Attonement

[WANDERER]

How does your understanding of attonement affect your relationship with God? Sorry I'm reading through all these theories at the moment and I don't understand why the debate? Can you explain it to me please?

[Vanhin]

Our spirits are the children of God. The atonement is proof that God loves his children with a perfect love. The work and glory of God, is to bring to pass our immortality and eternal life. This is accomplished in part, by us entering mortality to gain a body and to learn by our own experience the difference between good and evil. Physical death and spiritual death (sin) prevent us from returning back to the presence of God. The atonement overcomes physical death and allows us the opportunity to become clean of our sins through our obedience to the principles and ordinances of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

I thank God for his Son. Because of the Atonement of Jesus Christ, my fondest dreams are possible. He has made it possible for me and my family to survive mortality and one day return back to His presence and to the presence of the Father.

Sincerely,

Vanhin

[WANDERER]

Thankyou for sharing Vanhin. That gives me enough of a basic understanding to kind of process what I'm reading about it. I appreciate your help.

[Guest tomk]

How does your understanding of attonement affect your relationship with God? Sorry I'm reading through all these theories at the moment and I don't understand why the debate? Can you explain it to me please?

Short answer: It affects my relationship with Him positively. But the understanding of the Atonement is a paradox. It follows a relationship with God, it does not precede it.

"No man" can utter how the Atonement changes their lives.

I offer only a pathetic shadow of what the actual experience is like, through the weakness of my words.

It is my relationship with Jesus, long before I had any understanding of the Atonement, that has given me an understanding of the Atonement.

In other words, I would describe the process as:

Relationship with Jesus --- leads to ---- more understanding of the Atonement

rather than:

An understanding of the Atonement ---- leads to ----- a better relationship with Jesus (with God).

Although they certainly feed off of each other and reinforce the other.

There is no "understanding the Atonement" as a seperate activity or as an independent process from "understanding God". And the reverse is true.

---------------

Relationship with Jesus --- leads to ---- more understanding of the Atonement

This is what most clearly and accurately describes my personal experience.

Others may argue this, but the Atonement does not fall into the realm of academia. It is not scholarship that cracks open the heavens and brings us to God. It is the simple, pure petition of plough boys, who read James 1:5 and feel inspired to "give it a try." God appears to shepherds, not Kings and Presidents and Doctors who are wise in their own eyes.

The Atonement is experiential. Academic scrutiny cannot shed more light.

Each person will have a different experience with the power of the Atonement, for we each have different needs, different personalities, different intellects, and different ways of understanding or a differing WILLINGNESS in what we will receive from God by way of understanding His mysteries as a funtion of our humility (or lack thereof).

It is real.

Its effects are not utterable. And yet they are undeniable at the same time.

That is the best I can do. :)

Tom

[Vanhin]

Thankyou for sharing Vanhin. That gives me enough of a basic understanding to kind of process what I'm reading about it. I appreciate your help.

You are welcome. :)

[Guest tomk]

Something else that came to mind:

LDS.org - Liahona Article - “The Touch of the Master’s Handâ€

From that talk:

The third article of faith teaches, “We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.” [A of F 1:3] The Atonement offers redemption from spiritual death and from suffering caused by sin.

For some reason, we think the Atonement of Christ applies only at the end of mortal life to redemption from the Fall, from spiritual death. It is much more than that. It is an ever-present power to call upon in everyday life. When we are racked or harrowed up or tormented by guilt or burdened with grief, He can heal us. While we do not fully understand how the Atonement of Christ was made, we can experience “the peace of God, which passeth all understanding.” 13

----

It is much more than that. It is an ever-present power to call upon in everyday life.

TO WHICH I WOULD ADD "YOU CAN CALL UPON IT FROM MOMENT TO MOMENT"

[Hemidakota]

Gearing on what Vanhin stated, you now need to feel it. You will see in what I am referring too when it happens.

[bert10]

Oness is to become One with GOD in purpose. [Totally, In Sync with GOD's Will]

The At-one-ment to be at one in the moment with GOD occurs when we are being led by the Spirit. This is also called walking in the Light as Christ is in the Light.

Those who are led by the Spirit are the true Sons of GOD and because they follow the Spirit of GOD they are not under the law.

<> Romans 8:14 - For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

<> Galatians 5:18 - But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

This is called walking in the Light as Christ is in the Light....And John revealed to us..how remission works for the ATONEMENT to work. When we walk in the Light [being led by the Spirit] we have true fellowship with each other and with GOD.

1 John 1:7 - But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

This is the Corner Stone of the New and Everlasting Covenant of the FATHER. It is the Corner Stone that every builder has rejected since the days of Enoch.

Basically the Atonement is the TRue Testimony of Jesus Christ. And no one can have this testimony except by the Spirit of prophecy.

Revelation 19:10 - And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

I deal a lot with Christians even those who claimed that they are saved even claim to be born again. And it is frustrating to see them so deceived.

Peace be unto you

bert10

How does your understanding of attonement affect your relationship with God? Sorry I'm reading through all these theories at the moment and I don't understand why the debate? Can you explain it to me please?

[WANDERER]

Bert, thankyou...I came across the at-one-ment and had absolutely no idea why someone would write the word that way. Not quite sure what you mean by deception?

It's not for an academic exercise...or hopefully not Hemi and Tom.

[bert10]

Wanderer - deception?

"Oness" is "AT-ONE-MENT" It is also becoming about the "Spiriutal Man"

It is the teachings of Jesus about...how a man can be cleaned.

John 15:3 - Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

John 15:4 - Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

John 15:5 - I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

It is the fulfillment of this prayer of Jesus in us.

John 17:20 - Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

John 17:21 - That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

John 17:22 - And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

John 17:23 - I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

John 17:24 - Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

John 17:25 - O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.

John 17:26 - And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

Being Born again is more than a feeling...the fruits from this individual is about overcoming the world. If a man does not overcome the world he is being overcome by it.

All men who are truly born again...are becoming the Spiritual man. He is being taught of GOD and not of men. He is overcoming the weaknesses and diseases, and afflictions....He is finding true joy, happiness and prosperity and health.

That is what I mean by being deceived by Satan. I know many who have claimed to be born again...who have have no fruits of it...and are still being overcome by the world.

Peace be unto you

bert10

Oness is to become One with GOD in purpose. [Totally, In Sync with GOD's Will]

The At-one-ment to be at one in the moment with GOD occurs when we are being led by the Spirit. This is also called walking in the Light as Christ is in the Light.

Those who are led by the Spirit are the true Sons of GOD and because they follow the Spirit of GOD they are not under the law.

<> Romans 8:14 - For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

<> Galatians 5:18 - But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

This is called walking in the Light as Christ is in the Light....And John revealed to us..how remission works for the ATONEMENT to work. When we walk in the Light [being led by the Spirit] we have true fellowship with each other and with GOD.

1 John 1:7 - But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

This is the Corner Stone of the New and Everlasting Covenant of the FATHER. It is the Corner Stone that every builder has rejected since the days of Enoch.

Basically the Atonement is the TRue Testimony of Jesus Christ. And no one can have this testimony except by the Spirit of prophecy.

Revelation 19:10 - And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

I deal a lot with Christians even those who claimed that they are saved even claim to be born again. And it is frustrating to see them so deceived.

Peace be unto you

bert10

[WANDERER]

Oh....and peace....thanks Bert.

[Hemidakota]

Again, we can references the material, we can talk about it, and we can have faith and hope, but when you finally arrived at the 'crossroards' of life', you will need to 'FEEL IT'.

I sat in many meetings when someone tries to describe the Atonement but on a occasion, I had felt the Spirit bear witnessed of an individual who really knew it.