God explicitly taught in the Bible and there are sever consequences to pay for following another God me: You have a good point there. I did mention earlier that I did accept Jesus Christ into my Heart. I know the bible warns us that there will be false prophets. They will decieve the elect. I can trust in those teachings. Other things in the Bible I don't believe in. One example is the great flood. I believe there was a massive flood. I don't believe it covered the entire earth and all of God's Animals and plants were on an Ark. To be totally honest with you, I have thoughts on several religions being accepted by God. Christianity, budism, new-agers, muslims, all worship the "one source" of God. It depends on what you believe. I have chosen Christianity even though it may not be perfect. lds.net user:Sir let me ask you this. Why did God give us the Bible? me: God has given man teachings to help us understand Him and what he expects of us. The Bible is one example. The Quran is another example. Many teachings were givien to man thousands of years ago. Through out time, these teachings have been translated. I'm sure many are out of context of the original teaching. This was done by man by his own failings or gain. Diferent cultures wanted to have the teachings to meet what they expected. That is why there is such diversity in religion. Unfortunatly, these different belief systems have caused wars and will continue to. I think we should respect any persons belief system and not judge them. lds.net user: So your going to say that God gave us the quran? on what basis do you have to say such a blasphemous thing? And with your other comment your willing to doubt the sufficeny of God in the ways that he gave us his word in the Bible? me: God gave us teachings. Man compiled the Bible, Quran, and other written works that other religions read. That's my belief simply stated. If you feel I'm going to Hell for what i believe in that's okay with me. End on conversation. lds.net user: Sir I'm only asking questions please don't assume judgment. I am being sincere and care about you. Don't feel I'm trying to tear you down or anything by no means is that the case sir. I'll let you be and pray about words of encouragment for you. Have a wonderful evening and I look forward to talking more me: With your permission, i'd like to post our entire conversation in the forum section. I will not use your name. I'm sure many members would be surprised in what my take on religion is. thanks the user did not respond about permission. Since I did not use the name, I felt it would be ok to post this.

Let me see if I understand the LDS beliefs on this topic correctly: Human beings were born in heaven as the son or daughter of a god and goddess before they were born physically here on earth. Being born into this life here on earth is something that we agreed to in heaven. This life serves as a test and a means of obtaining exaltation one day to godhood. One achieves exaltation by living a life of obedience to Mormon teaching and practices. Those exalted to godhood will inhabit a planet and procreate spirit children. A supporting quote from Brigham Young would be this: "the Lord created you and me for the purpose of becoming Gods like himself...We are created to become Gods like unto our Father in heaven.” (Journal of Discourses, 3:93) So, having that all being said (and if I'm wrong, please correct me), how does the Mormon Church interpret Isaiah 43:10?

The Bible says that there is ONLY ONE GOD (Deuteronomy 6:4). However, section 132 of Doctrine and Covenants says that "men may become gods". So which is correct? Well, section 132 of Doctrine and Covenants was written later when Smith wanted to teach Mormons to marry multiple wives. Here he added that in the next life those who followed this new covenant would become gods: "Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them." Doctrine and Covenants 132:20. And what does God say will happen to those who would add to His word or take away from it... "For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book." -Revelation 22:18,19 "ADD thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar." -Proverb 30:6 Many people today question the Bible's veracity. Do you honestly believe that God does not have the power to preserve His Word from a wicked generation? "The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, THOU SHALT PRESERVE THEM FROM THIS GENERATION FOR EVER." -Psalm 12:6,7 Know ye not that the word of God endureth forever? Where do you think the word of God was before false prophet Joseph Smith came along? Hidden? Nay, it cannot be destroyed! "For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: 1:25 But THE WORD OF THE LORD ENDURETH FOR EVER. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you." -1st Peter 1:24 So which is correct? The answer is the Bible. Joseph Smith added to God‘s word; thus, he was a liar. You see, if the teachings of the Mormonism are correct now, then they were clearly wrong from 1830 until about 1842 when they thought that there was only one God and that God was not once a man. But if they were correct from 1830 to about 1842, then they are wrong now because Mormon doctrine says that there are many gods (Doctrine and Covenants 132) and that God progressed from once being a man. But from 1 Corinthians 14:33 we learn, "For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints." This confusion of Mormon doctrine should make any thinking person wonder about the reliability of the rest of it's teachings. So then how can you know for sure that you are saved? The Bible says that salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ and not of works. There is no amount of good works or ceremonies that you can do to save your soul because salvation is a gift. “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast” Ephesians 2:8-9 I’ll say it again, salvation is a gift available for all who simply believe in Jesus Christ. Salvation is sure because it is a gift. Whereas, if it is a matter of works, then no one can be sure of being saved. We see in Acts 16:30-31 where the jailer asked Paul and Silas, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.” Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ alone and you will without a shadow of a doubt be saved. “These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life...” 1 John 5:13

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