A question to all LDS men...

[fish4kitty]

Sure. I don't see a problem with that. Convert or not love is love. Pure and beautiful.

[StallionMcBeastly]

Depending on what kinds of things she had done in her "pre-church" life, I would not have a problem dating a convert. In fact, I often find converts to be the most spiritual.

[bmy-]

Then they brought in the young women and she gave a 20 minute talk about how important it is to marry a return missionary. Really, that's all she talked about for 20 minutes! I was livid, and it was all I could do not to jump up and down in the back of the chapel yelling, "I've served in the mission office. I know what stupid things elders do! Believe me, most of them really aren't anything special!"

Exactly! They're teenage males. It's so nice to hear that from someone else.. you have no idea. You should have spoken your thoughts.. a few girls might be slightly more down to earth!

Back on topic.. the past should be taken into consideration. But not what sins they commited.. look at how far they've come. I screwed up loads as a kid.. but my gf insists that since i've been baptized they don't matter anymore.

[orrinjelo]

Meep. O_O

My answer to the question is why not? Most likely, she will have the same goals as I do. I've done stupid things too so I have no right to judge her on her life before baptism.

[LittleWyvern]

Were it not that my dad dated a convert to the church, I would not exist.

[Maxel]

I agree with MoE's comment about how someone's past affecting their future is far more important than the facts about a person's past. Both my parents are converts, and my father has uniformly failed to uphold his priesthood responsibilities, both to his wife and to his children. He is also a returned missionary.

On the other hand, I look some prominent examples of men who never served missions- Heber J. Grant, Thomas S. Monson, most of the other modern-day apostles... It's who you are, not what you've done, that is the ultimate factor in what you will become.

To answer the OP's question (even if it is half a year old ), I would most definitely date a convert to the church. The only worthwhile relationship I ever had was with a convert. In fact, she hadn't even been dunked yet before we started dating. She was in the investigation process, and her decision to be baptized had nothing to do with me. This is evidenced by the fact that she is a strong member still, despite having broken up with me over a year ago, and not talked to me in the past month.

[trulykiwi]

I think if you marry someone who is living the gospel and is faithful then there is no difference. It is part of accepting the Atonement. As members we will be judged too and believe me we as members are sinning everyday. So a converts past life is covered in that Atonement especially if faithful to the end.

I married my Wife and she wasn't a member (I know, I know it is dangerous), but I knew full well she was going to be and the rest is a long story. She was getting the missionary discussions while I was at work and I had no idea, all from coming across the BOM that I (ahem) accidentally left on the sofa one day. Then lo and behold I walk in one day to sister missionaries visiting her and announcing her Baptism. So, the Lord loves all his children and has a plan for each of them he knows are the elect.

PS I knew as soon as I met her that she was the one the Lord had in store for me, so it wasn't exactly true I knew she would be a member, but on that enlightenment I trusted the Lord would bring that to pass.

[FunkyTown]

I'm a convert, so I would kind of have to be willing to date a convert. Really, what's important is the spirit.

I like my Molly's!

[ninjormon]

Hey, aren't we ALL converts?

actually tom even if we are members not all are converted

and for the question, I myself am a convert who before my baptism made some bad decisions, hung out with bad people, did some bad things and did some horrible things, so if my now wife can see the good in me then why not give someone else a chance, especially if shes really pretty

[Islander]

I think for an adult, 2-3 years of sustained solid membership evidence a strong commitment to living the gospel. I would be for giving him/her a shot.

I am a convert too. I do not even want to talk about what my life was before my conversion. After 10 years it seems like somebody else's life but mine. My wife gave me a shot and I think it worked out quite good.

[NewGirl2LDS]

Being a convert myself I would have to say yes. I am a single mom, this happened before I even thought about joining the church, and sometimes I find it hard to date because many look at my son and see my past or what not. The make assumptions of who I was when those assumptions aren't even close to being true. I love the Church and I am very thankful and gracious that it came into my life and that my son will be raised in it. I hope that someone will understand that when dating or potentially dating me...

[Hemidakota]

Hello...my friend and I were discussing this, and we thought we would get some guys opinions! Would you seriously date a convert to the LDS? Because, as you all know, once you join the Church, you get a "clean slate", and (for the most part) what you did in your previous life as non-LDS, is forgetten. So, knowing that a woman did not previously following the WoW regarding all of its teachings, would you consider dating or even possibly marrying and be sealed to that person? We are awaiting your responses!

I am so....so glad I married a convert to the church. Let you know, it was approved by a higher source. Looking back, I feel the sorrow for those who had this lame line since it holds no weight of the eternal prospective.

[FunkyTown]

I have never found that converts are less likely to be dated in the church than others, to be honest. I've seen all kinds of prejudices: Prejudices against divorcees, single moms, slightly overweight, slightly underweight, girls with red hair, girls with blue hair, girls who are too wild, girls who are too 'molly', etc.

All of these things, I have seen act as a prejudice against dating. I have still never seen a prejudice against women being dated for being a convert.

Could there be another reason?

[Islander]

I think the US is unique in which recent converts make for a very small percentage, away from the ethnic/language communities/branches. Although a large number of converts overall exist, most are long time converts (10+ years) so no longer "new" and likely settled into the church culture.

For new adult converts, especially sisters, it is very difficult to find a companion in the church. I recently attended a SA 31+ activity and it was not encouraging. My friend is the SA ward rep and he had an eye exam that afternoon and could not drive so I drove him there and back. I felt really bad for the sisters there. Not only they outnumbered males 7 to 1, the guys there looked like a sorry bunch. Not to generalize but they did not look like good companion material.

Complicated, huh?

[Vort]

My HT companion a few years ago was a HS kid that got interested in the church while befriending a girl that was a member. He converted, baptized, received his priesthood, put in for a mission, went to Mongolia, baptized 200 people, came back married that girl and now he is the ECP at his ward in Boise. All in 4 years and being a convert. Many born in the church do not measure up to that. So I think that speaks for itself.

Wow. I guess so. Using your yardstick, I know that I certainly "do not measure up to that". I, too, received my priesthood, put in for a mission, and served, but I didn't baptize 200 people. In fact, I didn't actually baptize anyone. That's right: Zero. When I got home, I continued to be active and pay tithing, always held a temple recommend, never turned down a calling and tried to magnify all callings I did receive. But I was never an ECP (whatever that is), and in fact never held any leadership position beyond counselor to a quorum president. Now in my late 40s, I am still only a mere Elder, with no hint of ever leaving the quorum. (Though I'm quite fond of my quorum, so that actually suits me pretty well.)

So without any doubt whatsoever, I don't measure up to your HT companion.

But then, I'm a lifelong member, and you know how spiritually weak we tend to be. Thank God my wife (another lifelong member weakling) condescended to date me in the first place. I do pity our children, but what are we to do? They have the misfortune of being born to us, which unfortunately means they're lifelong members, too. Bummer for them.

[gabelpa]

Don't know if laughing was an appropriate response, but there is no "I appreciate your sarcasm" button. ECP, Elders Quorum President w/ misspelling?

To others who think being born into the Church weakens you.. how many generations does it take for your blood to thin, for your spirit to be weaker than that of your convert brethren? Are you doomed to forever have your light and potential dimmed?

[ldssinglepeople]

If person A judges person B (recent convert) because of their past, person A has some repenting to do. We all need repentence, if you haven't repented before, now is a great time to start! We all need the atonement, without the Grace of Christ our works would not be enough!

Give people a chance!

Tim (ldssinglepeople)

LDS Single People

[Islander]

Wow. I guess so. Using your yardstick, I know that I certainly "do not measure up to that". I, too, received my priesthood, put in for a mission, and served, but I didn't baptize 200 people. In fact, I didn't actually baptize anyone. That's right: Zero. When I got home, I continued to be active and pay tithing, always held a temple recommend, never turned down a calling and tried to magnify all callings I did receive. But I was never an ECP (whatever that is), and in fact never held any leadership position beyond counselor to a quorum president. Now in my late 40s, I am still only a mere Elder, with no hint of ever leaving the quorum. (Though I'm quite fond of my quorum, so that actually suits me pretty well.)

So without any doubt whatsoever, I don't measure up to your HT companion.

But then, I'm a lifelong member, and you know how spiritually weak we tend to be. Thank God my wife (another lifelong member weakling) condescended to date me in the first place. I do pity our children, but what are we to do? They have the misfortune of being born to us, which unfortunately means they're lifelong members, too. Bummer for them.

Sorry. I know I am missing your point because I do not understand your post. My post was in reference to the OP which related to whether or not a convert is a good prospect for marriage. I just used this young man to illustrate that converts can be as strong if not more so than some born in the church.

[Vort]

I just used this young man to illustrate that converts can be as strong if not more so than some born in the church.

And I'm simply agreeing with you. Your yardstick for measuring strength was how many people this young man baptized and which callings he received after his mission. This, it seems, proves his strength and success in the kingdom of God. By this measure, your friend is far stronger and more successful than am I, since I didn't baptize 200 (or any) people, and since I haven't had any Church callings that make me admired in the eyes of others. As you said, "Many born in the church do not measure up to that." I'm simply agreeing that I am one of those.

[FunkyTown]

And I'm simply agreeing with you. Your yardstick for measuring strength was how many people this young man baptized and which callings he received after his mission. This, it seems, proves his strength and success in the kingdom of God. By this measure, your friend is far stronger and more successful than am I, since I didn't baptize 200 (or any) people, and since I haven't had any Church callings that make me admired in the eyes of others. As you said, "Many born in the church do not measure up to that." I'm simply agreeing that I am one of those.

Hahah. Neither am I, Vort. If you're saying this out of a sense of irony, I appreciate and love it. If you actually were offended, I don't know what to say.

Good on the OP. He worked hard, baptized a lot and did well. Congrats! We need more in the church like that. Frankly, I'm betting that you weren't offended and merely pointing out that this sort of track record isn't an expectation.

[Vort]

Hahah. Neither am I, Vort. If you're saying this out of a sense of irony, I appreciate and love it. If you actually were offended, I don't know what to say.

Irony? Yes, though meant for chuckles and reflection, not for personal criticism. Offended? No -- but I think those who are sensitive to such things could well be offended. Should members from Utah be offended when other Church members speak disparagingly of "Utah Mormons"? ("Well, you know how those Utah Mormons are, partying and drinking on Saturday nights and then blessing the sacrament Sunday mornings.") No, they should not be offended, but I would understand if they were.

Similarly, lifelong members should not be offended when others talk about how "weak" lifelong members tend to be, or how much better it is to date and marry someone who "actually converted" than someone who was merely "born into it". Taking offense at the sometimes-ignorant expressions of our fellow Saints is not in harmony with the gospel. We are to love and sustain them, not harangue them for their imperfections or sometimes ill-considered comments. My attempt at irony was not meant as a bludgeon, but as a funhouse mirror, hopefully allowing those who had made such statements to see a caricatured but still essentially accurate reflection of those words.

Good on the OP. He worked hard, baptized a lot and did well. Congrats! We need more in the church like that.

I would agree, if baptizing a lot were always a direct result of working hard. But the highest-baptizing missionary on my mission, an absolutely amazing sister who many months baptized as much as the rest of the mission combined, probably got around a dozen baptisms in total. On the other hand, my cousin who served in Chile told me of unscrupulous and even dishonest missionaries in South American missions who nevertheless got literally hundreds of baptisms. Were they therefore more righteous than my mission's Sister Amazing? Doubtful.

In the same vein, unless you think that being a quorum president/bishop/Relief Society president/other "important" calling is a reward for and a proof of righteous living, you cannot judge someone's standing before God or the righteousness of his life based on whether he held the calling of "ECP", or EQP, or any other position.

(Btw, I was not a particularly effective missionary and don't expect to receive any kudos in this life or the life to come because of my missionary service. Still, my lack of baptizing was primarily due to the fact that, when we baptized someone while I was a junior companion, my senior companion wanted to perform the baptism because he hadn't yet had the opportunity to do so, and when we baptized someone while I was the senior companion, I wanted to make sure my junior companions, unlike me, did get that opportunity. I did get several chances to confirm people, which I valued.)

Frankly, I'm betting that you weren't offended and merely pointing out that this sort of track record isn't an expectation.

A bit more than that, actually. I am pointing out that such a "track record" cannot be used as a measuring stick for righteousness at all. That Brother Awesome joined the Church, served a mission, baptized hundreds, came home and got called to be a bishop no more "proves" that he is righteous than Brother Other's mission failure to baptize anyone, followed by a succession of unimpressive ward callings for the rest of his life, "proves" that he failed to serve God or his fellow man adequately.

I think we would do well to get away from characterizing people's faithfulness in terms of their birth status or Church callings, and instead simply serve as we are asked, honoring others in their own service.

[Jamie123]

If I was single and an LDS convert, I'd have serious misgivings about dating anyone who answered "no" to this question. We all have "pasts" and we have all sinned - born "in the covenant" or not. The worst sin of all is thinking that you're better than other people.

[Islander]

If I was single and an LDS convert, I'd have serious misgivings about dating anyone who answered "no" to this question. We all have "pasts" and we have all sinned - born "in the covenant" or not. The worst sin of all is thinking that you're better than other people.

I tend to agree with you in the most general sense. But, things are never so simple as they seem. A 22-23 year old young man that has done things right his whole life and has been waiting for marriage after his mission is also entitled to his own expectations. In my view, it is not a matter of him not being able to forgive her "sin". It is a matter of choice and what a person can process psychologically when it comes to this issue.

We can not ignore the fact that ONLY God knows the heart of men (and women) and we have to discern and ponder what our future will be like given the history of the person before us. Sad to say, but the best indicator of future behavior is still past behavior. So, if this young man decides that her past is too complex and emotionally dense and he decides to pass, it is his choice. He is also entitled to expect someone that has upheld the same values, under the same social pressures, and kept her virginity.

Remember, with agency comes choice but once exercised there are consequences. Some good, some bad, some obvious, some unforeseeable. God will forgive you just about anything, but He will not free you from the consequences.

[Vort]

If I was single and an LDS convert, I'd have serious misgivings about dating anyone who answered "no" to this question. We all have "pasts" and we have all sinned - born "in the covenant" or not. The worst sin of all is thinking that you're better than other people.

I think forcible rape is probably worse. Also, killing and eating people is probably worse than thinking you're better than they are. Not sure, but I might be able to come up with one or two more.

[Jamie123]

So, if this young man decides that her past is too complex and emotionally dense and he decides to pass, it is his choice. He is also entitled to expect someone that has upheld the same values, under the same social pressures, and kept her virginity.

This suggests that man can "earn" the right to a "pure" wife by being pure himself. But Jesus said: "...whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart" (Matt 5:28). Don't tell me that the most morally upright man in the world hasn't done that (at least occasionally) when he's seen a pretty girl walk past. We are all sinners. None of us is any better than anyone else. It is only by Grace that any of us can be considered righteous.

Of course, I'm not saying that every convert "with a past" is necessarily right for every non-convert who's spent his whole life trying (and that's the best any of us can do) to live out the Gospel. Some pairs of people are compatible, others are not, but for a man to rule out any "convert" as a potential marriage partner on the basis of their previous "sins of the flesh" (real or imagined) is surely a sin in itself. Apart from anything else, it shows a lack of faith in God's power to change people's lives.

I think forcible rape is probably worse. Also, killing and eating people is probably worse than thinking you're better than they are. Not sure, but I might be able to come up with one or two more.

The things you mention are certainly worse in terms of their temporal consequences, and (for the good of society) must merit a greater punishment. But I don't believe God is a consequentialist: It is not the consequences of our sins that damage our relationship with God, but the effect those sins have upon ourselves - i.e. making us less worthy to enter His presence. Most theologians would agree that pride is the most detestable sin in the eyes of God and the original cause of Satan's fall. C.S. Lewis once wrote that "most evil is good gone wrong" but "pride comes to us straight from Hell". (I no longer have a copy of that book so I'm quoting from memory.)

Edited March 6, 2009 by Jamie123
Tidy up the wording