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  1. In Doctrine and Covenants 27, it reads: 3 Wherefore, a commandment I give unto you, that you shall not purchase wine neither strong drink of your enemies; 4 Wherefore, you shall partake of none except it is made new among you; yea, in this my Father’s kingdom which shall be built up on the earth. Why wouldn’t God take the opportunity to tell Joseph at this time about the Word of Wisdom, rather than to start making their own wine? The Word of Wisdom was revealed three years later.
  2. Hey everybody, im a convert to the church, I joined about nine months ago. From the time I joined the church there was a girl in young women's with me who I idolised because she had also joined the church as a teenager, but then found out she was breaking the word of wisdom often. This I found out from a mutual friend who told me, not knowing that I didn't know. I was quite shocked when I was told, but it made a lot of sense. A few months earlier I was told by Elders I know in our ward that there were photos of her on the internet drinking. I don't know who showed them but someone did. I spent a lot of time defending her to these Elders and the following missionaries as well, as I didn't know. The thing is, this girl is planning on getting endowed next month as she is prepairing to go on her mission! I know this is an awful idea. She hasn't repented for breaking the WoW as she doesn't think it's that bad, and the only parts of it she didn't break were the tea and coffee. I don't know what I'm suppose to do now. I don't want to seem judgemental when I ask her, but I don't know where the line is between judging and being concerned. My other friend who is a convert has talked to her about it and what she usually says is "I have been in the church longer than you so I know more about this" and then exits the conversation. I'm not a snitch or anything so I really am torn here. I have no idea what to do. I don't even have a idea on what to do. So if anyone has any options on what to do that would be well appreciated. thanks a million
  3. A little background: My husband is a convert. He joined in 2008, served an LDS mission, and we have been married since his return (2011). We have 2 daughters here on earth and 1 angel in heaven. He has been lying and drinking behind my back for the past six months and I finally confronted him. He's not sorry for drinking and breaking his covenants, or for being unworthy of the priesthood. He doesn't really want to change. He's only sorry for how it has made me feel, and has said just that. It feels like everything church related has been for me, to get me. I wouldn't date him cause he wasn't mormon. He became mormon. I wanted to marry a returned missionary. He became one. I thought no one would do that just to be with me, but currently, it sure feels like he did all that just for me. Which is never what I wanted. So in addition to having the burden of doing everything gospel related in the home, I also feel like it's my own fault. He lied to me for 6 months. He doesn't feel like he needs to talk to the bishop, or stop drinking, since he isn't addicted. But he'll do those things if I want him to. I told him I don't want him to do it for me. That he needs to do it because he wants to, not for me, and that until he gets there he should do what he wants. But despite all this, he says he has a testimony. He also got really angry at me and said what have I done for the church, since I didn't go on a mission and he did. Where do we go from here? Counseling? Divorce? Who can I turn to? Who can I tell? I feel all alone. And that I am failing everyone around me.
  4. My husband is a convert of 4 years, in his late 40’s, and has always struggled with addictions. Nothing serious. He finally quit smoking 8 years ago, and drinking alcohol 4 years ago. Or so I think. The thing is, he’s pretty secretive, and I have found receipts in random places showing he’s bought coffee or alcohol. Each step of the way in his progression of the church, he’s been heavily persuaded to move forward. (Not by me) I found a receipt for Bourbon in our garage (he’s not that good at destroying the evidence) a few months after him being baptized, which made me realize just how hard it will be for him to really quit his vices. He was broken up when I confronted him about it. I told him he needed to talk to the Bishop about it, which he did, and they postponed his receiving the Melchezidek priesthood. Just when I think all’s well, I’m delivered a blow. After our sealing 2 years ago, I found a brown paper bag with a whiskey receipt. I felt sick to my stomach because I thought he was better. And the fact that he lied to me is what ticks me off the most. The lies. He admits he’s imperfect but he does have a testimony. I just don’t know what to do. We’re supposed to renew our temple recommends and I’m 99% sure he’s still drinking coffee. I’ve even driven by him at a coffee drive-thru and he texted me he ordered a “hot chocolate”. Yeah right. He just won’t tell me the truth. Even when I say I won’t be mad, he stonewalls me. Am I making a big deal of nothing? Should I tell our Bishop when we have our interviews? Or is this his business? It’s just so disappointing. I always go to the temple with my mom or sisters because I feel like it’s a lie if I go with him.
  5. Hi all- hoping for some advice and I'll start with background info- I'm a new member that has struggled with the WOW and investigated the church when I met my BF(now husband) -When we met my husband also struggled with WOW and was a somewhat-repentant struggling RM. Basically I got baptized a year later and then we got civilly married. Once we were married it was hard, because my husband has been breaking the WOW while I was preparing for my baptism. So our problems stemmed from basically falling in love when neither of us were temple worthy. When we first started dating I was not a member and wanted to have sex with him, he caved in soon-so he had to repent for that and we stopped for awhile before we got married so he could Get back his priesthood. (Didn't have it before me for a little while-either) I didnt know about temple covenants and the importance of the law of chastity, WoW and the PH until I really started investigating before I got baptized. Flash forward and we have been married and we're both breaking the WOW for some time. Basically my husband is a good guy with a tough background and I'm also here as a result of difficult circumstances- but I just really really struggled. At the beginning of the year my husband started talking to his ex gf a lot because she broke the law of chastity and wanted a friend. But he had just finally started to clean up his act with the wOW and was waiting for me to do that too.. I've never been to the temple or gotten my blessing because I was just too sad and focused on our problems -didn't know to use the gospel to help us. And I think he was really depressed. Basically they started talking all the time and I found her to be fantasizing about my husband, literally. And meanwhile he wanted a divorce-but Didnt begin the process because he didn't have enough money to move out and his own car at the time. Blah. So I'm really being neglected at this point, ignoring all the guys that want my attention and I'm just having faith things will work out. He wasn't perfect but was expecting me to change instantly when I've already changed so much. The church IS for me and I'm a completely different person now- but obviously have a lot to do to improve my life. My husband is always mad, unhappy with me etc but uses me financially. I was too quiet about our problems in the beginning of our marriage, and now that he was really not approving of me, it was a little late to change his thinking about what he wanted. So he moves out on me finally before our one year anniversary and we keep fighting. he still needs me to take him to work, meanhwile he's emotionally invested in his ex gf and he repentance process trying to "help her" - but she as trying to visit him from out of state- coming to literally visit him only, and started telling him about her high sex drive and crap. Mind you- this girl is completely irrelevant to me, not cute and a total loser wanting attention- but I started to feel really angry that he was liking all her attention- since I was always focused on what I was doing wrong and not what he was doing to make things harder. So a few months ago I've been starting to move and I'm now out of state. I am here trying to get some space and hell myself by saving money. I visited him a few times and it's been good when I first arrive- but the closer I get To leaving town- he starts showing disapproval and how much he wants things to be over. I'm on a rollercoaster in our marriage. Always holding hope until recently- but now I'm mad I didn't just get an annulment. I love him more than anyone in the world and wanted to be sealed. It just has been tough for me as a new member never having the PH in our house and seeing how he handled things. I definitely should've just kept my baptismal covenants... but here is where my question lies. About 3 months ago (he moved out before this) I was visiting him, and was raped by a stranger. Long story but in the end, my husband ignored me and didn't talk to me for a month after that because of our marriage problems. He blocked me on Facebook too. That really hurt. Then he finally called me saying he had been praying, I went and saw him for 2 months and helped him with $$ and everything, but a few weeks ago when I was about to leave again, he started to be a jerk and saying he doesn't want to be married. I get out of town to where I'm staying and AGAIN he started ignoring me, going as far on thanksgiving to block me again on Facebook and then block me on the phone because I was telling him let's get this divorce- I don't want to be married to someone that doesn't know how to love uncondiontially when he makes mistakes and bad choices too. Basically im at a point now where I feel so far away from him and have no hope. We aren't in the divorce process yet because he's broke! So I'm stuck in this marriage and just decided last week to start hanging out with some guys and getting to know other people. But this guy ended up kissing me the other day and I'm really frustrated because I know I should have just been more careful and avoided being alone with anyone again. esoecially after having an adult male stranger sexually assault me months ago.. but I just wish that I had avoided that situation because even though nothing really happened I can feel that I don't want to be in that position again. I'm meeting with my bishop tonight. But I'd appreciate any insights into my situation and what to do. I want to stay married to my husband but he's just unhappy with himself so we aren't even talking. I feel alone and need to turn to God and get myself to the temple but it's definitely hard and I feel guilty for allowing myself to try hanging out with members of the opposite sex and not preventing an advance on me. I know from here I won't be spending any time with any men anymore, but I could use any advice and thoughts in this subject matter. Our separation has been going on for almost a year now but obviously there have been periods of trying to work on things and we have only been living separately for 6-7 months. Sorry for such a long story but this is hard- I love God and I just want a better relationship with him and myself. But don't know what to do about my marriage anymore. Stay strong and have more patience or push for the divorce to happen faster? Thank you for any input.
  6. Perhaps because the "should the WOW be updated" thread is still fresh on my mind, and a small part of that mentioned tea and coffee, this news story from the Daily Universe (BYU's newspaper) suggests that BYU's ROTC program will move across town to UVU, and a big part of the impetus to move is because BYU will not grant Col. Hardy (assigned by the DoD to head BYU's ROTC detachment) a coffee exception. I'm not sure what to think. Moving the ROTC across town is not really a big deal. The commute is short. I'm not sure what goes into moving these facilities. I have to think this isn't the first time this has come in up in the long history of ROTC at BYU, and I don't know how this has been handled in the past. I would not be too surprised if past non-LDS have signed the honor code, and had their coffee at home without telling anyone (which doesn't quite seem the spirit of signing and honor code). Any reactions? Is BYU being too stubborn? Who cares?
  7. This seems to be a pretty common thread here. But none of them that I found were my situation. And I'm riddled with anxiety about this. I was raised in the church, not super strong, but i grew up going to church and never thought I'd be facing this trial. Never thought I'd mess up this badly. My boyfriend (convert) and I broke the law of chastity. We did not go all the way, but I don't know if that matters at all, we've gone pretty far. We haven't done anything in about six months now. And I want to get back into going to church, the problem is I feel guilty about being there. I feel unworthy. I know I need to repent if I want to marry my boyfriend in the temple someday relatively soon, and I do, more than anything. I'm scared of what my bishop will make me do, I don't want to sound whiny, I know this was my mistake and I need to take whatever consequences come. I'd just like to know what I'm in for. Will i be excommunicated? Will he make me tell my parents? (I'm 23) How long will we have to wait? (I know this depends on a lot of things but will it be a year or more?) I'm also petrified to talk to him, it's very embarrassing, and the fact I have to tell this middle aged man what I've done is hard for me to swallow. I know the bishop is there to help you along the path to repentance but part of me thinks that this should be just between me and God. Does that make any sense? Thanks for any help. I know this is a hard question to answer as every situation is different.
  8. Hey, I always wanted to ask this question: is it okay to use little amounts of caffeine (25 mg, amount found in coke)? I keep the word of wisdom, I TRY. but I'm a student...a very exhausted student who needs more energy to focus and concentrate on what needs to be done. I have drank coffee in the past but I no longer use it because I really want to keep the word of wisdom. Since coffee is not allowed, am I still allowed to use caffeine? Like straight up caffeine powder or caffeine pills? I only use 25 mg because anything above that makes me anxious and jittery, but I need it to focus. It's so hard to not get sleepy while studying....
  9. I'm a nevermo from a background where I was exposed to many LDS friends (outside of idaho, utah, or arizona, no less). I've met with missionaries multiple times and read/prayed about the BOM, but never received any spiritual confirmation or feelings on the matter. I do, however, have a weird, random affinity with the WoW. Whenever I have gone to sacrament meetings, it's always brought up, even if it wasn't a planned subject. It's common for me to go to church and hear, "We were going to talk about X, but stuff happened so we're talking about the WOW today." My lifestyle is pretty opposite to the Wow, other than my appreciation of bread. I'm addicted to coffee (have at least 2 strong cups a day), I like a beer or glass of wine to unwind after work, legally smoke cannabis to get sleep, and every year or two partake in illegal party drugs and smoke cigarettes. I was reflecting on my health and the direction it was going, and thought it would be a great idea to try following the WoW to the letter for a month for non-spiritual reasons, then seeing how I feel. This would include things like using meat sparingly (I was thinking of being vegetarian at home, but eating some meat during holiday get-togethers and extended family dinners) , incorporating more seasonal veggies and fruits I wouldn't otherwise eat, and the "classic" no alcohol/coffee/tea/drugs. Are there any suggestions or "words of wisdom" you might have for me before I start? How do you feel about a non-LDS person living the WoW?
  10. What’s the theological difference between cough medicine, with its high alcohol content, and medical marijuana? There seems to be a willingness to use cough medicine and a reluctance to use marijuana, even though some of the medical profession now seem to be willing to prescribe marijuana.
  11. I know about the Word of Wisdom. But I am curious about many things. I know we don't use caffeine or any other harmful substances that may harm our bodies as our bodies are Temples and are sacred. But what does the Church say about Herbal Tea? No caffeine. What if there's a tea that has good effects on the body? Ginseng, Red Ginseng, Rosea, and many other teas have health benefits. I am assuming that the church is saying not to consume teas with caffeine (green and white teas have a little flouride which is harmful), but what about other teas? Also, I want to ask you if Supplements are allowed in the church. I could not find any reference about taking supplements in the church. I had depression. and I had psychiatrist and psychologist. They have prescribed my Zoloft, and Flouxetine (a long time ago). I found out about this stuff and it's even more harmful for the body during prolonged use and brain as the updated news have confirmed it through scientific research. I asked my doctor about it and he confirmed that there are many side effects on these antidepressants! So I got off it. Now, I still had depression, but when I started to research about alternative medicine, I tried L-tyrosine, 5HTP, Mucuna Pruriens, Vitamin C, and other supplements....I've never felt any better! It works for me! I don't think these supplements are harmful unless taken in excess (anything in excess can be harmful), but I'm curious...what does the LDS Church say about taking supplements too?
  12. So, there's these neuro drinks that have a bunch of different flavors. There's the sonic (that gives you energy), bliss, and I think sleep is one of them too. I've had them every so often, and I usually have the sonics because that gives me more energy and I'm able to be more focused. I don't have them everyday, but I just got one of them from the grocery store this morning, and it wasn't until now that I looked at the ingredients. One of the ingredients it L-Theanine (L-TeaActive), so I looked it up. It said that L-Theanine is an ingredient in tea that comes from the tea-leaf, and I was wondering that since that's in it, it might be against the word of wisdom (the word of wisdom is where members of the LDS church are encouraged not to drink tea, coffee, beer, or anything that can take away our free agency). Are the Neuro drinks against the word of wisdom?
  13. I have heard it said many times that the hot drinks mentioned in the Word of Wisdom refer to coffee and tea. Alright, except... WHO said that though? And when? I have looked in many books now (although to be fair, none that are specifically focusing on the Word of Wisdom) and I keep hearing the same thing repeated over and over that hot drinks are authoritatively interpreted to mean coffee and tea. But they never ever give a source for this!! This is getting very frustrating now and I'm beginning to think that the hot drinks supposedly referring to coffee and tea is just another Mormon myth. If a very large one. Does anyone have a source for hot drinks authoritatively being interpreted to mean coffee and tea? Because the only thing I did find (which wasn't much) was one thing on Fair Mormon here: But I don't have the book to check its source either!
  14. While browsing through some old threads, I came across someone posting about the discomfort from her garments. While I believe it unfortunate that thread ended badly, I did not see any comments about what I call the “Everyday Spiritual Experience from Covenants”. When I put on my garments in the morning I see it as much more than a reminder of my temple covenants. I recognize that while getting dressed, the Lord is with me. I just had a spiritual experience getting dressed in the morning. And while this may seem almost absurd to many, I get a similar spiritual experience going to the bathroom. When I go by the break room several times a day at work and see the coffeemaker or smell the coffee or even going by someone’s desk while they have a cup of joe, I’m not just reminded of a covenant. I have a spiritual experience. I don’t spend my time criticizing others for drinking a body and mind destroying substance. I am considering that walking around the office is a chance to be reminded that the Lord is part of every aspect of my life, even eating and drinking. I sit down at a restaurant and consider what drink I’m going to have with my meal and I skip over the alcoholic section and I realize that the Lord is having dinner with me. As I write an email or other communication, I try not to use vulgar language. Writing an email is a spiritual experience. If I believe that the Word of Wisdom is merely our health code, I’m missing out on an important aspect of what it means to be under a covenant with the Lord. If I see the temple garments as “chastity armor”, not only do I find that pretty ineffective, but I am missing out on the aspect of a connection with Deity. As evidence, I see the promise of the Word of Wisdom. Not only will we have greater health, but “the destroying angel will pass (us) by” and we shall have “great treasures of knowledge, even hidden treasures.” It occurred to me that over the past four years, I’ve found so many statements by so many non-member sources of varying levels of respect/animosity towards us that they often admit two things about Mormons: 1) They are honest and kind people with good family values. 2) They tend to be very smart people. I believe there are more blessings we receive each day than we really pay attention to.
  15. Is it in avoiding excess? Saying plain "No"? When it was revealed wasn't a commandment, was a suggestion, later made a law by other Prophet. I think it is interesting to discuss this, for example, my mom (no LDS) never drinks, but she allows a glass of wine maybe three times a year, she isn't an alcoholic, which is what most members believe when it comes to alcohol. Cigarettes and drugs are ABSOLUTE NO'S, but tea and coffee are being debated today.
  16. I recently married a non-member. He has been taking the missionary discussions and has even set a goal date for baptism. I can't tell you how thrilled I am! However, he is struggling in keeping the Word of Wisdom. Some background on us. I grew up in the LDS church but fell away for a period of years. During this time, I met my now husband, and while I wasn't keeping the Word of Wisdom myself very well, I couldn't very well be hypocritical and ask him to work on his problems, which were much more addictive than mine. We recently moved to my home town which has brought so many blessings in our lives. I found the church again and my conviction to be the best me I can be and strengthen my relationship with my Heavenly Father has been stronger than it ever had been growing up. And thankfully, my wonderful husband has begun to find the truth for himself as well. The missionaries that are helping us are fantastic and supportive and have guided us both into a better place. My husband had problems with alcohol and tobacco addictions, as well as growing up drinking coffee and tea. He has given up coffee and tea, and quit drinking. However, he doesn't seem to be trying to quit tobacco at all, and last night, while we were out with coworkers of his, he drank multiple beers. He knows my stance on these matters and I don't want to be the one that deters him from baptism by pressuring him, or making him feel like he must choose between baptism or tobacco and alcohol. Ultimately, he must, but I'm worried an ultimatum like that might be too much. One is easy, and the other is not. I love this man so much, and seeing how far he has come is incredible. I want to be able to help him with this step as well. I'm just so worried it will come off as nagging and not supportive. I've asked the missionaries to go into further detail about the Word of Wisdom at our next appointment in hopes that will inspire him, but don't know what else to do besides pray and love him and encourage him to pray, go to church and help him feel the spirit. I'm wondering if there is more I could be doing. Any advice or suggestions would be very much appreciated. Thank you!
  17. What do you guys think of this article? What do you think we fail to do as members of the church?
  18. My LDS Brother's and Sister's ! There has been a lot of talk on the subject of coke, caffeine, the Church stand, and Its' effects. I thought it would be appropriate to share this list of coke uses around the house some of you may already know this and some of you may be see this list and be shocked see below ! The list 1. Remove grease stains from clothing and fabric (I had to start there) 2. Remove rust; methods include using fabric dipped in Coke, a sponge or even aluminum foil. 3. Remove blood stains from clothing and fabric. 4. Make gooey Coke funnel cakes . 5. Clean oil stains from a garage floor; let the stain soak, hose off. 6. Loosen a rusty bolt; pour on some Coke and wait for the magic to happen. 7. Kill slugs and snails; a small bowl of Coke will attract them, the acid will kill them. 8. Help a lawn become lush and green (see my lawn tonic article here ) 9. Prevent an asthma attack! Apparently, the caffeine in two 12oz cans can prevent the onset of an attack. 10. Defrost a frozen windshield. Apply liberally and wait (I’ll see if this works in winter) 11. Clean burnt pans; let the pan soak in the Coke, then rinse. 12. Descale a kettle using the same method in 11. 13. Neutralize a jellyfish sting. 14. Clean car battery terminals by pouring a small amount of Coke over each one. 15. Cure nausea; let a can of Coke go flat then take a teaspoon of Coke every hour. 16. Also, flat coke can help relieve an upset stomach (aka “the runs”) 17. Make a Mentos & Coke exploding fountain. This one takes a 2-liter bottle of Coke.
  19. Hi everyone, I am technically a member of the Church. I haven't attended in a long time. I no longer live a worthy life. For whatever reason yesterday I decided to browse and watched President Dieter F. Uchtdorf's 'Of Regrets and Resolutions'. I have tried to quit smoking many times and failed. His talk has inspired me to try yet again. I don't have any real life support for this, so I was hoping maybe this is a place I can post about my efforts and feel some support, even from strangers. I have never not believed in the message of the Church since the moment I heard it, even though my life has taken me so very far away since then. I can't even begin to think about all the things I would need to do to make things right so I'm just going to focus on this one thing until I can manage the others. If these kinds of threads are frowned upon or prohibited, please delete or move it with my apologies.
  20. Hi all, I'm curious what thoughts people have on the role of moderation/temperance in gospel teaching. For example, we know that the word of wisdom prohibits any drinking of alcohol, usage of tobacco (other than for washing of beasts), etc. My question is: do any believe that God mandates complete abstinence (in my example, as pertaining to the WoW), as a stepping-stone to the eventual (and much more difficult to regulate) practice of true moderation? Let me explain... As we know, using the WoW example, alcohol and tobacco are very addictive. Thus, it is much easier to refrain from them entirely (thus completely avoiding possible addiction), then say to partake of a bit of alcohol on rare occasion, with judgement and moderation (an example of this is, prior to the WoW, general authorities would smoke, and Joseph himself, according to Rough Stone Rolling, would drink on occasion, yet never to excess/drunkenness). Is it fair to say that, knowing the tendency of people to easily give in excessively to their carnal desires, that God prescribes complete abstinence from these things? Whereas, if we had a more mature and developed self control, we could indeed partake of them in true moderation and temperance? It appears to me that true moderation, if one is actually capable of this, is the higher law, yet due to the "weakest of the saints", complete abstinence at this time is prescribed in several cases (the WoW being one of them). Thoughts?
  21. Anybody know if there is a guideine about if we should be prohibited from taking the sacrament if struggling with the word of wisdom?
  22. As saints we know the importance of keeping our bodies clean and following the Word of Wisdom, however, nothing bothers me more than my efforts and health and that of my family being subjected to people who choose to smoke out in public! They have the right to smoke, but we also have the right to breathe clean air! Help make a change by signing this petition to BAN PUBLIC SMOKING! I saw that you agree that public smoking should be banned...please sign this petition to bring about that very change!
  23. Just non alcoholic beer contrary to the Word of Wisdom? What about E-Cigs? Why is only herbal tea permitted? Why is coffee prohibited? Just a curious kid, not trying to be blasphemous. Thanks!
  24. I was reading about the word of wisdom today and I remembered the class room discussions about eating meat sparingly. I noticed that the classes never talked much about verses 13 & 15. I know vegans & vegetarians have a negative rep., but the lord in chapter 13 states: And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine. Since we are not in the same situation as the people in 1833, we have warm homes, and are not experiencing famine... would it not please the lord to avoid meat completely? And #15: And these hath God made for the use of man only in times of famine and excess of hunger. Refering more to wild animals. I am not vegan or vegetarian, but I thought it was interesting nobody goes much into it.
  25. Hi everyone. I'm a convert to the Church since 1998 and have recently been active again, like for the last year-and-a-half. Lots has happened since '98 and there are a lot of reasons I'm active again. I'm a 40 year-old married guy with one 10 YO son who I am extremely proud of. I've been married for 20 years to the same woman - she attends church fairly regularly but seems to be afraid of getting wet. My handle pretty much sums up my reason for seeking other avenues of counsel. Please excuse me for being rather cryptic - this is my intro post. I need to know which forum or group I should visit to discuss some issues I need help with. I could go to my Bishop, but that's kind of "the issue," if you're picking up what I'm laying down. Anyway, I'm glad to be here and hope to get some guidance and have some fun. Cheers.