Tragedy at Mountain Meadows to be released

[Elphaba]

It appears the book many of us have been waiting for, literally for years, is going to be on the shelves next month.

It is called the Massacre at Mountain Meadows. The following new story describes how the writers had access to materials that no one had previously had. However, these materials have now been released, in the same manner as the Joseph Smith letters.

The following are excerpts from the Deseret News' story:

Book Confronts LDS Tragedy

Carrie A. Moore

Deseret News

As they meticulously pieced together what some are calling the most complete history ever written of the Mountain Meadows Massacre, much of the agony was in the irony for three Latter-day Saint authors.

"What did the terrible atrocity say about the killers?" who were led by local LDS Church leaders in southern Utah. "What did it say about their church and its leaders? Did early Mormonism possess a violent strain so deep and volcanic that it erupted without warning?"

. . . .

Unlike many previous LDS accounts of the tragedy, it portrays the wagon train emigrants passing through southern Utah in September 1857 as ordinary people with bright futures and some flaws rather than as scoundrels who somehow deserved to die.

Instead of defending the perpetrators — as some both inside and outside the LDS Church believed the book would do — it names the local LDS leaders and their dark deeds in detail, culling from affidavits given to a 19th century church historian by those who participated in the slaughter or learned of it firsthand. The information, which has never before been available to researchers, came from archives owned by the LDS Church, including those of the faith's First Presidency.

What the book doesn't do is implicate then-LDS Church President Brigham Young in directing or ordering the killings. It does describe how his wartime preaching and that of other top LDS leaders contributed to the atmosphere of unquestioned authority, conformity, fear and suspicion that ended with terrible, "unexpected consequences."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I know I've been waiting for this for years. I don't recall the actual dates, but I think I heard it was going to be released in 2005, and that didn't happen. Then it was 2006 and then 2007, and it still didn't happen. So I admit I am very happy to hear it is finally ready for the shelves.

(If I have the years wrong, it is my mistake. Perhaps it just has seemed that long.)

Elphaba

[Snow]

It's about time. I notice it was on Amazon.com a couple weeks ago but it was advance orders only.

I wonder if I can get an autographed copy at Benchmark Books?

[pam]

I would like to read this book. I think it will be an amazing story to read.

[Palerider]

I need to finish my other book so I can get this....:)

[siouxz72]

Thanks, Elphie! I would like to read this book as well.. Church History is one subject that I'd really like to start delving in to and have just not yet. Oh sure, I've read The Work and The Glory....but that's not really history. lol! :) Do you have any other books that someone just starting out studying actual church hisory should read? Can you PM me a list? or post it here so others interested will have the list, too...

[peanutgallery]

Thanks. I am anxious to read this. My great great grandfather's twin brother lived down there at the time and was not involved. He was attacked and beaten because some of the men who were involved found out he had given food to the wagon party. It wasn't something the church condoned or he would not have helped them.

At least they were prosecuted and punished for what they did. I never heard about anyone who was at Haun's Mill being prosecuted.

[goofball]

Great another book to add to my never ending list of books. However that is never a bad thing.

[InTheDoghouse]

Elphaba,

Thanks for posting the link to the article on the book Massacre at Mountain Meadows. I believe your dates are correct, or near so at least. They have been working on this book for years, as I submitted some information to Richard Turley at least 5 years ago. I have had an interest in the Mountain Meadow Massacre, because of an ancestor who was killed there, and have read all that was previously written on the subject. I can't wait for the release of this book finally.

I loved the point that the authors have noted about the time period that the massacre took place and the "wartime hysteria mentality". I hope this book explains that so that people may understand the situation that surrounded the people of the time.

Again, thanks for the post and the link!

[unixknight]

Hopefully it'll help clarify those events in a much more honest way than that ridiculous September Dawn movie...

[NeuroTypical]

At least they were prosecuted and punished for what they did.

They were? From what I've read, only John D. Lee was ever prosecuted...

LM

[Doctor Steuss]

[...]

(If I have the years wrong, it is my mistake. Perhaps it just has seemed that long.)

Elphaba

It has indeed been "that" long. In fact, you are being generous with your years; as early as 2003 Gene Sessions was tempting some of us by saying that it was finished.

I believe I've run out of steam as far as anticipating it... especially when you consider this is only volume 1 that is being released. I assume volume 2 will be released around the time Christ returns.

[Elphaba]

Thanks, Elphie! I would like to read this book as well.. Church History is one subject that I'd really like to start delving in to and have just not yet. Oh sure, I've read The Work and The Glory....but that's not really history. lol! :) Do you have any other books that someone just starting out studying actual church hisory should read? Can you PM me a list? or post it here so others interested will have the list, too...

Hello my kindred soul,

All you have to do is visit my profile where I've listed many of my LDS history books.

My favorite is Mormon Enigma: Emma Hale Smith. You'd love that--I don't know any woman interested in the early church's history from Emma's perspective who hasn't loved it.

Also on your reqired list is Bushman's Rough Stone Rolling. In fact I can"t tell you which to read first as they both provide unparalleled insight.

I also recommend the Porter Rockell book as you and your dad could sit and have a pow wow about onr of the the most colorful charcthers in LDS history.

One book I love is Levi Petersen's Junita Brooks: Mormon Woman Historian. It is a biography about her uncanny ability to work on what many still call the definitive work on the MMM. So it is not about Mormon history per se, but Juanita the member, wife, and children, is also one of one of the most profound historians the Church has ever had.

Truly, Emma and Juanita are my LDS heroes.

BTW, I'm using one hand to type so I'm not gonna go back and fix the errors...hope you can read this.

Luv you always, Elphie

[Elphaba]

It has indeed been "that" long. In fact, you are being generous with your years; as early as 2003 Gene Sessions was tempting some of us by saying that it was finished.

I believe I've run out of steam as far as anticipating it... especially when you consider this is only volume 1 that is being released. I assume volume 2 will be released around the time Christ returns.

Hello my Son! I have missed you so!

I've seen you out and about but I don't post. (You all can pick your jaw up from the floor! 'Tis true I am not nearly as prolific elsewhere. )

I know a few people loathe Bagley's book, but I think it is better than nothing while waiting. I admit I didn't know there was going to be a second book!

Or perhaps they could reccommend the Work &T Glory, picking up where it describes the MMM. Hmmm, on second thought, maybe not.

It's great to see your freakazoid face again.

Love to you,

Bestest mother in the world, except for that one incident where I left you at Church. :p

Elphie

[Elphaba]

Hi Doghouse,

Would you feel comfortable writing a small post about what you suggested to Turley, et al? I love to see examples of someone who was there, whether as the culprits, or the murdered. I am sorry to hear about your ancestor.

I loved the point that the authors have noted about the time period that the massacre took place and the "wartime hysteria mentality". I hope this book explains that so that people may understand the situation that surrounded the people of the time.

I agree. I think the Southern settlements were especially terrified of angry people coming from the south, the west, and the north. Who wouldn't be terrified in these circumstances, as they were right--a good number of these people wanted to do whatever necessary to destroy the Mormons."

I also think it's far more complicated, and hopefully at least the first book can give us a comprehsive picture.

I have visited the site, and felt such sorrow as I read the list of those who had died. It was a very profound experience for me, to look out through the scope to see the land where the massacre occurred.

I also have visited Jacob Hamblin's house, who I believe was more involved than people know. No, he did not participate in the massacre. But I believed he was part of the coverup. Even worse, he took in some of the children, but his wives wore a few of their mother's dreses, which traumatized the children even more. This just astounds me.

However, one little girl's arm was practically destroyed by a bullet, and I believe it was one of Hamblin's wives who saved her and her arm. I'd have to look that up. Nothing is as black and white as we'd like.

So while I agree with you, that fear was the major factor, I also believe it was a sense of revenge, and that the Reformation and Blood Atonement played a part as well.

Anyway, that's my two cents. There are a lot of things that came together, to make the "perfect storm," and fear was certainly a huge factor.

Did they respond to your offer of material?

Elphaba

Edited July 21, 2008 by Elphaba

[Moksha]

It does describe how his wartime preaching and that of other top LDS leaders contributed to the atmosphere of unquestioned authority, conformity, fear and suspicion that ended with terrible, "unexpected consequences."

Elphaba

Which war was that?

Thank goodness for this book. Defenders at MAD will no longer have to bad mouth the folks who were massacred.

[Elphaba]

Which war was that?

Actually, the reporter is the person who said that. I assume it was the Utah War, where the Saints did not know if they were going to be attacked or not. They even took their belongings and moved south, so that when the soldiers entered the territory, every one was gone.

Luckily, that confrontation was bloodless, and ended fairly amicably.

What the book doesn't do is implicate then-LDS Church President Brigham Young in directing or ordering the killings. It does describe how his wartime preaching and that of other top LDS leaders contributed to the atmosphere of unquestioned authority, conformity, fear and suspicion that ended with terrible, "unexpected consequences."

I'm glad to hear that. I think that has been conspicuously downplayed in the past.

I also think it is worth mentioning that Bagley wrote much of the same, but it was not very well-received, if I remember correctly.

I realize Bagley is more convinced of the "possibility" Young was more involved than anyone would admit, and I don't see that included in the book, as I don't think there is any evidence of such.

However, Bagley was correct about the fanaticism of The Reformation and Blood atonement.

And frankly, no one I've talked to, or MAD posts I've read, would admit the zealous nature of what the people were hearing in the pews that played a large part in the MMM as well. The only person I saw acknowledge this was a history professor, Gene Sessions. Perhaps there are others, but I can't think of any at the moment.

(Since I am a shameless name dropper, Gene was my American history professor, and I thoroughly enjoyed him. I'll never forget when he said "the women's movement started back east, headed west, hopped over Utah, and finally made it to the west coast. )

Thank goodness for this book. Defenders at MAD will no longer have to bad mouth the folks who were massacred.

I seriously hope you are right. Visiting the site really triggered my PTSD. If I'm thinking about it, I have to go look at butterflies or turtles, or watch Johnny Depp as Jack Sparrow, to take my mind off of it.

Elphaba

Edited July 21, 2008 by Elphaba

[MormonGirl02]

I would like to read this book. It sounds very interesting.

[Moksha]

Actually, the reporter is the person who said that. I assume it was the Utah War, where the Saints did not know if they were going to be attacked or not. They even took their belongings and moved south, so that when the soldiers entered the territory, every one was gone.

Elphaba

Didn't this massacre happen before this? Or perhaps was a precursor to Federal troops being sent to Utah? I am just wondering which came first. If that wartime preaching was done during a time of peace, does it make it "war-like preaching" instead?

[Elphaba]

Didn't this massacre happen before this? Or perhaps was a precursor to Federal troops being sent to Utah? I am just wondering which came first. If that wartime preaching was done during a time of peace, does it make it "war-like preaching" instead?

Hi Moksha,

The Utah War was from 1857-1858, and the MMM was September 11, 1857.

Therefore, the wartime preaching, which was based on the Army coming to Utah, hit the area at exactly the same time as the MMM, and IMO, played a major roll in it, as the Saints were all in a heightened state of fear.

I think I said this earlier, but I actually think the Southerners were almost paralyzed with fear, much more than the northerners. This is just my intuition only. However, the Southerners felt vulnerable from all sides, whereas the northerners had everyone there in charge and were able to evacuate Salt Lake City in a fairly orderly manner.

Things were obviously not this organized in the South; in fact, I believe it was nearly nonexistant, and think that is an integral factor in the MMM.

But, again, that's Elphaba's version of events.

Elphaba

[InTheDoghouse]

Hi Elphaba,

Your knowledge on the subject is very impressive, you have done your homework that is for sure. I was quoting the article you posted when I used the phrase "wartime hysteria" for that was the mentality of the people involved and played an integral part in the actual frenzy that took place.

I always hate the fact that people refer to the Utah War as a war that was bloodless, because I feel that (IMHO only) Mountain Meadow is really a part of that war and should be counted as casualties suffered therein.

As far as my information being used in the book, it will not be included. I do not have the necessary documentation to back up any of my story, but I am sure of the truthfulness of it. For this reason my ancestors name is also not on the plaque on the monument. I am fine with this, because I totally understand the need for more concrete evidence before one could be added.

My personal story is probably too long to post so I will message you with it if you are interested.

I am so excited for this new book. I was excited when the article was published in the Ensign last year. The publication of that article opened the door for discussion in church, something that 5 years ago when I taught seminary I was told was TABU to discuss. Immediately following that article we had a YSA fireside and I was asked to speak to the young adults on the subject. It was a wonderful evening and I do believe that everyone went away with many questions answered. This is a big step for our church, as the article you posted stated, showing "maturity and confidence to be able to come to terms with their past."

I will keep a close watch out for this book!

[Moksha]

While waiting for the book, here is a good overview of the Utah War:

Utah War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Doctor Steuss]

Hello my Son! I have missed you so!

I've seen you out and about but I don't post. (You all can pick your jaw up from the floor! 'Tis true I am not nearly as prolific elsewhere. )

I know a few people loathe Bagley's book, but I think it is better than nothing while waiting. I admit I didn't know there was going to be a second book!

Or perhaps they could reccommend the Work &T Glory, picking up where it describes the MMM. Hmmm, on second thought, maybe not.

It's great to see your freakazoid face again.

Love to you,

Bestest mother in the world, except for that one incident where I left you at Church. :p

Elphie

Ah shucks mumsie, I've missed you too.

There's one thing about Bagley's book. It is very well researched... to the point to where it's his fatal flaw. He provides so much evidence that it ends up not supporting some of his assertions (Seriously though, when you read it, do you ever stop at some points and say "How in the world did you come to that conclusion based on the evidence you just gave?").

Luv, Hugs, and VW Bugs,

Yer Son from another Mum

[Doctor Steuss]

While waiting for the book, here is a good overview of the Utah War:

Utah War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also, for those who want to read about OPR, but are adverse to Schindler's biography, Dewey's biography has a rather large section that covers the Utah War fairly well (at least he doesn't have the same habit of imagining participants into situations in that portion of the book as much as he does with OPR elsewhere).

[Elphaba]

I always hate the fact that people refer to the Utah War as a war that was bloodless, because I feel that (IMHO only) Mountain Meadow is really a part of that war and should be counted as casualties suffered therein.

That is an excellent point. I must admit, I never thought of it that way.

Isn't it interesting how one new thought can provide a puzzle piece that is so obvious, but only when someone else gives it to you. Thank you for that.

My personal story is probably too long to post so I will message you with it if you are interested.

I would be delighted if you would send me your story. I love this stuff, so if you're up to it, I would be very grateful.

Having been a lover of Mormon history for years, I used to "argue" with my family that the Church would do itself a favor if it would let its more difficult points in its history available to its members. I believed doing this would take out the sting that can sometimes happen. And, of course, for people like me who love the Church's history, this openess is a goldmine.

Therefore, I think it is wonderful the Church is making its history, including the evidence, and even the grey areas, to anyone who is interested. And yes, the "sting" is turning into fascinating moments in LDS history, rather than weapons the person thinks is going to destroy testimonies.

I live in a part of Utah that is just now being developed, but there are still pristine areas where I'll drive by and realize the pioneers lived here, doing whatever necessary to survive, and obey their God. It takes my breath away.

Elphaba

[Elphaba]

There's one thing about Bagley's book. It is very well researched... to the point to where it's his fatal flaw. He provides so much evidence that it ends up not supporting some of his assertions

(Seriously though, when you read it, do you ever stop at some points and say "How in the world did you come to that conclusion based on the evidence you just gave?")

No, I admit I didn't. In fact, I found his research to be thorough, and still believe it provided insights and perspective that enhanced Brooks' research.

And to be honest, I find the criticism of his book to be a bit spiteful, and from the little bit Turley, et al have disclosed, I think Bagley has been vindicated in some areas.

That is not to say I agree with everything he wrote. I do not share his belief that it is possible Brigham literally ordered the massacre. However, as was noted in the article, the writers do now acknowledge Brigham's actions ultimately contributed to the hysteria that resulted in the massacre (hysteria is my word, not theirs).

I've always believed the Reformation and fiery exhortations about Blood Atonement played a huge part in the massacre, and Bagley says the same. I believe Bagley has been vindicated once again on this point.

That is not to say I agreed with everything. One incident Bagley wrote about, and with which I strongly disagree, is the words Brigham uttered while ordering the soldier's cairn destroyed.

The journals of the moment do not support Bagley's version, and I do not judge this to be a small thing.

And again, Bagley's belief that Brigham could have ordered the killings is not supported by the evidence, in my opinion.

It's been so long since I've read Bagley's book I cannot think of anything else that I strongly disagreed with. If you feel like it, if you wrote a post about those items with which you disagree, I'd love to take a second look.

Love and huge hugs,

Mom