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EarthyAngel

Hi! I'm Kevin. I'm an Apostate.

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Kevin,

I'm just curious... what line of work are you in?

The reason I ask is that you remind me of some people on a very good discussion board for my industry. (And yes, I consider them good people who do a lot of good for the work that they do.)

Spiritual line of work.

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I live in Northern California. I grew up in the church, ... ....

But, I'm an apostate. .........

I am now a pagan, mystic, shaman, buddhist, wiccan, gnostic, unitarian-universalist. Yeah, it's a mouthful... but I've been studying spirituality and religion now for 20 years, looking for the common threads throughout time and space in what human beings experience as God, and I haven't found a single religion that is all-encompassing.

So anyway. Here I am.

I'm curious to see how I'll be received.

Kevin

Hi Kevin...

Just thought I'd drop a line....(or a few) I don't happen to know you, right???? hahahaha

You sound just like someone I really know; that description fits him perfectly! ;)

I used to joke around with him saying that he had a major spiritual identity crisis... ^_^

Anyways... You seem to be an interesting person with a great sense of humor! I liked the way you "prepared" the territory; it reminded me of another person I know who calls himself an atheist and is known for "preparing" people... with his acute intellect and perceptions; he's a very nice person and very knowledgeable as well! I've had many interesting conversations with them... about their philosophies, ideas, and perceptions...

Anyways... be well and take care! Hope you enjoy! ;)

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Hello Kevin,

WELCOME to LDS.NET, I hope you enjoy it here.:D

I can't remember when I read such a long thread from start to finish.... Oh and the things I learned.;)

Glad to have you here.:)

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I am now a pagan, mystic, shaman, buddhist, wiccan, gnostic, unitarian-universalist. Yeah, it's a mouthful... but I've been studying spirituality and religion now for 20 years, looking for the common threads throughout time and space in what human beings experience as God, and I haven't found a single religion that is all-encompassing.

Welcome, Kevin. What an interesting intro and comments. I was born in the Church too, and am currently a definite heretic but not an apostate (except a few days ago when I declared I didn't believe in a literal global flood here on this site -- I've been trying to repent but now that I've brought it up again... :blush:).

I too love to study other religions/world traditions. I think the only one I couldn't really adapt to was Thelema. And even that has some truths. When I compare that Tarot deck to the Waite-Rider it provokes some interesting thought. And some of the shamanistic energies/entities seem toxic to me.

Anyway, I've been an active LDS all my life and am currently serving as both a general Church service missionary and a Ward missionary. And a Stake auditor (done! whew!). And a father of 9.

Mormon Mystic for a long while, Heretic, science fan and total nerd,

HiJolly

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Hi Kevin...

Just thought I'd drop a line....(or a few) I don't happen to know you, right???? hahahaha

You sound just like someone I really know; that description fits him perfectly! ;)

I used to joke around with him saying that he had a major spiritual identity crisis... ^_^

Anyways... You seem to be an interesting person with a great sense of humor! I liked the way you "prepared" the territory; it reminded me of another person I know who calls himself an atheist and is known for "preparing" people... with his acute intellect and perceptions; he's a very nice person and very knowledgeable as well! I've had many interesting conversations with them... about their philosophies, ideas, and perceptions...

Anyways... be well and take care! Hope you enjoy! ;)

Thanks for the welcome!

I must have a spiritual twin out there... though I'm WAY too much of a mystic to ever really give atheism a try.

Kevin

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Hello Kevin,

WELCOME to LDS.NET, I hope you enjoy it here.:D

I can't remember when I read such a long thread from start to finish.... Oh and the things I learned.;)

Glad to have you here.:)

So glad I was able to provide some fertile ground for your growth and learning!

That's actually a very important part of my personal mission in life.

Thanks for the welcome!

Kevin

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Welcome, Kevin. What an interesting intro and comments. I was born in the Church too, and am currently a definite heretic but not an apostate (except a few days ago when I declared I didn't believe in a literal global flood here on this site -- I've been trying to repent but now that I've brought it up again... :blush:).

I too love to study other religions/world traditions. I think the only one I couldn't really adapt to was Thelema. And even that has some truths. When I compare that Tarot deck to the Waite-Rider it provokes some interesting thought. And some of the shamanistic energies/entities seem toxic to me.

Anyway, I've been an active LDS all my life and am currently serving as both a general Church service missionary and a Ward missionary. And a Stake auditor (done! whew!). And a father of 9.

Mormon Mystic for a long while, Heretic, science fan and total nerd,

HiJolly

Thelema and the Golden Dawn are based mostly on Hermeticism, Alchemy, and the Keys of Solomon. In many esoteric traditions, Solomon was considered to be a great magician. Solomonaic magick is a major order of "high magick".

The Rider-Waite Tarot is strongly based on the Kabballah, which Joseph Smith studied, by the way. I read the Tarot. I'm told I'm pretty good. I also like the Tarot because it has strong links to Jungian Transpersonal Psychology.

Shamanism is healing work, first and foremost. It is a toolbox of many different tools from many different cultures. Every primitive culture has its shamen. We discount their wisdom at our peril.

Thanks for the welcome!

Kevin

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Thelema and the Golden Dawn are based mostly on Hermeticism, Alchemy, and the Keys of Solomon. In many esoteric traditions, Solomon was considered to be a great magician. Solomonaic magick is a major order of "high magick".

Yes, but I don't do 'practical' magick. I do enjoy learning about Hermeticsm and Alchemy, though. Have you read Jean Dubuis? He's the 'real deal', IMO.

The Rider-Waite Tarot is strongly based on the Kabballah, which Joseph Smith studied, by the way. I read the Tarot. I'm told I'm pretty good. I also like the Tarot because it has strong links to Jungian Transpersonal Psychology.

Jung inspires me. Only the shadow knows how much.:o I don't use Tarot for anything but meditation. Definitely not into practical Kabbalah, though I'm not denying its potential. I'm concentrating on Temperance in particular, but I'm finding it difficult to keep focused. The subconscious/ conscious tension is revealing a watcher at the gate that I am unprepared to deal with at the present, I think. Patience is a virtue.... :mellow:

HiJolly

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Yes, but I don't do 'practical' magick. I do enjoy learning about Hermeticsm and Alchemy, though. Have you read Jean Dubuis? He's the 'real deal', IMO.

I'm not familiar with his work. And, by the way, the best magick isn't "practical", meaning directed at manifesting into the material world that which you want or need for daily living. The best magick is that which transforms yourself. Repentance through the Grace of Christ is a form of this kind of transformational magick. Technically, it's from the school of magick called "Theurgy", which is magick by the power of Deity. The intent is our own, but the power is Divine. This is generally considered a "safe" form of magick, as it only works when in harmony with the will of the Divine entity one is calling upon. I know that LDS and other Christians prefer to refer to this as "miracles" rather than magick, but magick, by definition, is using one's intention and will (with faith) to change something in the manifest world. So miracles are a form of magick.

Jung inspires me. Only the shadow knows how much.:o I don't use Tarot for anything but meditation. Definitely not into practical Kabbalah, though I'm not denying its potential. I'm concentrating on Temperance in particular, but I'm finding it difficult to keep focused. The subconscious/ conscious tension is revealing a watcher at the gate that I am unprepared to deal with at the present, I think. Patience is a virtue.... :mellow:

HiJolly

LOL @ "the shadow knows" (thinking of the radio drama). Many would say that the very best use of the Tarot is for meditation. When I read the Tarot for others, it is as a tool to initiate a discussion of an inner aspect of their soul (Jungian translation: "an archetype of the collective unconscious) that is needing to be heard or spoken to. It's a means that is often useful to help people access their inner realities (including shadow selves).

Thanks for this discussion, by the way. I find it surprisingly refreshing. You DO know that many LDS won't even touch a deck of playing cards, because they are based on the "satanic" tarot?

Kevin

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Hi there Kevin, from your post I could just swear you were my younger brother. Much the same story, minus the Ricks part. He served his mission in France, got married in the Oakland temple, divorced 5 years later, no kids thankfully. But he is much like you, although he still seems to feel alot of pressure from the family to be active again, but he doesn't get it that we love him regardless. Sure we would LOVE for him to come back to church, but as you say, maybe that isn't in the 'plan' for him right now. However, I do believe that if we, my family (mom and I in particular) have enough faith, like Alma senior when his son was running about with his friends spreading lies about the church, I believe that he will come back. Equally so I hope you have not shut that out of your life permanently either. I know the life of an inactive, and being bitter, I served my mission in Seoul Korea, went to Ricks for a whole year, had every calling from Beehives to Laurels, so on and so forth, but the 'happy ending' of a marriage in the temple was not on the books for me. My loving husband is a strong (not devout!) Muslim from Egypt and I love him dearly. When we met, I was fixin' to head out and there he was to wine and dine me! 13 years later we are still together, and after 8 years or so, I am back to church. As I feel it is for my brother, I believe that this is a test for you and him. I believe everything happens for a reason. Many of the experiences I have had throughtout my life, while active and inactive, have come to serve a very important purpose sooner or later. I am currently the Laurel advisor in my ward and dearly love the girls I have had such a blessing to work with. I don't condemn you for what direction you are going, just hope that you have not shut the door for permanent. If you have, maybe you have a window open. What can I say, I am very much so an optimist! I really think you will find good people here, I know I have!

mrscurlymo

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Thanks for the welcome!

I must have a spiritual twin out there... though I'm WAY too much of a mystic to ever really give atheism a try.

Kevin

;) You're welcome!

Just for the record, I forgot to mention that none of the two persons I mentioned on my post grew up in the Church or are in Church. I was just teasing you... but seriously, your spiritual description there is quite close to one of them!!! Yes,... a spiritual twin... I'd say! ^_^ A good friend!

Have a wonderful day! :)

Edited by PapilioMemnon
Notification

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Thanks for this discussion, by the way. I find it surprisingly refreshing. You DO know that many LDS won't even touch a deck of playing cards, because they are based on the "satanic" tarot?

Kevin

Yes, indeed. Mormon Doctrine, 1st Ed. says so, and that was all it took for my parents to believe it. I was raised with no face cards allowed. I did mention I'm a heretic, I believe... :ninja:

HiJolly

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I used to carry a deck of cards with me everywhere I went :P

Classifying Christian repentence and miracles as a form of magic is a very interesting idea... but it may ruffle some feathers on a site like this. Some people want nothing to do with any form of magic other than their own, regardless of whether it is effective and uplifting or not. It gets labelled as being "of the devil" and/or accused of destroying lives, just because it is outside of Christianity. I'm sure you know that already. So be careful how you say things around here.

Well, fortunately, your message got to me unedited in my email, due to the way subscribing to threads instantly sends replies out. I appreciate the warning.

I just think it's a matter of semantics. Jesus was accused of performing miracles by the power of the devil. So whether you call it magick or miracles, it's not what you call it that matters, but the power behind it, don't you think?

Kevin

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kevin...i have read many statements here.....seems to me...you're not quite the outcast you were led to believe you are.....would like to know?......how do you feel about that?

:eek: Are you trying to make me feel better?

Kevin, proud of being "one", and not "one of ninety-nine".

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I know the life of an inactive, and being bitter

I've been meaning to get back to your post, mrscurlymo. There's much I want to respond to in it. I just want to say for now:

I'm not "inactive", and I'm not "bitter". I'm "done". That chapter of my life has been written and is closed.

I will not return to the LDS church. No good would come of it. I would be miserable. I'm full of joy and love and peace as I am right now.

The ONLY suffering I am experiencing in my life right now is in relation to my financial health (because I've chosen personal happiness and freedom over monetary security and materialism) and my physical fitness (because I'm still too lazy to get my fat backside out every day to exercise like I should).

Why would I ever want to go back?

Kevin

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Kevin, proud of being "one", and not "one of ninety-nine".

given what little i've come to know of you........ i think this is the most accurate description you've given of yourself thus far. :)

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