Do non-mormons go to hell

[abqfriend]

Here is an interesting link on Sheol and possible meaning in the past and how that evolved into our NT version of "hell."

"

By examination of the Hebrew Scriptures it will be found that its radical or primary meaning is, The place or state of the dead"

"These passages show the Hebrew usage of the word sheol, which is the original of the word "grave" and "hell" in all the examples cited. It is plain that it has here no reference to a place of endless torment after death. The patriarch would scarcely say, "I will go down to an endless hell to my son mourning." He did not believe his son was in any such place. Job would not very likely pray to God to hide him in a place of endless torment, in order to be delivered from his troubles."

"It is plain, then, from these citations, that the word sheol, "hell," makes nothing for the doctrine of future unending punishment as a part of the Law penalties. It is never used by Moses or the Prophets in the sense of a place of torment after death; and in no way conflicts with the statement already proved, that the Law of Moses deals wholly in temporal rewards and punishments."

Source: The Origin and History of the Doctrine of Endless Punishment

-something to think about.

-Carol

-

Word Search: hell

26 hits for the word "Hell" in the OT.

As opposed to 16 for the NT. (This does not include "perdition" "damnation" "lake of fire")

However, according to Strong's Concordance, the word from which Hell is translated, Sheol, appears more often, having 65 occurrences.

They definitely believed in an afterlife.

[VisionOfLehi]

I think that they make it clear the Hell itself is not a good place to be.

But, the word Sheol, from what I understand, refers more to the afterlife, which was believed to have 2 parts: Paradise and Prison.

I use those terms for the two concepts, because that is what LDS believe, as well. Before Heaven even, there is the spirit world which consists of Spirit Paradise and Spirit Prison.

I think the 2nd quote I provided early is a good source for that, but I have read it elsewhere.

[MrNirom]

I see Hell as being eternally separated from God-Whom I equate with Love.

That would be hell enough for me.

Why Carol.. there is another thing we have in common. That is the definition of the telestial kingdom.

109 But behold, and lo, we saw the glory and the inhabitants of the telestial world, that they were as innumerable as the stars in the firmament of heaven, or as the sand upon the seashore;

110 And heard the voice of the Lord saying: These all shall bow the knee, and every tongue shall confess to him who sits upon the throne forever and ever;

111 For they shall be judged according to their works, and every man shall receive according to his own works, his own dominion, in the mansions which are prepared;

112 And they shall be servants of the Most High; but where God and Christ dwell they cannot come, worlds without end.

113 This is the end of the vision which we saw, which we were commanded to write while we were yet in the Spirit.

[John316]

This makes more sense than the views of my church. I just have a hard time believing that Gandhi is in hell while the Son of Sam will be in heaven (he became a Christian while in prison for those who don't know).

\QUOTE]

It is impossible to rank sin. To God, all sin to matter how big or small we think it is, separates us from Him. That is why our Savior Jesus Christ was sacrificed on the cross so that with belief in him, we can go to heaven. It is very important to remember that we are all sinners. Without God's only son, Jesus to stand judgement for us, we can never be in God's presence.

"for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that cam by Christ Jesus. God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement through his faith and blood." Romans 23:23-25

"For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it." James 2:10

"I am the way and the truth and the life. NO one comes to the Father except throught me. If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well." John 14:6

[prisonchaplain]

This makes more sense than the views of my church. I just have a hard time believing that Gandhi is in hell while the Son of Sam will be in heaven (he became a Christian while in prison for those who don't know).

Our ticket to heaven is the blood of Jesus. So, if Gandhi refused God's love, rejected the prompting of the Holy Spirit, and believed that his brilliant mind, and non-violent approach to political revolution measure up to and earn him a place in heaven, in lieu of Christ's blood, such hubris might indeed be unforgivable! What an insult to the Lamb of God, what a devaluation of his unmerited love and sacrifice!

On the other hand, is there really any sin, truly repented of, that, nevertheless, is too great that Christ's blood could not cover it? And, if there is, then perhaps we are all too arrogant, imagining that our particular sins are forgivable, whereas those of another (even Son of Sam) are not?

IMHO, your church is right, and our poor vision is an unworthy competitor to God's judgment and mercy. And, btw, which is more offensive...God's mercy to the Son of Sam, or his judgment on a talented soul that rejects him?

[puf_the_majic_dragon]

Our ticket to heaven is the blood of Jesus. So, if Gandhi refused God's love, rejected the prompting of the Holy Spirit, and believed that his brilliant mind, and non-violent approach to political revolution measure up to and earn him a place in heaven, in lieu of Christ's blood, such hubris might indeed be unforgivable! What an insult to the Lamb of God, what a devaluation of his unmerited love and sacrifice!

On the other hand, is there really any sin, truly repented of, that, nevertheless, is too great that Christ's blood could not cover it? And, if there is, then perhaps we are all too arrogant, imagining that our particular sins are forgivable, whereas those of another (even Son of Sam) are not?

IMHO, your church is right, and our poor vision is an unworthy competitor to God's judgment and mercy. And, btw, which is more offensive...God's mercy to the Son of Sam, or his judgment on a talented soul that rejects him?

Did Ghandi ever reject Christ? Did he ever have the opportunity to really hear and accept the Gospel? I don't know, and I suspect that nobody on this earth truly does know the intentions of his heart. Nor, I think, does anyone of us know the intentions of the Son of Sam and whether his heart was truly repentant or not. No church, and in my opinion, NO CHURCH AUTHORITY can claim to know who God has accepted or not.

I will point out that many scriptures ( Alma 39 for one) tell us or otherwise infer that the shedding of innocent blood is one of those (if there truly is such a thing) "unforgivable sins". Therefore, any church that thinks that such a man as David Berkowitz who confessed to killing 6 people in cold blood is going to the same heaven as Abraham or Moses is.. well... in my opinion... well I'll just call it "silly" and "junk" in place of the other more ardent adjectives I might choose.

[mikey9a]

The answer is yes, though I don't think there will be actual fire.

If we are to deny the Christ after having been taught the full gospel of Christ then we will have to suffer for our own sins. That is hell!

After we have suffered for our own sins then we will be able to receive the telestial glory promised to us before we came to earth.

[a-train]

Joseph Smith handled the question like this:

Will everybody be damned, but Mormons?"

Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness.

(Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith page 119).

-a-train

[HiJolly]

Well, not to contradict Skal, but I suppose more to clarify, I have heard it said in Conference that those from a higher kingdom will be able to visit lower kingdoms. As far as someone from say the Terrestial kingdom being able to progress into the Celestial kingdom, I've heard both sides of the story, but the general LDS culture suggests that this is not possible. My personal opinion is the opposite, that everyone (except sons of perdition) can progress eternally but for those in lower kingdoms it takes longer. A quick search on LDS.org doesn't elaborate, however I'm open to any revelatory references on the subject.

According to LDS doctrine, once the resurrection (and final judgement) has occurred, then there is no more movement between kingdoms. HOWEVER!!!! I challenge anyone to show exactly WHEN we are resurrected. I think this is a very individual event, and is only arrived at after the individual has progressed as far as they ever would. Nobody (especially Heavenly Father) is slamming the door on anyone. Ever.

HiJolly

[Guest bren1975]

Do all non-Mormons go to hell?

Not a simple answer. We've already had the discussion about Paradise and Spirit Prison--the two parts of the spirit world. The simple answer is that no non-LDS will go to Paradise. Joseph Fielding Smith wrote in "Doctrines of Salvation", (Vol. 2, p. 230) "the righteous--meaning those who have been baptized and who have been faithful--are gathered in one part and all others in another part of the spirit world."

That other part is Spirit Prison. It's called that simply because the spirits there are not free to leave yet. It's in Spirit Prison that all those who have not had a chance to accept the true gospel are being taught. If they accept it, then once their ordinances have been done (by proxy here on earth), they are then free to move into Paradise, where they will wait for the resurrection and final judgement.

That brings up the question--are these people all co-mingling with the unrighteous and evil spirits? Are they in hell? Joseph Fielding Smith also wrote, (same source, p. 229) "They have their anguish of soul intensified, if you plese, when they get on the other side, because they are constantly recalling to mind their evil deeds. They are aware of their neglected opportunities, privileges in which they might have served the Lord and received a reward of restfulness instead of a reward of punishment."

This says to me that those who wait in Spirit Prison will be in various degrees of "hell" of their own making. Those with a history of much evil will have the torment of their own memories. Those who are there simply because they never heard of Christ, or did the best with what they were taught, will be in a much better situation. They will have no regrets, and just need to be taught the gospel.

Therefore, IMO, not all Spirit Prison is the hell we all think of. For some, yes, but not for others.

And, not all LDS will go to Paradise.

One final thought: No little children are sent to Spirit Prison. All children who die before the age of accountability, go to Paradise. "Fear not, little children, for you are mine, and I have overcome the world, and you are of them that my Father hath given me;" (Doctrine and Covenants 50:41)

Edited August 31, 2008 by bren1975

[prisonchaplain]

Did Ghandi ever reject Christ? Did he ever have the opportunity to really hear and accept the Gospel? I don't know, and I suspect that nobody on this earth truly does know the intentions of his heart. Nor, I think, does anyone of us know the intentions of the Son of Sam and whether his heart was truly repentant or not. No church, and in my opinion, NO CHURCH AUTHORITY can claim to know who God has accepted or not.

Whenever someone says "How can you say Ghandi goes to hell, but the son of Sam goes to heaven?" it is implied that Ghandi died without repenting and embracing Jesus. You are of course right in saying we cannot eternally judge Ghandi. That's God's job.

My response was that we cannot judge God. God says that if you reject his Son you are already condemned. IF He forgives the Son of Sam and condemns Ghandi, on the day of judgment we will all say, "Yay and amen, God is just and most merciful." Nobody will 2nd guess God.

I will point out that many scriptures ( Alma 39 for one) tell us or otherwise infer that the shedding of innocent blood is one of those (if there truly is such a thing) "unforgivable sins". Therefore, any church that thinks that such a man as David Berkowitz who confessed to killing 6 people in cold blood is going to the same heaven as Abraham or Moses is.. well... in my opinion... well I'll just call it "silly" and "junk" in place of the other more ardent adjectives I might choose.

Or King David (who had someone murdered to coverup his adultery)? Or, what of that thief, who died on the cross? What had he done, only to convert at the last minute? And yet, Jesus gives him blessed hope.

Yes, it's a dangerous game to judge already dead souls. But, if I'm asked how a "good person" can be damned and a "bad person" redeemed, I'll point to the shed blood of Christ and declare my God a righteous and merciful judge, perfect in all his decisions.

[Hemidakota]

The answer is yes, though I don't think there will be actual fire.

If we are to deny the Christ after having been taught the full gospel of Christ then we will have to suffer for our own sins. That is hell!

After we have suffered for our own sins then we will be able to receive the telestial glory promised to us before we came to earth.

I usually laugh when I hear the physical aspects of Hell when in fact, Alma the Younger tasted it and described the event.

For those who had there calling made sure and still sin, will come after their own repentance is complete and will inherit the Celestial abode after the Afternoon of the Second Resurrection.

[Hemidakota]

Or King David (who had someone murdered to coverup his adultery)? Or, what of that thief, who died on the cross? What had he done, only to convert at the last minute? And yet, Jesus gives him blessed hope.

King David is currently paying back his deeds [sufferring his own hell] but will be redeemed by the Savior in only receiving half of his glory. The other portion will be given to person of the same name [called by the Savior] in our days.

Smart for the thief to seek repentance when the Savior was next to him.

[Traveler]

Whenever someone says "How can you say Ghandi goes to hell, but the son of Sam goes to heaven?" it is implied that Ghandi died without repenting and embracing Jesus. You are of course right in saying we cannot eternally judge Ghandi. That's God's job.

My response was that we cannot judge God. God says that if you reject his Son you are already condemned. IF He forgives the Son of Sam and condemns Ghandi, on the day of judgment we will all say, "Yay and amen, God is just and most merciful." Nobody will 2nd guess God.

I find the question of Ghandi most interesting. Ghandi was converted to Jesus and the teachings of Jesus but because he felt that most of Christianity did not represent the teachings he decided not to call his conversion Christianity - instead he called the teachings to which he was converted, "truth".

So what does it mean to accept Christ - to call yourself a Christian or to love and live his teachings?

The Traveler

[prisonchaplain]

I find the question of Ghandi most interesting. Ghandi was converted to Jesus and the teachings of Jesus but because he felt that most of Christianity did not represent the teachings he decided not to call his conversion Christianity - instead he called the teachings to which he was converted, "truth".

So what does it mean to accept Christ - to call yourself a Christian or to love and live his teachings?

The Traveler

Let me reiterate my unwillingness to cast judgment on Ghandi. However, I would question those who say, "I love Jesus, but can't stand Christians, and refuse to align myself with them and their doctrines." Christian faith is meant to be lived out in community. Our Scriptures declare that it is hypocrisy to claim we love God when we cannot love one another. So those who proclaim a great love for the Creator, but who put themselves above and separate from his creation--particular those of his creation who actually recognize Him--seem to lack some poverty of spirit, imho.

[mnn727]

Yes, it's a dangerous game to judge already dead souls. But, if I'm asked how a "good person" can be damned and a "bad person" redeemed, I'll point to the shed blood of Christ and declare my God a righteous and merciful judge, perfect in all his decisions.

You'll not only be wrong, you'll also push more and more people further away from God.

[mikey9a]

I usually laugh when I hear the physical aspects of Hell when in fact, Alma the Younger tasted it and described the event.

That is one of the most vivid depictions of afterlife that touch me. When I read his description of the hell that he suffered and could but only cry out that Jesus would save him gives me the shivers. Imagine having to suffer that for an extended period of time.

I pray all will accept the mercies of the atonement.

[richlittell]

BTW...According to your Church...Mother Theresa is in Hell with Ghandi...

ouch!

[richlittell]

I thought it was pretty set doctrine that those in the lower kingdoms can never have an increase. I'm surprised that wasn't brought up earlier (unless I missed it). There may be other ways to progress, such as knowledge or spirituality, but since they aren't married or given to marriage in the lower kingdoms, they'll never have that complete salvation.

My take on that anyway.

[Hemidakota]

I am very curious if Joseph Smith ever taught this - no progression since Intelligence described by Abraham were selected by our Heavenly Father. So what state dd they reside prior? Though, I am still looking for it as a reference.

[richlittell]

I am very curious if Joseph Smith ever taught this - no progression since Intelligence described by Abraham were selected by our Heavenly Father. So what state dd they reside prior? Though, I am still looking for it as a reference.

Hi Hemi,

could you recomment or restate your question? I don't follow, but it sounds like it would be an interesting question.

[brother01]

Hope I'm not speaking up too soon, but tubaloth's statement here tripped my meter:-)

We believe in the LDS church that Christ’s Atonement is for all people (living or Dead) we believe that everybody should have the chance to hear the “Good news” or the Gospel of Jesus Christ. So the spirits that know about Christ and his Teaching actually go to the other side and teach those that didn’t know. It truly shows God’s love for all his Children.

Might I ask you to discern this from the teachings of Jesus? In particular I recall that of the 'Rich man and Lazarus' story, that neither party could go from one side to the other. As I recall the teachings about the great 'gulf' between relate to the 'abyss' that the fallen angels are caught in for leaving their first estate.

[Hemidakota]

Rich, when we look at the term progressioin, I was referring to the Intelligence that were selected by the FATHER to make his sons and daughters that was of a lesser order. What was their previous state to make it to this level of awareness, in order to be given a chance to inherit a spirit body? Joseph receive D&C 132 revelation and it contains the fact that those who receive less than the Celestial Kingdom will not be able to obtain the state were GOD or GODs reside. However, looking back at the past with the state of intelligences in progessing and using John the Revelator comment, was given certain information about a "white stone" that will be given to each soul who is assigned to the celestial kingdom: "To him that over-cometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it", does give new meaning that there is higher order than the Celestial state.

For more clarity concerning the 'White Stone', Prophet Joseph Smith explains, the meaning of the white stone to be given those who are entitled to receive it. Said he: "the white stone mentioned in Revelation, 2:17, will become a urim and thummim to each individual who receives one. Whereby things pertaining to a higher order of kingdoms will be made known; and a white stone is given to each of those who come into the celestial kingdom, whereon is a new name written, which no man knoweth save he that receiveth it. The new name is the key word."

The importance of the "white stone" is more fully understood when it is realized that the presence of God, is "on a globe like a sea of glass and fire." The place where God resides is a great urim and thummim. This earth in its sanctified and immortal state, will be made like unto crystal and will be a urim and thummim to the inhabitants that dwell thereon, whereby all things pertaining to an inferior kingdom, or all kingdoms of a lower order, will be manifest to those who dwell on it; and this earth will be Christ's."

Even if there is progession from the telestial to another, the Godhead will not be there but moved on for those who think they can reached that level. As Elder Bruce McConkie wrote:

KINGDOMS PROGRESS IN DIFFERENT DIRECTIONS. Now let us see how faulty this reasoning is. If in time those who enter the telestial glory may progress till they reach the stage in which the celestial is in now-then they are in celestial glory, are they not, even if the celestial has advanced? That being the case (I state this for the argument only, for it is not true), then they partake of all the blessings which are now celestial. That means that they become gods, have exaltation, gain the fulness of the Father, and receive a continuation of the "seeds forever." The Lord, however, has said that these blessings, which are celestial blessings, they may never have; they are barred forever!

The celestial and terrestrial and telestial glories, I have heard compared to the wheels on a train. The second and third may, and will, reach the place where the first was, but the first will have moved on and will still be just the same distance in advance of them. This illustration is not true! The wheels do not run on the same track, and do not go in the same direction. The terrestrial and the telestial are limited in their powers of advancement, worlds without end.

Only at times, I will not agree with what is said by Elder McConkie, this happens to be one of them. Progression on both ends of the spectrum is seen, whether it is Intelligences or matter that GOD cannot create, or those higher kingdoms as Joseph Smith described, what happens in between is not very clear and what is term eternal. We do not have the fullness of information to equate what is eternal as to a linear line of time.

Edited September 4, 2008 by Hemidakota

[Vort]

I know very little about the LDS Church. Do you believe that non-mormons go to hell?

Yes, and so will Mormons unless they repent.

[richlittell]

Hemi,

That was insightful and food for thought, thanks for taking the time to post that. :)

cheers