Hi! I'm Kevin. I'm an Apostate.


EarthyAngel
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I live in Northern California. I grew up in the church, had 4 years of seminary, attended Ricks College, served as a missionary in Europe, got sealed in the temple. Got divorced. No kids. Enjoying that now. (Eternal Family isn't for everyone).

But, I'm an apostate. Now, I'm sure that alone will cause some to hate me right off the bat.

Rest assured. I have a great deal of respect and love for my heritage. I have no doubt that it was part of the grand plan of my life that I had such an intimate relationship with the Church through out the first three decades of my life.

Oh, I have my complaints and criticisms, which will no doubt be taken by some as an attack on the Church or their testimony should I express them, but by-and-large, I think I am pretty fair. I used to hate anti-mormons because they seemed to take delight in lobbing figurative grenades at the Church and its members. I found them very upsetting, not because of what they said, but because of the cruelty which they exhibited.

I certainly don't want to be accused of being one of THEM.

I am now a pagan, mystic, shaman, buddhist, wiccan, gnostic, unitarian-universalist. Yeah, it's a mouthful... but I've been studying spirituality and religion now for 20 years, looking for the common threads throughout time and space in what human beings experience as God, and I haven't found a single religion that is all-encompassing.

So anyway. Here I am.

I'm curious to see how I'll be received.

Kevin

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Kevin:

Welcome to the forums.

11 We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

I hope you enjoy the time you spend here.

Tom

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You should be fine. Once you even remotely "attack" (and I use that word loosly) then the bombs might come out. usually as long as people play by the rules, they should be fine.

Have you read much of Hugh Nibley's books. I don't think I have even read one completly through. But he does have a couple of interesting books. Two I would recomend looking into.

The Worlds and the Prophets

Also, Enoch the Prophet. I actually have this book, but have only only read parts here and there. I probably should actually sit down and read it.

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Hi Kevin,

I'm pretty new here too, and I don't know a lot of the members here yet. I'm glad to meet you, and I hope that you find what you are looking for here. Do you know what you are looking for?

I appreciate your respect and willingness to give us a chance (you said you are curious to see how you will be received here). I do sense a lot of anger in your post, and I wonder what it is that you are angry about. Everybody has more to their story than we will be able to see here. You don't have to answer that, of course, but I just wonder what has you feeling the way you do, and what brings you here. I'm just thinking out loud. And I am sorry for all the hurt that you must have felt sometime and somewhere. I guess that any of us could potentially find ourselves in the same place. If I'm misreading something, I'm sorry for that too.

I have always said that I believe there is truth to be found in all religions. I respect those who believe differently than I do, and I am interested in learning about what you have found. I might not agree with all of it, but that's okay. You don't have to agree with my beliefs either. I am particularly interested in your post because I had a friend who left the church, and she got so mad at me each time that our conversations turned to religion, because I could always find a way to fit her new beliefs alongside mine and for me it all made sense and any areas of conflict there didn't seem to me to be unsurmountable. She told me essentially that she felt I was bad for not giving up my beliefs. She doesn't talk to me anymore. I am still trying to make sense of it, as I never intended to be or thought that I was ever anything but accepting of her. You may not even have much in common with her, other than leaving the church, so maybe my perception of you is colored by my experience with my friend.

Anyway, welcome. I hope that I get the chance to learn more from you and about you.

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You should be fine. Once you even remotely "attack" (and I use that word loosly) then the bombs might come out. usually as long as people play by the rules, they should be fine.

Have you read much of Hugh Nibley's books. I don't think I have even read one completly through. But he does have a couple of interesting books. Two I would recomend looking into.

The Worlds and the Prophets

Also, Enoch the Prophet. I actually have this book, but have only only read parts here and there. I probably should actually sit down and read it.

I devoured Nibley's writings in my younger days.

It is just a bit too apologetic (meaning biased in favor of what he wishes to see) for my taste, now.

Yeah, I understand how you use "attack" loosely. Many see the "to question" the same as "to attack". Or even "to disagree" as "to attack".

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Hate you??? What reason would we have??? Well....I guess maybe if you liked Bananarama....then that might be a reason! :)

Welcome to the site. Hope you enjoy it here.

Kevin likes Bananarama? I don't hate you for that, Kev, I pity you. Don't tell us you like Oingo Boingo and The Bangles too????

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I like people like you. Keeps me on my toes and makes me think! I think most people here are accepting of others no matter what religion or beliefs and what not. Although I am definitely sure some will lose their dang minds the second you say something as simple as " so...how about that Joseph Smith?" ;) haha. Welcome to the site!

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So what is a a pagan, mystic, shaman, buddhist, wiccan, gnostic, unitarian-universalist? I've studied religions a lot too and I'm still just as confused about them all as I ever was. I am an agnostic drawn to look at the LDS church and your journey took you away from it. What was the cause? Don't answer that if you don't want to. I come here because I like Mormons and decided to learn more about them.

This is a good site. 75.67 % of the people are really nice.

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earhtyangel...cool name.....good to meet you.....i have studied many religions and phylosophies.....from a very early age....starting with the death of my father at age 5....i started asking...whats it all mean?;...why are we born to die?.....is there something after this?....hard questions for a 5yr old....but there i was....and had NO help from family or church.....always resented church members (not necessarily lds members...but not excluding them either) thaat would simply pat a child on the head and smile...as if the child were SO stupid....when, in fact, the adult was a spiritual moron.....at least, at that time...i moved away from christian churches....and yet....felt jesus in me....like my best friend....so i became scientific....knowing that there is more to church than simply attending.....how or why i knew this...i didnt know...at the time....through my youth...and at 19...i read a book....about eastern phylosophy....and it was like..yea...thats right!!.....and all the while i still felt jesus inside me...like my best friend.....long story short....i lived in a jain ashram (jainism is from india....its greatest tenant is non-violance to ALL living creatures)...where i learned to pray....not the just close your eyes and and talk praying.....but the...be still, and know that i an GOD praying...what a revalation....and blessing....and inside....i felt jesus was my best friend...so i studied...yoga...meditation...and jesus was there with me...inside....like a friend you know is with you...even though you are seperated....and felt....man, the church (christian) has gone so far astray....there are real techniques to focus on GOD with...and they dont seem to have a clue.....i lived in the ashram ( a monestary...if you will) for 10 years.....and for some inexplicable reason...felt it was time to go..cant explain it....but couldnt deny it....and shortly thereafter....through circumstance....was introduced to lds missionaries.....took the lessons...all the while thinking...ok..another christian church....they probably dont have a clue either...and by this time,,i was in my 40s...and the missionaries were ..what...19?...20?....what do they know about anything....but...iread the testamony in the front of the book of mormon....and was filled with such a sence of joy....i believed it to be true....but cmon...josph smith?...so much was still strange to me.....but....the lds (i prefer that tto mormon) approach to SPIRITUAL PRACTICE was so like what i had studied, and felt to be true...i could not deny it....do i accept everything verbatum?....no ...i still struggle with some church policies....and church people.....and practice the prayer/meditation techniques i learned and hold to be true spiritual practice....and try to give others their own time and space to grow....as i understand growth...keeping in mind....non-violence....physical..mental....spiritual....as best i can....and still follow the truth i feel in my heart....and soul........to say that there is a political aspect to the church is an understatement in my opinion....i have always felt....and did learn...that true spirit is between you and GOD....period....although profets/teachers are here to help guide us....it still comes down to .....you GOD, and me......so...here are my thoughts....i dont know if you are apostate or not....but i have a sense that you seek more truth (reality) than you've been taught.....ok...search....find your path .....but dont feel you are cut off from jesus because the church says you are....or do you feel removed from him yourself?.....yea...been there too....andf he is still here with me....lol......bottom line......find your own path.....whatever it is....i pray.....and i feel...that it will bring you home.......and yes....lol....sometimes i'm still affraid.....blessings

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So what is a a pagan, mystic, shaman, buddhist, wiccan, gnostic, unitarian-universalist? I've studied religions a lot too and I'm still just as confused about them all as I ever was. I am an agnostic drawn to look at the LDS church and your journey took you away from it. What was the cause? Don't answer that if you don't want to. I come here because I like Mormons and decided to learn more about them.

This is a good site. 75.67 % of the people are really nice.

plus or minus 6.39%

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Guest ceeboo

But, I'm an apostate. Now, I'm sure that alone will cause some to hate me right off the bat.

So anyway. Here I am.

I'm curious to see how I'll be received.

Kevin

Hello Kevin,

I am confident ( because I have recently joined this site as well ) that your time here will be a very rewarding one.

IMHO, we are all on our own journey and it has been my experience on this forum that if we ( I included) can get past our own personal bias or history then there is a tremendous amount of knowledge and perspective for all to gain. For me, it has been a true blessing to be able to draw from such a diverse group of people available on this forum.

I would add that it has also been a very humbling experience.

I certainly do not hate, rather I look forward to the contributions you might offer.:)

Welcome and God bless,

Carl

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dazed, thanks for sharing your story. It was hard to get through without the use of any standard punctuation, but I was strong.

it still comes down to .....you GOD, and me......so...here are my thoughts....i dont know if you are apostate or not....but i have a sense that you seek more truth (reality) than you've been taught.....ok...search....find your path .....but dont feel you are cut off from jesus because the church says you are....or do you feel removed from him yourself?.....yea...been there too....andf he is still here with me....lol......bottom line......find your own path.....whatever it is....i pray.....and i feel...that it will bring you home.......and yes....lol....sometimes i'm still affraid.....blessings

I say much the same thing: No one stands between us and the Divine. That's the message of just about every great spiritual visionary throughout time. But then religions come along and say "You're not good enough to approach God directly. So here... we'll do it for you, but here's a checklist of things you must do, and here's a bill for our services."

I never said I was cut off from Jesus. In fact, I am filled with "Christ consciousness" more now than ever before in my life. I am an apostate from what the LDS faithful will enthusiastically call "The only true and living church" in the world.

FWIW, I am home. Thanks for sharing your concern.

Kevin

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You got me here and only now are you introducing yourself?:o

Well, good for you.

I don't think I count as an apostate, but I don't know the counting rules. I was born a member, am still a member (the ward teachers come every month), but never really believed any of it. Oddly enough, no one thought to ask me if I believed until I was about 20.

Naturally,

R.O.

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