Why did people in the scriptures live so long?

[skalenfehl]

Hi Skanefehl - It is all related....Children of the Light shall have long life, health and prosperity. The Lord promise to them who would put the kingdom first in their life that all things shall be added to them. In Isaiah...God said...before they leave off from asking I will hear.

You are saying that in these latter days that it is easy to lose our way. It is not. though there may be times when we have to stop and listen even ask God to make the way clearer....

Let me know what you think.

My thoughts are thus:

A long life is relative. So is our worthiness and companionship of the Lord. But who today is living to be anywhere near Adam's and Methuselah's age?

It is as easy for us to lose our way in the last days as it was in ancient days, even for the elect. King David is an excellent example. I do agree that we can be as close to the Lord today as the people of old could, too, according to our righteousness. That right there is key--according to our righteousness. King David was a righteous man, but in a moment of weakness he succumbed to temptation, committed adultery with Bathsheba and then committed an even more grievous sin--murdering Uriah. The very elect can be deceived.

Consider what was written by Nephi:

2 Ne. 2:19-21

19 And after Adam and Eve had partaken of the forbidden fruit they were driven out of the garden of Eden, to till the earth.

20 And they have brought forth children; yea, even the family of all the earth.

21 And the days of the children of men were prolonged, according to the will of God, that they might repent while in the flesh; wherefore, their state became a state of probation, and their time was lengthened, according to the commandments which the Lord God gave unto the children of men. For he gave commandment that all men must repent; for he showed unto all men that they were lost, because of the transgression of their parents.

Consider their ages: Adam, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph by bibletalk on Blogster

Adam @130yrs The birth of Seth

Adam @235yrs Seth begat Enos

Adam @325yrs Enos begat Cainan

Adam @395yrs Cainan begat Mahalaleel

Adam @460yrs Mahalaleel begat Jared

Adam @622yrs Jared begat Enoch

Adam @687yrs Enoch begat Methuselah

Adam @-57yrs Enoch Lived 300yrs more and God took him

Adam @874yrs Methuselah begat Lamech

Adam lived 56yrs more and died

Enoch @65yrs The birth of Methuselah

Enoch @252yrs The birth of Lamech

Enoch lived 113yrs more and God took him 69yrs before birth Noah

Methuselah @187yrs The birth of Lamech

Methuselah @369yrs The birth of Noah

Methuselah @869yrs The birth of Shem, Ham, Japheth

Methuselah lived 100yrs more and died the year of the flood

Lamech @182yrs The birth of Noah

Lamech @682yrs The birth of Shem, Ham, Japheth

Lamech lived 95yrs more and died 5yrs before the flood

>>>>

Noah @500yrs begat Shem, Ham, Japheth

Noah @600yrs @The time of the flood

Noah @602yrs Arphaxad begat by Shem 2yrs after the flood

Noah @637yrs Arphaxad lived 35yrs and begat Salah

Noah @667yrs Salah lived 30yrs and begat Eber

Noah @701yrs Eber lived 34yrs and begat Peleg

Noah @731yrs Pelg lived 30yrs and begat Reu

Noah @763yrs Reu lived 32yrs and begat Serug

Noah @793yrs Serug lived 30yrs and begat Nahor

Noah @822yrs Nahor lived 29yrs and begat Terah

Noah @892yrs Terah lived 70yrs and begat Abram, Nahor, and Haran

Noah lived 58yrs more and died @950yrs......

Shem @100yrs and begat Arphaxad 2yrs after the flood

Shem @135yrs The birth of Salah

Shem @165yrs The birth of Eber

Shem @199yrs The birth of Peleg

Shem @229yrs The birth of Reu

Shem @261yrs The birth of Serug

Shem @291yrs The birth of Nahor

Shem @320yrs The birth of Terah (the days of Terah 205yrs)

Shem @390yrs The birth of Abram, Nahor, Haran

Shem @465yrs @ 75yrs old Abram & Lot departed fm Haran to Canaan

Shem @476yrs @ 86yrs old Hagar bare Ishmael to Abram

Shem @489yrs @99yrs old God appeared toAbram, Covenant of Circumcision

and Abram/Sarai name changed to Abraham/Sarah

Shem @490yrs @100yrs old Abraham begat Isaac/ Sarah 90yrs old, Gen 17:17

Shem @527yrs @127yrs old Sarah died in Kirjatharba, the same is Hebron

Shem @565yrs @175yrs old Abraham and Gave Up The Ghost and died

Shem lived 35yrs more and died @ 600yrs....

Terah @70yrs The birth of Abram, Nahor, Haran

Terah @145yrs When Abram & Lot departed Haran

Terah @156yrs The birth of Ishmael

Terah @169yrs When God appeared to Abram/Covenant of Circumcision

Terah @170yrs The birth of Isaac

Terah lived 35yrs more and died @ 205yrs....

Abram @75yrs Departed with Lot fm Haran to Canaan

Abram @86yrs The birth of Ishmael

Abram @99yrs God appeared to Abram/Covenant of Circucision/Name change

Abraham@100yrs The birth of Isaac

Abraham@137yrs The death of Sarah

Abraham lived 38yrs more and died @ 175yrs

Isaac @40yrs When he took Rebekah to wife

Isaac @60yrs The birth of Jacob & Esau, Two Nations

Isaac @100yrs Esau took a Hittite wife @40yrs old

Isaac lived 80yrs more and died @ 180yrs

Jacob @40yrs Esau took a Hittite wife

Joseph @17yrs Dreamed a dream (Gen 37:5)

Joseph @30yrs Joseph stood before Pharaoh (Gen 41:46)

Jacob @130yrs Joseph brought Jacob to Pharaoh @Goshen (Gen 47:7)

Jacob @147yrs Jacob lived 17yrs in Egypt and died (Gen 47:28, 49:33)

Joseph @110yrs Joseph dwelt in Egypt 93yrs and died (Gen 50:22-26)

Now consider the following scripture about the last days: Joseph Smith—Matthew 1

20 And except those days should be shortened, there should none of their flesh be saved; but for the elect’s sake, according to the covenant, those days shall be shortened.

22 For in those days there shall also arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch, that, if possible, they shall deceive the very elect, who are the elect according to the covenant.

But as you said, it is possible that the elect will not be deceived if they treasure up God's word:

37 And whoso treasureth up my word, shall not be deceived, for the Son of Man shall come, and he shall send his angels before him with the great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together the remainder of his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

It seems that we are both right.

[gwozz]

I think I see what you're getting at. However, I personally think that scriptures you are quoting in matthew concerning the days being shortened are referring to the last days, when wickedness and whordoms will be running rampant upon the earth--not referring to the lifespans of mankind compared to that of the patriarchs, but to the amount of time that christ will allow satan to have power in the last days. If you look at the lifespans of the patriarchs above, you'll notice a clear trend towards shorter life-spans. Why? My opinion--because Adam was placed in perfection, with a perfect and immortal body. Over time since the fall, and over generations, the physical body of man has degenerated, or devolved, away from that perfect body--consequence of the fall. We know there are genetic mutations and a host of environmental toxins, etc that we are exposed to that the fathers were not. They've taken their toll. And were it not for the God=inspired public health knowledge, medications and herbs that we've been given, our average age of death would be down in the 40s and 30s. Man has devolved since the beginning, away from perfection, and the trending lifespan is but one evidence for it.

[gwozz]

I believe that Adam came with a perfect body. Once the fall took place, blood began to flow in his veins (see "fall of adam" or "flesh" in bible dictionary). We know that genetic mutations occur, and that they bring disease and physical ailments. I think the patriarchs lived so much longer, b/c their bodies didn't have all the genetic mutations and problems that we have inherited. Man's body has been devolving ever since the fall of Adam. He had a perfect body, and since he fell, the human body has devolved. All known mutations in higher organisms (excluding bacteria) have been detrimental. There has never been observed a benefical mutation in the body of mankind, nor any other higher organisms. As such, the body of man use to live longer and be more resilient. Now, not so much. Man is devolving, not evolving. (read doctrines of salvation by JFS compiled by BRM book 1).

Amen. That is what I was trying to convey.

[skalenfehl]

The genetic mutation theory seems plausible. Unfortunately I don't have access to the reference cited (JFS...BRM).

...but to the amount of time that christ will allow satan to have power in the last days

"Wickedness and whoredoms" have been running rampant upon the earth since the beginning of time (Cain, Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, etc) and through each dispensation without pause. Indeed our dispensation may be shortened.

years are approximate:

Adamic dispensation (4,000 BC)

Apostacy

Dispensation of Enoch (3,765 BC)

Apostacy

Dispensation of Noah (3,000 BC)

Apostacy

Dispensation of Abraham (2,000 BC)

Apostacy

Mosaic Dispensation (1,500 BC)

Apostacy

Dispensation of the Meridian of time (AD 30)

Great Apostacy

Dispensation of the Fullness of times (AD 1830)

resource: LDS.org - Aaronic Priesthood Chapter Detail - The Priesthood from Adam to the Restoration

There can be no question, however, that their days were "lengthened" in the context that I have cited from 2 Nephi. My explanation is fully supported by the scriptures. "Those days" mentioned in Matthew certainly do seem to refer to the last days and not necessarily our lifespans, but we definitely aren't living hundreds of years as the patriarchs did.

[roytucker]

Sorry skalenfehl, but I would offer an alternative interpretation of the 2 Nephi scripture:

Consider what was written by Nephi:

2 Ne. 2:19-21

19 And after Adam and Eve had partaken of the forbidden fruit they were driven out of the garden of Eden, to till the earth.

20 And they have brought forth children; yea, even the family of all the earth.

21 And the days of the children of men were prolonged, according to the will of God, that they might repent while in the flesh; wherefore, their state became a state of probation, and their time was lengthened, according to the commandments which the Lord God gave unto the children of men. For he gave commandment that all men must repent; for he showed unto all men that they were lost, because of the transgression of their parents.

I believe these scriptures are referring to the fact that the Lord has granted us a mortal probation in which to repent, rather that instant death/judgement for sin. (2 Ne 2:21 "...prolonged...that they might repent while in the flesh"). It does not specify that any one group is being given special extended life privileges. It will apply to all "the children of men."

Now consider the following scripture about the last days: Joseph Smith—Matthew 1

20 And except those days should be shortened, there should none of their flesh be saved; but for the elect’s sake, according to the covenant, those days shall be shortened.

In these scriptures, I believe the shortened "days" mentioned refer to the days preceding the Second Coming rather than a person's lifespan. (JSM1:4 "... what is the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world...")

Obviously, my interpretation may be incorrect, but I thought I would share it anyway.

Roy

[VisionOfLehi]

I always wonder why some verses of scripture can't have two meanings.

Isaiah was ALWAYS referencing at LEAST two periods of time in his prophecies.

The way other verses I've read are worded point to multiple meanings that just all sound right, and can be supported either way by other scriptures.

I think that's why we're supposed to study them so well. There's the obvious stuff we're meant to see, and then the stuff for those who have eyes to see, and ears to hear.

[skalenfehl]

roytucker, it's definitely plausible. I don't want to take away from your explanation or others either. I just can't help but think that after Adam and Eve left the Garden of Eden (remember their days there would have been countless had they never partaken of the fruit), they entered mortality with a limited life span. Nephi tells us that their days were "lengthened". By what standard? What could be longer than forever? (They could still have been in the Garden of Eden today debating whether or not to partake of the forbidden fruit}. I never implied that they would have suffered an instant death/judgment. The facts speak for themselves, though. They lived hundreds of years.

My theory is that they were allowed longer lives compared to ours so that they could multiply and replenish the earth. It expedited propagation, plus I don't believe there was near the wickedness in those very early days as we see later in the Bible, the BoM or even today. They could not have gone from an "immortal life" of innocence to a "longer mortal life" knowing good and evil. Obviously by the time the generations of man reached Nephi's time, they weren't living hundreds of years anymore, therefore Nephi's statement is relative to his days and the days of the people of his time. I should note that I don't claim to be correct, only to assert that the scriptures support my hypothesis. I do concede that "those days" will be shortened can easily refer to the days of our dispensation preceding Christ's second coming. I do not refute that interpretation. :)

[roytucker]

You'll have to excuse me, skalenfehl, but I love a challenge :) I think I see where you're coming from with the "lengthened by what standard" thing. I would therefore like to call Alma the Younger to the witness stand. Alma gave a very similar type of discourse in Alma 12:21-26. Alma explains that if it had not been for the cherubim and flaming sword, Adam would have partaken of the fruit of the tree of life and "would have been forever miserable, having no preparatory state" (Alma 12:26) He also explains,

"And we see that death comes upon mankind, yea, the death which has been spoken of by Amulek, which is the temporal death; nevertheless there was a space granted unto man in which he might repent; therefore this life became a probationary state; a time to prepare to meet God; a time to prepare for that endless state which has been spoken of by us, which is after the resurrection of the dead." (Alma 12:24)

Alma is saying the same as Nephi, but using "space granted" instead of "days prolonged."

So, when you ask by what standard their days were lengthened, the answer may be that their mortal days were lengthened in comparison to an immediate partaking of the fruit of the tree of life. (I originally said immediate death/judgement, which was wrong, but same result)

So I would conclude again that both Nephi and Alma are talking about mortality generally rather than a special life-extender for the first 30 generations that call in the next 15 minutes.

Thank you Alma. You may step down.

(Hope my poor attempts at a comedic tone are not offensive)

Roy

[skalenfehl]

A worthwhile debate.

So, when you ask by what standard their days were lengthened, the answer may be that their mortal days were lengthened in comparison to an immediate partaking of the fruit of the tree of life.

That doesn't make sense, because if they had partaken of the fruit of the tree of life, they would have lived forever. Their mortal days cannot be lengthened longer than forever. Nothing is longer than forever.

Alma 12: 26

26 And now behold, if it were possible that our first parents could have gone forth and partaken of the tree of life they would have been forever miserable, having no preparatory state; and thus the plan of redemption would have been frustrated, and the word of God would have been void, taking none effect.

But they didn't. The whole point of placing the Cherubim and the flaming sword would be so that they didn't peradventure partake of that fruit (tree of life) and therefore make God a liar, because He did say they would surely die if they partook of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. But! The Lord didn't say they would immediately die if they partook of it. He never said that. He meant they would surely become mortal, which they did and would eventually die, which they did. They couldn't multiply and replenish the earth (the other commandment) if they had immediately died. And I don't see them being naughty and race right over to partake of the fruit of the tree of life right after being chastised, to negate God's word and make him a liar. It doesn't make sense. Therefore the space granted to them was their mortal probation--their lengthened days. Lengthened compared to what? Compared to the eventual and natural life expectancy of man.

Gen. 3: 22-24

22 ¶ And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

23 Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

They were sent out from the garden of Eden before placing the Cherubims and a flaming sword by the tree of life implying they could return to the Garden for whatever reason. Why guard the tree if they were never allowed back in...or were they? Perhaps to gather seeds to take back out for tilling the ground and planting them. Where else did they get wherewith to plant seeds? If they were allowed access to the garden, it stands to reason they could either by accident or by exercising foolish judgment partake of that fruit at any time, not just immediately before they were driven out. They had to eat while they planted crops, watched them grow, harvest them, etc. or hunt for meat, etc. Perhaps they ate of the many fruits and vegetables and nuts and seeds available in the "garden" of Eden. Who knows?

The fact remains that their mortal probation lasted hundreds of years. It's indisputable. Their days were longer compared to what? Compared to Nephi's and Alma's days of probation and yours and mine. I hope this makes better sense.

[HiJolly]

The fact remains that their mortal probation lasted hundreds of years. It's indisputable. Their days were longer compared to what? Compared to Nephi's and Alma's days of probation and yours and mine. I hope this makes better sense.

Pardon my intrusion, but I dispute your claim that this "fact" is indisputable. Therefore, I win. :lol: ....Oh wait, I wasn't playing.... Ooops.

But seriously, I disagree. I realize this puts me in a position of not believing what we accept as scripture, and that is not typically a 'happy' place to be. Such is my burden.

HiJolly

[MorningStar]

Does anybody know?

I've always been curious about it.

I've wondered this many times! Thanks for asking. :)

[skalenfehl]

Something else that just occurred to me. From the time of Adam to Methuselah and Noah, the people were living to be hundreds and hundreds of years old, some nearly a millennium! Then because of their wickedness they Lord sends the flood and wipes them all out. Now the Lord has to start all over with just Noah's family. Still, Noah lived to be over 900 years old, but after him, people weren't living as long. Life spans were decreasing after Shem, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, etc. barely living to be over 100 years old. Today people do live to be just over 100 years old. Just an observation.

Adam @130yrs The birth of Seth

Adam @235yrs Seth begat Enos

Adam @325yrs Enos begat Cainan

Adam @395yrs Cainan begat Mahalaleel

Adam @460yrs Mahalaleel begat Jared

Adam @622yrs Jared begat Enoch

Adam @687yrs Enoch begat Methuselah

Adam @-57yrs Enoch Lived 300yrs more and God took him

Adam @874yrs Methuselah begat Lamech

Adam lived 56yrs more and died

Enoch @65yrs The birth of Methuselah

Enoch @252yrs The birth of Lamech

Enoch lived 113yrs more and God took him 69yrs before birth Noah

Methuselah @187yrs The birth of Lamech

Methuselah @369yrs The birth of Noah

Methuselah @869yrs The birth of Shem, Ham, Japheth

Methuselah lived 100yrs more and died the year of the flood

Lamech @182yrs The birth of Noah

Lamech @682yrs The birth of Shem, Ham, Japheth

Lamech lived 95yrs more and died 5yrs before the flood

>>>>

Noah @500yrs begat Shem, Ham, Japheth

Noah @600yrs @The time of the flood

Noah @602yrs Arphaxad begat by Shem 2yrs after the flood

Noah @637yrs Arphaxad lived 35yrs and begat Salah

Noah @667yrs Salah lived 30yrs and begat Eber

Noah @701yrs Eber lived 34yrs and begat Peleg

Noah @731yrs Pelg lived 30yrs and begat Reu

Noah @763yrs Reu lived 32yrs and begat Serug

Noah @793yrs Serug lived 30yrs and begat Nahor

Noah @822yrs Nahor lived 29yrs and begat Terah

Noah @892yrs Terah lived 70yrs and begat Abram, Nahor, and Haran

Noah lived 58yrs more and died @950yrs......

Shem @100yrs and begat Arphaxad 2yrs after the flood

Shem @135yrs The birth of Salah

Shem @165yrs The birth of Eber

Shem @199yrs The birth of Peleg

Shem @229yrs The birth of Reu

Shem @261yrs The birth of Serug

Shem @291yrs The birth of Nahor

Shem @320yrs The birth of Terah (the days of Terah 205yrs)

Shem @390yrs The birth of Abram, Nahor, Haran

Shem @465yrs @ 75yrs old Abram & Lot departed fm Haran to Canaan

Shem @476yrs @ 86yrs old Hagar bare Ishmael to Abram

Shem @489yrs @99yrs old God appeared toAbram, Covenant of Circumcision

and Abram/Sarai name changed to Abraham/Sarah

Shem @490yrs @100yrs old Abraham begat Isaac/ Sarah 90yrs old, Gen 17:17

Shem @527yrs @127yrs old Sarah died in Kirjatharba, the same is Hebron

Shem @565yrs @175yrs old Abraham and Gave Up The Ghost and died

Shem lived 35yrs more and died @ 600yrs....

Terah @70yrs The birth of Abram, Nahor, Haran

Terah @145yrs When Abram & Lot departed Haran

Terah @156yrs The birth of Ishmael

Terah @169yrs When God appeared to Abram/Covenant of Circumcision

Terah @170yrs The birth of Isaac

Terah lived 35yrs more and died @ 205yrs....

Abram @75yrs Departed with Lot fm Haran to Canaan

Abram @86yrs The birth of Ishmael

Abram @99yrs God appeared to Abram/Covenant of Circucision/Name change

Abraham@100yrs The birth of Isaac

Abraham@137yrs The death of Sarah

Abraham lived 38yrs more and died @ 175yrs

Isaac @40yrs When he took Rebekah to wife

Isaac @60yrs The birth of Jacob & Esau, Two Nations

Isaac @100yrs Esau took a Hittite wife @40yrs old

Isaac lived 80yrs more and died @ 180yrs

Jacob @40yrs Esau took a Hittite wife

Joseph @17yrs Dreamed a dream (Gen 37:5)

Joseph @30yrs Joseph stood before Pharaoh (Gen 41:46)

Jacob @130yrs Joseph brought Jacob to Pharaoh @Goshen (Gen 47:7)

Jacob @147yrs Jacob lived 17yrs in Egypt and died (Gen 47:28, 49:33)

Joseph @110yrs Joseph dwelt in Egypt 93yrs and died (Gen 50:22-26)

[lostnfound]

One theory I've heard is because they were closer to Adam and Eve, who had "perfect" bodies when palced on this earth, and the Fall made their bodies corruptable, but not immediately corrupted. As generation after generation went by, more corruptions began seeping into the gene pool (not sure how, I guess genetic mutation?) causing the human body to age faster, and illnesses and such started cropping up, killing people off before their time.

I don't personally believe it (not that I don't believe it's not possible, just that I haven't gained any Witness of it) but it's one of the more interesting theories I've heard.

Another one is to look at the "years" as being months instead, and you find that the ages come down to be pretty much average when you do that.

I agree with jenamaries first assessment..That as sin continued so did disease etc..on people as well as the land. Remember adam and Eve were perfect. That is why they were able to mary cousins etc without deformities. Today that would not be the case.

[bert10]

Hi skalenfehl

My thoughts are thus:

A long life is relative. So is our worthiness and companionship of the Lord. But who today is living to be anywhere near Adam's and Methuselah's age?

I can name you lot's of people who have lived even longer than Adam and Methuselah.

<> Enoch and the inhabitants of Zion did received the promises of eternal life in the flesh. [they have not yet received a fullness of it but it is coming]

<>Melchizedek and the inhabitants of his city Salem after the flood. They also received the promise of Eternal life in the flesh.

<> Elijah is another one.

<> The Three Nephites

<> John the Beloved is another.

Many early Christians who believed in the promises in their lifetime did receive them while yet they were on the Earth.

What happens is that they become ministering Spirits of the Lord...they serve missions here and there. I imagine many holy men from heaven are amongst us even today...quietly going about and preparing individuals for what is coming. Giving teachings here and there...opening the minds of people to unimagined possibilities.

The Patriarchs who were faithful but had not completely overcome the world or did not believe in the promises applied to them....died in the faith at a ripe old age surrounded by their families.

In Hebrews chapter 11 - the Apostle was speaking about such men...even to expounding the great faith of some individuals and yet they died even to contrasting them to Enoch who ....did not die...

Hebrews 11:13 - These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of [them], and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

Why these great men of the Faith died?

Ans: they did not receive the promise.

Why did they not receive the promise?

Ans:Because they saw them afar off.

it is said it shall be done according to one's faith. And if one puts a time's stamp on his faith..then it shall be done according to his faith.

Anyone who is worthy and is waiting for death in order to receive the promises of God for these it shall happen after death. It shall be done according to their faith.

Others choose to give up their immortality in order to gain a better resurrection....by not accepting deliverance from heaven.

Hebrews 11:35 - Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:

One of the greatest gift a man may give God is their immortality once they have received the promises of it. These are allowed to remain on the earth so that their martyrdom can be used to 'Good' purposes and effect changes in the life of men.

---------------------------------------------------

It is as easy for us to lose our way in the last days as it was in ancient days, even for the elect. King David is an excellent example. I do agree that we can be as close to the Lord today as the people of old could, too, according to our righteousness. That right there is key--according to our righteousness. King David was a righteous man, but in a moment of weakness he succumbed to temptation, committed adultery with Bathsheba and then committed an even more grievous sin--murdering Uriah. The very elect can be deceived.

King David had not come to the point where he overcame the world. He was not always being led by the Spirit of God but often by his lusts of the flesh.

When David chose to Sin with Bathsheba...He had warnings in his hearts. Though His warnings were weak because David..did take wives and concubines that God had not given him. Had David received a fullness of the Holy Ghost... He would have put himself beyond repentance and so .....He would have committed the Sin which no forgiveness is possible. David fell because he choose the be led by the flesh rather than by the Spirit.

----------------------------------------------

Consider what was written by Nephi:

2 Ne. 2:19-21

19 And after Adam and Eve had partaken of the forbidden fruit they were driven out of the garden of Eden, to till the earth.

20 And they have brought forth children; yea, even the family of all the earth.

21 And the days of the children of men were prolonged, according to the will of God, that they might repent while in the flesh; wherefore, their state became a state of probation, and their time was lengthened, according to the commandments which the Lord God gave unto the children of men. For he gave commandment that all men must repent; for he showed unto all men that they were lost, because of the transgression of their parents.

Consider their ages: Adam, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph by bibletalk on Blogster

Here is a couple of verses concerning the promises of Christ.

Proverbs 10:27 - The fear of the LORD prolongeth days: but the years of the wicked shall be shortened

Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Adam and Eve never committed any sins after Eden. Is it not correct that they should have so many years?

And the wicked is it not justice and love of God that he shortens their years. If a man wish to have many years like John, Enoch, the three Nephites...he must become the Spiritual man...or a man born in the Spirit of God.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Now consider the following scripture about the last days: Joseph Smith—Matthew 1

20 And except those days should be shortened, there should none of their flesh be saved; but for the elect’s sake, according to the covenant, those days shall be shortened.

22 For in those days there shall also arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch, that, if possible, they shall deceive the very elect, who are the elect according to the covenant.

But as you said, it is possible that the elect will not be deceived if they treasure up God's word:

37 And whoso treasureth up my word, shall not be deceived, for the Son of Man shall come, and he shall send his angels before him with the great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together the remainder of his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

It seems that we are both right.

Now this last part has nothing to do with shortening or lengthening the years of man. It is dealing with a period of time filled with extreme wickedness on the earth.

------------------------------------------------------------

37 And whoso treasureth up my word, shall not be deceived,

You and I know that the bible cannot be completely trusted. As for the BOM there has been many changes in it since it was first printed. I do not wish to go into it.

The man who treasureth the words of God: as it comes into his heart by the Spirit of God shall not be deceived. When we read the bible and the BOM we are to read these books with the Spirit and not apart from it.

the Living Word as it is sometimes called must come from a Living GOD not a dead book. It is written that by the letter is death...and by the Spirit is life.

Peace be unto you

bert10

[bert10]

Hi skalenfehl

My thoughts are thus:

A long life is relative. So is our worthiness and companionship of the Lord. But who today is living to be anywhere near Adam's and Methuselah's age?

I can name you lot's of people who have lived even longer than Adam and Methuselah.

<> Enoch and the in the inhabitants of Zion did received the promises of eternal life in the flesh. [they have not yet received a fullness of it but it is coming]

<>Melchizedek and the inhabitants of his city Salem after the flood. They also received the promise of Eternal life in the flesh.

<> Elijah is another one.

<> The Three Nephites

<> John the Beloved is another.

Many early Christians who believed in the promises in their lifetime did receive them while yet they were on the Earth.

What happens is that they become ministering Spirits of the Lord...they serve missions here and there. I imagine many holy men from heaven are amongst us even today...quietly going about and preparing individuals for what is coming. Giving teachings here and there...opening the minds of people to unimagined possibilities.

The Patriarchs who were faithful but had not completely overcome the world or did not believe in the promises applied to them....died in the faith at a ripe old age surrounded by their families.

In Hebrews chapter 11 - the Apostle was speaking about such men...even to expounding the great faith of some individuals and yet they died even to contrasting them to Enoch who ....did not die...

Hebrews 11:13 - These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of [them], and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

Why these great men of the Faith died?

Ans: they did not receive the promise.

Why did they not receive the promise?

Ans:Because they saw them afar off.

it is said it shall be done according to one's faith. And if one puts a time's stamp on his faith..then it shall be done according to his faith.

Anyone who is worthy and is waiting for death in order to receive the promises of God for these it shall happen after death. It shall be done according to their faith.

Others choose to give up their immortality in order to gain a better resurrection....by not accepting deliverance from heaven.

Hebrews 11:35 - Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:

One of the greatest gift a man may give God is their immortality once they have received the promises of it. These are allowed to remain on the earth so that their martyrdom can be used to 'Good' purposes and effect changes in the life of men.

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It is as easy for us to lose our way in the last days as it was in ancient days, even for the elect. King David is an excellent example. I do agree that we can be as close to the Lord today as the people of old could, too, according to our righteousness. That right there is key--according to our righteousness. King David was a righteous man, but in a moment of weakness he succumbed to temptation, committed adultery with Bathsheba and then committed an even more grievous sin--murdering Uriah. The very elect can be deceived.

King David had not come to the point where he overcame the world. He was not always being led by the Spirit of God but often by his lusts of the flesh.

When David chose to Sin with Bathsheba...He had warnings in his hearts. Though His warnings were weak because David..did take wives and concubines that God had not given him. Had David received a fullness of the Holy Ghost... He would have put himself beyond repentance and so .....He would have committed the Sin which no forgiveness is possible. David fell because he choose the be led by the flesh rather than by the Spirit.

----------------------------------------------

Consider what was written by Nephi:

2 Ne. 2:19-21

19 And after Adam and Eve had partaken of the forbidden fruit they were driven out of the garden of Eden, to till the earth.

20 And they have brought forth children; yea, even the family of all the earth.

21 And the days of the children of men were prolonged, according to the will of God, that they might repent while in the flesh; wherefore, their state became a state of probation, and their time was lengthened, according to the commandments which the Lord God gave unto the children of men. For he gave commandment that all men must repent; for he showed unto all men that they were lost, because of the transgression of their parents.

Consider their ages: Adam, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph by bibletalk on Blogster

Here is a couple of verses concerning the promises of Christ.

Proverbs 10:27 - The fear of the LORD prolongeth days: but the years of the wicked shall be shortened

Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Adam and Eve never committed any sins after Eden. Is it not correct that they should have so many years?

And the wicked is it not justice and love of God that he shortens their years. If a man wish to have many years like John, Enoch, the three Nephites...he must become the Spiritual man...or a man born in the Spirit of God.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Now consider the following scripture about the last days: Joseph Smith—Matthew 1

20 And except those days should be shortened, there should none of their flesh be saved; but for the elect’s sake, according to the covenant, those days shall be shortened.

22 For in those days there shall also arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch, that, if possible, they shall deceive the very elect, who are the elect according to the covenant.

But as you said, it is possible that the elect will not be deceived if they treasure up God's word:

37 And whoso treasureth up my word, shall not be deceived, for the Son of Man shall come, and he shall send his angels before him with the great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together the remainder of his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

It seems that we are both right.

Now this last part has nothing to do with shortening or lengthening the years of man. It is dealing with a period of time filled with extreme wickedness on the earth.

------------------------------------------------------------

37 And whoso treasureth up my word, shall not be deceived,

You and I know that the bible cannot be completely trusted. As for the BOM there has been many changes in it since it was first printed. I do not wish to go into it.

The man who treasureth the words of God: as it comes into his heart by the Spirit of God shall not be deceived. When we read the bible and the BOM we are to read these books with the Spirit and not apart from it.

the Living Word as it is sometimes called must come from a Living GOD not a dead book. It is written that by the letter is death...and by the Spirit is life.

Peace be unto you

bert10

[skalenfehl]

I can name you lot's of people who have lived even longer than Adam and Methuselah.

<> Enoch and the inhabitants of Zion did received the promises of eternal life in the flesh. [they have not yet received a fullness of it but it is coming]

<>Melchizedek and the inhabitants of his city Salem after the flood. They also received the promise of Eternal life in the flesh.

<> Elijah is another one.

<> The Three Nephites

<> John the Beloved is another.

The OP's original question was why did people in the scriptures live so long? I have to assume he meant those whom I quoted. They lived long in their mortal probation, a time they could use for repentance, which is what Nephi was referring to. Those in your quotes above transcended their probation and lived longer for other reasons. The likes of Enoch, Elijah, three Nephites, etc, all were granted privileges that all the others did not have (Adam, Noah, etc.) Or did they? Is this what you're saying? Because a lengthened mortal probation and translation aren't exactly the same.

[Hemidakota]

Not only length of age but height [statue] of the individual.

[Hemidakota]

The key to understand how many different dispensation, main or sub[minors] types there was, is the keys that was given to Joseph Smith since he is the person who holds the Dispensation of the Fullness of Time.

Restoration of the Keys of Former Dispensations

In the great vision to the Prophet and Oliver in the Kirtland Temple, the Prophet records, after picturing the glorious vision of the Christ:

After this vision closed, the heavens were again opened unto us; and Moses appeared before us, and committed unto us the keys of the gathering of Israel from the four parts of the earth, and the leading of the ten tribes from the land of the north.

After this, Elias appeared, and committed the dispensation of the gospel of Abraham, saying that in us and our seed all generations after us should be blessed.

After this vision had closed, another great and glorious vision burst upon us; for Elijah the prophet, who was taken to heaven without tasting death, stood before us, and said:

Behold, the time has fully come, which was spoken of by the mouth of Malachi—testifying that he [Elijah] should be sent, before the great and dreadful day of the Lord come—

To turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the children to the fathers, lest the whole earth be smitten with a curse—

Therefore, the keys of this dispensation are committed into your hands; and by this ye may know that the great and dreadful day of the Lord is near, even at the doors. (Ibid., 110:11-16.)

Finally, we may add the great testimony of the Prophet Joseph and Sidney Rigdon at Hiram, after which the Lord revealed to them the three great glories to which men might go in the hereafter:

And while we meditated upon these things, the Lord touched the eyes of our understandings and they were opened, and the glory of the Lord shone round about.

And we beheld the glory of the Son, on the right hand of the Father, and received of his fulness;

And saw the holy angels, and them who are sanctified before his throne, worshiping God, and the Lamb, who worship him forever and ever.

And now, after the many testimonies which have been given of him, this is the testimony, last of all, which we give of him: That he lives!

For we saw him, even on the right hand of God; and we heard the voice bearing record that he is the Only Begotten of the Father—

That by him, and through him, and of him, the worlds are and were created, and the inhabitants thereof are begotten sons and daughters unto God. (Ibid., 76:19-24.)

Thus principle after principle, ordinance after ordinance (not only those named, but others) dealing with the children of God and their destiny in the hereafter have been restored in this restitution of all things in this the last dispensation, the Dispensation of the Fulness of Times.

As we ponder these great truths, we are burdened with the thought of how vast is the service and how great is the responsibility of this Dispensation of the Fulness of Times that carries in it the salvation and exaltation of billions of spirits who during the ages since Adam, have come to the earth and taken mortal bodies, and have died without the opportunity to "prove" themselves, that they might "have glory added upon their heads for ever and ever"; and how vast also the service and great the responsibility of bringing the Gospel to the billions now on the earth, andstill coming in multitudes, that they may "prove" themselves likewise.

For to us in our day has come the same commandment and commission that was given to Christ's own Apostles on the day of his ascension. The Lord has said to us:

Go ye into all the world, preach the gospel to every creature, acting in the authority which I have given you, baptizing in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.

And he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved, and he that believeth not shall be damned.

And he that believeth shall be blest with signs following, even as it is written.

And unto you it shall be given to know the signs of the times, and the signs of the coming of the Son of Man;

And of as many as the Father shall bear record, to you shall be given power to seal them up unto eternal life. Amen. (Ibid., 68:8-12.)

God give us the strength, the wisdom, the power and his inspiration and revelation, which we need to obey this command of the Almighty to us.

"And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn." Luke 2:7

Reference: 'Behold the Lamb of God' by Reuben Clark p.95,

[aliasgeorge]

Pardon my intrusion, but I dispute your claim that this "fact" is indisputable. Therefore, I win. :lol: ....Oh wait, I wasn't playing.... Ooops.

But seriously, I disagree. I realize this puts me in a position of not believing what we accept as scripture, and that is not typically a 'happy' place to be. Such is my burden.

HiJolly

HiJolly, I thought that was a well-stated opinion. I disagree, as I imagine you could've guessed, but well-stated.

[skalenfehl]

Not only length of age but height [statue] of the individual.

Interesting. How did you arrive at this conclusion?

[Hemidakota]

Added details in regards to ages from Adam, is given in chapter 2 - 'Lectures on Faith' by Joseph Smith.

[Hemidakota]

Interesting. How did you arrive at this conclusion?

Many different accounts from Indian Mounds located in the Americas to different journal entries of seeing into the past or visitation of the same. Notable is William Clayton's journal of his vision of one of the sons of Adam. {some references are made in the Old Testament - remnants of giants].

Next to that, Zarahemla people discovering the Jaredites land and the plates; described the large breastplates and swords. Then we have the U&T that Joseph Smith tried to use.

Summary, they were almost double our height of a normal person.

Deuteronomy 2 ... Anakims; 11 Which also were accounted giants, as the Anakims; but the Moabites call ... 20 (That also was accounted a land of giants: giants dwelt therein in old time; and ...

Numbers 13...great stature. 33 And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants...

Deuteronomy 3...king of Bashan remained of the remnant of giants; behold, his bedstead was a bedstead of ... all Bashan, which was called the land of giants. 14 Jair the son of Manasseh took all ...

Joshua 13...Edrei, who remained of the remnant of the giants: for these did Moses smite, and cast them...

Joshua 15...which is at the end of the valley of the giants northward: 9 And the border was drawn ...

Joshua 17...in the land of the Perizzites and of the giants, if mount Ephraim be too narrow for thee...

Joshua 18...Hinnom, and which is in the valley of the giants on the north, and descended to the valley...

Moses 7...out of the depth of the sea. 15 And the giants of the land, also, stood afar off; and ...

Moses 8... them. 18 And in those days there were giants on the earth, and they sought Noah to take...

Joshua 12...Bashan, which was of the remnant of the giants, that dwelt at Ashtaroth and at Edrei, ...

[bert10]

Hi Skakenfehl.

The OP's original question was why did people in the scriptures live so long? I have to assume he meant those whom I quoted.

There are many factors as to why they lived long life. Basically they dealt with receiving blessings for observing laws of God. As the two bible verses in my previous post showed.

Wages of sin is death [body] and Righteousness of God is life even life eternal.

Some of the factors were:

1. They lived the words of wisdom. Even though it was not given they were observing it. Adam and the first generation live this law perfectly. And their bodies were not born with deficiencies. So they lived long life.

2. The Lord wanted to replenish the earth.

3. It is only later that they learn to pass their food by fire. [destroying many of the nutrients needed]

4. It is written that God shall shorten the days of the wicked. This is to prevent them from receiving torments greater they can bear.

5. The bible verse below came in the days that men through sorcery with the watchers begat giants...God said...

Genesis 6:3 - And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

I do not have all the reasons why God shortened the life of men.But the gift of God to Adam and Eve was perfect bodies.....so they had long life... the shortening of their days seem to have come in the time of Great wickedness, where sorcery, violence and the corruption of all flesh was occurring.

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"They lived long in their mortal probation, a time they could use for repentance, which is what Nephi was referring to".

For every sin we commit in thoughts, words and action...God prescribe a time of repentance before justice has its way with us. This time period between that sin and its consequence is the Grace of God to sinners. The time given to repent is based on our individual strengths and weaknesses. A time the sons and daughters of Adam and Eve could use to repent which they did not use. In ten generation evil was not restricted and mankind fell so far and became so corrupted that God had no choice but start over with Noah.

--------------------------------------------------------------

Those in your quotes above transcended their probation and lived longer for other reasons. The likes of Enoch, Elijah, three Nephites, etc, all were granted privileges that all the others did not have (Adam, Noah, etc.) Or did they? Is this what you're saying? Because a lengthened mortal probation and translation aren't exactly the same.

It is the same power....the power to heal and the power to raise the dead is the same power.

Translations, transfiguration, Being born Again, being quickened, becoming the Spiritual man is all the same; it is the power of the Resurrection whose purpose is to quicken. A man does not need to be in the grave to be quickened. I also think this quickening is not sealed in full until the plan of salvation is over.

I do not think that any has received the fullness of the change, which was spoken about by Paul. But the change that comes over us..is in the twinkling of an eye.

I tell you the truth no man of flesh and blood can enter into heaven. Not even Enoch and Elijah. They need to become the Spiritual man in order to go to the Spiritual realm. Neither can flesh and blood see GOD's face and live. When this happens...there is a change that comes over the person..that raises him to the Spiritual level. And if a man stays at that level long enough like Moses for example..who glowed for three days afterwards and had to stay in his tent and wear a veil over his face for the people were afraid of the countenance of God emanating from the very cells of his body. I believe had Moses stayed longer with the Lord he would have been translated.

This below is a partial of the doctrine.

1 Corinthians 15:50 - Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

1 Corinthians 15:51 - Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

1 Corinthians 15:52 - In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

1 Corinthians 15:53 - For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

1 Corinthians 15:54 - So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Odes of Solomon

7. I have been united to Him, because the lover has found the Beloved, because I love Him that is the Son, I shall become a son.

8. Indeed he who is joined to Him who is immortal, truly shall be immortal.

9. And he who delights in the Life will become living.

1 Corinthians 15:55 - O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

1 Corinthians 15:56 - The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

(by the law comes sin and with sin comes wraths because of transgressions and with transgressions came death)

1 Corinthians 15:57 - But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

(Galatians 5:18 - But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

1 Corinthians 15:58 - Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

(Romans 8:14 - For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.)

-------------------------------------------------------

More on this from the BOM. Oness is to have the Father and Son abide in us [see prayer of Jesus] and we in THEY. When it occurs....

Moses 6:61 - Therefore it is given to abide in you; (1) the record of heaven; (2) the Comforter; (3)the peaceable things of immortal glory; (4)the truth of all things;(5) that which quickeneth all things, (6)which maketh alive all things; (7) that which knoweth all things, (8) and hath all power according to wisdom, mercy, truth, justice, and judgment.

Only 5 and 6 pertains...to us at this time.

And it is that which quickeneth all things...and that which maketh all things alive.

It is the same power...that quickens... and maketh all things alive.

Did you read the Odes of Solomon yet. This is a book on translation that God allowed a man to write. In it ...he states that "He received a body free from pain and afflictions."

He also states that anyone who unites with someone who is immortal becomes immortal. The true purpose of the UNITED ORDER is to unite with GOD so that we inherit from Him all things....

And if we do this...then as in Moses 6:61 IT IS GIVEN TO ABIDE IN US....

As I have said in the previous post....many were not translated and went to the grave even though they had great faith...because they did not receive the promises of God and the reason why is that they had seen them from afar.

Had they had or remembered this gospel that it is given to abide in us all things of GOD even the power to rebuke death indefinitely. things would have been differently for many.

This is part of the Gospel Jesus said to His Apostles just before His crucifixion..."I have yet many things to say unto you but ye cannot bear them now". It is also the wisdom Paul said that He spoke to them who were perfect.

If you still do not understand just be patient. I hope that i have answered all the questions.

Peace be unto you

bert10

[skalenfehl]

Thank you for taken the time to reply, bert. I think my answer fits within your explanation.

[bert10]

Hi Skalenfehl...

This type of posts is not easy to understand and many are not ready for a lot of the stuff that is in it. There are so many great truths in the BOM. I think I would have accepted it any time after my twenties even without the missionaries. There is no doubt whatsoever that J. Smith was/is a prophet who wrote down great truths. And as the world continues to reject this book so shall the indignation of the Lord grow until the wraths begin to take men by the millions from this earth.

Peace be unto you

bert10