bytor2112

Mark of the Beast??

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1 Kings 10:14 Now the weight of gold that came to Solomon in one year was six hundred threescore and six talents of gold,

It has to do with rejecting God in favor of the world. Accepting the secret combinations of Satan into our hearts, just as Solomon did.

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Helaman 5

38 And it came to pass on the other hand, that the Nephites did build them up and support them, beginning at the more wicked part of them, until they had overspread all the land of the Nephites, and had seduced the more part of the righteous until they had come down to believe in their works and partake of their spoils, and to join with them in their secret murders and combinations.

39 And thus they did obtain the sole management of the government, insomuch that they did trample under their feet and smite and rend and turn their backs upon the poor and the meek, and the humble followers of God.

 

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On 8/11/2008 at 3:45 PM, bytor2112 said:

I think that the Evangelicals believe that the Anti-Christ will be one man and they take this passage pretty literally as far as the mark, 666, etc. Any thoughts on what the LDS believe in regard to this passage or perhaps some enlightenment from non-LDS?

 

Revelation Ch. 13

11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Near death experiencer Dannion Brinkley was shown something interesting about this during one of his brushes with death, (I think it was his one in 1975 but I am not sure).

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Dannion Brinkley:
BOX 12: Technology & Virus

The 11th box was gone & I was into the 12th box. Its visions addressed an important event in the distant future, the decade of the 90's (remember, this was 1975), when many of the great changes would take place. In this box, I watched as a biological engineer from the Middle East found a way to alter DNA & create a biological virus that would be used in the manufacture of computer chips. This discovery allowed for huge strides in science & technology. Japan, China, & other countries of the Pacific Rim experienced boom times as a result of this discovery & became powers of incredible magnitude. Computer chips produced from this process found their way into virtually every form of technology, from cars & airplanes to vacuum cleaners & blenders.

Before the turn of the century, this man was among the richest in the world, so rich that he had a stranglehold on the world economy. Still the world welcomed him, since the computer chips he had designed somehow put the world on an even keel. Gradually, he succumbed to his own power. He began to think of himself as a deity & insisted on greater control of the world. With that extra control, he began to rule the world.

His method of rule was unique. Everyone in the world was mandated by law to have one of his computer chips inserted underneath his or her skin. This chip contained all of an individual's personal information. If a government agency wanted to know something, all it had to do was scan your chip with a special device. By doing so, it could discover everything about you, from where you worked & lived to your medical records & even what kind of illnesses you might get in the future.

There was an even more sinister side to this chip. A person's lifetime could be limited by programming this chip to dissolve & kill him with the viral substance it was made from. Lifetimes were controlled like this to avoid the cost that growing old places on the government. It was also used as a means of eliminating people with chronic illnesses that put a drain on the medical system. People who refused to have chips implanted in their bodies roamed as outcasts. They could not be employed & were denied government services." (Dannion Brinkley, Saved By The Light, chapter 5)

 

This reminded me of a statement in the rather ancient Book of Jasher chapter four.

 

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18 And their judges and rulers went to the daughters of men and took their wives by force from their husbands according to their choice, and the sons of men in those days took from the cattle of the earth, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the air, and taught the mixture of animals of one species with the other, in order therewith to provoke the Lord; and God saw the whole earth and it was corrupt, for all flesh had corrupted its ways upon earth, all men and all animals.

https://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/apo/jasher/4.htm

Edited by DennisTate
grammar

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This thread is quite the trip down memory lane. I know at least one poster in here ended up getting banned (not due to this thread specifically, to be clear).

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6 hours ago, Colirio said:


And to think you could have learned all this 12 years ago! 

I just now noticed that this is a zombie thread........  a really good one by the way.......  I heard a video on the 5-G theory a few days ago that was quite well done I have to admit.........  So well done that I didn't even get up the nerve to comment on it yet??!!

I should probably attempt to find the video because the speaker turned his ideas into a full fledged alternative "Mark of the Beast" theory?????

Would my adding that video be appropriate?

 

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On 4/8/2020 at 4:49 PM, prisonchaplain said:

I just now realized that I replied to 12-year old posts. Oh well...hope it benefits... :deadthread: NO LONGER...:-)

I honestly think that you were inspired to do this........ it was time...... it was just time.......... as a matter of fact..... you will get an idea of what I mean by this if you wade through this discussion that could also be tied into this topic:

 

Am I wrong to be thinking that whoever STOPS the Jewish scholars and Levites from offering sacrifices after they do so for around forty two months..... would be the anti-Christ guy?????

Would therefore anybody who causes the Jewish scholars to stop offering sacrifices be a major contender to come up with some variation of "Mark of the Beast?"

The plot thickens because I was taught a very different but none the less interesting variation on the "Mark of the Beast" by Mr. Herbert W. Armstrong and his son Evangelist Garner Ted Armstrong since the early 1970's!

What I was taught......... to whatever degree it was true or false is one topic but......  the concept has what could be termed "Artistic Value" for our time period right now????

Edited by DennisTate
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9 hours ago, Colirio said:


And to think you could have learned all this 12 years ago! 

I'll ruin the joke by explaining it. This thread has gone meta. It started out discussing the mark of the beast, was wounded by time and disinterest, and has now come fully back to life. It is typologically the very thing it was discussing.

 

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And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

 

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3 hours ago, DennisTate said:

I honestly think that you were inspired to do this........ it was time...... it was just time.......... as a matter of fact..... you will get an idea of what I mean by this if you wade through this discussion that could also be tied into this topic:

 

Am I wrong to be thinking that whoever STOPS the Jewish scholars and Levites from offering sacrifices after they do so for around forty two months..... would be the anti-Christ guy?????

Would therefore anybody who causes the Jewish scholars to stop offering sacrifices be a major contender to come up with some variation of "Mark of the Beast?"

The plot thickens because I was taught a very different but none the less interesting variation on the "Mark of the Beast" by Mr. Herbert W. Armstrong and his son Evangelist Garner Ted Armstrong since the early 1970's!

What I was taught......... to whatever degree it was true or false is one topic but......  the concept has what could be termed "Artistic Value" for our time period right now????

I thought to respond directly to this post.  A couple of years ago I traveled to Jerusalem and met with a group of Jewish Rabbis.  One of the things I discussed with them was the rebuilding of the temple.  I will not go into details of all we discussed except to make reference to a "Red Heifer" sacrifice of purification that according to ancient Jewish tradition is necessary for purification for any priests (and others)  involved in working or overseeing the work consistent with the temple - including rebuilding or restoration the temple.  The problem is that the authority to perform such ritual - specifically the Red Heifer sacrifice must be passed down directly from one high priest to his successor.  In short that authority has been lost, not just in Judaism  but through all the tribes of Israel - and thus cannot rightfully be performed without a specific restoration to a direct son of Aaron (Levites).

Thus it is quite possible that a sign of the Beast; sitting in the temple of G-d showing himself to be G-d (or the authority of G-d) are Messianic Jews along with Christians and others; thinking they have the authority (right or calling) to build and restore the temple and the ancient temple rites of sacrifice.  There is one more thing I could say here but I feel that you are not ready - so rather I would press that you commit to study the Doctrine and Covenants concerning authority to act for G-d.

 

The Traveler

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26 minutes ago, Traveler said:

I thought to respond directly to this post.  A couple of years ago I traveled to Jerusalem and met with a group of Jewish Rabbis.  One of the things I discussed with them was the rebuilding of the temple.  I will not go into details of all we discussed except to make reference to a "Red Heifer" sacrifice of purification that according to ancient Jewish tradition is necessary for purification for any priests (and others)  involved in working or overseeing the work consistent with the temple - including rebuilding or restoration the temple.  The problem is that the authority to perform such ritual - specifically the Red Heifer sacrifice must be passed down directly from one high priest to his successor.  In short that authority has been lost, not just in Judaism  but through all the tribes of Israel - and thus cannot rightfully be performed without a specific restoration to a direct son of Aaron (Levites).

Thus it is quite possible that a sign of the Beast; sitting in the temple of G-d showing himself to be G-d (or the authority of G-d) are Messianic Jews along with Christians and others; thinking they have the authority (right or calling) to build and restore the temple and the ancient temple rites of sacrifice.  There is one more thing I could say here but I feel that you are not ready - so rather I would press that you commit to study the Doctrine and Covenants concerning authority to act for G-d.

 

The Traveler

Wow!!!!!

Would you be willing to post that message over to that other discussion where Orthodox Jews who have Latter day Saint friends may be more likely to read what  you just wrote.

For the record..... I claim to know nothing.... .about anything..... .but......  if the Jerusalem Sanhedrin that hired Rabbi Yeshayahu Hollander who I began to correspond with back in 2010 decided that they were willing to construct whatever was needed near the Gihon Spring to do rituals....... then I personally would take the risk of backing them up even to the point where my life would be at risk.

This will give you an idea of why I think the Gihon Spring area is important.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernest_L._Martin

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In his 1999 book The Temples that Jerusalem Forgot, Martin argued that the Haram al-Sharif is not the location of the last Temple. This was significant given his relationship with Herbert W. Armstrong whose editorial in The Plain Truth magazine was cited by Denis Michael Rohan as a reason for setting fire to the Al Aqsa mosque during the 1960s.

The basis of this work began with Martin's first visit to Jerusalem in 1961 when he first met Benjamin Mazar and later his son Ory Mazar, who informed him of his belief that the Temples of Solomon and Zerubbabel were located on the Ophel mound to the north of the original Mount Zion on the southeast ridge. In a 1996 draft report to support this theory, Martin wrote, "I was then under the impression that Simon the Hasmonean (along with Herod a century later) moved the Temple from the Ophel mound to the Dome of the Rock area." However, after studying the words of Josephus concerning the Temple of Herod the Great, which was reported to be in the same general area of the former Temples, he then read the account of Eleazar who led the final contingent of Jewish resistance to the Romans at Masada which stated that the Roman fortress was the only structure left by 73 C.E.. "With this key in mind, I came to the conclusion in 1997 that all the Temples were indeed located on the Ophel mound over the area of the Gihon Spring."[4] From these conclusions, Martin produced his book in which he asserted that the Temples of Jerusalem were located over the Gihon Spring and not over the Dome of the Rock. He wrote, "What has been amazing to me is the vast amount of Jewish, Muslim, and Christian records that remain available from the first to the sixteenth centuries that clearly vindicate the conclusions that I have reached in this book of research."

 

 

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10 hours ago, Godless said:

This thread is quite the trip down memory lane. I know at least one poster in here ended up getting banned (not due to this thread specifically, to be clear).

I recently got banned off ChristianForums   .com but they really did do me a favour.  My all time record for getting disfellowshipped out of Christian churches is two.... in not much more than a one month period of time back in 1991.  (The Worldwide Church of God and an offshoot, The Philadelphia Church of God).  For the record I suggested to the WWCG local pastor that he should probably just disfellowship me because now that I had had the time to research the "Soul Sleep" doctrine I could no longer simply go along with the WWCG as supposedly being the most well informed group of Christians on earth.

I have never really found a church home after 1991... but I do enjoying going to church with my Pentecostal wife wherever she wishes to go.... (and I snuck away to the nearest LDS ward four times back in 2019 after hearing Mr. Mark Taylor state that the 2012 election may have been stolen from a certain somebody)!

Over on that forum I got warning after warning each time that I stuck up for the Latter day Saint posters there.

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1 hour ago, DennisTate said:

Wow!!!!!

Would you be willing to post that message over to that other discussion where Orthodox Jews who have Latter day Saint friends may be more likely to read what  you just wrote.

For the record..... I claim to know nothing.... .about anything..... .but......  if the Jerusalem Sanhedrin that hired Rabbi Yeshayahu Hollander who I began to correspond with back in 2010 decided that they were willing to construct whatever was needed near the Gihon Spring to do rituals....... then I personally would take the risk of backing them up even to the point where my life would be at risk.

This will give you an idea of why I think the Gihon Spring area is important.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernest_L._Martin

 

The Restoration of the Fulness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ: A Bicentennial Proclamation to the world -  April 2020.

 

 

Edited by Benskie

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2 hours ago, DennisTate said:

I recently got banned off ChristianForums   .com but they really did do me a favour.  My all time record for getting disfellowshipped out of Christian churches is two.... in not much more than a one month period of time back in 1991.  (The Worldwide Church of God and an offshoot, The Philadelphia Church of God).  For the record I suggested to the WWCG local pastor that he should probably just disfellowship me because now that I had had the time to research the "Soul Sleep" doctrine I could no longer simply go along with the WWCG as supposedly being the most well informed group of Christians on earth.

I have never really found a church home after 1991... but I do enjoying going to church with my Pentecostal wife wherever she wishes to go.... (and I snuck away to the nearest LDS ward four times back in 2019 after hearing Mr. Mark Taylor state that the 2012 election may have been stolen from a certain somebody)!

Over on that forum I got warning after warning each time that I stuck up for the Latter day Saint posters there.

Man, I haven't been on that site in years. I remember there was a bit of an exodus of LDS posters from there to here when they started trying to push out non-Trinitarians.

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23 minutes ago, Godless said:

Man, I haven't been on that site in years. I remember there was a bit of an exodus of LDS posters from there to here when they started trying to push out non-Trinitarians.

Yes......  Latter day Saints pretty much have to term themselves something like a "Christian Seeker" or something like that on there or....... they will be limited to very few forums.

Agnostics and Atheists are treated much better over there than Latter day Saints are.  

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2 hours ago, Benskie said:

The Restoration of the Fulness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ: A Bicentennial Proclamation to the world -  April 2020.

 

 

I am now listening to this video for the second time because my first listen leaves me with an impression that I felt would fit here:

 

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Perhaps we have cause to question Revelations 13:18. Undeniable photographic evidence clearly shows that the mark of the beast is LC. Or maybe it's 27. Or maybe even WAD 

 

image.jpeg.ae02e32dec6bcee8d6bb606e7355d0f4.jpeg

 

Or it could be something even more random:

image.jpeg.6f0142bb0cae8451a6e967476489ab17.jpeg

But nowhere cani see 666

So now I'm pondering the theological implications of these imporant discoveries. First impressions are that its a load of bull.

 

 

Edited by askandanswer

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On 4/10/2020 at 1:50 PM, DennisTate said:

I am now listening to this video for the second time because my first listen leaves me with an impression that I felt would fit here:

 

Here is a thought and speculation concerning the temple at Jerusalem.  After the Flood of Noah a great Patriarch by the name of Melchizedek  established a city under the divine covenant of Peace called Salem.  Because of the righteousness of the city's inhabitants -  it was taken up into heaven.  With Salem gone a new city was built and named after Salem.  It is not unusual anciently for a new city to be built where an older city structure one was.  One of the variant meanings of Jerusalem is Salem upon two mountains.  

Perhaps a temple temple after the structure of Solomon's Temple in Jerusalem will not ever be rebuilt or restored in the last days.  Perhaps the temple prophesied by Ezekiel is the temple of Salem that was taken up but to be restored at the time or restoration of all things.

 

The Traveler

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4 hours ago, Traveler said:

Here is a thought and speculation concerning the temple at Jerusalem.  After the Flood of Noah a great Patriarch by the name of Melchizedek  established a city under the divine covenant of Peace called Salem.  Because of the righteousness of the city's inhabitants -  it was taken up into heaven.  With Salem gone a new city was built and named after Salem.  It is not unusual anciently for a new city to be built where an older city structure one was.  One of the variant meanings of Jerusalem is Salem upon two mountains.  

Perhaps a temple temple after the structure of Solomon's Temple in Jerusalem will not ever be rebuilt or restored in the last days.  Perhaps the temple prophesied by Ezekiel is the temple of Salem that was taken up but to be restored at the time or restoration of all things.

 

The Traveler

Fascinating!!!!

And something really wild is that orphans in China around 1919 were somehow shown details on something along the line of this?!

Near death experiencer Dr. George Ritchie in 1943 was also given some intriguing hints about all of this???

https://www.near-death.com/experiences/exceptional/george-ritchie.html#a05f

 

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f. His Vision of the Heavenly City
 

Ritchie is then taken into outer space toward a distant city made of brilliant light - similar in description to the heavenly city in the Book of Revelation (see also Revelation 21:10-27.) This is the place where people go who have become like Jesus while on Earth - a place where love is the dominant focus of life. This is heaven he realizes; but he is not allowed to enter it. Instead, Jesus shows him the future of Earth and is told to return to his physical body. At this point, Ritchie is revived from death.

 

 

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My take: Hebrew uses the same characters and sounds for numbers as well as letters. Therefore, someone's name can be a number as well as a word.

I can't confirm, but I heard from a friend that Nero in Hebrew was 666. Therefore, the mark of the beast is the mark of Nero. What might the mark of Nero be?

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17 hours ago, Moonbeast32 said:

My take: Hebrew uses the same characters and sounds for numbers as well as letters. Therefore, someone's name can be a number as well as a word.

I can't confirm, but I heard from a friend that Nero in Hebrew was 666. Therefore, the mark of the beast is the mark of Nero. What might the mark of Nero be?

Some sects believe that Nero was the antichrist and that 666 was a veiled code for Nero, but I believe that ours does not share that belief.

Everything I have seen from our Church indicates that the antichrist in the Book of Revelation hasn't come yet, but will in the future.

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On 8/11/2008 at 11:45 AM, bytor2112 said:

for it is the number of a man

I believe this is the key to understanding who or what this Anti-Christ is. Whatever it is, it's man-made.

I also believe it is present, has been present and will be present until Christ establishes his kingdom on the earth.

IMO, the first beast was sitting in the temple at its destruction in 70 AD. The second beast that exercised all the power of the first beast is a reference to political power. It was the same political power that established the Nicene Creed or constitution.

I gather, from the scriptures, that the loss of the temple is the desolation. Daniel lamented about the loss of the temple for 70 years and it was explained that there would be a great loss of the temple in the not too distant future. Temples were then restored on the earth again, and we lost the temple for many years after the Nauvoo Temple was destroyed, so we also had experienced a desolation, not unlike Daniel's, but nothing like the loss of the temple in Jerusalem. I believe it is always an anti-Christ that destroys the temples.

As for the would that was healed that cause all the people to marvel, that, I believe, was an effigy of the real thing.

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On 4/8/2020 at 5:25 PM, TheTanakas said:

How do you interpret Revelation 19:19-20?

I interpret it in the following way.

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19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

I'm grateful that I could help you understand it better.

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On 4/10/2020 at 5:27 PM, askandanswer said:

But nowhere cani see 666

Well, we need to understand that math is that gateway to underlying truth.  So, we take the 666 and add the digits together = 18.  Add those digits together = 9,

A cat has 9 lives.  And the Beatles wrote the song Revolution 9.

Cats and Beetles will be the true plague rather than locusts that will be a sign of the end times.  It's as clear as "Louisiana high ground" that the scriptures warn us that Cats are agents of evil. 

Tah-dah!!

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3 hours ago, Carborendum said:

Well, we need to understand that math is that gateway to underlying truth.  So, we take the 666 and add the digits together = 18.  Add those digits together = 9,

A cat has 9 lives.  And the Beatles wrote the song Revolution 9.

Worth noting here that the best song on the album Hybrid Theory, which is full of outstanding songs, is Figure.09. This song comes as a revelation:

'Cause from the infinite words, I could say
I put all the pain you gave to me on display
But didn't realize, instead of setting it free
I took what I hated and made it a part of me

And you've become a part of me, you'll always be right here
You've become a part of me, you'll always be my fear
I can't separate myself from what I've done
In giving up a part of me, I've let myself become you.

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Some LDS thought on Revelation 13:16–17. The Mark of the Beast

“In contrast to the righteous, who keep their covenants with God and receive His protecting seal on their foreheads (see Revelation 7:2–3; 14:1; 22:4; the commentary for Revelation 7:3; 9:4), the wicked who worship the beast “receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads” (Revelation 13:16). This may symbolize that the wicked show by their actions (hands) and beliefs (heads) that they do the will of the beast and accept his ideology. However, the precise meaning of “the mark” has not been revealed.“

From the LDS New Testament Manual

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