Bible, Which version?

[Snow]

The light is getting brighter.

PC - I keep wondering when you are going to run for office. You are as tactful as a politician (the good ones).

[Maureen]

...A fourth major impact of the Bible is the effect it has had on the moral character of its readers. John Richard Greene long ago wrote of the changes that it first brought to England:

“No greater moral change ever passed over a nation than passed over England during the years which parted the middle of [Elizabeth’s reign] and the meeting of the Long Parliament. England became the people of a book, and that book was the Bible. … Far greater than its effect on literature or social phrase was the effect of the Bible on the people at large. … The whole temper of the nation felt the change. A new conception of life and of man superseded the old. A new moral and religious impulse spread through every class.” 6

And that force continues today. The power and influence of that message which teaches God’s creation of earth and man, of the preparations which preceded the coming of God’s Son, of an Eternal love so great that this Son would take up man’s burden of sin and lay down his life in exchange, of Christ’s teachings of love and meekness—these are the truths which are slowly spreading into the darkest corners of the earth. And wherever those truths are accepted and practiced, there is change for the better and the ground is prepared for the reception of the fulness of the gospel.

Perhaps the best evidence of the power and influence of the biblical message lies in the witness of how bitterly it has been denounced—even in modern days. Adolph Hitler saw it as a threat to his ambitions and, among his own people, revised the New Testament and sought to destroy the Old. 7 In private he said, “Whether it is the Old Testament or the New, or simply the sayings of Jesus, it is all the same old Jewish swindle.” 8 During his time in power, in some occupied lands, churches and their Bibles were burned. Nevertheless, the Bible remained a fountainhead of strength for those Hitler could not break. One bishop from an occupied land who had been imprisoned for non-cooperation said in retrospect of that period:

“The Bible was the weapon of our souls. It was with us in suffering, it fought for us, and our foes feared it. Why did they hate that very old book? For the same reasons we ourselves loved it. … Because the Bible spoke to us as a voice closer to our trembling hearts than any other voice. … This small book is the charter of peace, the charter of freedom, the charter of the future life of mankind.” 9

The struggle still goes on. In parts of the world today, the Bible is still denied. In schools in certain lands the Bible is officially branded as “unscientific,” a “collection of fantastic legends,” and a “tool of imperialistic, capitalistic powers for subjugating backward, unknowing nations.” 10

But these very attacks are a testimony of its strength and power, and when people who have been denied it again gain access to its strength, the Bible is reembraced with a touching devotion. One man held as a prisoner behind the Iron Curtain said that when at last he was given a requested Bible, “I treated it as one treats a priceless possession, a thing of great value, a rare treasure. … It gave me strength and assurance for what to my knowledge at that time were the interminable years ahead.” 11

In spite of the continual war fought against the Word of God, the work of putting the Bible into every man’s hands and into every language continues.

The goal of the typical Bible society, usually a collaboration of numerous different Christian denominations, has been to take a translated Bible to every people—a work which deserves our praise and gratitude. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints does not make translations of the Bible itself at this point, but chooses carefully a translation available in a particular language for use among its members who speak that language.

The translation of the Bible into non-European languages began very early. One of the first translations, a rendition in an American Indian dialect, was completed in 1663. 12 Since then the Bible, or portions of it, have been translated into so many languages that it has been called the “book of a thousand tongues,” though its translations have now far exceeded a thousand. It has been translated into every major language, and the effort in more recent years has been to translate it into even the remotest dialects of the earth—in many cases into dialects where previously there was no written language at all. 13

Obviously, this work is tedious and fraught with many obstacles. It is reported for example, that it took almost a hundred years to produce an entire Bible in the Tibetan language. 14 Though such an interval is rare, “many years” is the common time required for each new translation.

But the sacrifices required are measured in far more than time alone. Translating the Bible into the language of a remote tribe usually requires that someone first take the trouble to live among those people in their primitive conditions—to win their trust, to learn their language, and to convince them that there is a gift of knowledge that will serve them well. Extreme care must attend each translation, for the idioms and customs of isolated peoples are often very different from those of the Hebrews who recorded the scriptures and from those who made the first translations. There must be careful sensitivity to the unique experience of each distinctive culture.

One example of the sensitivity required pertains to the Zanaki people, who live on the eastern shores of Lake Victoria in Tanzania. In translating the Bible there, it was found that only a thief would knock on the door of a Zanaki hut. If the thief then heard a movement within, he would run away. The good man does not knock, but rather calls to his friends inside. Respecting the implications of these customs, Revelation 3:20, which speaks of Christ knocking for entrance into our lives, was wisely rendered in the Zanaki language, “Behold, I stand at the door, and call.” 15

The experiences of Adoniram Judson, a Christian missionary who made the Burmese translation, is typical of the challenges modern-day Bible translators face. He explains:

“When we take up a language spoken by a people on the other side of the earth, whose very thoughts run in channels diverse from ours, and whose modes of expression are consequently all new; when we find the letters and words all totally destitute of the least resemblance to any language we have ever met with, and these words not fairly divided, and distinguished, as in Western writing, by breaks, and points, and capitals, but run together in one continuous line, a sentence or paragraph seeming to the eye but one long word; when, instead of clear characters on paper, we find only obscure scratches on dried palm leaves strung together, and called a book; when we have no dictionary and no interpreter to explain a single word, and must get something of the language before we can avail ourselves of the assistance of a native teacher—that means work.” 16

The work of translation also cost Judson twenty-one months in prison because of the Burmese dislike for Europeans. While he was in prison he became concerned for the manuscript he had been working on. His wife hid it for a time in their house, but as the rainy season approached they feared it would be severely damaged by mold. Therefore they felt that the best place for it after all was with Judson in prison. Mrs. Judson hid it in a roll of hard cotton which was sewed into a pillow. Judson slept on this uncomfortable pillow for months—only to have it stolen from him. The thief later threw the contents of the pillow away, and by some great fortune these contents came into the hands of a Christian convert. Although he did not at first realize that what he had was the manuscript of the Bible translation, he kept it, only much later discovering the value of this treasure. The manuscript survived to obtain its hard-earned place in the Burmese Bible. 17

Any story that deals with the sacrifices made in bringing the Bible to the nations of the world would be incomplete without mention of the many people from all faiths who have labored earnestly to bring better comprehension to its study. There are archaeologists, sifting through sands and ruins for clues that might enlighten us; there are those who have scoured high and low for ever more ancient manuscripts; there are those who refine their knowledge of important original languages; and finally there are those who struggle to decipher newly discovered manuscripts. While some of these students have unfortunately fallen into misunderstandings and thus clouded man’s perceptions, nevertheless many studies have had beneficial effects in broadening our understanding.

We appreciate the dedication of all those searchers who have pursued the Testaments’ purer origins. But the knowledge of the cost of those intense pursuits should work in us an even greater gratitude for those divine gifts which facilitate our understanding of the Bible....

...In more recent years, other ancient manuscripts have come to the general knowledge of mankind, manuscripts which are now restoring to a wider audience those same truths earlier given through the Prophet Joseph Smith. Dr. Nibley quotes Professor Albright as authority that the Dead Sea Scrolls alone have been an invaluable source in the restoration of material lost from the biblical record. Says Professor Albright, “Future translations [of the Bible] will have to expand the text substantially—including … some [passages] of great importance for their content.” 19

Thus we must remember that our scriptural heritage is not only a work of sacrifice by man, but also a great gift of love from the Lord himself. As the record was God’s gift from the beginning, so through earth’s ages he has seen to its preservation, and in his own ways and in his own time has restored that which he knows we are ready to receive.

As long as man continues to dwell outside God’s presence, the search for his word and the meaning of his word must continue. For it is still a major access to him. Thus we Latter-day Saints ourselves in recent years have labored diligently in producing an extraordinary English-language edition of the King James Version containing helps and scriptural references unavailable in any other edition. Roger Coleman of the Cambridge University Press, who helped with the work of printing, said of the Latter-day Saint edition, “Nothing is perfect in the world … but this Bible is as nearly perfect as human beings can manage.” 20

It is indeed a magnificent work. And it too is a product of sacrifice. The dedicated scholars who labored on this project to its fruition gave all that was required—from depths of vision to tedium. Not the least of what they gave was patience, for the work took seven years. But they did not labor alone. They relied upon hundreds of workers, from faculty members to returned missionaries to seminary and institute teachers who were mobilized for challenging, painstaking assistance. One volunteer alone gave as much as 2,000 hours of dedicated service, refusing any compensation. Another did computer work between 2:00 a.m. and 4:00 a.m. to minimize expenses on the project. The result of all these offerings is our opportunity to know, understand, and love the word of the Lord at a newer, higher level. 21

And now in contrast to medieval church leaders who feared the people’s possession of the Bible, access to this edition is encouraged by leaders who yearn that the people not only possess it but study it and understand it.

Conclusion

Throughout this series we have tried to trace those forces which have unitedly worked to channel God’s teachings to his children. In our tracings we have particularly sought to emphasize the love and sacrifice behind those labors. But we have of necessity portrayed as well the counter movements seeking always to inhibit the spread and effectiveness of the Lord’s word. It is still suppressed in much of the world. Where there is free access to it, its voice of influence struggles to be heard over constant bombardments of false ideologies. And while free access to the Bible has indeed caused it to suffer somewhat from abuse and misunderstanding, it has unquestionably suffered most from abandonment. But its messages are abandoned at great peril. For it represents eternal truth—truth passed down from the very Creation, truth added upon and reinforced with experience, truth revealed through word and deed beforehand, truth shaped in unforgettable language, truth personified in Jesus Christ, truth in constant struggle against untruth. And ultimately, it will be truth unconquered and unconquerable. Every gift of love and sacrifice which has been offered to relay that truth to men shall not have been given in vain.

Lenet H. Read, “How the Bible Came to Be: Part 8, The Power of the Word,” Ensign, Sep 1982, 64

M.

[prisonchaplain]

PC - I keep wondering when you are going to run for office. You are as tactful as a politician (the good ones).

I actually do aspire to be a School Board Director some day.

[puf_the_majic_dragon]

Wow Maureen, you gonna come up for air any time soon?

I think the easiest way to resolve this is with the 2nd Article of Faith:

"We Believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly..."

Who decides whether a translation is correct? Secular scholars? Apologists? Denominationalists? NON-denominationalists? Missionaries? Prophets?

[Maureen]

My point of the article was to show some (mainly Traveler) that his own church does not see the process of Bible translations as some kind of evil conspiracy, but as a means to facilitate our understanding of the Bible.

[Traveler]

My point of the article was to show some (mainly Traveler) that his own church does not see the process of Bible translations as some kind of evil conspiracy, but as a means to facilitate our understanding of the Bible.

Maureen: I have attempted to make my posts as benign as possible. I am not trying to talk about any church but I am trying to make a point about truth and what is fact and what is fantasy. Some points:

1. Traditional Christianity – in particular Traditional Trinitarian Christianity did not preserve the ancient scriptures to any degree of well or acceptable to me. This is not a function of time because there are many ancient records that were preserved very well during this same time period. For lack of a better term I would call the effort appalling at best. We also know from history that the Traditional Trinitarian Christians has a hand in destroying the Alexandrian library which is by itself the most appalling act of man to attack and destroy ancient literal works of man (including the scriptures we speak of) and sparked what historians call the Dark Ages.

2. There are no English translations of the Bible. All the works are versions and for all my research there are no versions of the Bible (ancient or modern) or any of its books that are authorized by G-d. It can be argued that the versions we have are “inspired” but it cannot be argued that they are any more inspired than secular text – such as the Constitution of the United States of America.

3. There are, for all practical purposes, no translations of any ancient biblical texts. We are, in essence at the complete mercy of so called scholars. Having visited the open forums for Christian discussion – I would say the most common phrase used in discussion on any topic or doctrine is that scriptures are being quoted out of context. My point here is that the Bible as we have it today is NOT an accepted authority on doctrine, despite what various individuals may claim. The reason is because the Bible is not clear on the doctrines and the context of doctrines. It is still considered the realm of scholars even in our day and time. Yet it is not at just at our “lay” level but even at the level of highest scholarship that disagreement abounds. An appeal to biblical scripture versions is not now nor has it ever been a resolution to different understandings of the sacred, organizations, doctrines, ordinances, covenants and practices of Christians.

4. All versions of the Bible, both ancient and modern are known to have errors and differences from other versions. This is not my opinion – but fact.

I agree that the Bible is a sacred record, I believe everyone should read the Bible in at least several different versions. I believe there is much good, inspiration and even learning of G-d and his works from a careful and prayerful study of the Bible. I do not believe that the Bible is the only, the main or even the best means of becoming one with G-d. I do not believe the Bible is enough to direct Christians in all the ways of G-d (some definitely but not all) and those Christians that believe that the Bible is enough will have their reward – and I am sure they will be pleased with their reward. But I believe, and this is most important to this discussion, that one’s relationship to G-d can and should go FAR beyond what the Bible can offer.

The Traveler

[Maureen]

Traveler:

I agree that the Bible is a sacred record, I believe everyone should read the Bible in at least several different versions. I believe there is much good, inspiration and even learning of G-d and his works from a careful and prayerful study of the Bible.

I would have never guessed that from reading your previous posts, they gave the opposite impression.

I do not believe that the Bible is the only, the main or even the best means of becoming one with G-d. I do not believe the Bible is enough to direct Christians in all the ways of G-d (some definitely but not all) and those Christians that believe that the Bible is enough will have their reward – and I am sure they will be pleased with their reward. But I believe, and this is most important to this discussion, that one’s relationship to G-d can and should go FAR beyond what the Bible can offer.

I agree.

[Vort]

"I'd rather be a could-be if I cannot be an are; because a could-be is a maybe who - is reaching for a star. I'd rather be a has-been than a might-have-been, by far; for a might have-been has never been, but a has was once an are." - Milton Berle

I'd rather watch PG-13 than ever watch an R,

'Cause PG-13 films don't leave as deep a moral scar.

I'd rather watch PG than PG-13 films, by far,

'Cause PG's close to G, while PG-13's almost R.

- Vort

[Moksha]

I believe everyone should read the Bible in at least several different versions. The Traveler

Some of the Bibles seem like (Koine) Greek to me.

...there are no versions of the Bible (ancient or modern) or any of its books that are authorized by G-d.

One only needs to turn to the title page to confirm this.

[Maureen]

Vort - you're somewhat of a poet and you somewhat know it? I think Milton Berle's ditty is quite clever and have thought it would be a great mantra for William Shatner. :)

Edited July 19, 2008 by Maureen

[prisonchaplain]

On a slightly different,but very similar track, if I read the Easy-to-Read Book of Mormon, can I tell my LDS friends that, "Yes, of course I've read the Book of Mormon?"

[Vort]

The "easy-to-read" Book of Mormon is called The Book of Mormon. (Technically, I suppose it's now The Book of Mormon: Another Testament of Jesus Christ.) Many parents, including my wife and me, teach their children to read from its pages. It's already written in plain, easily-accessible language. Dumb it down and you remove much of the gospel message.

Only my opinion, of course. But I happen to be right.

[california_ave]

It can be argued that the versions we have are “inspired” but it cannot be argued that they are any more inspired than secular text – such as the Constitution of the United States of America. ...I agree that the Bible is a sacred record, I believe everyone should read the Bible in at least several different versions.

I'm confused by these two sentences--hopefully I didn't take them out of context. I want to understand your view of how the Bible is "inspired" or not. If I understand you, the books of the Bible as originally written were the inspired word of God, consistent with Paul's admonition to Timothy " All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works." Then, because we don't have the originals (autographs) and dirty hands have corrupted the texts we do have, the Bible is not as pure as the original word? So the Bible we are left with, would you say is no better than inspired secular text (e.g., Constitution) in bringing us closer to God, or is the Bible we have still sacred text and Paul's admonition still applies?

[california_ave]

On a slightly different,but very similar track, if I read the Easy-to-Read Book of Mormon, can I tell my LDS friends that, "Yes, of course I've read the Book of Mormon?"

Good question. A Muslim would argue that an English Koran does not exist--a translation of the sacred text may exist, but the new rendition is not the Koran. Mormons would not be as strict, but would accept as official any Book of Mormon currently published by the LDS church (or alternate publisher where the text was identical--e.g., DoubleDay, or Desert Book). Anything different would require a modifier, such as the Book of Mormon "Reader" or the "RLDS" Book of Mormon, or the "First Edition" Book of Mormon.

I'll wait for your point.

[prisonchaplain]

On a slightly different,but very similar track, if I read the Easy-to-Read Book of Mormon, can I tell my LDS friends that, "Yes, of course I've read the Book of Mormon?"

I should have included a link, so you'd know better what I was talking about.

Amazon.com: Easy-To-Read: Book of Mormon: Lynn Matthews Anderson: Books

[Snow]

Wow Maureen, you gonna come up for air any time soon?

I think the easiest way to resolve this is with the 2nd Article of Faith:

"We Believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly..."

Who decides whether a translation is correct? Secular scholars? Apologists? Denominationalists? NON-denominationalists? Missionaries? Prophets?

Ah - do you believe the Song of Solomon to be the word of God, even when correctly translated?

[california_ave]

Ah - do you believe the Song of Solomon to be the word of God, even when correctly translated?

JS made both the statement in the 2nd article of faith and the statement that Song of Solomon is uninspired, so have Joseph explain the apparent dilemma you point out. A subject for another post is a discussion on why the "uninspired" Song of Solomon is quoted in the D&C. What is your point Snow? Do we infer JS is a contradictory liar, or that the Bible still contains the Gospel of Christ despite the flaws?

[Snow]

JS made both the statement in the 2nd article of faith and the statement that Song of Solomon is uninspired, so have Joseph explain the apparent dilemma you point out. A subject for another post is a discussion on why the "uninspired" Song of Solomon is quoted in the D&C. What is your point Snow? Do we infer JS is a contradictory liar, or that the Bible still contains the Gospel of Christ despite the flaws?

Infer whatever you like. I was questioning the poster on their beliefs.

My particular view is that when we say "translated," we really mean redacted-edited-transmitted-selected/canonized-and-translated.

[Traveler]

I'm confused by these two sentences--hopefully I didn't take them out of context. I want to understand your view of how the Bible is "inspired" or not. If I understand you, the books of the Bible as originally written were the inspired word of God, consistent with Paul's admonition to Timothy " All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works." Then, because we don't have the originals (autographs) and dirty hands have corrupted the texts we do have, the Bible is not as pure as the original word? So the Bible we are left with, would you say is no better than inspired secular text (e.g., Constitution) in bringing us closer to God, or is the Bible we have still sacred text and Paul's admonition still applies?

All scripture is inspired as given to man by G-d. Interestingly there are no original scriptures (autographs or autograms). This includes all of our LDS standard works. The hand written documents that are the D & C were lost and only some printed pages were saved by two little girls. Not only do we not have the "golden plates" but the first written manuscripts were all but lost and all that is left is the printer's copy. No one knows for sure about the documents from which Abraham and Moses was translated.

I find it rather odd that written scripture has such a difficult time remaining with mankind in the pure state in which it was given; especially the scriptures given as part of covenant and associated commandments and laws. The entire structure of the "Kingdom" is missing from the Biblical scriptures and is so misunderstood that many modern Christians no longer even think such is now worthwhile or ever was important.

The Traveler

[california_ave]

I find it rather odd that written scripture has such a difficult time remaining with mankind in the pure state in which it was given; especially the scriptures given as part of covenant and associated commandments and laws. The entire structure of the "Kingdom" is missing from the Biblical scriptures and is so misunderstood that many modern Christians no longer even think such is now worthwhile or ever was important.

The Traveler

Interesting observation. Maybe we don't need the autographs:

"Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart." 2cor3:3.

Maybe the scriptures are for us to use as a Urim and Thummim to receive our own revelation directly from God so our lives can be shaped by doing God's word. Maybe it didn't matter if Joseph used the plates or a peepstone--the source was still from God. So it is for us, it doesn't matter if we use the KJV or NIV--both imperfect renditions are capable of inspiring revelation from God. The Word is more important than the words.

[Traveler]

Interesting observation. Maybe we don't need the autographs:

"Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart." 2cor3:3.

Maybe the scriptures are for us to use as a Urim and Thummim to receive our own revelation directly from God so our lives can be shaped by doing God's word. Maybe it didn't matter if Joseph used the plates or a peepstone--the source was still from God. So it is for us, it doesn't matter if we use the KJV or NIV--both imperfect renditions are capable of inspiring revelation from God. The Word is more important than the words.

The Urim and Thummim as well as the Liahona function only upon principles of righteousness. True righteousness not only requires that we do good things of love and compassion but that we live them by covenant with G-d through his appointed servants. For living by covenant with G-d is the spirit of prophesy. You have discovered a great secret – the errors in scriptures are a insurmountable stumbling block to all that do not covenant with G-d to live as his saints.

Perhaps it is for the sake of our trials acconding to our covenants that we do not have autographs or autograms to testify for or against us.

The Traveler

Edited July 20, 2008 by Traveler

[jsmithwasaprophet]

We are instructed to use the KJV, but a tenet of our faith admits there are translation errors. How do we reconcile this dilemma? Should we as LDS seek out a Bible that is translated more correctly? Joseph Smith said he preferred Luther's German Bible.

The English language is an imperfect language. The temples are constructed of imperfect material. The Book of Mormon and Bible are written in an imperfect language and its authors frequently emphasize this. We do not require a perfect construction of a building or a language for it to be acceptable. The only thing that matters is whether it is a catalyst to cause you to feel the Spirit, which will enhance your relationship with Christ.

I have seen too many people lose this spirit, and fall away from the church because of their inability to accept imperfection in this broken, fallen and telestial world we all live in. Even in the church.

[WANDERER]

Having been taught that the KJV is the inspired word of God and all else is not (fundamentalist charismatic sect) I find the discussion interesting. Even to use a concordance or Greek translations was to understand the KJV inspired version better....not to consider original translations better. The 'change not one single word' was generally conveyed to have meant the KJV version. Even many light years away from those perceptions I've still laboured under the belief that the KJV was 'more authoritative'.

Eeek to all of the above. Especially when the intention of publishing the KJ version (or at least one of them) was to make the Bible accessible in the common language of the time. That is worth restoring.

[Avrham]

sorry for the late entry but i believe the best copyof the bible is one that makes sense spiritual/reasonable to the reader(any copy) original/copy any langauge its like everything else you make your own call(with a bit of help from God) what ever works for you

[Traveler]

sorry for the late entry but i believe the best copyof the bible is one that makes sense spiritual/reasonable to the reader(any copy) original/copy any langauge its like everything else you make your own call(with a bit of help from God) what ever works for you

This is a perfect example of what I do not understand and think is wrong concerning the Bible and the many versions we have today. Many claim that the Bible is from G-d (which is one G-d). When we versionize the "way" we add to the loss of unity and oneness both among believers and G-d. Often when we versionize a truth we do so in a manner that we place ourselves at the center of things - making the entire effort to see a "selfish" effort.

The purpose of learning of Christ is to turn away from our "selfish" nature to one that can see with new eyes that is enlightened and not selfish.

The Traveler