New marriagelaw in Norway

[Maya]

Big problem is that the poor "preasts" have to marry who ever want to be married or resighn. Many congrigations are thinking of giving up the possibility to marry people.

This law was done VERY sneeky behind everyones back. It was talked a long time, but I dont think everyone knew it would be done last week!!

Also adaptation is open to anybody....

[Fiannan]

Big problem is that the poor "preasts" have to marry who ever want to be married or resighn. Many congrigations are thinking of giving up the possibility to marry people.

This law was done VERY sneeky behind everyones back. It was talked a long time, but I dont think everyone knew it would be done last week!!

Also adaptation is open to anybody....

Ah, but whenever we speak of same-sex marriage in these forums some people claim this could never happen.

Stories in English:

Same sex marriage law passed by wide majority - Aftenposten.no

Edited June 15, 2008 by Fiannan

[Heather]

"lesbian couples will qualify for state funded fertility treatment."

Wow! State funded fertility treatment?

I'm not going to say anything. I'll just leave it at that.

[Jbs2763]

ahhh..... facisim sneaking up on us....worked so good for the ruskies

[Moksha]

ahhh..... facisim sneaking up on us....worked so good for the ruskies

That was communism. Are the American History classes in High School still stopping at the Civil War?

[Jbs2763]

That was communism. Are the American History classes in High School still stopping at the Civil War?

communisim starts with facsism and i'm not sure if i spelled either of those right

[prisonchaplain]

Big problem is that the poor "preasts" have to marry who ever want to be married or resighn. Many congrigations are thinking of giving up the possibility to marry people.

This law was done VERY sneeky behind everyones back. It was talked a long time, but I dont think everyone knew it would be done last week!!

Also adaptation is open to anybody....

I'm a bit confused by the mispelling and " " marks surrounding priests. The article did not make it clear--is Norway requiring that priests officiate same-sex marriages, or face legal revokation of their ordination? How can a secular government do that?

[Jbs2763]

I'm a bit confused by the mispelling and " " marks surrounding priests. The article did not make it clear--is Norway requiring that priests officiate same-sex marriages, or face legal revokation of their ordination? How can a secular government do that?

SOCIALISM BABY!!!!!!!!!

and there happens to be one silly goose who is "appling" for a very important job in the US who makes Karl Marx look like Thomas Jefferson

[prisonchaplain]

SOCIALISM BABY!!!!!!!!!

and there happens to be one silly goose who is "appling" for a very important job in the US who makes Karl Marx look like Thomas Jefferson

And it was conservative Christians who were accused of starting a "culture war???"

As an aside, Rev. Jerry Falwell was acting prophetically when he encouraged LDS participation in his Moral Majority, back in the 1980s (much to the chagrine of his fundamentalist and evangelical bretheren). We can argue theology here, but those of us who are united on these social issues ought to vote. I'll be a good mod and not name candidates, but I would suggest that we make educated guesses as to what kind of justices these candidates will put in the courts.

Edited June 16, 2008 by prisonchaplain

[Fiannan]

I'm a bit confused by the mispelling and " " marks surrounding priests. The article did not make it clear--is Norway requiring that priests officiate same-sex marriages, or face legal revokation of their ordination? How can a secular government do that?

Heck, in Sweden even though the Lutheran Church is no longer officially recognized as the state church on election day people vote for the leadership of the Lutheran Church of Sweden -- even though they may not be Christians.

Also, in Norway corporations have to have at least 40% of the upper management comprised with women (new law) and it would not surprise me if their anti-discrimination laws would require a priest to have to conduct a gay marriage even though he or she may not support it.

Strange thing happens when you throw morl standards out the window and at the same time give government total control. In Germany there have been cases where women on unemployment have had termination of their benefits because they refused to take jobs in the sex industry:

"If you don't take a job as a prostitute, we can stop your benefits"

'If you don't take a job as a prostitute, we can stop your benefits' - Telegraph

As for the state-funded fertility treatment (insemination from donor sperm) for lesbian couples now being legal my gripe here is what right does a government have to say it was not legal in the first place? Oh, that's right, with national health care you can let the government decide what medical services you have a right to.

[WANDERER]

....surely they can have a civil ceremony instead ...AND how does that affect churches that do the marriage counselling courses before a couple can apply for a ceremony?

[Maya]

Also, in Norway corporations have to have at least 40% of the upper management comprised with women (new law) and it would not surprise me if their anti-discrimination laws would require a priest to have to conduct a gay marriage even though he or she may not support it.

This is excactly what is happening and why now many churches dont excactly know what to do. I think we are on a safe side as we dont allow the practice of same sex couples. This would mean all those that practice are not members, so they can not be married by a bishop. Hopefully the allowance to marry people is only to marry LDS..ops might not be. My daughters husband was not LDS and the bishop married them... so hopefully at least ONE of them has to be LDS. UH this is getting complicated or it will happen that those that are allowed to marry people HAVE TOmarry who ever wnats to getmarried or they will be centansed!

Strange thing happens when you throw morl standards out the window and at the same time give government total control. In Germany there have been cases where women on unemployment have had termination of their benefits because they refused to take jobs in the sex industry:

Same happened here in Norway... ah it is so demogratic...

As for the state-funded fertility treatment (insemination from donor sperm) for lesbian couples now being legal my gripe here is what right does a government have to say it was not legal in the first place? Oh, that's right, with national health care you can let the government decide what medical services you have a right to.

In the news today a father wants the custody of a surgrent mothers baby! After all the mother, probably his wife... ex? Was not the mother!

I agree with you wanderer. I cant understand WHY the gays have to be married in church... even a lot of usuall people live together without marriage or married civil! I am afraid there are more gays and lesbos in Norway than LDS.

And YES it means that who ever can marry people has to marry those that come and ask for it! OR there will be consiquences. I hope LDS are on ajour and their allowances have some extra points like allowed to marry ONLY LDS or when one is LDS!! Or maybe the marrying is only going to happen in the Temple.

I am afraid non LDS will do everything they can to force the Church to open the Temple doors to everybody... but I doubt they will manage that.

Btw. maybe this law is why we have not got a Temple in Norway...

[Fiannan]

There is a silver lining behind Islamic fundamentalism growing in the Islamic immigrant communities of northern Europe. If the politicians ever did decide to force ALL religious groups to have to marry homosexual couples I think they know they'd have a jihad on their hands. There's probably not one politician in Norway or Sweden that is commited to their social agenda enough to risk making the Muslim community get really angry for being told to disobey Allah/God. One hint of s fatwa and their pants will need changing for obvious reasons -- once they are safely hidden under their beds and have stopped wimpering.

[Bookmeister]

Two thoughts.

1. Politicians are like diapers.

2. Just because the majority of voters approve something doesn't mean they're right.

[Hemidakota]

Perhaps that is next item for America there, Mailis?

[Fiannan]

Two thoughts.

1. Politicians are like diapers.

2. Just because the majority of voters approve something doesn't mean they're right.

Isn't in Mosiah that it's said that you can generally figure that the voice of the people will support rightiousness but once they choose that which is unrightious that then God's punishments will follow?

[Dr T]

SOCIALISM BABY!!!!!!!!!

and there happens to be one silly goose who is "appling" for a very important job in the US who makes Karl Marx look like Thomas Jefferson

I like the idea of Socialism, at least from what I've read. Unfortunately in the end it has no been shown to work.

[Moksha]

I'm a bit confused by the mispelling and " " marks surrounding priests. The article did not make it clear--is Norway requiring that priests officiate same-sex marriages, or face legal revokation of their ordination? How can a secular government do that?

I think the part about requiring Priests to perform these marriages is just a flight of fancy. There is nothing to suggest that and I suspect that the Norwegians also respect the division between Church and State.

[Fiannan]

I think the part about requiring Priests to perform these marriages is just a flight of fancy. There is nothing to suggest that and I suspect that the Norwegians also respect the division between Church and State.

You might want to examine the assumed powers of the state in much of Europe. Scandinavia and central Europe (unlike England and to a degree France) are not as influenced by the philosophical traditions of libertarians such as John Locke.

[Maya]

Perhaps that is next item for America there, Mailis?

I SOOOO HOPE that USA at least manages to keep the strait way, but it scares me!

Mokisha..here the state and Church are not separated.... and the stateschurch= lutherans HAVE TO marry anyone who asks tobe married or they are out of work and with a peanut in their hands!

DrT...I think the idea of sosilism is fantastic! But as long as Jesus is kept out of it and it is not christian socialism it will never work, ther will always be those that surpress the othersand there will be fights and envy! Real chritian socialsim is what Jesus teachesand it bases on love NOT on that no one should have morethan an other! Not evryone will be a teacher or bake bread or a doctor... christian socialism should give everyone work they enjoy and everythign they need will be given to them. Sometimes you might need a holiday in a sailboat... someone else would prefer gliding.... I am sure this all couldbe arranged AND I am sure no one would love doing nothing as everyone else is working... now it is justa run for more $$$. Someone gets to survive someone overfload...someone none at all... sharing is missing.

[Fiannan]

Don't worry, when Islam takes over Scandinavia all these laws pertaining to allowing same-sex marriage will be repealed -- along with a lot of other things.

[RachelleDrew]

"lesbian couples will qualify for state funded fertility treatment."

Wow! State funded fertility treatment?

I'm not going to say anything. I'll just leave it at that.

Fertility treatments shouldn't be state funded for anyone in my opinion. Straight or gay,

[Moksha]

Mokisha..here the state and Church are not separated.... and the stateschurch= lutherans HAVE TO marry anyone who asks tobe married or they are out of work and with a peanut in their hands!

Would this only apply to the Church of Norway? Wikipedia lists them as the only state sponsored religious group.

From OneNewsNow: About 85 percent of Norway's 4.7 million people are registered as members of the state Lutheran Church of Norway, although far fewer are active. Since the church is split on homosexual marriage, the church is likely to allow each congregation to decide on whether to allow homosexual wedding ceremonies, as it did last year in allowing parishes to decide whether to accept clergymen living in homosexual partnerships.

From GayLink:

The new law would also allow, but not oblige, the Church of Norway and registered religious communities to bless same-sex marriages.

[Fiannan]

Fertility treatments shouldn't be state funded for anyone in my opinion. Straight or gay,

Actually, in the case of Sweden and Norway ALL medical treatments are state-funded. So if you need IVF there are no private sperm banks to go to -- in Sweden this is all done at university hospitals. So the state is totally in charge. When a heterosexual couple with a sterile husband, or one with genetic defects, goes in for sperm donation the doctor will try to find a donor who resembles the husband -- I think with consultation with the couple. If it is a lesbian couple the doctor will choose the donor since a match up according to looks for the non-birthing partner would not work. However, the operative term here is not choice.

Recently, a couple was turned down for IVF because the husband was too fat. This again shows that if you give the state all the power then choice goes out the window. Yes, you get medical care for basically "free"(well, it comes out of your taxes) but in the case of fertility treatment you have to follow their guidelines.

[Lost_one]

No one should be forced to do anything against there beliefs. Im not saying im against same sex marriage, as the way i see it, if they want to get married then go ahead, do what you want. Its your choice, Just dont force others to do something they dont feel right about. Respect other peoples right to choose as well. This is a case of "My rights are more important than your rights" so do what your told, or there will be trouble.

Well you know what they say. Give them an inch and they will take a mile.