If you are not able to pay tithing

[Misshalfway]

I haven't read this entire thread to I apologize up front.......

To the OP,

I don't know much, but I do know that paying tithing opens the windows of heaven. Our finances are easy problems for the Lord. One of my leaders told me that once and I have never forgotten it.

When we pay all of our bills first and look at each little penny or lack there of :) and then see if anything is left over for the Lord, our faith is in the arm of the flesh. It is difficult to turn our lives over to God like this. It defies common sense sometimes. But this is the stuff miracles are made of!!!

I know that God has blessed my family. I know that He has helped us in the craziest ways. Sometimes I have paid....and then prayed and asked for something specific and that something showed up!!!

I think that seeing your Bishop is a good thing. But strengthening you faith is really the goal of any bishop's advice. Perhaps this financial circumstance is a huge opportunity/invitation for you......something influenced by Father to help you look up.

[Over43]

we are just trying to get caught up.. lately we have just enough to cover our basic bills.. and I mean basic

this will change by next month, but in the meantime havent been paying tithing..

I feel terrible.. and I feel like others who know are judging me for it.. sublte comments in conversation, looks etc...

its not that I dont want to pay.. but I just cant right now..

No one should know what your tithing situation is but you and your bishop. And the Lord. Feeling terrible shouldn't be something you are concerned about. I think that is "Old Scratches" way of pinning us down. When the chance arise start paying your 100% and go from there.

We all go through hard times and do the best we can. I home taught a family once and the bishop "required" them to pay $50 a month tithing. (OK, I knew about that, them, the bishop and me. No one else knew...) From $50 a month it grew to $75, $100, etc. until they were paying what everyone else would consider a full tithe. I was impressed by our bishop, instead of "guilt and shame" he worked with them and built confidence.

Jon

[Maureen]

You mean the collection plate that is passed around from person to person so that everyone in the church can see just how much you did or did not put in the plate?

If you are a member you get an envelope to put your cheque or cash (however you choose) into.

M.

[Maureen]

I went to visit my friend's Lutheran church when her baby was baptized and it was really embarrassing when this lady stood in front of me with the collection plate and I had to tell her no. Then she kept standing there a while longer, I guess not realizing I was a visitor. I had no money with me and rarely carry cash.

It's still a choice. All you have to do is take the collection plate and pass it to the next person. Similar to what non-LDS members do, when the sacrament is passed in an LDS church.

M.

[bytor2112]

If you feel like your situation is going to change soon, you can always catch up......that is still being a full tithe payer. Or maybe pay some toward tithing and make it up before tithing settlement. If you think that would be even more of a burden, then definitely speak to your Bishop.

[MorningStar]

It's still a choice. All you have to do is take the collection plate and pass it to the next person. Similar to what non-LDS members do, when the sacrament is passed in an LDS church.

M.

Yes, but with sacrament it depends on where you are sitting. It's easier just to pass it on if you're sitting somewhere in the middle. In my situation, I was alone in the row thinking my friend's family might come and sit by me and when I very clearly said, "Sorry, no" and shook my head, she moved it closer to me and I felt pressured. And it's a lot easier to say no to eating something than to tell a church that you're not giving them any money, making you look cheap. I think placing money in an envelope and privately handing it to the bishop or mailing it is a more comfortable option.

[Maureen]

Yes, but with sacrament it depends on where you are sitting. It's easier just to pass it on if you're sitting somewhere in the middle. In my situation, I was alone in the row thinking my friend's family might come and sit by me and when I very clearly said, "Sorry, no" and shook my head, she moved it closer to me and I felt pressured. And it's a lot easier to say no to eating something than to tell a church that you're not giving them any money, making you look cheap. I think placing money in an envelope and privately handing it to the bishop or mailing it is a more comfortable option.

I think people are comfortable with what they are used to. It might be hard to believe but nobody really cares what anyone puts in a collection plate. It's a weekly thing, it's part of the service.

M.

[Hemidakota]

No one should know what your tithing situation is but you and your bishop. And the Lord. Feeling terrible shouldn't be something you are concerned about. I think that is "Old Scratches" way of pinning us down. When the chance arise start paying your 100% and go from there.

We all go through hard times and do the best we can. I home taught a family once and the bishop "required" them to pay $50 a month tithing. (OK, I knew about that, them, the bishop and me. No one else knew...) From $50 a month it grew to $75, $100, etc. until they were paying what everyone else would consider a full tithe. I was impressed by our bishop, instead of "guilt and shame" he worked with them and built confidence.

Jon

That is the usual way of helping the members....

[breeb]

Ok..I hope I dont make this too long. I have a very deep testimony of tithing. I'm going to share some very personal information with you all, as I feel we are all truely brothers and sisters and there does seem a genuine love between all of us. My husband has been laid off to many times to count, so I had to go to work. We have decided, after many many many prayers, that he is to use his talents for income. He's an artist. He is working on a childrens book, writing and illustrating. My job pays very little, and now they have cut our hours drastically. We sometimes don't know how we are going to afford groceries. Please know that I am not exagerating. I had to go apply for WIC because we didnt have any money to buy formula for my baby. We had to potty train our 2 year old right away because there was no way we could get him more diapers. We still make sure we pay tithing first, and we have been able to get by. We have the food we need, but no extras. I am addicted to soda (not caffine just soda, any kind of soda). I have had to go without. Im not going to say money has magically found its way into our bank account, but we have been able to get by. SURPRISINGLY.

I want you to know it is almost impossible to pay tithing sometimes. I truely know that from current experience. Im not going to judge or tell you what to do, but I know that we will be blessed for our obedience. Whether we see it right away or not. Believe me, there are times when we wonder whether paying tithing is helping us or not. I know that eventually we will be able to recognize the Lords blessings as long as we continue to faithfully pay our tithing.

I hope this helps and you will be in my prayers.

[Stacey_Jay]

This is an amazing statement, Stacey. Do you really believe that a person does not have the right to feel guilty about failing to keep his/her covenants? I find that attitude astounding.

I get a significant tax break every year by claiming my tithing and offerings as charitable donations. I would not be able to do that if things were done as you suggest.

In order to get a temple recommend, you must be a full tithe payer (or at least claim to be such). Records, of which the Lord has repeatedly commanded the Church to keep, help us know whether we are in fact full tithe payers.

Those whose duty it is to make such decisions apparently disagree with you.

I just feel its our choice whether to do these things or not. They may be commandments but its upto us to decide if we live it.

By the way, what does tax have to do with tithing?????

[utcowboy]

Stacey, you a right, it is our choice to follow the commandments and covenants that we have been given and have agreed to. It is also our choice to receive the blessings or punishment that we will be entitled to also. I don't think it is wise to counsel someone to not keep the commandments, if you want to disregard them, that is your choice, but to tell someone else to forget them?!?!?! Sorry, bad choice!!

As for taxes, here in the US we can deduct any tithing payed from our taxes.... :)

[Connie]

Exactly. We CAN make choices. We CAN'T choose consequences.

[RachelleDrew]

I agree with the others here who have said to make it a point to pay tithes first.

However, I can't quite say that I 100% understand what you are going through. BUT do your best in this situation. Could you perhaps do 5% or even 1% until you become more stable, then make up the difference? I know a couple of families who literally only make a couple hundred dollars a month so they don't give the 10% every time they tithe, but they give something. Then when tax returns come around the majority of their returns go towards settling their tithe for the year. This is something you could also look into.

You do need to go to your bishop and let him know what is going on. Perhaps he can help you out in some way to make it possible for you to pay your tithes? One of the new couples at church told us a story that I think really stresses this. They were both out of work and despondent about not being able to tithe. They let their bishop know, and he saw it necessary to help them out. The fast offering often went to them just so they could buy groceries, and the bishop gave them odd jobs around the church for money that they could in turn use to tithe with. The bishop is there to help YOU out, don't be too proud to let him know what's going on.

Tithing does make a difference in your financial stability, I can promise you this. But i'm sure it's got to be hard making ends meet then to have to look at 10% of your income and know that you need to give it up. But understand that it's not really your money, it's heavenly father's money. To only give him back 10% of the money that is really 100% his is quite the bargain.

If you do decide to continue not paying tithe then that is between you, the authorities and god. Nobody else. Until you do start paying you should really go the extra mile at church and help out where ever you can. If you have enough to eat, then invite the missionaries over. Be the first to volunteer to clean the church. Help out with the various social events. Do whatever you can to help, it doesn't cost a dime to do work for the church.

[candyprpl]

I will share my personal story (for what it's worth)

When I joined the church I was single and on disability. The income from this source is almost a joke. I struggled so much. I was able to receive a small amount of food stamps -- about $25 a month My rent (low income housing) took almost 3/4 of my income. I couldn't afford a phone (of any kind), cable TV -- those would have been luxeries. By the end of the month I was eating rice and beans and water -- no choke. When the Bishop talked to me about paying my tithes I broke down crying and said I would. My sister paid for me to come visit her in CA and I was gone for three weeks when I got home -- I don't know how I made such a blunder -- but I had overdrawn my bank account and I didn't know how I was going to pay my next months rent, let alone any of my utilities. I had a pretty good relationship with the RS Pres. and I called her. She set up a meeting with the Bishop that night. I cried and cried (thinking I was all alone in this situation) and he acted like nothing was the matter. He told the RS Pres. to go grociery shopping for me and then he said that he would pay my rent and utilities and did I have any other unpaid bills. I was shocked, really! He explained that this came from fast offerings. Now this next part explains more how I gained a testimony of paying my tithes. You know that the government never makes a mistake well a week after this incidence I received a letter from my case worker saying that they had made a mistake on how much food stamps I should be getting. The increase was $85 more! And I received back pay (in food stamps) for the months they had shorted me That meant I didn't need to spend any of my check on food, just my bills. Then 4 months later I met a man in church and we were sealed in the Temple. My patriarchal blessing has assured me that I will never be without temporally as long as I stay faithful.

That is my testimony of tithe paying and blessings received from doing so.

[TheyCallMeMom]

thanks for everyones input

yes.. our plan was to pay at the end of the quarter, when money was more consistent and we knew what our income should be.. especially since I work part time on commission..

and I dont know of exact conversations.. but I do know a few people have approached us and brought up subtle, yet obvious conversations about tithing.. part of it may be my conscious, but

I think maybe it was "suggested" to them they talk about tithing in general with us KWIM..

[Moksha]

No one has the right to judge you or make you feel guilty for not paying tithing-including yourself! Its an intensely private and personal thing.

It is intensely personal between you and God. BTW, God wants you to feel love instead of guilt. :)

[VisionOfLehi]

Hmm.

A missionary told me that you should pay tithing, but how often doesn't really matter.

But he added that the more often you tithe, the more often you open up the windows of Heaven to bless you.

So pay when you can, as often as you can. If you can't, tithe with your heart until you can.

[candyprpl]

and I dont know of exact conversations.. but I do know a few people have approached us and brought up subtle, yet obvious conversations about tithing.. part of it may be my conscious, but

I think maybe it was "suggested" to them they talk about tithing in general with us KWIM..

If this is true, I find it quite disturbing. The Bishop is the only one who should be having conversations with you on this subject. Have you had a meeting with the Bishop? (I can't recall if in your previous posts you mentioned it). I think it's important to meet with him and let him know the situation and so peace can come to your mind about your plan to pay at the end of the quarter (?). It's obvious that your talking about it here, that it is a great concern to you. All of us here can say all the right things to try to make you feel better, but it is only our loving Father in Heaven who can really bring you the peace you're seaking. And we know that that comes from sincere prayer to know. And, sometimes we need to talk to His servant down here.

[Vort]

BTW, God wants you to feel love instead of guilt. :)

Amazing, then, that God created us with the capacity to feel guilt, and the scriptures are replete with examples of people being brought to repentence because of their guilty feelings. What do you make of this, Moksha?

[MobyMule]

I would say pay tithing( whatever amount is between you and the Lord) and if you need help with bills go to your Bishop/Branch President. He can free up cash by providing food and other basic needs.

Go the Lord and find out how much would be a full tithe for your family in this time. Once that is done I believe everything else will be ok.

[MobyMule]

If this is true, I find it quite disturbing. The Bishop is the only one who should be having conversations with you on this subject. Have you had a meeting with the Bishop? (I can't recall if in your previous posts you mentioned it). I think it's important to meet with him and let him know the situation and so peace can come to your mind about your plan to pay at the end of the quarter (?). It's obvious that your talking about it here, that it is a great concern to you. All of us here can say all the right things to try to make you feel better, but it is only our loving Father in Heaven who can really bring you the peace you're seaking. And we know that that comes from sincere prayer to know. And, sometimes we need to talk to His servant down here.

Speak to your Bishop. Let him know your concerns and feelings. If he is doing what he should be and you are honest with him it will be ok.

[TheyCallMeMom]

ok so what exactly do I base my tithing on?

income I make from employment? investment earnings? savings? loaned money?

how do I figure this?

[Silver Girl]

There is another reason that the Bishop may request a printed list of who pays and who does not pay their tithing... Some callings require a person to be a full tithe payer, for them to even be called... For instance, my husband could not be the Branch Clerk and 2nd Councellor in the Branch Presidency unless he paid a full tithe...

The reasoning, in my opion, is twofold... First, if he pays tithing, he will have respect for the member's tithes; taking greater care in how he accounts and processes them... Secondly, if he pays a full tithe, he may be less tempted to steal those funds... Someone who has a testimony of tithing would be less inclined to steal the money entrusted to them...

Silver Girl

[Traveler]

The only determination made in the LDS church concerning who pays tithing is the word of the member.

My father was a very wealthy man who came from a poor family of 14 children in a two bedroom one bathroom house. He claimed that there were 3 secrets of wealth – the first secret is to pay tithing.

I have never met a person that paid tithing their whole life that when reaching retirement wished that they had not paid tithing – not one – and that includes me. Of the many that have not paid tithing I have yet to meet one that when reaching retirement did not wish they had been more wise with money regretting their past attitudes.

The Traveler

[VisionOfLehi]

Amazing, then, that God created us with the capacity to feel guilt, and the scriptures are replete with examples of people being brought to repentence because of their guilty feelings. What do you make of this, Moksha?

Transgression gives us the capacity to feel guilt.