TheyCallMeMom Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 we are just trying to get caught up.. lately we have just enough to cover our basic bills.. and I mean basic this will change by next month, but in the meantime havent been paying tithing.. I feel terrible.. and I feel like others who know are judging me for it.. sublte comments in conversation, looks etc... its not that I dont want to pay.. but I just cant right now.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunkyTown Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 Nobody knows if you're paying tithing, Mom. o.O Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utcowboy Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 The choice to pay tithing or not is yours, no one else has the right to judge you! That being said we have all heard the stories of people paying their tithing first and some how being able to cover all their other basic needs. When we follow the counsel we are given the Lord will provide for us. Again the choice is yours, but if it were me, I'd pay my tithing first, knowing the Lord would provide me with what I need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenamarie Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 How would they know you haven't been paying tithing? If you think your ward financial clerk has been indiscreet, you could approach your Bishop about it, but otherwise only he and one of the councilors of the Bishopric, and probably your Bishop if you've had any interviews with him lately, will know that you aren't paying tithing. Perhaps it's your own guilty feelings that's causing you to "see" judgement towards you that isn't actually there? If you DO however feel that people genuinely DO know that you aren't paying, and you know that you didn't personally tell them, then talk to your Bishop so he can find out who's been sharing that private information with the ward. It is between you and the Lord whether or not you are paying your tithing, no one else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truegrits Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 First, do not worry over others judgemennt of you. It is not their place to judge anyone but themselves. No one but you know your true circumstances. There is no set WAY to pay your tithe. I know some that pay, in full, at the end of the year. Some pay every week; some every two weeks, etc. If you are going through a tough time, you catch it up as you can. I know that HF is aware of all our struggles, that He loves us, and that if we trust in Him, have the faith that He will be there for us, we WILL be blessed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarginOfError Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 I just got asked to compile a list for my bishop of all the members in our ward who pay no tithing. Let me tell you, it was the most awful thing I've ever done in the Church. I'm not sure why I hated doing it, but I did. But I feel reasonably confident that anyone who doesn't feel awful about knowing who is and isn't paying tithing probably isn't someone whose opinion you should care about. My advice to you, pay your tithing, go to your Bishop, explain that you don't have enough money to pay the bills and pay the tithing, and so you're paying your tithing and ask for help. He might have some Fast Offering funds or something to help you get by the hard times. When you are stable again and no longer require the assistance, make sure you pay a generous Fast Offering because someone else will be in your situation at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeuroTypical Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 I feel terrible.. and I feel like others who know are judging me for it.. sublte comments in conversation, looks etc...I was an executive seceretary for 3+ years, and a ward financial clerk for a year. I used to sit at the computer with a member of the Bishopric and open envelopes and tally numbers and make deposits. In no way whatsoever did I ever pay attention to who was and who wasn't paying. I second the suggestion that you meet with your Bishop. I'm reasonably certain he will not throw a chair at you and yell and scream. :) Seriously, I would trust he would be very understanding, compassionate, and even helpful.LM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacey_Jay Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 No one has the right to judge you or make you feel guilty for not paying tithing-including yourself! Its an intensely private and personal thing. Loudmouth, why would you need a list of people who didnt pay? Im just curious as to what the bishop would do with that information. Ive always felt uncomfortable with the way tithing is handled and processed. I think there should be like a collection jar like they do in other churches-it would have to be cash-that people can donate anonymously. I really dont get tithing settlements and such. Really, why do they have to know? I think anonymous donantions are better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stampede Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 we are just trying to get caught up.. lately we have just enough to cover our basic bills.. and I mean basicthis will change by next month, but in the meantime havent been paying tithing.. I feel terrible.. and I feel like others who know are judging me for it.. sublte comments in conversation, looks etc... its not that I dont want to pay.. but I just cant right now..Let me tell you a story.Whem my wife and I moved in together both of us were working with no bills and we were always in the hole. we would go into debt like crazy and it never seemed to come out even at the end of the month.When i started going back to church we Got married, she quit her job and it was just my income. We have never been happier. I don't know how it worked but i am able to take care of my family. I know the Lord looks out for you when you put him First.We always pay our tithing and we have never gone in the hole with HALF the income we had before and with more bills.Pay your tithing First, go to your bishop and ask him for assistance if you are really in need. Always ALWAYS pay your tithing. the Bishop can help with neccesities such as food. But always pay your tithing First. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maureen Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 Stacey_Jay:I think there should be like a collection jar like they do in other churches-it would have to be cash-that people can donate anonymously. I really dont get tithing settlements and such. Really, why do they have to know? I think anonymous donantions are better.But what about claiming those donations at tax time? If someone contributes, let's say, $4000.00/year as tithing; that's a considerable amount to ignore at tax time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prospectmom Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 At church yesterday there was posted at Relief Society on the board the followung statement.. " Titrhing isn't a matter of money it's a matter of faith" I am not currently paying tithing but I know I would be better blessed if I did and hope to do better in the future..... I am not sure compiling a list of payers and non payers is in compliance with the church Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarginOfError Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 Stacey, it was me who had to compile the list of tithe payers, and there were some other things I had to look at. The primary question was who in the ward may be in need of help. We have a lot of low-income families in our ward, but we have a huge surplus of Fast Offering funds. The Bishop and Stake President wanted to see if they might be able to glean some information on who might be in need of help. Even though that was the intent, it was still rather intimidating to look at the list of tithe and non-tithe payers. For whatever reason, it just isn't information I want to know. But oh well. Tithing and donations aren't kept anonymous for several reasons. One of those reasons is for tax purposes. However, those tax benefits don't necessarily apply around the world. The larger reason is so that members can be sure that the Church is actually getting the money they are donating, and to prevent leaders from embezzling the money. Tithing settlement at the end of the year serves a few purposes. The first is for each member to declare him or herself a full tithe payer. This is repetitive for members who have temple recommends, but it's the only chance non-temple recommend holders have to make this declaration. The second is for the members to get a chance to address concerns and questions about tithing to the bishop. This also allows the bishop to teach members about the uses of tithing and touch base with each member on their financial situation. Tithing settlement can be as much about Fast Offering as it is about tithing. Finally, it's a chance for the members to verify their records against those of the Church. There was a ward in Southern California where the Bishop took off with a lot of money that he'd embezzled from tithing and fast offering. General Authorities came to the ward and chastised the members for not verifying their records and holding the bishop accountable. Essentially, the members were just as guilty as the embezzling bishop, and all were equally responsible for Church funds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VisionOfLehi Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 No one has the right to judge you or make you feel guilty for not paying tithing-including yourself! Its an intensely private and personal thing. Loudmouth, why would you need a list of people who didnt pay? Im just curious as to what the bishop would do with that information. Ive always felt uncomfortable with the way tithing is handled and processed. I think there should be like a collection jar like they do in other churches-it would have to be cash-that people can donate anonymously. I really dont get tithing settlements and such. Really, why do they have to know? I think anonymous donantions are better.Why? Because you need to be giving the Lord his dues if you want to get into the temple. And if you're being honest, then you have nothing to hide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 . I think there should be like a collection jar like they do in other churches-it would have to be cash-that people can donate anonymously.You mean the collection plate that is passed around from person to person so that everyone in the church can see just how much you did or did not put in the plate? I think the way the church handles collections is perfect. I will second what Loud Mouth said about paying attention to who pays or doesn't pay. It simply isn't done when the tithes are counted. Everyone has much better things to do than to look at each tithing slip and compare it to the membership of the ward to decide who is or isn't a full tithe payer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningStar Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 I went to visit my friend's Lutheran church when her baby was baptized and it was really embarrassing when this lady stood in front of me with the collection plate and I had to tell her no. Then she kept standing there a while longer, I guess not realizing I was a visitor. I had no money with me and rarely carry cash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 I just got asked to compile a list for my bishop of all the members in our ward who pay no tithing. Let me tell you, it was the most awful thing I've ever done in the Church. I'm not sure why I hated doing it, but I did. But I feel reasonably confident that anyone who doesn't feel awful about knowing who is and isn't paying tithing probably isn't someone whose opinion you should care about.My advice to you, pay your tithing, go to your Bishop, explain that you don't have enough money to pay the bills and pay the tithing, and so you're paying your tithing and ask for help. He might have some Fast Offering funds or something to help you get by the hard times. When you are stable again and no longer require the assistance, make sure you pay a generous Fast Offering because someone else will be in your situation at some point. Let me offer this hypothetical situation. Say the Bishop has two families that need help. Both are equal in their needs..both need the same amount of financial assistance. But he only can help one. Only one family pays tithing. Would the decision be to offer assistance to the family that is paying tithing and making that sacrifice or to the family that doesn't. Perhaps that is a reason he needed this type of list. Instead of asking you specifically about the two families he was considering he asked for a list of everyone so as to at least keep the confidentiality of the two families involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moksha Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 Loudmouth, why would you need a list of people who didn't pay? I'm just curious as to what the bishop would do with that information. This question intrigues me too. MarginofError: Finally, it's a chance for the members to verify their records against those of the Church. There was a ward in Southern California where the Bishop took off with a lot of money that he'd embezzled from tithing and fast offering. General Authorities came to the ward and chastised the members for not verifying their records and holding the bishop accountable. Essentially, the members were just as guilty as the embezzling bishop, and all were equally responsible for Church funds. Sounds like shifting the blame. An embezzler could always send out valid record reports to the members. The real culprit here would be no valid audit or reporting system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connie Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 No one has the right to judge you or make you feel guilty for not paying tithing-including yourself! Its an intensely private and personal thing. Loudmouth, why would you need a list of people who didnt pay? Im just curious as to what the bishop would do with that information. Ive always felt uncomfortable with the way tithing is handled and processed. I think there should be like a collection jar like they do in other churches-it would have to be cash-that people can donate anonymously. I really dont get tithing settlements and such. Really, why do they have to know? I think anonymous donantions are better.I think we need to remember that tithing is a Commandment and not a suggestion. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 No one has the right to judge you or make you feel guilty for not paying tithing-including yourself!This is an amazing statement, Stacey. Do you really believe that a person does not have the right to feel guilty about failing to keep his/her covenants? I find that attitude astounding.Ive always felt uncomfortable with the way tithing is handled and processed. I think there should be like a collection jar like they do in other churches-it would have to be cash-that people can donate anonymously.I get a significant tax break every year by claiming my tithing and offerings as charitable donations. I would not be able to do that if things were done as you suggest.I really dont get tithing settlements and such. Really, why do they have to know?In order to get a temple recommend, you must be a full tithe payer (or at least claim to be such). Records, of which the Lord has repeatedly commanded the Church to keep, help us know whether we are in fact full tithe payers.I think anonymous donantions are better.Those whose duty it is to make such decisions apparently disagree with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarginOfError Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 Let me offer this hypothetical situation. Say the Bishop has two families that need help. Both are equal in their needs..both need the same amount of financial assistance. But he only can help one. Only one family pays tithing. Would the decision be to offer assistance to the family that is paying tithing and making that sacrifice or to the family that doesn't. Perhaps that is a reason he needed this type of list. Instead of asking you specifically about the two families he was considering he asked for a list of everyone so as to at least keep the confidentiality of the two families involved.That might almost make sense except I sign the Fast Offering checks too. There could be other reasons for wanting the knowledge too, such as preparing to split a stake or ward. I've seen reports of how are declared full-tithe payers in those instances because they need to know if each unit has enough Priesthood holders to support itself (all members of the Bishopric and administrative staff must be full-tithe paying Melchizedek Priesthood holders). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarginOfError Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 Sounds like shifting the blame. An embezzler could always send out valid record reports to the members. The real culprit here would be no valid audit or reporting system.If my understanding of the situation was correct, the bishop was under reporting to the Church what members were donating, and pocketing the difference. So the Church's audit system would never have a chance to pick it up. The discrepancies were between the members' copy of slips and what was being reported to the Church. Tithing settlement is where members can verify that both of those records agree. I don't mean to say that the Church didn't go after the Bishop either...they did. But they didn't absolve the members of their responsibility. I'm also unclear of exactly how the bishop managed to get the funds. I'm not sure if he had an accompilce or if he handled the funds alone (a big no-no). So I can't explain exactly what the reasons for the Church's actions are. I just know what they were. Sorry I can't be of more help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 That might almost make sense except I sign the Fast Offering checks too. There could be other reasons for wanting the knowledge too, such as preparing to split a stake or ward. I've seen reports of how are declared full-tithe payers in those instances because they need to know if each unit has enough Priesthood holders to support itself (all members of the Bishopric and administrative staff must be full-tithe paying Melchizedek Priesthood holders). That makes sense as well. I offered the other situation because I have heard of that happening before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarginOfError Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 That makes sense as well. I offered the other situation because I have heard of that happening before.I guess I can see what you suggested before taking place. Just not quite how I'd do it. And since I obviously know everything...yeah, right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 I guess I can see what you suggested before taking place. Just not quite how I'd do it. And since I obviously know everything...yeah, right. haha you're cool. Just leave my gingy alone though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemidakota Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 we are just trying to get caught up.. lately we have just enough to cover our basic bills.. and I mean basicthis will change by next month, but in the meantime havent been paying tithing.. I feel terrible.. and I feel like others who know are judging me for it.. sublte comments in conversation, looks etc... its not that I dont want to pay.. but I just cant right now..Sister, do not ever feel guilty on what had transpired with Tithing....just go see your Bishop and explain to him your circumstances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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