What is the Plan of Satan?

[Traveler]

I thought I would ask a question - What is the "Plan of Satan" and how does that differ from the "Plan of G-d"?

Please if you would - do not come back with what I often call the "Sunday School" answer. I would like you to ponder this question and realize how it differes from the Plan of G-d.

As a final reality check please ponder your answer in light of the fact that Satan was able to draw with him a third part of the most enlightened beings in existance - Angels of the most high G-d. And also keep in mind that they were not decived. Their choice to follow Satan was in full knowledge of G-d and eternal things.

And the final question: Where and how do we encouter Satan's plan as he first presented it in heaven?

The Traveler

[Gillebre]

Satan wanted power, glory. He knew God wouldn't name him the Savior, so he had to go about it another way. Satan was not a stupid person, he was intelligent and cunning. In light of that, why would someone in authority with God openly rebel as he did? There must have been something to gain.

And because of his rebellion, what does Satan stand to gain? Satan gains ultimate power and dominion over the sons of Perdition. That is the power that Satan sought...to rule over the wicked and filthy, and he will do so over they who shall see no kingdom of glory.

[Guest tomk]

I thought I would ask a question - What is the "Plan of Satan" and how does that differ from the "Plan of G-d"?

Please if you would - do not come back with what I often call the "Sunday School" answer. I would like you to ponder this question and realize how it differes from the Plan of G-d.

As a final reality check please ponder your answer in light of the fact that Satan was able to draw with him a third part of the most enlightened beings in existance - Angels of the most high G-d. And also keep in mind that they were not decived. Their choice to follow Satan was in full knowledge of G-d and eternal things.

And the final question: Where and how do we encouter Satan's plan as he first presented it in heaven?

The Traveler

LOL - what is the matter with a "Sunday School" answer?

Satan's plan is summed-up quite nicely by the following verse:

D&C 29: 36

36 And it came to pass that Adam, being tempted of the devil—for, behold, the devil was before Adam, for he rebelled against me, saying, Give me thine honor, which is my power; and also a third part of the hosts of heaven turned he away from me because of their agency;

Satan's plan, quite literally, was to first obtain our Father in Heaven's power, then use it to march us through mortality, making all of the correct decisions, and thus being able to return to God's presence.

The plan itself was a lie. It never could have worked. Heavenly Father's power cannot be obtained in that manner - it cannot be given just for the asking. And growth cannot take place without opposition and choice.

I don't think that Satan ever had an ALTERNATE PLAN THAT HE KNEW WOULD WORK. Satan was a coward. What happened (I think) is that Satan simply refused to come down to earth. He refused to submit to the plan. That was His rebellion. And so, the natural consequence of that rebellion was that Satan had to be cast-out. He had to leave Father's presence, for, by his own choice, his eternal progression was at an end. He knowingly chose not to continue progressing.

His whole focus now is in tearing us down. He wants to reign over us.

[Guest tomk]

I thought I would ask a question - What is the "Plan of Satan" and how does that differ from the "Plan of G-d"?

Please if you would - do not come back with what I often call the "Sunday School" answer. I would like you to ponder this question and realize how it differes from the Plan of G-d.

As a final reality check please ponder your answer in light of the fact that Satan was able to draw with him a third part of the most enlightened beings in existance - Angels of the most high G-d. And also keep in mind that they were not decived. Their choice to follow Satan was in full knowledge of G-d and eternal things.

And the final question: Where and how do we encouter Satan's plan as he first presented it in heaven?

The Traveler

Traveler:

You cannot escape CHOICE.

We had to leave Father's presence. We could not stay.

So we had a choice:

Leave and get a body.

OR

Leave and be denied a body.

Along with the consequences that followed - eventual exaltation (or salvation of some sort) or total dissolution (outer darkness).

It all comes back to CHOICE.

Not all of us wanted to follow God's plan. That was our choice. God had to honor that choice. He could not send us down here against our will.

[Traveler]

Thank so far for the responses. The most important element of Satan’s plan was to destroy the agency of man. The answer to my question was in two parts. First – How could he destroy the agency of man and gain the support of a third part of G-d most enlightened and intelligent creations?

A couple of ideas I would like readers to keep in mind – Someone cannot exercise agency in ignorance. Agency implies that you know exactly what you are doing. The angels that followed Satan did so knowing the consequences. The second has been mentioned already. It has to do with power. Satan had power but there was something about his power that he wanted but did not have. In essence he wanted control. What is power without control? What then is the power of G-d? And how is the power of G-d different from the power of Satan?

My other question has to do with this world. What are some examples readers see in religion, politics and general society of man that prove Satan is putting forth his plan? For example: How does Satan utilize the “Law” to destroy the agency of man? In contrast what are some examples readers see in religion, politics and general society that prove G-d is putting forth his plan? – how does G-d use the law differently in his plan?

The Traveler

[Guest Username-Removed]

In my patriarcal blessing, it says that "satan has great desire for (my) soul". I've had a lot of experience with Satan in his attempts to throw me off-base.

I wanted to list some of my experiences. But I have decided to omit those. What I can tell you is that Satan thrives on fear. The best way to repel him is to simply say, "that poor spirit - all he can do is try to scare us ... how pathetic!" Also, some great thoughts of Jesus Christ, his sacrifice on the cross, would really repel it.

Satan and his spirit followers use many tools. Thats why its important to stay on top of things by staying close to Heavenly Father.

[Dr T]

The most important element of Satan’s plan was to destroy the agency of man.

Not surprisingly Traveler but I disagree.

Agency implies that you know exactly what you are doing. The angels that followed Satan did so knowing the consequences.

Given your claim here, how does it follow that he can destroy agency when they knew the consequences? Did he force them? Are we not allowed to go by the dictates of our hearts? to rebel against the good/right/godly standards? I'm really asking those questions to try and understand where you're coming from and not just looking for an argument sir. Thank you

[Tough Grits]

The Screwtape Letters, by C.S. Lewis is a wonderful story that illustrates just exactly how Satan uses subtle influence to lead others astray.

I do not know why Satan did what he did.

I mean, I know that he wanted to MAKE all humans be good and take away our opportunity to choose for ourselves, which was in stark contradiction to Heavenly Father's plan of allowing us to come to earth, receive mortal bodies, and then choose for ourselves between good and evil.

But because of the veil, none of us can now remember exactly why Satan did such an awful thing as to rebel against the Father. Surely he had to have known that he would lose, be cast down, and never be allowed to receive a body?

But if he knew all that, then why did he do it anyway?

Well, I guess we do the same thing as humans. We allow pride to blind us to what we already know to be true. Maybe he just became blinded by his own pride. Then, maybe not wanting to be alone without a body and cast out forever, he persuaded 1/3 of the hosts of heaven to come with him into misery. To me, that shows right there how mean and cruel he is.

Not only to he make a mistake and let his foolish, arrogant pride act out against the Father, but he also persuaded 1/3 of his brothers and sisters to be condemned with him.

The very thing Satan wanted, power, is the one thing he still lacks. He has NO power over us, except that which we ALLOW him to have.

When we follow his subtle persuading's, it is by choice...not by force. Oh, how some on earth would love to be able to say, "But the devil made me do it." But that just is not so. We cannot be acted upon by Satan or any of his doomed followers. When we sin, it is by our own choice, our own lack of control over the natural/carnal man.

As far as Satan's plan, it is all around us. He whispers softly to all of us to just take one tiny step off the straight and narrow. We can see this on the TV, movies, and on our radios. His subtle whisperings are all over. Standards are lowering at ever alarming rates. That is his plan.

Heavenly Father's plan is all around us too. When we look into the face of an innocent child, a sleeping infant, or watching youth and adults alike giving service and fellowship to one another. Surely, we can all think of things that happen every day that are a witness that the gospel is alive and well all around us.

To me, the greatest difference that I see between Satan and Heavenly Father, is how I personally visualize them.

Heavenly Father has His arms held eternally wide waiting for me to come to Him and be embraced by Him. He delights in my joys and my successes. He is there to comfort me in my trials and tribulations. He loves me always.

Satan hates me. He delights in nothing but my misery and anguish. He never lets up in his relentless deceitful whisperings and he seethes over any joy that I have or valiancy that I display to the gospel.

These are just my thoughts.

I believe that there is much more to the story of the war in heaven and the great council in heaven than has been provided to us through scripture. But I also think that if it has not been revealed to us, then it is not necessary for our exaltation. I think we have a hard enough time staying afloat in the shallow waters, that we need not suppose we can handle the deep depths of the gospel.

For me, it is enough to know that Satan is evil and hates me, and that Heavenly Father is just and He loves me.

~TG

[Justice]

I was given some insight into this many years ago. I haven't shared it with very many people. It is sacred to me, and I hope it helps.

I've often wondered why Satan wanted to take our agency away. He could have planned to destroy God's plan many, many ways. Why agency? You know, that's what his plan was, right? He was going to make us do things right while we were exposed to the wrong. I wondered what he thought this might accomplish.

You can reason this way:

No agency means we can not make choices.

No choices means no wrong choices.

No wrong choices means no sin.

No sin means no death or hell.

No death or hell means nothing to redeem man from.

Nothing to redeem man from means no need of a redeemer.

No redeemer means no atonement.

No atonement means no atoning sacrifice.

No sacrifice means no pain and suffering associated to it.

Satan was not willing to suffer an eternal suffering for us. So, he tried to change the part of the plan that would eliminate it. He wanted to redeem us without agency so he wouldn't be required to make the ultimate sacrifice for it.

However, once in the flesh man had to have agency and learn good from evil, then learn to choose the good over the evil. Without both agency and the knowledge of good and evil it couldn't be accomplished. For this to happen, an infinite Atonement was required. This is why Satan's plan could not work.

Lucifer wanted to be the savior but he was not willing to suffer for it. So, he attempted to change the plan accordingly.

In short, he did not really care for us, even though he acted like he did.

Edited June 14, 2008 by Justice

[Tough Grits]

Awesome post. Thank you for sharing.

[VisionOfLehi]

Why would a third host still follow Satan, knowing the consequences?

Maybe they wanted to be on his side, clinging to the hope that their support would be enough to change the plan.

Not all of us were equal in our progression, or our abilities. We were still different, with personalities, and motivation and ambition.

I think it's very likely that some "knew" they couldn't get through "life" without falling immensely short of Exaltation, and they couldn't bear that.

And some, perhaps afraid of mortality. They knew there'd be pains, and sicknesses, and horrors. Things they didn't have to deal with. Lucifer, cunning and intelligent as he was, could have easily made this seem unbearably horrific.

Remember, agency is the ability to choose your actions. It is not the ability to choose the consequences. We chose life, but we did not choose all that would happen to us. We took a risk, coming here.

And I'm certain some just didn't want to take that risk.

Pride and thirst for power played a part for some, too.

[tubaloth]

Some good post, which means there isn’t much more to say…

And because of his rebellion, what does Satan stand to gain? Satan gains ultimate power and dominion over the sons of Perdition. That is the power that Satan sought...to rule over the wicked and filthy, and he will do so over they who shall see no kingdom of glory.

I do see the point here, but why would somebody WANT to rule over wicked people? Why not rule over anybody? This is what Satan wanted. To rule over us all! Not just good or bad.

Satan's plan, quite literally, was to first obtain our Father in Heaven's power, then use it to march us through mortality, making all of the correct decisions, and thus being able to return to God's presence.

God’s power isn’t something you gain by having a majority. Even if Satan had gotten us all to follow him, the only way to gain God’s power is for God to give it to us! It is his power! Only he can give it to us (or satan). You were on the right track here when you quoted about Honor! This is what Satan wanted! He wanted people to worship him! He wanted followers like God had followers! He wanted the Honor of being the one in charge! If Satan wanted power, the plan of Salvation was the way to gain God’s power (we believe we can be like God is). That wasn’t good enough! He wanted followers! This is why Satan is so much at work now! He feels he can still gain followers! The more followers, the more he is in charge (so to speak)

The most important element of Satan’s plan was to destroy the agency of man.

I kind of disagree! I don’t think Satan WANTED to destroy Agency (that wasn’t his top priority). It was to gain Honor and followers. As Justice pointed out so well, the only way to do this (with out a Savior) was to take away Agency. So destroying Agency was more the best/easies way for Satan’s plan to still kind of work.

The angels that followed Satan did so knowing the consequences.

I don’t think they did! I think they knew they were going against God! But I assume they thought Satan would “win” and his plan would take effect. (still get a body, still gain exaltation). If the 1/3 really knew they were going to get cast out, why still pick that side? You have no reason to make that choice! I choose to go with Satan who probably well be cast out! I can’t see that.

Satan had power but there was something about his power that he wanted but did not have. In essence he wanted control. What is power without control? What then is the power of G-d? And how is the power of G-d different from the power of Satan?

Satan might have had power in the pre-mortal life. We gain more power the more light and truth we follow. I assume Satan grew to his status because of the light and truth he followed (Why he was an angel of Light). But after being cast out, Satan’s power wasn’t anything even close compared to God. God has all power. Satan’s power is Knowledge! Knowledge of each of us! Knowledge of how the plan works! Satan’s only power is IF we follow him. And that is more us falling away from God (and his power).

What are some examples readers see in religion, politics and general society of man that prove Satan is putting forth his plan?

The easiest one is the idea of Guaranteed Salvation! The idea that all I have to do is confess Christ once and I’m guaranteed salvation! This is why Satan’s plan was so tempting! The idea of something guaranteed was too much to pass up! The idea is so easy to come up with, that even if Satan hadn’t done it! Somebody else would have!

Maybe he just became blinded by his own pride. Then, maybe not wanting to be alone without a body and cast out forever, he persuaded 1/3 of the hosts of heaven to come with him into misery. To me, that shows right there how mean and cruel he is.

I agree on pride! Satan was so prideful he couldn’t stand it that somebody was better then he was! But more Satan went after all of us in the pre-mortal life. Only 1/3 fell into Satan’s trap!

[VisionOfLehi]

Maybe it wasn't that he couldn't stand someone better than him, but that he couldn't stand that he'd NEVER be as good as Him.

[beefche]

There has been some very good thoughts here.

Satan might have had power in the pre-mortal life. We gain more power the more light and truth we follow. I assume Satan grew to his status because of the light and truth he followed (Why he was an angel of Light). But after being cast out, Satan’s power wasn’t anything even close compared to God. God has all power. Satan’s power is Knowledge! Knowledge of each of us! Knowledge of how the plan works! Satan’s only power is IF we follow him. And that is more us falling away from God (and his power).

I think Satan has more power than this. I think God has allowed him powers. I'm thinking of that scripture that talks about Satan having power to "bruise his heel." Obviously, Satan does not have the power that God does (or even the power we have). Also, in the conflict with Job, Satan had a lot of powers.

[Still_Small_Voice]

I don’t think they did! I think they knew they were going against God! But I assume they thought Satan would “win” and his plan would take effect. (still get a body, still gain exaltation). If the 1/3 really knew they were going to get cast out, why still pick that side? You have no reason to make that choice! I choose to go with Satan who probably well be cast out! I can’t see that.

Those who rebelled against Heavenly Father in the pre-existence knew what the consequences were. There is no forgiveness for them because they committed the unpardonable sin.

“What must a man do to commit the unpardonable sin? He must receive the Holy Ghost, have the heavens opened unto him, and know God, and then sin against Him. After a man has sinned against the Holy Ghost, there is no repentance for him. He has got to say that the sun does not shine while he sees it; he has got to deny Jesus Christ when the heavens have been opened unto him, and to deny the plan of salvation with his eyes open to the truth of it; and from that time he begins to be an enemy...” Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith by Joseph Fielding Smith [1976], page 358).

[Maya]

Power of Godis love! When you love your neighbour as much as yourself you would never do anything to hurt him/her.

Power of love endures and suffers everythingwithout becoming bitter or angry. TRhose who have this love can live with God. If you dont have this love you cant live with God, it would hurt too much.

[Guest tomk]

Traveler:

Like I said -- it is about choice. Even if there had been no Satan, concievably there would have been those who would have decided that the Plan of Salvation was not something they wanted. They would have been cast-out. The Plan was presented because we had all reached a point where we could no longer STAY in the presence of Heavenly Father (without Him coming under condemnation).

Satan was a coward. He wanted to bypass the pain and suffering part. Which is ironic, considering how much pain and suffering is caused by following his vile whisperings.

Just because Satan ASKED for God's power does not mean that God could have given it to him. God's power resides in our voluntarily choosing to follow His loving counsel. The same goes for Satan. For all of the talk about POWER -- in the end they have no POWER over us except as we grant it to them by our obedience.

God's power is most plainly manifest in the Family. Family Home Evening, Sabbath worship. wholesome living. Unity. Harmony. Peace.

Satan's power is most plainly manifest in the destruction of the family; gay-marriage, addiction, pornography. Solitude. Chaos. Remorse.

[beefche]

Like I said -- it is about choice. Even if there had been no Satan, concievably there would have been those who would have decided that the Plan of Salvation was not something they wanted.

That's so hard to imagine. I'm sure we lost many good friends because of this choice. It's hard to conceive that someone would make a conscious decision to rebel and lose any chance of blessings that HF has for us.

[rameumptom]

Today, we have a battle between freedom versus safeguards and security. Some would have us all guaranteed a job, a home, medical care, a minimal period for vacationing (2 months in some nations), and a chicken in every pot. Others would have a bare government that just keeps us from killing one another.

History shows that more people become wealthy and more comfortable with freedoms in place. However, history also shows that lots of abuses occur, if the freedoms are not kept somewhat in check (re: robber barons). As John Adams stated, the Constitution was made for a virtuous people, and will do for no other people. Russia, Iraq and other nations have shown us recently how true that is, as a "free" nation just allows murderers and thieves to steal more.

Due to such data, I actually believe Satan thought he had a noble cause for his power move. God's plan requires suffering and risk. Satan and those with him could easily have preferred security over freedom. Instead, they felt their cause noble, to keep all from suffering, and to save everyone.

The problem with this is without struggle, we could not become Christ-like, and therefore could never have become like God and inherit godhood. Therefore, Satan's plan included a provision for this. Since we could not become like God in Satan's plan, we would just replace God with a new God that everyone could be like!

In his plan, everyone would be saved. Everyone could be like god (Satan). No one would suffer. All these safeguards would be in place. However, freedoms would be severely limited, as freedom is only for the most virtuous. And since we would not have a chance to develop virtue to God's level, none of us would be able to deal with freedoms on a Celestial level.

Brigham Young taught that there are no laws in the Celestial Kingdom, but the law of Christ-like love. In the lower kingdoms there are laws, because the residents have not learned how to be completely obedient of their own accord. IOW, God uses a balance of freedom and laws to move us forth to Christian living. Satan uses security and even more laws to keep us in a safe stasis.

To this day, some people seek an inordinate level of security, insisting government or others provide for them, so they do not have to experience failure or risk. Some have been convinced by Marxist strategy to support Satan's plan in this life. Does it ensure all are fed? It can. But few, if any, are able to progress very far. The distinctions between East and West Germany, when the Wall fell down, were very clear: West Germany had new buildings and freeways, while people were still living in WWII bombed out buildings in the east. But they had food and a safe living, in return for no dissonance nor thoughts that opposed the government.

[rameumptom]

The story of Job tells us that Satan and the other sons of El Elyon went to Yahweh/Jehovah and challenged him. In the early Canaanite and Jewish traditions, El was the head God, with 70 divine sons, each given a kingdom to rule. Yahweh was given Israel. Over the millennium, the other gods proved incompetent, or were toppled, and so Yahweh eventually became god of the world, according to Biblical writings.

But, in Job, they still held power, and sought to topple Yahweh, by testing his most devout follower. Satan has continually sought to overthrow God's kingdom anyway he can. If it means obtaining converts a few at a time, he will. He does not believe he will lose, as even reigning over a smaller kingdom (Outer Darkness) with those of like mind as himself, suggests a partial win to him.

[Hemidakota]

That's so hard to imagine. I'm sure we lost many good friends because of this choice. It's hard to conceive that someone would make a conscious decision to rebel and lose any chance of blessings that HF has for us.

Some of us may of be acquainted with Lucifer and those who reside on top as friends in the beginning then only to loose that friendship when ask to remove him and others from FATHER's presence.

[Hemidakota]

[#1]I thought I would ask a question - What is the "Plan of Satan" and how does that differ rom the "Plan of G-d"?

As a final reality check please ponder your answer in light of the fact that Satan was able to draw with him a third part of the most enlightened beings in existance - Angels of the most high G-d. And also keep in mind that they were not deceived. Their choice to follow Satan was in full knowledge of G-d and eternal things.

[#2] And the final question: Where and how do we encounter Satan's plan as he first presented it in heaven?

The Traveler

[1] What was proposed by Lucifer in a nutshell, the destruction of freedom of HIS children "Satan rebelled against me, and sought to destroy the agency of man," says the Lord. "Here am I," said Lucifer, "send me. I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind that not one soul shall be lost." [Moses 4] Under Lucifer's plan, spirit children were to have an earth- life in which there would be no losses; a world where there was nothing adventurous and dangerous, a game in which there are no real stakes; all that was a hazard would be given back. All must be saved; and no price is to be paid in the work of salvation. The last word is to be sweet. I would imagine, all is to be a yes, yes, in our known universe.

The fact of no was nowhere to stand at the core of things. There could be no seriousness attributed to life under such a plan, since there were to be no insurmountable "no" and losses, no genuine sacrifices anywhere, nothing permanently drastic and bitter to remain at the bottom of the cup. "I will redeem all mankind, that not one soul shall be lost," said Lucifer; "and surely I will do it." Man was to have nothing to do in the achievement, all was to be done for him.

Lucifer was to be passive. Noting Lehi remarks here, not a thing to act, but something to be acted upon. Now, such only could be the outcome of a world where all mankind would be saved, "that not one soul should be lost." His plan would be an utterly meaningless world. Without heroism, listless indifference would claim it. Passage through such an estate would add nothing to Intelligences. And yet, beyond question, there were natures among the Intelligences of heaven that longed for such a scheme of things, so much they dreaded danger, adventure and the stress of life that comes from individual struggle and individual responsibility. "Give us ease, let us have things done for us without our concern and the pain of striving," is their cry. And a third part of the hosts of heaven Lucifer turned away from the Lord in that day, because they made this election, and they became the devil and his angels (D&C 29).

[#2] Before the first council was convene. Those of CFB will have to encounter Lucifer, face-to-face, in this mortality to gain a testimony of this man, his works, and perhaps other of his minions.

[Dr T]

Hemi,

So you believe that people helped kick Lucifer out?

[Hemidakota]

IMHO - those spirits, given authority under Christ and by direction of the FATHER, were involved.

[Maya]

Maybe Satan first thought everyone will follow his easeier way, but he was bitterly dissapointed when so many chose Jeesus and God. He could not see any sense in suffering and giving a possibility to failure, when his plan would make sure everyone would return!

But then it was too late, he had acted against God and as hes side so eveidently lost, it made him mad, envious, revengious... It was not until then, that he started to seduce people to his side. If he could not win he would at least make it hurt to win!

When you see your own children,siblings, parents, wade away to the indifference or even negativeness, fight against the Lord ... then you know how much it can hurt! And when you think of it.. EVERY SINGLE person on this earth IS our brother or sister... oh how much does it hurt!

But we have one possibility left, even though we mess up our life here on earth in one way or an other (by loosing those that were given to you, by committing acrime, by transsgression...) the possibility is our Savour Jesus Christ. And this possibility will be there for all those that dont commit the sinn that is for eternal lock out from Goods presense to live together with Satan for ever.

Jesus will heal the sores and those that are hurt listen to gospel again and hopefully make the right choise.