LDS Missionary Encounter

[ErikJohnson]

Earlier this week my wife was walking across “Red Square” at the University of Washington campus, and she was approached by an LDS missionary (there were a group of them in the Square attempting to proselytize to students). Now don’t get me wrong—I’m totally in favor of free speech—it’s the content she shared with me that kind of rubs me wrong way. Wanted to see if anyone thinks I’m justified in feeling exasperated about what this young man had to say to my wife.

The young man approached and introduced himself as a missionary for the LDS church. Nothing wrong with that. He then asked my wife if she attends a church. Again, nothing wrong, it’s a fair question. She told him that she and I go to Mars Hill Church (a non-denominational church here in Seattle that is theologically Reformed Baptist). Somewhat surprising to me, the young missionary had heard of our church and had also heard of our preaching pastor, Mark Driscoll. He replied, in a condescending manner, that Mark Driscoll is “quite a character.” Now that gets me a bit, because Mark Driscoll is a preacher of the Word of God, and while by no means infallible—he deserves respect as such, not this young man’s dismissal as merely being “a character.” God has used Pastor Mark and Mars Hill Church to bring the Gospel to a lot of people in Seattle. And while the LDS Church has been closing and consolidating wards within the city over the past decade (eliminating the International Ward and the University 4th)—Mars Hill Church has been growing steadily.

My wife then explained that I used to be LDS and that I became a Christian about three years ago. The young missionary replied—“did your husband serve an LDS mission?” She told him I did not, and he answered, “That was the problem.” He followed up his condescension and all-knowingness by inviting her to attend an LDS Church meeting, which he added, “Would be good for your family” (my wife is visibly pregnant). This last bit made my wife laugh, thinking this would be a long way from good for our family.

Anyway, no real harm done. I do find it exasperating, but a little funny too. The last thing this young man’s superiors would want is for me to show up, Bible in hand, to critique the next Gospel Doctrine lesson in the local LDS ward.

What do you think, is any sense of exasperation on my part justified by the encounter?

--Erik

[utcowboy]

As you were not present and there for hearing it second hand, albeit from your wife. I would have to say that you can have any opinion that you'd like to have. I would have to ask, is you pastor a character? All of us have different traits and present ourselves to the world in different ways. Does he like to use jokes or humorous stories to get his points across? Are you taking offense because it was a young Mormon missionary that pointed this out?

You'd be welcome in my wards gospel doctrine class at anytime and I'm sure that you'd have useful input to the discussion.

All youth have a tendency to not think before they speak and if this young man was familiar with your Pastor, I'm sure he said whatever his impressions may have been.

I am sorry that you found some fault with the church and fell away. I hope that your visits here will help you reconcile your feelings. Best wishes.... :)

[Listener]

We all have warts, my friend.

I recall during my involvement with a non-denominational church, that a 5 week series was run on a Sunday night on why the Mormon faith was a fraud. We opted out after the first night.

I am inclined to be forgiving of the zealous, whatever coat they wear...but I can also learn from their mistakes.

I have the greatest respect for missionaries, but like the rest of us, some are sensitive and some are not.

As an aside, I have found this website to be warm and supportive, even though I came as a Catholic. It was the lack of hard sell, and the gentleness with which my comments were handled, that eventually led me to my baptism.

May you and your new family be happy!

[breeb]

Im going to agree with utcowboy here. Just remember how young this missionary is. Kids say the darndest things.

[NeuroTypical]

The last thing this young man’s superiors would want is for me to show up, Bible in hand, to critique the next Gospel Doctrine lesson in the local LDS ward.

Heh. The last thing my local mega-church wanted, was for me to show up and critique their "Are Mormons Christian" class too.

Major difference - their class is focused on tearing down another's beliefs. Ours is focused on bringing souls unto Christ.

You seem to be quite a character yourself - quite active on the MADB board with topics attacking us for claiming the name Christian, and arguing for the doctrine of the trinity.

That sort of thing is fine for MADB. This website is for explaining things LDS to people who want to know. I'm guessing you already know everything you want to about us, and are merely here to sow dissent.

LM

[goofball]

Why would you take offense at being called quite a character. I find that to be a compliment. All in how you look at it though.

[MorningStar]

Why would you take offense at being called quite a character. I find that to be a compliment. All in how you look at it though.

I think it would depend on the tone, but we don't know the tone the missionary used. :)

Erik, when you use a story like this as an opportunity to plug your church and once again attempt to rub it in how your church is growing and our church is shrinking (supposedly - and what was the point of you mentioning that?), it makes me wonder. And I find it lame that you seem to be threatening to go disrupt a Gospel Doctrine class because you perceive that the missionary was being disrespectful. One of my best friends goes to Mars Hill (different campus), so I'll try not to judge it based on the way you choose to discuss the church with members. :)

[MorningStar]

P.S. Bibles are certainly welcome in Gospel Doctrine class.

[Islander]

Earlier this week my wife was walking across “Red Square” at the University of Washington campus, and she was approached by an LDS missionary (there were a group of them in the Square attempting to proselytize to students). Now don’t get me wrong—I’m totally in favor of free speech—it’s the content she shared with me that kind of rubs me wrong way. Wanted to see if anyone thinks I’m justified in feeling exasperated about what this young man had to say to my wife.

The young man approached and introduced himself as a missionary for the LDS church. Nothing wrong with that. He then asked my wife if she attends a church. Again, nothing wrong, it’s a fair question. She told him that she and I go to Mars Hill Church (a non-denominational church here in Seattle that is theologically Reformed Baptist). Somewhat surprising to me, the young missionary had heard of our church and had also heard of our preaching pastor, Mark Driscoll. He replied, in a condescending manner, that Mark Driscoll is “quite a character.” Now that gets me a bit, because Mark Driscoll is a preacher of the Word of God, and while by no means infallible—he deserves respect as such, not this young man’s dismissal as merely being “a character.” God has used Pastor Mark and Mars Hill Church to bring the Gospel to a lot of people in Seattle. And while the LDS Church has been closing and consolidating wards within the city over the past decade (eliminating the International Ward and the University 4th)—Mars Hill Church has been growing steadily.

My wife then explained that I used to be LDS and that I became a Christian about three years ago. The young missionary replied—“did your husband serve an LDS mission?” She told him I did not, and he answered, “That was the problem.” He followed up his condescension and all-knowingness by inviting her to attend an LDS Church meeting, which he added, “Would be good for your family” (my wife is visibly pregnant). This last bit made my wife laugh, thinking this would be a long way from good for our family.

Anyway, no real harm done. I do find it exasperating, but a little funny too. The last thing this young man’s superiors would want is for me to show up, Bible in hand, to critique the next Gospel Doctrine lesson in the local LDS ward.

What do you think, is any sense of exasperation on my part justified by the encounter?

--Erik

I would not excuse unkind or disrespectful behavior. Missionaries are teenagers with a few week's training about how to search the bible and the BoM, how to organize teaching classes and nothing else. They are as socially inept and clumsy as when they were in highschool. Please accept my sicere apology on behalf of those less than sensitive elders.

I hope you can share my apology with your wife and hope that no harm was done. I take it you are happy with you religious affiliation and that the incident will not affect you or your wife in any other way. It was a less than pleasant encounter but I hope with no other repercussion.

Sincerely

[Silver Girl]

What do you think, is any sense of exasperation on my part justified by the encounter?

--Erik

I do think this young missionary should have handled the situation better... It never hurts one (LDS, EV, Agnostic, Athiest or otherwise) to be kind and polite to others... It is simply good form to do so!! If I were the Mission President's wife (since I can't be the Presdient) I would make sure he was spoken to quite firmly, and told to clean up his act!!

That being said, Erik, if you are upset and concerned over this, how would you feel having your pregant wife accosted by a man dressed as Satan, screaming in her face with a bullhorn that she (and her unborn child) are going to burn in Hell simply because she does not believe as HE thinks she should...??

How about screaming that she is a "whore", throwing copies of the Bible on the ground, spitting on it, waving signs with graphic pictures on them and mocking EVERY one of your basic beliefs...?? And all this while laughing and running the video camera, so they can post the "fun" on YouTube in an effort to make you look like you are an evil cult member... But, you better not get upset!! Because you would be Un-Christian if you did, and afterall, they only do this for your own good... Because they LOVE you!!

Do you think you would be as concerned and upset if that occured?? Or is the situation above okay since it is usually only done to the Mormons??

What Say Ye??

Silver Girl

Edited July 25, 2008 by Silver Girl

[Moksha]

What do you think, is any sense of exasperation on my part justified by the encounter?

--Erik

Yes, It really is best not to critique the religion of others. Sometimes however, the term "character" can be used in an endearing manner. Too bad you did not get him to elaborate. The one thing missionaries of all denominations will do is invite you to church, so no surprise there. It is best if they do it in a friendly and generative manner. :)

Erik, do you still post at MAD?

[Connie]

The only remarkable thing i found in this encounter was that he stated your "problem" was that you never served an LDS mission. Does he think return missionaries are infallible? Don't get me wrong, i have a great admiration for return missionaries. I'm married to one! But return missionaries can fall away just like anybody.

I also find it remarkable that you did not consider yourself a Christian when you were LDS. I have been a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints since i was baptized at the age of 8, and i am a Christian.

[Palerider]

I wonder if we are going to hear more....or was this a one time post.....kinda curious about his response to some of the questions....:)

[goofball]

I am thinking one-timer.

[peanutgallery]

Earlier this week my wife was walking across “Red Square” at the University of Washington campus, and she was approached by an LDS missionary (there were a group of them in the Square attempting to proselytize to students). Now don’t get me wrong—I’m totally in favor of free speech—it’s the content she shared with me that kind of rubs me wrong way. Wanted to see if anyone thinks I’m justified in feeling exasperated about what this young man had to say to my wife.

The young man approached and introduced himself as a missionary for the LDS church. Nothing wrong with that. He then asked my wife if she attends a church. Again, nothing wrong, it’s a fair question. She told him that she and I go to Mars Hill Church (a non-denominational church here in Seattle that is theologically Reformed Baptist). Somewhat surprising to me, the young missionary had heard of our church and had also heard of our preaching pastor, Mark Driscoll. He replied, in a condescending manner, that Mark Driscoll is “quite a character.” Now that gets me a bit, because Mark Driscoll is a preacher of the Word of God, and while by no means infallible—he deserves respect as such, not this young man’s dismissal as merely being “a character.” God has used Pastor Mark and Mars Hill Church to bring the Gospel to a lot of people in Seattle. And while the LDS Church has been closing and consolidating wards within the city over the past decade (eliminating the International Ward and the University 4th)—Mars Hill Church has been growing steadily.

My wife then explained that I used to be LDS and that I became a Christian about three years ago. The young missionary replied—“did your husband serve an LDS mission?” She told him I did not, and he answered, “That was the problem.” He followed up his condescension and all-knowingness by inviting her to attend an LDS Church meeting, which he added, “Would be good for your family” (my wife is visibly pregnant). This last bit made my wife laugh, thinking this would be a long way from good for our family.

Anyway, no real harm done. I do find it exasperating, but a little funny too. The last thing this young man’s superiors would want is for me to show up, Bible in hand, to critique the next Gospel Doctrine lesson in the local LDS ward.

What do you think, is any sense of exasperation on my part justified by the encounter?

--Erik

I don't think calling someone a "character" is an insult. Some of my favorite people are characters and I like them because they are characters. I only hope that someday I can be a character.

I don't think the missionary was insulting when he said your problem was that you didn't serve a mission. People kid each other like that all the time. I can see a BYU alumni kidding around with a friend who is a bad football player and saying something like, "Your problem is that you didn't go to BYU."

It sounds like he was just trying to make some friendly conversation. Maybe, because of things you have said about the church, your wife was a little overly sensitive to some joking.

[ErikJohnson]

Yes, It really is best not to critique the religion of others. Sometimes however, the term "character" can be used in an endearing manner. Too bad you did not get him to elaborate. The one thing missionaries of all denominations will do is invite you to church, so no surprise there. It is best if they do it in a friendly and generative manner. :)

Erik, do you still post at MAD?

Yeah, I would have enjoyed hearing him elaborate. Sadly, I wasn't there and it's all second hand. Potentially "character" was meant in a positive, friendly manner—but that's not how my wife heard the tone. Honestly, I'm amazed he'd heard of Mars Hill. In my experience, those guys were pretty insular--couldn't even read local papers. Guess it's kind of cool LDS missionaries in Seattle are aware of MHC. Really cool, now that I think about it.

Regarding MAD, the moderators told me I was no longer welcome to post in their venue. This was after my Good Friday post. You can go back and take a look at it and judge for yourself. Juliann effectively called me a liar—and when I defended myself, the moderators told me I was no longer welcome to post on their forum. And I've respected that. I've never even checked to see if they actually terminated my account.

Good to hear from you, Moksha

--Erik

[candyprpl]

I don't think calling someone a "character" is an insult. Some of my favorite people are characters and I like them because they are characters. I only hope that someday I can be a character.

I don't think the missionary was insulting when he said your problem was that you didn't serve a mission. People kid each other like that all the time. I can see a BYU alumni kidding around with a friend who is a bad football player and saying something like, "Your problem is that you didn't go to BYU."

It sounds like he was just trying to make some friendly conversation. Maybe, because of things you have said about the church, your wife was a little overly sensitive to some joking.

I think you're probably right on this -- they're nervous and they're just trying to show that they are friendly and don't mean any harm. Now, having said that, they (the missionaries) are approaching strangers and don't know what kind of mood a person might be in and starting out with joking maybe was a poor choice.

[ErikJohnson]

And I find it lame that you seem to be threatening to go disrupt a Gospel Doctrine class because you perceive that the missionary was being disrespectful.

Hi MorningStar--

Good to hear from you, too. Please don't misunderstand me. I'm not making any threats. I'll be going to my own church this Sunday, not showing up at the N. Seattle stake to cause disruption. It was all hypothetical--if the missionary got his wish. He won't. By God's grace, I've a little self control...

;0)

--Erik

[ErikJohnson]

Play nice, please.

Edited July 26, 2008 by john doe

[omega0401]

... inviting her to attend an LDS Church meeting, which he added, “Would be good for your family” (my wife is visibly pregnant). This last bit made my wife laugh, thinking this would be a long way from good for our family.

--Erik

Hard to tell what the missionary was thinking. Even if Mark Driscol is one of those preachers that likes to attack our church and spread lies about our doctrine, still it would be best if the missionary had not said anything. We try to present the gospel we believe in and not tear down other churches.

I'm sorry your wife has such a low opinion of our church and family values. My view is totally the opposite. But we are all different.

[MorningStar]

Hi MorningStar--

Good to hear from you, too. Please don't misunderstand me. I'm not making any threats. I'll be going to my own church this Sunday, not showing up at the N. Seattle stake to cause disruption. It was all hypothetical--if the missionary got his wish. He won't. By God's grace, I've a little self control...

;0)

--Erik

Good to hear. :)

[FunkyTown]

I think there may have been some miscommunication. Mark Driscoll is a pretty famous person and the Mars Hill group is fantastic. But Mark Driscoll -is- quite the character, in a totally non-condescending way.

I remember this last year on Easter when, in order to show people the true suffering that occurred on the cross, they suspended a man on a cross for the duration of his preaching up in the Mars Hill chapel in Seattle. It stirred up quite a lot of controversy.

Mark Driscoll is intelligent, interesting and erudite. I think maybe it was just a miscommunication. I like him, personally.

[bytor2112]

Starting a New Religion?

In keeping with Packer’s line of reasoning, I asked him if those who are “heretical” in promoting homosexual activity while declaring themselves to be Christian are in effect promoting a new religion based upon a false gospel, like Mormonism and the Jehovah’s Witnesses. He said, “You could describe it that way and it’s what they are doing.”- Mark Driscoll

This is from Mark Driscoll......a character indeed. I imagine it is easy to get offended when your wife is married to a "former" church member and attends a church that is Pastored by someone who equates Mormonism as a false gospel..duh.

[bytor2112]

More from Resurgence and Mark Driscoll:

What does Resurgence believe about primary issues?

We are first Christians, second Evangelicals, and third Missional.

1. We are Christians, which distinguishes us from other world religions (e.g. Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, Judaism) and cults (e.g. Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormonism). Therefore, we adhere to both the Apostles' and the Nicene Creeds.

I'd say he is a character alright........do you think he would respect our young missionaries as "preachers of the word of God"? I am sure Mrs. Johnson was exasperated, being approached by a "cult" representative. "All knowing" missionaries???? Labeling the LDS a cult and telling Missionaries that her husband became a Christian three years ago, as if the LDS Missionaries were not?! The story is a bunch of baloney written by someone who has swallowed a bunch of baloney and has the same arrogant attitude that his Pastor has. I live in the South and am surrounded by "all knowing", non- denominational, born again, religious bigots who take it upon themselves to determine who is and isn't Christian.

Edited July 27, 2008 by bytor2112

[FunkyTown]

Bytor? While I love that you're passionate about this, I want to point out something:

The LDS church disagrees with Mark Driscoll on several points he considers key. Of course he calls us false. If he didn't, he would be LDS. Mark Driscoll doesn't hate members of our church. He's a genuinely nice guy who loves his fellow man.

So, to reiterate: Of course he thinks we're wrong. If he didn't, he'd be LDS. That's a fair statement.